Over 100 ID cards, redshirt cards found in Bangkok sewer

[gemini81]

Poor Isaan farmers willing to protest for 500 baht a day are required to turn all their Citibank/Mastercard credit cards. Red shirt headquarters will use them to buy tires. Now they can't leave because they can't get a lemo without the ATM card. What's wrong with this picture folks?

Why'd they take the ID's out when you can just throw them IN the sewer WITH their (stolen credit and) ID cards. Thestandards down there are about the same as their camp and their shed homes.

[faranginexile]

or some were thrown away by their owners to conceal their identity.

If that were the case, they would have been found everywhere, separately, and not in a cache as seems to be suggested by the story here, no?

[losworld]

or some were thrown away by their owners to conceal their identity.

in an another thread "Thailand-Live-Today-Live-Saturday" there is a quotation of 1000 cards http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/Thailand-Liv...14#entry3631514 - we will never know the truth

if they wanted to do that then they would destroy them! all reds are not the bad guys!

this is just another example of poor people being exploited plain and simple, most of the protesters were paid and given food and also you have to remember alot of the people from rural thailand are simple people and dont have much how do i say savvy

Well yes and no. We've been hearing this for awhile. Being gullible may explain why they protested but can someone explain why many were complicit in burning parts of the city or why they silently watched nodding their heads.

[jayjay0]

Even the sewers coughed up the evidence on the scum.

Most of them are not scum. I am very opposed the redshirt movement because despite it's rhetoric and trappings it is clear what it is all about and it is not about social justice, poverty, etc., it is about one man. That said, most of the ordinary redshirts are just ordinary people - some were there because they were paid, some were there because they believed, and some were there for both reasons. The scum are those who knew that the real issue was one individual and who whosed terrorist tactics against the authorities, against society, and against those who opposed them Probably most of the leaders abeit perhaps not all, and most of the guards, were scum. Probably some of the rank and file too... butr most were probably ordiunary people, many with good hearts... Without knowing each individual case no one can say anything about the individuals these cards belong too...

Myself I think most redshirts are just like most Thai I know, decent people...

Decent people. You have a funny idea of decent. Holding a country as hostage for meg la maniacs is your idea of decent. Don't get sucked in by the idiots on this board who think it was all Thaksin. There was many others who were in it for there own personal gain.

I believe in the ideals they put forth but I can not support there methods. The red shirts were nothing but low life's who were on a paid holiday from there favorite bar back home. You dont have to be a red shirt to fight for democrocy you can do it with in the system. for instance a letter campaign to there representatives with phone calls would do the trick provided they have the support. If they don't have the support for that then terrerism or do like a country with democracy does accept what is and try to make it as good as you can. That presuposes they really care.

If there had been one decent person there they would have left after the red shirts took it on themselves to invade a hospital.

[IMA_FARANG]

Don't be so critical. I'm sure that many of the Red Shirt masses were those who heard the propaganda, believed their leaders were telling the truth, and really felt they were doing something to make the lives of the average poor Issan farmer better.

Of course, they were just being deluded by their leaders, but they believed what they were told.

It's always like that with 'revolutions". I remember many, many years ago when one of the "student" leaders in Berkley accidentally made a slip in one of her speeches to the mass of students that were getting ready for a "campus protest" there. She meant to say that we will all be behind you in your confrontation with the police. But what she actually said was, "I will be behind you when you confront the police." And she was....she stayed well back while the rank and file of true believers got tear gassed and clubbed. I was young then, but I saw what happened then and recieved a quick and well remembered education in the reality of "revolutions"....who ran them and who got hurt in them.

I guess some of the Red Shirts learned the same thing last week.

[clown]

Why do you guys assume that the ID cards were thrown away by red shirts?

[moe666]

They assume everything, they are Thaivisa Posters. No facts, no proof, no evidence needed to make an assumtion.

[MengWan]

Why do you guys assume that the ID cards were thrown away by red shirts?

The "procedure" when hiring a demonstrator is : Give me your ID, when you leave I'll pay you and

give it back ...

A lot of demonstrators where NOT payed as promised, their ID cards where thrown away in the

sewer ...

NB:Sometimes, during the rally, you receive a special ID card, for the "Yellows" it had a life-insurance

coupled with it.

[hawker9000]

They assume everything, they are Thaivisa Posters. No facts, no proof, no evidence needed to make an assumtion.

.....and no blindness to the obvious...

Edited May 23, 2010 by hawker9000

[sjjmmi]

Why do you guys assume that the ID cards were thrown away by red shirts?

The "procedure" when hiring a demonstrator is : Give me your ID, when you leave I'll pay you and

give it back ...

A lot of demonstrators where NOT payed as promised, their ID cards where thrown away in the

sewer ...

NB:Sometimes, during the rally, you receive a special ID card, for the "Yellows" it had a life-insurance

coupled with it.

4 life

[Spee]

IMHO, just more evidence of use and abuse of one segment of the reds by another segment of the reds. It seems clear that most of the red leadership had a preplanned exit strategy, which didn't include any care or concern for their followers. Sounds awfully reminiscent of some predecessors, eh?

Edited May 23, 2010 by Spee

[whybother]

Why do you guys assume that the ID cards were thrown away by red shirts?

