Thailand's Reds Return To Heartland In Disarray

[SiamRose]

Oh well, I guess it was FAKE REDS, that's the ticket.

There were 50,000 or more red protesters in Bangkok in March, there were only a few thousand left when the army moved in last Wednesday. And of those few thousand probably only a few hundred tried to burn down anything. So yes the arson attacks were self evidently done by a tiny minority of protesters, less than 1%.

[museumm]

they were noisy, disruptive, confusing and messy, big deal... hardly a crime worthy of execution. Now over 80 people are dead...mostly protestors, mostly unarmed...do we think getting shot at may have got a few people mad enough to run amok? Shopping malls can be rebuilt human beings can't... Seems so many people happy to go back to the same old same old...if its not over then that's because maybe noone on any side has learned anything new!

[yoshiwara]

they were noisy, disruptive, confusing and messy, big deal... hardly a crime worthy of execution. Now over 80 people are dead...mostly protestors, mostly unarmed...do we think getting shot at may have got a few people mad enough to run amok? Shopping malls can be rebuilt human beings can't... Seems so many people happy to go back to the same old same old...if its not over then that's because maybe noone on any side has learned anything new!

Certainly that appears to include you with your meally-mouthed witterings about 'protestors' and 'unarmed'.

First the riot.

Then the cover-up of responsibility.

When that fails, the fake reds.

[Democrat]

If any human, the key you have to be a human, sees what these terrorist have done in the area they stayed (Ratchaprasong) for weeks, will never give the hero welcome. They lived and destroyed everything they could like wild animals.

SHAME on you should not call yourself a Thai EVER

I agree. There will be no regrouping unless they do it on someones buffalo farm. I doubt they will be allowed "peaceful"protests ever again

You are so right there till next year when they win elections. But in the meantime it was ok for the yellow and no colours to break the emergency rule. Once again DO THE CRIME PAY THE TIME WHATEVER COLOUR!

[Jingthing]

Let's be honest. The majority of the red base is HAPPY about the Bangkok burnings. They lost face when the military took over their illegal occupation, and they feel they regained face with massive arson. BTW, there were many violent attacks by the reds BEFORE Central-day. The red apologists think we are fools and will believe it is only a "small minority" supporting the massive arson. No! If that was true where is the massive outpouring of REGRET and APOLOGY from these so called majority reds who are supposedly horrified by the arson. We don't see it because it doesn't exist.

[sjaak327]

Let's be honest. The majority of the red base is HAPPY about the Bangkok burnings. They lost face when the military took over their illegal occupation, and they feel they regained face with massive arson. BTW, there were many violent attacks by the reds BEFORE Central-day. The red apologists think we are fools and will believe it is only a "small minority" supporting the massive arson. No! If that was true where is the massive outpouring of REGRET and APOLOGY from these so called majority reds who are supposedly horrified by the arson. We don't see it because it doesn't exist.

You might be very right, I myself was vastly more shocked by Thai troops shooting at Thai citizens as compared to the buildings that went up in flames, but I guess that's a question of getting your priorities straight.

[museumm]

they were noisy, disruptive, confusing and messy, big deal... hardly a crime worthy of execution. Now over 80 people are dead...mostly protestors, mostly unarmed...do we think getting shot at may have got a few people mad enough to run amok? Shopping malls can be rebuilt human beings can't... Seems so many people happy to go back to the same old same old...if its not over then that's because maybe noone on any side has learned anything new!

Certainly that appears to include you with your meally-mouthed witterings about 'protestors' and 'unarmed'.

First the riot.

Then the cover-up of responsibility.

When that fails, the fake reds.

wow!

[Democrat]

they were noisy, disruptive, confusing and messy, big deal... hardly a crime worthy of execution. Now over 80 people are dead...mostly protestors, mostly unarmed...do we think getting shot at may have got a few people mad enough to run amok? Shopping malls can be rebuilt human beings can't... Seems so many people happy to go back to the same old same old...if its not over then that's because maybe noone on any side has learned anything new!

Certainly that appears to include you with your meally-mouthed witterings about 'protestors' and 'unarmed'.

First the riot.

Then the cover-up of responsibility.

