For US, A Delicate Task In Thai Upheaval

[iciparis]

Kasit knows where all the foreign ministries are based. I am sure the government will be only too happy to pay for him to visit the US to plead the case. They may take him a bit more seriously this time when he asks them to deal with Thaksin.

Problem is, largely, the government finds it extremely hard to make a case to the world concerning exactly why Thaksin has been found guilty in the first place, then beyond that, they find it extremely hard to understand how Kasit can even be in this job having rather stupidly joined the PAD protests.

I see a common problem here. Maybe Kasit is the problem when it comes to the government being able to explain to the world why they should arrest and extradite Thaksin. The government knows that there is every chance in the world that any extraditing country would turn around and deem the old charges politically motivated so they daren't try. I wonder if they will do any better with the "terrorism" charges. Oh of course, they appear not to want to pursue that one. I wonder why.

<snip>

The Australian government tried to extradite a rich Australian (Christopher Skase) from Spain a few years ago. He had been convicted of various fraud offences. They failed miserably.

Extradition isn't an easy process. Especially for something that is related to politics.

But now Thaksin is facing "terrorism charges" and most countries can not afford to not cooperaten on theso charges

[tharae]

Kasit knows where all the foreign ministries are based. I am sure the government will be only too happy to pay for him to visit the US to plead the case. They may take him a bit more seriously this time when he asks them to deal with Thaksin.

Problem is, largely, the government finds it extremely hard to make a case to the world concerning exactly why Thaksin has been found guilty in the first place, then beyond that, they find it extremely hard to understand how Kasit can even be in this job having rather stupidly joined the PAD protests.

I see a common problem here. Maybe Kasit is the problem when it comes to the government being able to explain to the world why they should arrest and extradite Thaksin. The government knows that there is every chance in the world that any extraditing country would turn around and deem the old charges politically motivated so they daren't try. I wonder if they will do any better with the "terrorism" charges. Oh of course, they appear not to want to pursue that one. I wonder why.

<snip>

The Australian government tried to extradite a rich Australian (Christopher Skase) from Spain a few years ago. He had been convicted of various fraud offences. They failed miserably.

Extradition isn't an easy process. Especially for something that is related to politics.

Particularly when you have to rather embarrassingly explain that the reason he is out and about at all is because he politely requested that he wanted to go to the Olympics and you let him travel. Oh, the tangled web we weave.

Not embarrassing when you can blame the previous government for it.

I think you will find it was the previous, previous government........which not only makes more sense, but even funnier

[mojo80]

The US has lost their creditibility, so who cares? With the USA bombing of Iraq (remember, it was because of Weapons of Mass Destruction, now according to Fox News it is because of the terrorists!) which has ruined the infrastructure and stability of Iraq (true, it was no picnic under Sadam but according to the Iraqi's their life style is worse off today); and with their negligence of their financial institutions (banks and wall street) taking advantage of "loop holes" in order to make profit, ...and with China being the growing economic machine in this region, I don't think the USA has as much influence any more. (Maybe the old Vietnam Vets reading this can set me straight)

PS-- The next time the US miltarty comea to Thailand to do their annual "War Games" with the Thai military, I hope they skip the out dated war games and teach the army how to deal with mobs of violent people, terrorists, and thugs in demonstrations. I think this would be more beneficial.

Spot on! Too many fingers in too many pies.

[Rama]

If the US wants credibility in Thailand, they should

1) have the military concentrate on war games rather that bar girl games when they come here

2) post diplomats who are diplomats. The next head of American Citizen Services at the embassy (Timothy B. Swanson) has publicly stated that he is to be head of ACS "in the country that, according to urban legend, leads the world in Viagra deaths."

If the US wants to be taken seriously in Thailand, they should stop treating Thailand as a joke.

[Thai at Heart]

Kasit knows where all the foreign ministries are based. I am sure the government will be only too happy to pay for him to visit the US to plead the case. They may take him a bit more seriously this time when he asks them to deal with Thaksin.

Problem is, largely, the government finds it extremely hard to make a case to the world concerning exactly why Thaksin has been found guilty in the first place, then beyond that, they find it extremely hard to understand how Kasit can even be in this job having rather stupidly joined the PAD protests.

I see a common problem here. Maybe Kasit is the problem when it comes to the government being able to explain to the world why they should arrest and extradite Thaksin. The government knows that there is every chance in the world that any extraditing country would turn around and deem the old charges politically motivated so they daren't try. I wonder if they will do any better with the "terrorism" charges. Oh of course, they appear not to want to pursue that one. I wonder why.

<snip>

The Australian government tried to extradite a rich Australian (Christopher Skase) from Spain a few years ago. He had been convicted of various fraud offences. They failed miserably.

Extradition isn't an easy process. Especially for something that is related to politics.

