Thailand's Reds Return To Heartland In Disarray

[way2muchcoffee]

You are either corrupt or you aren't, or are you suggesting the Demcocrats have done nothing wrong ?. I tell you one thing, they have a PM who willingly ordered the army to shoot at protestors, that alone should be reason enough to end his term. But then again this is Thailand, where one PM got the boot for accepting money to appear in a cooking show, whilst another one gets away with the deads of many protestors.

Go read up a bit young man. You need a serious education in the events of the past 5 years. Come on back when you think you have a handle on it all.

1) The Democrat issues with the EC consist of 2 cases. The first is the misuse of campaign funds. Evidently the Democrats printed a large number of posters of the wrong size and used them in their campaign. The second case is much murkier. It involves a large number off the books transfers of small sums of money to Democrat politicians. It is not clear how this money was spent. It is not clear if the receivers knew they had received it. It is not clear why the money was sent. It is not clear that party executives had any idea of it at all. And this case is about events that occurred 5 years ago. The case against the PPP was open and shut. A PPP executive was filmed engaging in electoral fraud. The PPP was disbanded.

2) Regarding Samak. That's a red herring. Yes he was obligated to give up his role as PM for lying to the courts about accepting money to do the cooking show. It was a slap on the wrist. A few days later a parliamentary election was called to select the new PM. Samak could have been voted in again as PM, but Thaksin preferred to have his brother-in-law Somchai take that role instead.

3) The deaths of the protesters is ambiguous as the facts are not known. How many protesters, if any, did redshirts and their blackshirt guards or ronins kill? How many did the military kill? Under what circumstances were the killings carried out? Who killed the medics? Who shot and used grenades against soldiers? Who killed Seh Daeng? Who is responsible for Sala Daeng BTS bombing? Who killed people at the temple? Who is responsible for the various grenade attacks over the last several months? Who assassinated Colonel Romklao and severely wounded his 2nd in command? Who killed the journalists? Answers to all of these questions are not yet forthcoming. It is impossible for anyone to make any conclusive statement regarding the deaths that occurred during the demonstrations. We all have our various suspicions but as of now we do not know.

[Skywalker69]

If any human, the key you have to be a human, sees what these terrorist have done in the area they stayed (Ratchaprasong) for weeks, will never give the hero welcome. They lived and destroyed everything they could like wild animals.

SHAME on you should not call yourself a Thai EVER

I agree. There will be no regrouping unless they do it on someones buffalo farm. I doubt they will be allowed "peaceful"protests ever again

You are so right there till next year when they win elections. But in the meantime it was ok for the yellow and no colours to break the emergency rule. Once again DO THE CRIME PAY THE TIME WHATEVER COLOUR!

The red movment have nothing to do with democracy, Its a Cult worshiping the great leader Mr.T

[slapout]

Many of the posts on TV since the red shirts moved into Bangkok commandeering/destroying both public and private property, prove again, to argue politics is like seeking the end of a circle. I guess we could find some good/bad in every political party/ideologically, but it seems some of the people behind/leading these parties are just downright evil, greedy, egoistical maniacs, who are looking out for number 1.

I just wish that the word democracy was not bandied around as the sought after cure all, by the self proclaimed experts. The term is overused through out the world when some group is not happy, for whatever reason, real or imagined.

[Skywalker69]

Let's be honest. The majority of the red base is HAPPY about the Bangkok burnings. They lost face when the military took over their illegal occupation, and they feel they regained face with massive arson. BTW, there were many violent attacks by the reds BEFORE Central-day. The red apologists think we are fools and will believe it is only a "small minority" supporting the massive arson. No! If that was true where is the massive outpouring of REGRET and APOLOGY from these so called majority reds who are supposedly horrified by the arson. We don't see it because it doesn't exist.

You might be very right, I myself was vastly more shocked by Thai troops shooting at Thai citizens as compared to the buildings that went up in flames, but I guess that's a question of getting your priorities straight.