When that fails, the fake reds.

Yoshiwara. All I have seen on TV in Thailand is Propagandists talking. No questions allowed. What is being hidden from us. The democrat party and its democracy.

Speaking of mealy mouthed witterings. It is time the PM and his deputy hurry for the curry and resign. How can they unite the country after inciting so much trouble and so many deaths.

[Chaimai]

You might be very right, I myself was vastly more shocked by Thai troops shooting at Thai citizens as compared to the buildings that went up in flames, but I guess that's a question of getting your priorities straight.

No, don't get that one.

There was nothing shocking about troops firing at self-declared terrorists who invariably fired first. Oh ! and they were illegally occupying the protest site.

Watching rampaging terrorists indescriminately looting and burning Bangkok property was truly shocking.

[sjaak327]

You might be very right, I myself was vastly more shocked by Thai troops shooting at Thai citizens as compared to the buildings that went up in flames, but I guess that's a question of getting your priorities straight.

No, don't get that one.

There was nothing shocking about troops firing at self-declared terrorists who invariably fired first. Oh ! and they were illegally occupying the protest site.

Watching rampaging terrorists indescriminately looting and burning Bangkok property was truly shocking.

You need to first understand the meaning of the word terrorist, what we have seen are not terrorist by any stretch of the imagination. They were Thai citizens protesting for what they believe in. Also I am very much in doubt they fired first. The first attack on them seemed to me pretty much unprovoked. In any case, the army is not the body that should disperse demonstrations.

It seems the word terrorist is pretty much inflated in Thailand nowadays.

[Chaimai]

You might be very right, I myself was vastly more shocked by Thai troops shooting at Thai citizens as compared to the buildings that went up in flames, but I guess that's a question of getting your priorities straight.

No, don't get that one.

There was nothing shocking about troops firing at self-declared terrorists who invariably fired first. Oh ! and they were illegally occupying the protest site.

Watching rampaging terrorists indescriminately looting and burning Bangkok property was truly shocking.

You need to first understand the meaning of the word terrorist, what we have seen are not terrorist by any stretch of the imagination. They were Thai citizens protesting for what they believe in. Also I am very much in doubt they fired first. The first attack on them seemed to me pretty much unprovoked. In any case, the army is not the body that should disperse demonstrations.

It seems the word terrorist is pretty much inflated in Thailand nowadays.

Nope, don't get that either. Try this for education:-

terrorist [ˈtɛrərɪst] n (Government, Politics & Diplomacy) a. a person who employs terror or terrorism, esp as a political weaponb. (as modifier) terrorist tactics

I think the video evidence is there to prove that the red leadership and the red guard (+ a few black shirts, etc) were indeed inciting terror as a political weapon. End of story, court cases to follow.

[Democrat]

You might be very right, I myself was vastly more shocked by Thai troops shooting at Thai citizens as compared to the buildings that went up in flames, but I guess that's a question of getting your priorities straight.

No, don't get that one.

There was nothing shocking about troops firing at self-declared terrorists who invariably fired first. Oh ! and they were illegally occupying the protest site.

Watching rampaging terrorists indescriminately looting and burning Bangkok property was truly shocking.

You need to first understand the meaning of the word terrorist, what we have seen are not terrorist by any stretch of the imagination. They were Thai citizens protesting for what they believe in. Also I am very much in doubt they fired first. The first attack on them seemed to me pretty much unprovoked. In any case, the army is not the body that should disperse demonstrations.

It seems the word terrorist is pretty much inflated in Thailand nowadays.

Nope, don't get that either. Try this for education:-

terrorist [ˈtɛrərɪst] n (Government, Politics & Diplomacy) a. a person who employs terror or terrorism, esp as a political weaponb. (as modifier) terrorist tactics

I think the video evidence is there to prove that the red leadership and the red guard (+ a few black shirts, etc) were indeed inciting terror as a political weapon. End of story, court cases to follow.

Everyone knows the meaning of Terrorist but when in Thailand have they had terrorists. Yes court cases to follow. And I am sure they will get a fair trial. Abhisit will in The Hague.

[Chaimai]

No, don't get that one.