But now Thaksin is facing "terrorism charges" and most countries can not afford to not cooperaten on theso charges

When are people going to understand that as long as people overseas think that the judicial system here is open to political interference, the rest of the world will simply shrug it's shoulders and say "put your house in order and then come back and talk to us".

This doesn't mean that I absolve Thaksin of responsibility for what has happened, but that my opinion doesn't matter, and the mere fact that Thaksin was allowed to leave whilst on bail proves in itself that courts may be manipulated in this country. If they can make a really hard proveable case, maybe the courts here can get some response from overseas governments, but I doubt it.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/ter...pects-home.html

Can we really not send terrorist suspects home?

The ridiculous situation could mean that should for example they chase Thaksin in Europe on terrorism charges, he would probably have a great chance of claiming asylum, despite having been hoofed out of a couple of places in Europe already.

[Thai at Heart]

If the US wants credibility in Thailand, they should

1) have the military concentrate on war games rather that bar girl games when they come here

2) post diplomats who are diplomats. The next head of American Citizen Services at the embassy (Timothy B. Swanson) has publicly stated that he is to be head of ACS "in the country that, according to urban legend, leads the world in Viagra deaths."

If the US wants to be taken seriously in Thailand, they should stop treating Thailand as a joke.

I don't suppose that the US will lose too much sleep over your retort. Whilst the relationship between America and Thailand has it's ups and downs, without US support around here, I wonder how long it would be before someone decided to test the borders just to see if the Thai army is up to it.

If Thailand wants to start being taken seriously again in the world, it has a lot of house cleaning to do.

[Scott]

A large number of posts have been deleted and a number with quotes to those that were deleted.

Please stay on-topic and exercise care in posting.

[difos57]

The US has lost their creditibility, so who cares? With the USA bombing of Iraq (remember, it was because of Weapons of Mass Destruction, now according to Fox News it is because of the terrorists!) which has ruined the infrastructure and stability of Iraq (true, it was no picnic under Sadam but according to the Iraqi's their life style is worse off today); and with their negligence of their financial institutions (banks and wall street) taking advantage of "loop holes" in order to make profit, ...and with China being the growing economic machine in this region, I don't think the USA has as much influence any more. (Maybe the old Vietnam Vets reading this can set me straight)

PS-- The next time the US miltarty comea to Thailand to do their annual "War Games" with the Thai military, I hope they skip the out dated war games and teach the army how to deal with mobs of violent people, terrorists, and thugs in demonstrations. I think this would be more beneficial.

Spot on! Too many fingers in too many pies.

Maybe that explains what took them so long, they were trained by the US.

You have to remember that they were trying to apease human rights and all of the other ignorant do-gooders that wanted to stick their nose into Thailands affairs. I think they handled it well considering they were at the center of medias world stage.

[Sabre]

It is times that those foreign countries that still accommodate Thaksin Shinawatra to exams themselves whether to further sheltered this criminal that has financed and destroyed his owned country by creating social divisions and hatred among Thais.

Kasit knows where all the foreign ministries are based. I am sure the government will be only too happy to pay for him to visit the US to plead the case. They may take him a bit more seriously this time when he asks them to deal with Thaksin.

Problem is, largely, the government finds it extremely hard to make a case to the world concerning exactly why Thaksin has been found guilty in the first place, then beyond that, they find it extremely hard to understand how Kasit can even be in this job having rather stupidly joined the PAD protests.

I see a common problem here. Maybe Kasit is the problem when it comes to the government being able to explain to the world why they should arrest and extradite Thaksin. The government knows that there is every chance in the world that any extraditing country would turn around and deem the old charges politically motivated so they daren't try. I wonder if they will do any better with the "terrorism" charges. Oh of course, they appear not to want to pursue that one. I wonder why.

As for one man single handedly "creating" social divison. There are none so blind as those that will not see.

He didn't create it, it was always there. It is that no one bothered to think that removing it from society is a good thing. It is around us every minute of every day in this country. It is many others, but I find that Thailand is making a very good effort to hang onto it as opposed to actively trying to break it down and make society more inclusive for all.

Save for the 5 minutes a day where we stand for the national anthem, the other 1435 minutes where every single individual is trying to climb his way above the man next to him.

Or do I have to watch another soap opera where the maids are all dark, listen to conversations about "kaeks", watch stupid programs where hi-so go and try to plant rice and beg for mercy from the heat. These are but small examples but show how in your face these divisions are and yet no one thinks it odd that they are drummed into society endlessly.

Ah ... my thoughts exactly. I love Thailand and Thai people generally, but they have a dark side to them too.