Say no more! Just watch this videoclip!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O0hsju-roFw

[Skywalker69]

they were noisy, disruptive, confusing and messy, big deal... hardly a crime worthy of execution. Now over 80 people are dead...mostly protestors, mostly unarmed...do we think getting shot at may have got a few people mad enough to run amok? Shopping malls can be rebuilt human beings can't... Seems so many people happy to go back to the same old same old...if its not over then that's because maybe noone on any side has learned anything new!

Certainly that appears to include you with your meally-mouthed witterings about 'protestors' and 'unarmed'.

First the riot.

Then the cover-up of responsibility.

When that fails, the fake reds.

Yoshiwara. All I have seen on TV in Thailand is Propagandists talking. No questions allowed. What is being hidden from us. The democrat party and its democracy.

Speaking of mealy mouthed witterings. It is time the PM and his deputy hurry for the curry and resign. How can they unite the country after inciting so much trouble and so many deaths.

And replace them with Thaksin, Dr. Wang, Arisman. Your nuts!!

[lungmi]

If the reds attack populated malls in Central Thailand, etc. they will indeed kill different nationalities. Not many western tourists in Hat Yai anyway.

I think the reds, before going down this path,

better remember exactly what Sae Daeng made his reputation for back in the day.

Fighting Ideological insurgents back country.

He could have as easily shot Weng back then

as become his partner in a different inssurection now.

Bet the Rangers or some equivalent get a quick resurrection after the first mall is bombed.

And the hunt will be on, and the bodies NOT recovered.

Oh, and Abhisit won't be told a thing about it, it will just happen.

Sarah Pole-in????

Things to do when jet-lagged in Chi?

Disagree with you, because it is a very large part of the population. What has been done in the past with the rangers was on a structured Political Party. It was easy to destroy the leaders and then get the calm, because the instigators of unrests were the leaders at the opposite of the Current situation.Today there is no leaders.

As I have explained it is a very difficult situation to manage when there is no structure controlling the mob, we have known that with some social movements in Europe. The Government have to help the emergence of represntative new leaders, for example by asking the Reds to send some delegations for discussing their issues in Commissions.

Then some new leaders will emerge they will be the people with whom the Government will have to discuss, even the Government will have to help them gaining credibility: how? By considering as credible interlocutors and by advertising on the dialog.

This is the way to do: creating commissions and requesting the Red population send delegations.

Theoretically correct, but the reality is far away from this idea. The red population has been misused by their leaders. The part of the population realising this is beyond the possibility to send a delegation. The other part will send representatives who will misuse them again. Vicious circle.

[Siripon]

When the Democrat party is eventually dissolved, what will happen if no elections are called before 2011? Wouldn't then Puea Thai automatically hold the majority? This could turn out ugly for the Democrats.

First of all, the case against them is not a slam-dunk. The contributions were made in 2006, the law that made those contributions illegal was passed in 2007, so they may be convicted for a retroactively applied law, or they may not. The second offense was a technicality (their campaign signs were too small) and may not call for the utmost penalty.

Secondly, even if the party is dissolved, only the party list MPs and party executives - about 33 seats will be kicked out of Parliament. The rest will keep their seats & can form a new party. The 33 seats that are lost will be replaced in a by-election which will probably favor the same party.

Finally, if the Dems are dissolved, Puea Thai still only has 204 seats out of 475, (while the 'new Democrats' would have about 170 - 175) they would still need to conivince two of the smaller parties to join them in a coaltion in order to take over Parliament.

If there is a 'New Democrats' it's possible Korn will be the new leader.

[Jingthing]

Korn definitely has a future. Image does matter in politics and sadly Abhisit's youthful pretty boy image makes people feel he is weak. Korn doesn't have that problem.

[Skywalker69]

I have just read the whole thread on this, and it seems nobody has mentioned the the PM offered early elections and a five point road map. His deputy also handed himself in to DSI as requested by the red shirts.

The redshirts could have gone home with a victory and saving face if that is truely what they wanted.

They did not, they then put up further demands which were unreasonable.

The government bent over backwards to help the red shirts but the leaders just did not want to know.

It seems they had a lot more in mind and that was shown when the military HAD to move in to dispan them.

The red shirts need to be educated in what democracy really means.