There was nothing shocking about troops firing at self-declared terrorists who invariably fired first. Oh ! and they were illegally occupying the protest site.

Watching rampaging terrorists indescriminately looting and burning Bangkok property was truly shocking.

You need to first understand the meaning of the word terrorist, what we have seen are not terrorist by any stretch of the imagination. They were Thai citizens protesting for what they believe in. Also I am very much in doubt they fired first. The first attack on them seemed to me pretty much unprovoked. In any case, the army is not the body that should disperse demonstrations.

I think the video evidence is there to prove that the red leadership and the red guard (+ a few black shirts, etc) were indeed inciting terror as a political weapon. End of story, court cases to follow.

Everyone knows the meaning of Terrorist but when in Thailand have they had terrorists. Yes court cases to follow. And I am sure they will get a fair trial. Abhisit will in The Hague.

Broken record 'Democrat'.

Your fantasies will not get fuelled here. Abhisit is more likely to face a Nobel Peace Prize than see the Hague - unless he chooses to holiday there.

[monkfish]

We had terrorists in the UK, they were called the IRA now of course politicians.

They would place Bombs in Shopping centers, Pubs, Discos, Trains during rush hour etc. and then without warning BOOOM! Hundreds dead and injured.

I hope this doesn't happen in Thailand! it would be very bad for tourism.

But as the government as already labeled them Terrorists it might.

[hyperdimension]

The protesters need to be mentally rehabilitated. They have been severely brainwashed by being subjected to months of hate speech night and day, and have effectively become a radical cult.

If they regroup then they will again be a danger to society due to their indoctrinations of hatred and violence.

They need to be reprogrammed into peaceful and law-abiding citizens. Right now, while they are in "disarray" and are directionless, is the best time for the government to reprogram them by filling the leadership vacuum.

Edited May 22, 2010 by hyperdimension

[Rideau]

According to Wiki:

Isan's total population as of 2000 was 20,825,00.

The primary rice crop in Isaan is sticky rice, accounting for about 60% of the cultivated land in the region.

Due the the desert-like climate and terrain, they can get one crop per year, two if they are lucky.

Where I live, near the Chao Phraya, they get 3-4 crops per year, and the rice tends to be Hom Mali (Jasmine) or high-yielding Hom Patum.

A large number of Isaan people work in the Bangkok and send money home.

Talk about shooting yourself in the foot.

Hey Reds:

If Thaksin was really your friend, and not just using you as pawns in his Machiavellian plan to take over Thailand, he'd have developed better farming infrastructure in Isaan, and/or researched alternate farming plans, or encourage any other industry suitable for the region.

Example: guayule

This plant grows quite well in desert climates.

What is this plant good for? Rubber.

Not just rubber, but hypoallergenic rubber, which is required in medical applications.

Thailand already is the world leader in Rubber, with all the processing infrastructure and techniques. But competition is close on Thailand's heals, being financed by the Chinese in neighboring countries. However, these efforts focus on the rubber tree, which is not hypoallergenic after normal processing. Guayule could potentially help keep Thailand ahead of the game, and give Isaan a new cash crop.

Well, maybe, Thaksin has his reasons for not coming up with ideas like that for Isaan.

Better to keep you poor and upset, so he can use you as pawns.

You have demonstrated that you understand this country very well.

I'd like to also add that it is Thaksin, who views agriculture and farming as backwardness. My wife told me that he had expressed that opinion in the public many times during his PM tenure. In a speech he wanted to turn farmers into engineers and doctors so they can get rich quick, and encourage more machinery in the farming. He did not mention though who were going to be the farmers or "above" the farmers with modern machinery in the paddy field. Could be CP or his Shin Corp. The farmers obviously could not afford expensive machinery. There must his cronies or giant conglomerates benefiting from importing the stuff from Japan.

I agree with you that if Thaksin were for real, he would have researched vigorously for better ways to farm in Isaan. But he did were populist handouts, accesses to debts, and encouraging them to spend more!