[Bjorn]

The US has lost their creditibility, so who cares? With the USA bombing of Iraq (remember, it was because of Weapons of Mass Destruction, now according to Fox News it is because of the terrorists!) which has ruined the infrastructure and stability of Iraq (true, it was no picnic under Sadam but according to the Iraqi's their life style is worse off today); and with their negligence of their financial institutions (banks and wall street) taking advantage of "loop holes" in order to make profit, ...and with China being the growing economic machine in this region, I don't think the USA has as much influence any more. (Maybe the old Vietnam Vets reading this can set me straight)

PS-- The next time the US miltarty comea to Thailand to do their annual "War Games" with the Thai military, I hope they skip the out dated war games and teach the army how to deal with mobs of violent people, terrorists, and thugs in demonstrations. I think this would be more beneficial.

Good point there. Whereever USA get involved it ends up in a mess. So they better stay away from Thai politics. If they get invilved just slightly, they will mess things up again.

[teachertingtong]

"Joshua Kurlantzick, a Thailand expert at the Council on Foreign Relations, said a policy of interacting only with the elite could give rise to an anti-US firebrand among the Red Shirts akin to Venezuela's leader Hugo Chavez."

This guy is so full of ess-hech-eye-tee that it must be drooling from his ears.

The current US administration idolizes and adores tyrants like Chavez, and vice versa. In the warped context of the current US administration, Chavez is viewed as pro-US and vice versa. At the very least, Chavez is hardly an anti-US firebrand in Obama's eyes. Obama and his ilk are elitists. They want a subserviant proletariat that bows to the ruling elite of the central government. It would not be surprising at all to see US policy towards Thailand shift to try to create such a nightmare in Thailand. Let's hope they are all out on their arse before they have a chance.

Even someone full of ess-hech-eye-tee is capable of independent thought, however wrong it may be. It sre beats the hel_l out of never having a thought of your own. I am willing to bet your favorite TV channel is Fox News and your favorite person is Flush Limbaugh.

[Samuian]

It is times that those foreign countries that still accommodate Thaksin Shinawatra to exams themselves whether to further sheltered this criminal that has financed and destroyed his owned country by creating social divisions and hatred among Thais.

Kasit knows where all the foreign ministries are based. I am sure the government will be only too happy to pay for him to visit the US to plead the case. They may take him a bit more seriously this time when he asks them to deal with Thaksin.

Problem is, largely, the government finds it extremely hard to make a case to the world concerning exactly why Thaksin has been found guilty in the first place, then beyond that, they find it extremely hard to understand how Kasit can even be in this job having rather stupidly joined the PAD protests.

I see a common problem here. Maybe Kasit is the problem when it comes to the government being able to explain to the world why they should arrest and extradite Thaksin. The government knows that there is every chance in the world that any extraditing country would turn around and deem the old charges politically motivated so they daren't try. I wonder if they will do any better with the "terrorism" charges. Oh of course, they appear not to want to pursue that one. I wonder why.

As for one man single handedly "creating" social divison. There are none so blind as those that will not see.

He didn't create it, it was always there. It is that no one bothered to think that removing it from society is a good thing. It is around us every minute of every day in this country. It is many others, but I find that Thailand is making a very good effort to hang onto it as opposed to actively trying to break it down and make society more inclusive for all.

Save for the 5 minutes a day where we stand for the national anthem, the other 1435 minutes where every single individual is trying to climb his way above the man next to him.

Or do I have to watch another soap opera where the maids are all dark, listen to conversations about "kaeks", watch stupid programs where hi-so go and try to plant rice and beg for mercy from the heat. These are but small examples but show how in your face these divisions are and yet no one thinks it odd that they are drummed into society endlessly.

I agree, the "social divisions", have been ALWAYS there, yes,

as in ANY other country on this planet, he didn't had to create them!

it's a fact of life, no country on this planet where there are no "social divisions",

they are in fact "social inequalities" it is simply part of the fabric of society.

(i am not asking what he/his administration REALLY changed to the better...!)

So then let's say "he picked this issue up", knowing it would serve him/his party in their campaign well!

(and as we all know it did...)

Is this better, more sensible or too direct?

Different wrapping, same content!

He, his ilk as they tried to sell their stunning "love to this country and to the xxxxx", shouldn't have

picked up the tinder of diversion, just to gain votes, to make people exclusively turn around

to them - to his party ot get absolute majority!

I remember in my home country something very similiar happened some 77 years ago...

However it is easy, very easy to take advantage of the "disadvantaged" and tell them, make them aware

of being the disadvantaged in showing them the accumulated wealth of major businesses and the sparkling

shopping malls, Ferrari's, BMW's and Porsche's of a capital -

but this is very, very dangerous and misleading especially by a man, a family of his format and background!

This is what should be questioned, the question has been formulated the wrong way, this looking glass is warped -

cause it tries to sell the "cause" the "hardship of the poor" only for election campaign, only to serve a parties own cause!

And this is highly repugnant and morally human manure!

I really wonder what the same people would think, say and do if they would be educated abut this mans uprising....