It´s Mr.T running the show, he said no to the deal. Only way for him to come back was if the reds forced the government to step down.

[SomTumTiger]

You are either corrupt or you aren't, or are you suggesting the Demcocrats have done nothing wrong ?. I tell you one thing, they have a PM who willingly ordered the army to shoot at protestors, that alone should be reason enough to end his term. But then again this is Thailand, where one PM got the boot for accepting money to appear in a cooking show, whilst another one gets away with the deads of many protestors.

Go read up a bit young man. You need a serious education in the events of the past 5 years. Come on back when you think you have a handle on it all.

1) The Democrat issues with the EC consist of 2 cases. The first is the misuse of campaign funds. Evidently the Democrats printed a large number of posters of the wrong size and used them in their campaign. The second case is much murkier. It involves a large number off the books transfers of small sums of money to Democrat politicians. It is not clear how this money was spent. It is not clear if the receivers knew they had received it. It is not clear why the money was sent. It is not clear that party executives had any idea of it at all. And this case is about events that occurred 5 years ago. The case against the PPP was open and shut. A PPP executive was filmed engaging in electoral fraud. The PPP was disbanded.

2) Regarding Samak. That's a red herring. Yes he was obligated to give up his role as PM for lying to the courts about accepting money to do the cooking show. It was a slap on the wrist. A few days later a parliamentary election was called to select the new PM. Samak could have been voted in again as PM, but Thaksin preferred to have his brother-in-law Somchai take that role instead.

3) The deaths of the protesters is ambiguous as the facts are not known. How many protesters, if any, did redshirts and their blackshirt guards or ronins kill? How many did the military kill? Under what circumstances were the killings carried out? Who killed the medics? Who shot and used grenades against soldiers? Who killed Seh Daeng? Who is responsible for Sala Daeng BTS bombing? Who killed people at the temple? Who is responsible for the various grenade attacks over the last several months? Who assassinated Colonel Romklao and severely wounded his 2nd in command? Who killed the journalists? Answers to all of these questions are not yet forthcoming. It is impossible for anyone to make any conclusive statement regarding the deaths that occurred during the demonstrations. We all have our various suspicions but as of now we do not know.

Mark that down as - we will never know - probably.

[SomTumTiger]

Say no more! Just watch this videoclip!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O0hsju-roFw

Red Terrorist Savagery at its most depressing.

[agord]

If any human, the key you have to be a human, sees what these terrorist have done in the area they stayed (Ratchaprasong) for weeks, will never give the hero welcome. They lived and destroyed everything they could like wild animals.

Don't be silly. They lived very organised and cleanly, and didn't destroy anything until the end and that was done by a few extremists.

It's unbelievable anyone would think that.

Did you have a problem getting news updates during the red occupation?

Oh well, I guess it was FAKE REDS, that's the ticket.

Organized like having a plan on what to do with everyone's ID cards when the walls came crashing down? Noth!ing is cleaner than black smoke from burning tires it just perfumes the air with sprng freshness. Good to see the people of BKK come out to clean up that mess and start the healing process.

[agord]

I have just read the whole thread on this, and it seems nobody has mentioned the the PM offered early elections and a five point road map. His deputy also handed himself in to DSI as requested by the red shirts.

The redshirts could have gone home with a victory and saving face if that is truely what they wanted.

They did not, they then put up further demands which were unreasonable.

The government bent over backwards to help the red shirts but the leaders just did not want to know.

It seems they had a lot more in mind and that was shown when the military HAD to move in to dispan them.

The red shirts need to be educated in what democracy really means.

This post says it all in a nutshell. Someone in control of the protesters got greedy for more than the PM could give in good conscience and they ended up with nothing.

Thaksins and his flunkies objective all along had nothing to do with democracy anyone believing that has about as much brains as jeff savage. Good on Abhisit and the gov to see through all the bs and out play Thaksin. Just a matter of time now EVERYTHING will come out - investigators or so good now days and easy to trace everything back to those responsible. Great move to cut off the finances to those linked to Thaksin!

[difos57]

fyi . the heartland of thailand is bangkok and the central provinces , NOT the north or northeast (issan).