FYI

[yoshiwara]

they were noisy, disruptive, confusing and messy, big deal... hardly a crime worthy of execution. Now over 80 people are dead...mostly protestors, mostly unarmed...do we think getting shot at may have got a few people mad enough to run amok? Shopping malls can be rebuilt human beings can't... Seems so many people happy to go back to the same old same old...if its not over then that's because maybe noone on any side has learned anything new!

Certainly that appears to include you with your meally-mouthed witterings about 'protestors' and 'unarmed'.

First the riot.

Then the cover-up of responsibility.

When that fails, the fake reds.

Yoshiwara. All I have seen on TV in Thailand is Propagandists talking. No questions allowed. What is being hidden from us. The democrat party and its democracy.

Speaking of mealy mouthed witterings. It is time the PM and his deputy hurry for the curry and resign. How can they unite the country after inciting so much trouble and so many deaths.

You too.

Supporting the burning down of Thai working people's livelihoods.

You are the enemies of working people.

Like Thaksin always blaming others for actions your beloved reds undertook.

Get out of Bangkok and don't come back.

[clown]

SHAME on you should not call yourself a Thai EVER

Says the farang.

[horndevil]

I think (and hope) that the Reds are gone for ever as a movement.

The reds themselves were always a a split movement. On the one hand there were leaders such as Veera who is and always has been a genuine campaigner for peaceful change, since long before Thaksin was around, and some of the other leaders who are just thugs. The thugs won over thus destroying the movement.

I would think that 90% of the people involved in the peaceful parts of the red protests were not involved out of any strong political conviction at all. They were just like members of a religious cult brainwashed into following some kind of common movement without fully understanding what it was all about.

The Reds relied on these people but they never can do so again, owing to the actions of Red factions in the last few days. The violent factions within the Reds have been exposed for what they are, thugs. So the Red movement will never again have the critical mass it would need for further protests because the ordinary people will have seen the light by now.

What I do fear unfortunately is a very small band of Reds morphing into real terrorists. I certainly hope I am wrong about this.

Although i do hope what you say is true, deep down i do not think this will be the case (ordinary people will have seen the light...) UNTIL the government actually does some proper and honest / fair reporting of what happened and actually starts to address the valid complaints the reds had (try to spread the wealth, etc)... unfortunatly from what i see from our maids, etc - they are far to willing to blame the whole episode on the government and say that they were all innocent, government conspericy to damage the reds, etc... again as mentioned else where and as to my understanding Abisit wants, there needs to be a real and completly independant inquiry into the whole episode with NO involvement from any politicans.. i think that is the only way that a clearer picture will come out of who did right and who was wrong (personnaly i believe that the governemnt waited much to long to take action - even though i understand that Abhisit was in a very tough spot trying to get both side to accept some kind of compromise)... anyways that is my two cents

[Siam Simon]

You might be very right, I myself was vastly more shocked by Thai troops shooting at Thai citizens as compared to the buildings that went up in flames, but I guess that's a question of getting your priorities straight.

No, don't get that one.

There was nothing shocking about troops firing at self-declared terrorists who invariably fired first. Oh ! and they were illegally occupying the protest site.

Watching rampaging terrorists indescriminately looting and burning Bangkok property was truly shocking.

You need to first understand the meaning of the word terrorist, what we have seen are not terrorist by any stretch of the imagination. They were Thai citizens protesting for what they believe in. Also I am very much in doubt they fired first. The first attack on them seemed to me pretty much unprovoked. In any case, the army is not the body that should disperse demonstrations.

It seems the word terrorist is pretty much inflated in Thailand nowadays.

Nope, don't get that either. Try this for education:-

terrorist [ˈtɛrərɪst] n (Government, Politics & Diplomacy) a. a person who employs terror or terrorism, esp as a political weaponb. (as modifier) terrorist tactics

I think the video evidence is there to prove that the red leadership and the red guard (+ a few black shirts, etc) were indeed inciting terror as a political weapon. End of story, court cases to follow.

The live firing zones and shoot on sight policies by the army were indeed inciting terror as a political weapon. Court cases not to follow unless the current bunch of hired and twisted hands and their controllers can be removed. The saddest aspect of this story is that it won't won't be ending anytime soon

[Jerrytheyoung]

What do you want? A serie of unrests/insurrections? In such a case, continue endless inflammmatory postings.....It is not my option.