As one looks back at the whole "uprising" being staged,

what has it brought except outrageous suffering and deep wounds to heal

Who gained only a fraction?

Nobody?

so why was this all staged?

for what?

Imagine this would have been a volunteer cleaning campaign for a cleaner and greener Thailand!

If, this man really wasn't all that much involved and had no influence n the violence... why would France bar him from making political statements from their territory?

Because they are Pro-Abhisit?

See... where it all ends up if different questions are asked?

And yes.... what this spokesman of the current US government has to say is protocol as well - none else, next one will/may say something very different... right now "China rocks the boat" around here, but this is a different story!

[Samuian]

The US has lost their creditibility, so who cares? With the USA bombing of Iraq (remember, it was because of Weapons of Mass Destruction, now according to Fox News it is because of the terrorists!) which has ruined the infrastructure and stability of Iraq (true, it was no picnic under Sadam but according to the Iraqi's their life style is worse off today); and with their negligence of their financial institutions (banks and wall street) taking advantage of "loop holes" in order to make profit, ...and with China being the growing economic machine in this region, I don't think the USA has as much influence any more. (Maybe the old Vietnam Vets reading this can set me straight)

PS-- The next time the US miltarty comea to Thailand to do their annual "War Games" with the Thai military, I hope they skip the out dated war games and teach the army how to deal with mobs of violent people, terrorists, and thugs in demonstrations. I think this would be more beneficial.

Good point there. Whereever USA get involved it ends up in a mess. So they better stay away from Thai politics. If they get invilved just slightly, they will mess things up again.

Rant, baseless, pure and blunt rant!

Are you a Michael Moore fan?

Liberation of Kuwait?

"Mr. Gorbachev tear down this wall!"

Star wars?

3rd Reich?

Japanese Invasion of SEA?

Spread of Communist Doctrine

[SomTumTiger]

I agree, the "social divisions", have been ALWAYS there, yes,

as in ANY other country on this planet, he didn't had to create them!

it's a fact of life, no country on this planet where there are no "social divisions",

they are in fact "social inequalities" it is simply part of the fabric of society.

(i am not asking what he/his administration REALLY changed to the better...!)

So then let's say "he picked this issue up", knowing it would serve him/his party in their campaign well!

(and as we all know it did...)

Is this better, more sensible or too direct?

Different wrapping, same content!

He, his ilk as they tried to sell their stunning "love to this country and to the xxxxx", shouldn't have

picked up the tinder of diversion, just to gain votes, to make people exclusively turn around

to them - to his party ot get absolute majority!

I remember in my home country something very similiar happened some 77 years ago...

However it is easy, very easy to take advantage of the "disadvantaged" and tell them, make them aware

of being the disadvantaged in showing them the accumulated wealth of major businesses and the sparkling

shopping malls, Ferrari's, BMW's and Porsche's of a capital -

but this is very, very dangerous and misleading especially by a man, a family of his format and background!

This is what should be questioned, the question has been formulated the wrong way, this looking glass is warped -

cause it tries to sell the "cause" the "hardship of the poor" only for election campaign, only to serve a parties own cause!

And this is highly repugnant and morally human manure!

I really wonder what the same people would think, say and do if they would be educated abut this mans uprising....

As one looks back at the whole "uprising" being staged,

what has it brought except outrageous suffering and deep wounds to heal

Who gained only a fraction?

Nobody?

so why was this all staged?

for what?

Imagine this would have been a volunteer cleaning campaign for a cleaner and greener Thailand!

If, this man really wasn't all that much involved and had no influence n the violence... why would France bar him from making political statements from their territory?

Because they are Pro-Abhisit?

See... where it all ends up if different questions are asked?

And yes.... what this spokesman of the current US government has to say is protocol as well - none else, next one will/may say something very different... right now "China rocks the boat" around here, but this is a different story!

On of TV's best posters, at his best. Thanks for the efforts Sam

[Thai at Heart]

It is times that those foreign countries that still accommodate Thaksin Shinawatra to exams themselves whether to further sheltered this criminal that has financed and destroyed his owned country by creating social divisions and hatred among Thais.

Kasit knows where all the foreign ministries are based. I am sure the government will be only too happy to pay for him to visit the US to plead the case. They may take him a bit more seriously this time when he asks them to deal with Thaksin.

Problem is, largely, the government finds it extremely hard to make a case to the world concerning exactly why Thaksin has been found guilty in the first place, then beyond that, they find it extremely hard to understand how Kasit can even be in this job having rather stupidly joined the PAD protests.

I see a common problem here. Maybe Kasit is the problem when it comes to the government being able to explain to the world why they should arrest and extradite Thaksin. The government knows that there is every chance in the world that any extraditing country would turn around and deem the old charges politically motivated so they daren't try. I wonder if they will do any better with the "terrorism" charges. Oh of course, they appear not to want to pursue that one. I wonder why.