Were they hidden there to be picked up later?

[sanders]

Couldn't you go home without an ID card???? Most buses and trains I've been on here dont ask for ID, they just give you a ticket.

[BlueTerrace]

Its going to be a bitch for the reds when the army gets hold of one of the laptops with their data base on it.

[jackspratt]

Why'd they take the ID's out when you can just throw them IN the sewer WITH their (stolen credit and) ID cards. Thestandards down there are about the same as their camp and their shed homes.

What ignorant, arrogant nonsense.

[asiawatcher]

or some were thrown away by their owners to conceal their identity.

in an another thread "Thailand-Live-Today-Live-Saturday" there is a quotation of 1000 cards http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/Thailand-Liv...14#entry3631514 - we will never know the truth

if they wanted to do that then they would destroy them! all reds are not the bad guys!

this is just another example of poor people being exploited plain and simple, most of the protesters were paid and given food and also you have to remember alot of the people from rural thailand are simple people and dont have much how do i say savvy

Agree not all reds are bad but they want change. But - from many of the people who were there who are reds - they were prevented from returning home and did not want any part of the extremism but had no choice. They were cajoled and threatened and they are too scared to raise complaints although I understand some are working with police (whom they do not trust to keep their anonymity), to identify those thugs.

Similarly those who returned on the buses were all logged, those with ID's were given 1st priority out and those without had to supply relevant information to establish true ID. Yes, the truth may never be known but what went on inside the red camp was just as dastardly as outside including two reported cases of rape. Nice people. And of course, those whose ID's were confiscated never got paid anyway and never will. Another broken promise from ole square face.

Edited May 23, 2010 by asiawatcher

[agord]

or some were thrown away by their owners to conceal their identity.

in an another thread "Thailand-Live-Today-Live-Saturday" there is a quotation of not "over 100" but 1000 ID cards http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/Thailand-Liv...14#entry3631514 - we will never know the truth

Sounds reasonable that they all found the same sewer to throw them in and with an open bag down there it is possible that they all landed in it. yes we will never know it's just too hard to figure out! if only there was a way....

[agord]

Why do you guys assume that the ID cards were thrown away by red shirts?

you crack me up sometimes pornsasi

[clown]

Why do you guys assume that the ID cards were thrown away by red shirts?

The "procedure" when hiring a demonstrator is : Give me your ID, when you leave I'll pay you and

give it back ...

A lot of demonstrators where NOT payed as promised, their ID cards where thrown away in the

sewer ...

NB:Sometimes, during the rally, you receive a special ID card, for the "Yellows" it had a life-insurance

coupled with it.

But that's just an assumption, isn't it?

Edited May 23, 2010 by clown

[selftaopath]

got the names now time to knock on some doors.

Who? The run away police will knock on doors????? LOL

Not let me ask: Didn't the boys in brown and th army have the "camps" surrounded? Didn't they screen these law breakers before putting them snugly on buses?

[Tod Daniels]

Why do you guys assume that the ID cards were thrown away by red shirts?

WHO ELSE WAS IN THE RED RABBLE AREA BEFORE THE SOLDIERS AND POLICE KICKED 'EM OUT?

But that's just an assumption, isn't it?

And NO it's not 'just an assumption' about the enrollment process to garner money as a 'paid red rabble protestor'. Thai I/D cards were turned in and in the protestor got a piece of paper which looked like a small time card. Twice a day the protestor had to show up and get the card initialed; depending on if they were there protesting for a half day or a full day, if I'm not mistaken it was in 12 hour increments.

A friend of mine was นปช. (UDD red guard) security and said they had a special area near the stage at Rachaprasong where people went to get their time slips initialed. Now whether these people were paid every day, or the time sheets were to be turned in after the 'peaceful rally' ended for reimbursement, I don't know, but I DO know that it worked sorta like I outlined. Bummer for the red rabble if it wasn't a pay each day dealy as I'd wager they're out their back wages for protesting. I'll see if I can't track down one of the papers as there are more than a few redz living on my soi who 'moonlighted' as part time protestors down there.

FWIW: any thai no matter the color of their proverbial "shirt" usually has at least 2 or 3 valid thai i/d cards floating around their house. Most of my thai friends have a couple, and some taxi drivers I know have 4 or 5, just in case the police stop them. They can turn in one of their i/d cards and still have a valid one. The Lumpini Police Station has a GIANT metal cabinet FILLED to nearly overflowing with thai i/d's that the police confiscated, yet no one turned up to claim. New thai i/d's are easy to get; simply go and report yours as lost, receive a piece of paper saying so, and then go get another one for I think 100 baht.

As an aside (and slightly off topic) : what the government should have done BEFORE putting the 'poor peaceful civilian protestors' on totally free busses to be ferried back up to Nakhon Nowhere; was to give 'em each a broom 'n dustpan and sent 'em out to clean up the frickin' mess they made the last 8 weeks, instead of relying on the BMA or the 5000+ volunteer who came in after the fact and cleaned up the red rabble protest areas.

At the very worst I think the UDD or the PTP should be presented with the clean up bill. After all, that's who supported this 'peaceful rally for democracy' which turned more into an all out riot for anarchy than anything resembling the democratic process.