So, instead to polemicate over the past conflict, we should focus on the issues and how to fix them. There are real issues in Northern provinces and they must be adressed. The first thing to do is to start a dialog which should begin to defuse the situation.

If we continue inflammatory discussions, no way we will succeed. It does not mean that everything is forgotten: justice has to be done through the regular channels but in the same time, Thais have to explain each other...

First step, how to find representatives of the Population of Northern Regions? My solution: by opening temporary local committees in every village in the Northern Provinces, then those committees will name delegates to some regional committees in order to summarize the issues and claims. So through this system of committees, new leaders should emerge. and the dialog can start after...

[hegenious]

fyi . the heartland of thailand is bangkok and the central provinces , NOT the north or northeast (issan).

How do you think BKK would get along if Issan stopped the delivery of food to BKK and all the Issan people working in BKK just packed up and went home? Where do you think the working class comes from? Without them, how would the elite in BKK get by?

Curious.

Curious?

I don't think so.

The red attack on Bangkok was an attack on the working class of Bangkok.

The workers of Bangkok showed their contempt for the Thaksin forces by not supporting them.

Not one neighbourhood.

Some live in a fantasy world where only the people of Issan are working class and everyone else in Thailand is living high on the hog???? From what I know of people in BKK and the south I don't think that they would be the least bit upset if all khon Issan packed up and went home. that's not my personal view either so save your flames. All you have to do is listen to the way people from BKK and the south talk about khon Issan.

and it's gotten only worse

[Tejas]

fyi . the heartland of thailand is bangkok and the central provinces , NOT the north or northeast (issan).

How do you think BKK would get along if Issan stopped the delivery of food to BKK and all the Issan people working in BKK just packed up and went home? Where do you think the working class comes from? Without them, how would the elite in BKK get by?

Curious.

No doubt they would relax the rules about hiring Cambodians.....

Lots of govt. run farms too............

[chadintheusa]

What do you want? A serie of unrests/insurrections? In such a case, continue endless inflammmatory postings.....It is not my option.

So, instead to polemicate over the past conflict, we should focus on the issues and how to fix them. There are real issues in Northern provinces and they must be adressed. The first thing to do is to start a dialog which should begin to defuse the situation.

If we continue inflammatory discussions, no way we will succeed. It does not mean that everything is forgotten: justice has to be done through the regular channels but in the same time, Thais have to explain each other...

First step, how to find representatives of the Population of Northern Regions? My solution: by opening temporary local committees in every village in the Northern Provinces, then those committees will name delegates to some regional committees in order to summarize the issues and claims. So through this system of committees, new leaders should emerge. and the dialog can start after...

In reality whoever has the money will run for the PPP and buy enough votes to get elected. Then they will work tirelessly to fill their own bank accounts while doing nothing for the people in the north.

[seahorse]

The live firing zones and shoot on sight policies by the army were indeed inciting terror as a political weapon.

Redshirts, Guns and Violence

Terror in Thailand

Thai Power Grows From The Barrel Of A Gun

Thailand:Challenging the "heroic revolution" archetype

[way2muchcoffee]

What do you want? A serie of unrests/insurrections? In such a case, continue endless inflammmatory postings.....It is not my option.

So, instead to polemicate over the past conflict, we should focus on the issues and how to fix them. There are real issues in Northern provinces and they must be adressed. The first thing to do is to start a dialog which should begin to defuse the situation.

If we continue inflammatory discussions, no way we will succeed. It does not mean that everything is forgotten: justice has to be done through the regular channels but in the same time, Thais have to explain each other...

First step, how to find representatives of the Population of Northern Regions? My solution: by opening temporary local committees in every village in the Northern Provinces, then those committees will name delegates to some regional committees in order to summarize the issues and claims. So through this system of committees, new leaders should emerge. and the dialog can start after...

Jerrytheyoung has some interesting ideas. I wasn't too keen on his solutions during the protests as they were inappropriate given what was going on. Now that the immediate crisis is over his suggestions carry much more weight and are appropriate in getting the country on a pathway toward healing.