As for one man single handedly "creating" social divison. There are none so blind as those that will not see.

He didn't create it, it was always there. It is that no one bothered to think that removing it from society is a good thing. It is around us every minute of every day in this country. It is many others, but I find that Thailand is making a very good effort to hang onto it as opposed to actively trying to break it down and make society more inclusive for all.

Save for the 5 minutes a day where we stand for the national anthem, the other 1435 minutes where every single individual is trying to climb his way above the man next to him.

Or do I have to watch another soap opera where the maids are all dark, listen to conversations about "kaeks", watch stupid programs where hi-so go and try to plant rice and beg for mercy from the heat. These are but small examples but show how in your face these divisions are and yet no one thinks it odd that they are drummed into society endlessly.

I agree, the "social divisions", have been ALWAYS there, yes,

as in ANY other country on this planet, he didn't had to create them!

it's a fact of life, no country on this planet where there are no "social divisions",

they are in fact "social inequalities" it is simply part of the fabric of society.

(i am not asking what he/his administration REALLY changed to the better...!)

So then let's say "he picked this issue up", knowing it would serve him/his party in their campaign well!

(and as we all know it did...)

Is this better, more sensible or too direct?

Different wrapping, same content!

He, his ilk as they tried to sell their stunning "love to this country and to the xxxxx", shouldn't have

picked up the tinder of diversion, just to gain votes, to make people exclusively turn around

to them - to his party ot get absolute majority!

I remember in my home country something very similiar happened some 77 years ago...

However it is easy, very easy to take advantage of the "disadvantaged" and tell them, make them aware

of being the disadvantaged in showing them the accumulated wealth of major businesses and the sparkling

shopping malls, Ferrari's, BMW's and Porsche's of a capital -

but this is very, very dangerous and misleading especially by a man, a family of his format and background!

This is what should be questioned, the question has been formulated the wrong way, this looking glass is warped -

cause it tries to sell the "cause" the "hardship of the poor" only for election campaign, only to serve a parties own cause!

And this is highly repugnant and morally human manure!

I really wonder what the same people would think, say and do if they would be educated abut this mans uprising....

As one looks back at the whole "uprising" being staged,

what has it brought except outrageous suffering and deep wounds to heal

Who gained only a fraction?

Nobody?

so why was this all staged?

for what?

Imagine this would have been a volunteer cleaning campaign for a cleaner and greener Thailand!

If, this man really wasn't all that much involved and had no influence n the violence... why would France bar him from making political statements from their territory?

Because they are Pro-Abhisit?

See... where it all ends up if different questions are asked?

And yes.... what this spokesman of the current US government has to say is protocol as well - none else, next one will/may say something very different... right now "China rocks the boat" around here, but this is a different story!

The social division that exists in Thailand (and many other places) has relied on those at the bottom of the pile simply putting up and shutting up. For the first time in Thai politics, the needs of the people at the lower end of the strata are first and foremost. To that end, the aims of Thai politics have changed massively from only 10 years ago. It appears to have been decided that the government cannot let the sticks fall where they do, and will try to intervene to insure a minimum measure of wealth to all.

As I said, the issue is that other than maybe one man in the country, no one with any political power appeared to even want to think about how to improve the lot of the man at the bottom of the pile. It wasn't hard to pick up this issue, it is to the failure of all previous dinosaur politicians that they didn't do it before. Not for political gain, but because it would have been the right thing to do.

It is a shame that Thaksin's policies whilst lauded at the time by many outside Thailand were largely unsustainable, lets hope that an two Oxford trained economists can make a better fudge of it. And if they end up delivering a more balanced and meritorious society, who can say that that is a bad thing. For all the supposed evil contained in the man, I don't think anyone can deny that Thaksin has changed the political (and physical) landscape of Thai politics for a very long time.

[scotbeve]

We use 12 bases of the RTAF, sorry I called them our bases. Thx for the fact check though

And am looking up crowd control training provided to Thailand by US now

I think what I saw was a recent article, maybe here, that also discussed 237 million baht that was recently spent on crowd control equipment. The article was withing the last 6 weeks.

That number sounds similar / high as the number (approx. $7,000) per rifle purchase cost a while back..... It SEEMS like the military tell us that they spend this much - unbelievable! Is it akin to the secret military "black fund" a while back (ironic, the color - isn't it)

[puyaidon]

I am an American and I think it is very cute that so many people bad-mouth my country. I have recently watched the history channel and read some books and wonder, what language would the detractors of the US be speaking if the US had not gone to war during WWII. England, France, and Italy on the short list would be speaking German. The Aussies would probably be speaking Japanese. Bad-mouth us all you want but without us, you would have a different native language.