How do you think BKK would get along if Issan stopped the delivery of food to BKK and all the Issan people working in BKK just packed up and went home? Where do you think the working class comes from? Without them, how would the elite in BKK get by?

Curious.

From Laos,Burma and Cambodia where all the hard working folk come from now.There's not a days work in most of them from issarn and thats from experience.

I agree except I know a few of hard working ones from Isaan but they hate Taksin. Maybe there is a relationship: lazy, dreamers, looking for handouts = Taksin lovers.

[agord]

fyi . the heartland of thailand is bangkok and the central provinces , NOT the north or northeast (issan).

How do you think BKK would get along if Issan stopped the delivery of food to BKK and all the Issan people working in BKK just packed up and went home? Where do you think the working class comes from? Without them, how would the elite in BKK get by?

Curious.

From Laos,Burma and Cambodia where all the hard working folk come from now.There's not a days work in most of them from issarn and thats from experience.

I agree except I know a few of hard working ones from Isaan but they hate Taksin. Maybe there is a relationship: lazy, dreamers, looking for handouts = Taksin lovers.

That has not been my experience at all. I have yet to meet anyone from Issan that is lazy. The people I know all seem to have a great work ethic.

[Chaimai]

I agree except I know a few of hard working ones from Isaan but they hate Taksin. Maybe there is a relationship: lazy, dreamers, looking for handouts = Taksin lovers.

That has not been my experience at all. I have yet to meet anyone from Issan that is lazy. The people I know all seem to have a great work ethic.

Sarcasm, right ?

[animatic]

If the reds attack populated malls in Central Thailand, etc. they will indeed kill different nationalities. Not many western tourists in Hat Yai anyway.

I think the reds, before going down this path,

better remember exactly what Sae Daeng made his reputation for back in the day.

Fighting Ideological insurgents back country.

He could have as easily shot Weng back then

as become his partner in a different inssurection now.

Bet the Rangers or some equivalent get a quick resurrection after the first mall is bombed.

And the hunt will be on, and the bodies NOT recovered.

Oh, and Abhisit won't be told a thing about it, it will just happen.

Sarah Pole-in????

Things to do when jet-lagged in Chi?

Disagree with you, because it is a very large part of the population. What has been done in the past with the rangers was on a structured Political Party. It was easy to destroy the leaders and then get the calm, because the instigators of unrests were the leaders at the opposite of the Current situation.Today there is no leaders.

As I have explained it is a very difficult situation to manage when there is no structure controlling the mob, we have known that with some social movements in Europe. The Government have to help the emergence of represntative new leaders, for example by asking the Reds to send some delegations for discussing their issues in Commissions.

Then some new leaders will emerge they will be the people with whom the Government will have to discuss, even the Government will have to help them gaining credibility: how? By considering as credible interlocutors and by advertising on the dialog.

This is the way to do: creating commissions and requesting the Red population send delegations.

Theoretically correct, but the reality is far away from this idea. The red population has been misused by their leaders. The part of the population realizing this is beyond the possibility to send a delegation. The other part will send representatives who will misuse them again. Vicious circle.

There most certainly are leaders.Even cells have leaders, and they communicate both up and down.

And I have not stated I think that the whole of the red movement will be tartgetsed, not in the least.

But IF the underground factions, start causing violence, they will create their own counterpart just as in the past,

but more clandestined, just as they would be clandestine themselves. Violence begats violence.

And their imagining that an underground insurgency will go on unopposed 'until the gov. falls',

is an old red fantasy from the Maoist days of Red Brigades, Cultural Revolutions and Bader Meinhoff.

[agord]

I agree except I know a few of hard working ones from Isaan but they hate Taksin. Maybe there is a relationship: lazy, dreamers, looking for handouts = Taksin lovers.

That has not been my experience at all. I have yet to meet anyone from Issan that is lazy. The people I know all seem to have a great work ethic.

Sarcasm, right ?

Nope. You may have a different experience but I don't have any problem with laziness from my Issan staff quite the opposite. I think they work harder than the local people (Phuket) for sure.