[brahmburgers]

Haven't read the entire thread, so I don't know whether this has been mentioned:

Remember hearing about promises made to protesters to attend and stay at Red rallies?

At the lowest rungs, the promises were 200 baht/day. Higher up, and those with p.u. trucks were offered more (2,000 bt. to to, 2,000 baht when return home). We also heard how protesters we're discouraged from leaving. Can you imagine Red leaders giving out the promised amounts of money payments after the rallies? About as likely as Saddam Hussein giving out picnic baskets of fruit to his troops after their defeat in the First Gulf War.

And the ID thing: now we hear hundreds of ID cards being found trashed in a storm sewer. Just another mess in a big heap of messes the Reds left behind. Why were the Reds not compelled to clean up, or at least pay for the clean up? Can't get them to clean up? I could. Deputize me, and I could get all the incarcerated Reds out on the streets doing clean up. Hint on how I'd do it: lots of plastic handcuffs, and some security guards standing around with megaphones and horse whips.

[bubba]

According to Wiki:

Isan's total population as of 2000 was 20,825,00.

The primary rice crop in Isaan is sticky rice, accounting for about 60% of the cultivated land in the region.

Due the the desert-like climate and terrain, they can get one crop per year, two if they are lucky.

Where I live, near the Chao Phraya, they get 3-4 crops per year, and the rice tends to be Hom Mali (Jasmine) or high-yielding Hom Patum.

A large number of Isaan people work in the Bangkok and send money home.

Talk about shooting yourself in the foot.

Hey Reds:

If Thaksin was really your friend, and not just using you as pawns in his Machiavellian plan to take over Thailand, he'd have developed better farming infrastructure in Isaan, and/or researched alternate farming plans, or encourage any other industry suitable for the region.

Example: guayule

This plant grows quite well in desert climates.

What is this plant good for? Rubber.

Not just rubber, but hypoallergenic rubber, which is required in medical applications.

Thailand already is the world leader in Rubber, with all the processing infrastructure and techniques. But competition is close on Thailand's heals, being financed by the Chinese in neighboring countries. However, these efforts focus on the rubber tree, which is not hypoallergenic after normal processing. Guayule could potentially help keep Thailand ahead of the game, and give Isaan a new cash crop.

Well, maybe, Thaksin has his reasons for not coming up with ideas like that for Isaan.

Better to keep you poor and upset, so he can use you as pawns.

You have demonstrated that you understand this country very well.

I'd like to also add that it is Thaksin, who views agriculture and farming as backwardness. My wife told me that he had expressed that opinion in the public many times during his PM tenure. In a speech he wanted to turn farmers into engineers and doctors so they can get rich quick, and encourage more machinery in the farming. He did not mention though who were going to be the farmers or "above" the farmers with modern machinery in the paddy field. Could be CP or his Shin Corp. The farmers obviously could not afford expensive machinery. There must his cronies or giant conglomerates benefiting from importing the stuff from Japan.

I agree with you that if Thaksin were for real, he would have researched vigorously for better ways to farm in Isaan. But he did were populist handouts, accesses to debts, and encouraging them to spend more!

FYI

A Thai friend once told me:

Thaksin gave the people fish. HM the King taught the people how to fish.

[richieudon]

These people are not Thai, they are simply scum.

attitudes like this are precisely why Thai society is so broken

I think you'll find Thai society is in a bad way because of systemic greed and corruption, from both Thaksin and the established rich who hate him so much, as opposed to my comments.

I was simply stating facts. The reds that have just pointlessly burned and trashed large parts of central Bangkok are scum and should not be allowed to call them themselves Thai people.

Do you disagree with this?

I do.

I say cut off Isaan at the head and let em have their own state, while at the same time lop off the bottom three provinces... the latter could become part of Malaysia if they like. These people would then, of course, require a passport and visa to visit Muang Thai.

Who would do all the shitty jobs for 200 baht a day?

[mca]

northern heartland

dear writer of this article,

fyi . the heartland of thailand is bangkok and the central provinces , NOT the north or northeast (issan).

Dear writer of this post. Fyi the writer of this article refers to "their" northern heartland obviously meaning the place where they're from.