Yes, countries make mistakes and not just the US. The reasons for the US being in Thailand years ago are on record. Whether it was right or wrong, we helped open this country up to major tourism, assisted in the development of the middle class and in the end, helped foster nationalism when the war was over as we were asked to leave.

All the countries having embassies in Thailand have a major stake in insuring that they assist Thailand to resolve the past events. All the countries should assist, not lay blame for these past events.

[dhrobertson]

I am an American and I think it is very cute that so many people bad-mouth my country. I have recently watched the history channel and read some books and wonder, what language would the detractors of the US be speaking if the US had not gone to war during WWII. England, France, and Italy on the short list would be speaking German. The Aussies would probably be speaking Japanese. Bad-mouth us all you want but without us, you would have a different native language.

Yes, countries make mistakes and not just the US. The reasons for the US being in Thailand years ago are on record. Whether it was right or wrong, we helped open this country up to major tourism, assisted in the development of the middle class and in the end, helped foster nationalism when the war was over as we were asked to leave.

All the countries having embassies in Thailand have a major stake in insuring that they assist Thailand to resolve the past events. All the countries should assist, not lay blame for these past events.

Oh dear. Another misinformed American!

The Russians won the war in Europe with help from Bletchley Park. You Americans arrived late and with the UK footing the bill. Please spare us the history lessons.

As far as Vietnam is concerned, surely the lesson is to do the history first. The locals just wanted their country back. Communism was a secondary issue.

Anyway, well done creating Pattaya!

[mojo80]

I am an American and I think it is very cute that so many people bad-mouth my country. I have recently watched the history channel and read some books and wonder, what language would the detractors of the US be speaking if the US had not gone to war during WWII. England, France, and Italy on the short list would be speaking German. The Aussies would probably be speaking Japanese. Bad-mouth us all you want but without us, you would have a different native language.

Yes, countries make mistakes and not just the US. The reasons for the US being in Thailand years ago are on record. Whether it was right or wrong, we helped open this country up to major tourism, assisted in the development of the middle class and in the end, helped foster nationalism when the war was over as we were asked to leave.

All the countries having embassies in Thailand have a major stake in insuring that they assist Thailand to resolve the past events. All the countries should assist, not lay blame for these past events.

Oh dear. Another misinformed American!

The Russians won the war in Europe with help from Bletchley Park. You Americans arrived late and with the UK footing the bill. Please spare us the history lessons.

As far as Vietnam is concerned, surely the lesson is to do the history first. The locals just wanted their country back. Communism was a secondary issue.

Anyway, well done creating Pattaya!

Great post DH.

[mizzi39]

I am an American and I think it is very cute that so many people bad-mouth my country. I have recently watched the history channel and read some books and wonder, what language would the detractors of the US be speaking if the US had not gone to war during WWII. England, France, and Italy on the short list would be speaking German. The Aussies would probably be speaking Japanese. Bad-mouth us all you want but without us, you would have a different native language.

Yes, countries make mistakes and not just the US. The reasons for the US being in Thailand years ago are on record. Whether it was right or wrong, we helped open this country up to major tourism, assisted in the development of the middle class and in the end, helped foster nationalism when the war was over as we were asked to leave.

All the countries having embassies in Thailand have a major stake in insuring that they assist Thailand to resolve the past events. All the countries should assist, not lay blame for these past events.

Oh dear. Another misinformed American!

The Russians won the war in Europe with help from Bletchley Park. You Americans arrived late and with the UK footing the bill. Please spare us the history lessons.

As far as Vietnam is concerned, surely the lesson is to do the history first. The locals just wanted their country back. Communism was a secondary issue.

Anyway, well done creating Pattaya!

Great post DH.

I will not bash Brits,

I will not bash Brits, I will not bash Brits, I will not bash Brits,

I will not bash Brits, I will not bash Brits, I will not bash Brits, I will not bash Brits, I will not bash Brits, I will not bash Brits, I will not bash Brits, I will not bash Brits, I will not bash Brits, I will not bash Brits, I will not bash Brits, I will not bash Brits, I will not bash Brits, I will not bash Brits, I will not bash Brits, I will not bash Brits, I will not bash Brits, I will not bash Brits, I will not bash Brits, I will not bash Brits, I will not bash Brits, I will not bash Brits,...................................

[noahvail]

We use 12 bases of the RTAF, sorry I called them our bases. Thx for the fact check though

And am looking up crowd control training provided to Thailand by US now

I think what I saw was a recent article, maybe here, that also discussed 237 million baht that was recently spent on crowd control equipment. The article was withing the last 6 weeks.

That number sounds similar / high as the number (approx. $7,000) per rifle purchase cost a while back..... It SEEMS like the military tell us that they spend this much - unbelievable! Is it akin to the secret military "black fund" a while back (ironic, the color - isn't it)

It's an LRAD, by the company of the same name. Long Range Acoustical Device. They start at US$16,300 and work their way up. I heard the number US$13 million bandied about concerning the one that lasted, by some accounts, all of two minutes before it was overrun by the reds. But that was just a rumour.

[Crushdepth]

Why does the US feel the need to meddle with politics in every country on the planet? It's not like they do it in an even-handed way, its purely to push their own interests. Tends to blow up in their face too.

Allow me to offer a completely self-serving opinion...

[Thai at Heart]

Why does the US feel the need to meddle with politics in every country on the planet? It's not like they do it in an even-handed way, its purely to push their own interests. Tends to blow up in their face too.

Allow me to offer a completely self-serving opinion...

Ummm. We are in Thailand. That is the only non-communist or military controlled state around here purely because the US intervened in this part of the world.

Oh dear, how short some people's memory's are.

Or if they hadn't intervened before, we would probably be living in a protectorate of Japan.

Edited May 22, 2010 by Thai at Heart

[bangkokburning]

The United States still has great abilities in mediation and arbitration. To dismiss this based upon what occurred in the Bush years only shows a rather juvenile world view.

An offer to mediate BEHIND THE SCENES is hardly meddling.

DOS employs thousands of career diplomats, then there are other quasi government players as well.

The huge reason that America is so disliked by Europeans is that it is an energetic nation that sees itself, its role as the sole superpower as a source for stability and good in the world. Europe and Europeans - nothing more than a talking shop. This has been the case since the first great war.

The US has been hijacked by the military industrial complex. This explains Vietnam and the Bush years. There is little or nothing individuals can do to stop the machine, especially when half the population believes the lies it is fed. bad on us.

But to think that the US does not have the ability to assist, to mediate at some level - well, that's European thinking.

Edited May 22, 2010 by bangkokburning

[Spee]

The United States still has great abilities in mediation and arbitration. To dismiss this based upon what occurred in the Bush years only shows a rather juvenile world view.

To suggest that there was an absence of mediation and arbitration during the Bush years only shows a heavily biased political viewpoint, rather than an objective one.

Obama has no time or concern for mediation and arbitration in Thailand. He is too busy conspiring with the Mexican president in subverting US law and keeping the flow of illegal immigrants coming to the US to get on the dole.

At best, Thailand is a distant afterthought to Obama. He despises the free market, so he has no interest in fostering import/export business between the two nations. He despises the military, so he has no interesting in helping Thailand militarily. He despises democracy, so he has no interest in seeing Thailand become a mature democratic nation.

All Thailand has gotten from the US during the Obama administration is a smattering of broken record, patronistic diplomacy.

Edited May 22, 2010 by Spee

[bangkokburning]

To suggest that there was an absence of mediation and arbitration during the Bush years only shows a heavily biased political viewpoint, rather than an objective one.

Obama has no time or concern for mediation and arbitration in Thailand. He is too busy conspiring with the Mexican president in subverting US law and keeping the flow of illegal immigrants coming to the US to get on the dole.

At best, Thailand is a distant afterthought to Obama. He despises the free market, so he has no interest in fostering import/export business between the two nations. He despises the military, so he has no interesting in helping Thailand militarily. He despises democracy, so he has no interest in seeing Thailand become a mature democratic nation.

All Thailand has gotten from the US during the Obama administration is a smattering of broken record, patronistic diplomacy.

And what WAS (note I do not state were those) that accomplishment(s) of said mediation and arbitration?

Your ad hominem attack on President Obama shows petty bias and cable news paranoia. I am absolutely certain that any/all resources are at the Thai governments disposal - from a huge number of nations, not merely the US should they choose that road.

Presidents choose to focus their foreign policy objectives for their term based on a number of factors. Thailand had been doing quite well economically and its human rights record has been acceptable. There is no reason that President Obama would or should be be meddling in this nations affairs. In fact, Thailand has a seat on the Human Rights Council.

Further, the "diplomatic corp", DOS in particular, as well as those working at the pleasure of the (US) President (i.e. Ambassadors, Secy's /Under Secy's) are part of a well oiled machine of career diplomats that specialize in issues and nations are always available for such causes.

Obama has an agenda, everyone has one. You obviously do - but 90% of any Presidents agenda in any given term has more to do with current events and inherited cock-ups than some fox news tea bagging conspiracy.

George Bush had a plan. A very flawed and failed plan - that is clearly self evident. A plan that was unreasoned and irrational. A plan that is/was hugely costly in blood and treasure. A plan that History will show - was the beginning of the end of the US' preeminence due largely to an unfunded war(s) of choice and a boondoggle of a tax cut to the least deserving.

Your tirade is petty and has nothing to do with the events on the ground. Don't go away mad - just go away.

[lannarebirth]

The United States still has great abilities in mediation and arbitration. To dismiss this based upon what occurred in the Bush years only shows a rather juvenile world view.

An offer to mediate BEHIND THE SCENES is hardly meddling.

DOS employs thousands of career diplomats, then there are other quasi government players as well.

The huge reason that America is so disliked by Europeans is that it is an energetic nation that sees itself, its role as the sole superpower as a source for stability and good in the world. Europe and Europeans - nothing more than a talking shop. This has been the case since the first great war.

The US has been hijacked by the military/industrial/financial/pharmaceutical/energy complex. This explains Vietnam and the Bush years. There is little or nothing individuals can do to stop the machine, especially when half the population believes the lies it is fed. bad on us.

But to think that the US does not have the ability to assist, to mediate at some level - well, that's European thinking.

All true but I modified your post just a bit. Good post.

[bangkokburning]

The United States still has great abilities in mediation and arbitration. To dismiss this based upon what occurred in the Bush years only shows a rather juvenile world view.

An offer to mediate BEHIND THE SCENES is hardly meddling.

DOS employs thousands of career diplomats, then there are other quasi government players as well.

The huge reason that America is so disliked by Europeans is that it is an energetic nation that sees itself, its role as the sole superpower as a source for stability and good in the world. Europe and Europeans - nothing more than a talking shop. This has been the case since the first great war.

The US has been hijacked by the military/industrial/financial/pharmaceutical/energy complex. This explains Vietnam and the Bush years. There is little or nothing individuals can do to stop the machine, especially when half the population believes the lies it is fed. bad on us.

But to think that the US does not have the ability to assist, to mediate at some level - well, that's European thinking.

All true but I modified your post just a bit. Good post.

Thank you, your addition is duly noted and acknowledged as fact, I was pulling the comment from historical context

Military-Industrial Complex Speech, Dwight D. Eisenhower, 1961

Edited May 22, 2010 by bangkokburning

[dcutman]

If the US wants credibility in Thailand, they should

1) have the military concentrate on war games rather that bar girl games when they come here

2) post diplomats who are diplomats. The next head of American Citizen Services at the embassy (Timothy B. Swanson) has publicly stated that he is to be head of ACS "in the country that, according to urban legend, leads the world in Viagra deaths."

If the US wants to be taken seriously in Thailand, they should stop treating Thailand as a joke.

With all that has been happening in Thailand the last 2 months. For that fact the last 4 years. Sorry to tell you, that Thailand is the joke and has been for quite some time.

[bangkokburning]

I am an American and I think it is very cute that so many people bad-mouth my country. I have recently watched the history channel and read some books and wonder, what language would the detractors of the US be speaking if the US had not gone to war during WWII. England, France, and Italy on the short list would be speaking German. The Aussies would probably be speaking Japanese. Bad-mouth us all you want but without us, you would have a different native language.

Yes, countries make mistakes and not just the US. The reasons for the US being in Thailand years ago are on record. Whether it was right or wrong, we helped open this country up to major tourism, assisted in the development of the middle class and in the end, helped foster nationalism when the war was over as we were asked to leave.

All the countries having embassies in Thailand have a major stake in insuring that they assist Thailand to resolve the past events. All the countries should assist, not lay blame for these past events.

Oh dear. Another misinformed American!

The Russians won the war in Europe with help from Bletchley Park. You Americans arrived late and with the UK footing the bill. Please spare us the history lessons.

As far as Vietnam is concerned, surely the lesson is to do the history first. The locals just wanted their country back. Communism was a secondary issue.

Anyway, well done creating Pattaya!

As an American - I have never (personally) been groping for gratitude in regard to the Great War. I am not a student of such ancient History, but I am aware it took a great deal of pressure from Britain to get us on board. We were hardly a willing partner on the European front. It was in fact Russia that suffered hugely and arguably "won" the war - they had little choice.

If in fact the UK did "foot the bill" it was because the UK was quite fine with that. You state it as though the US wanted to be in the thick of it but somehow lacked the resources. The opposite could only be stated as truth. Your nation at the end of the war was broken and bedraggled.

Got chocolate?

The US had played a major role in the stability of Thailand which you apparently no little of. It worked actively with the Thai government to root out and destroy its Communist insurgency, it built the roads you may drive on today. It built huge amounts of infrastructure in Thailand. It provided stability to a nation that was a bulwark against the "Communist" Pathet Lao and Khmer Rouge and Red Vietnamese elements in SEA.

Every country has a right to its own self determination, but I think we can look back on History and see that America was correct - that the governments of Lao, Cambodia and Vietnam are nothing short of tragedy. The war was misguided and paranoid - It wasn't our fight.

But to diminish what the US did in fact accomplish in Indochina (which it inherited from the French) and reduce it to some flippant remark about Pattaya - where you no doubt reside when you can escape your council flat is pathetic.

Sun never sets?

A century ago mate. A century ago.

Edited May 23, 2010 by bangkokburning