Curfew will remain Sunday, Monday's night

[peter48]

Let there be no underestimation of the global significance of what has just happened in Thailand. The long drawn out coverage of troops shooting riotious people in Bangkok streets and the burning shopping centres dominated main time news across Europe for several days. The way people are talking about this is using words such as "terrible".

The tourist industry this summer will be decimated of this there can be no doubt as people now choose alternative destinations often in Europe itself. This coupled with the resurgence of a second economic squeeze the so-called highly likely "double dip" almost now really here according to the world's foremost economist Nouriel Roubini of NY university. Why is Europe now entering a crisis too? 1) the collapse of the Euro 2) the fiscal deficit squeeze now starting in Europe 3) reducing consumer demand fed by fears of higher taxes and the growing uneployment.

Sorry to be such a miserable sod atthe beginning of the week. Maybe some clever Thais will see reason and drop their prices as our GB pound will now get just less than 46 baht ! Oh happy days ...

[wayfarer108]

I lived under a curfew in Bangkok that lasted from 1976 to 1982. Same circumstances, armed rebels trying to overthrow the government by undemocratic means

Edited May 23, 2010 by wayfarer108

[dogleg]

I lived under a curfew in Bangkok that lasted from 1976 to 1982. Same circumstances, armed rebels trying to overthrow the government by undemocratic means

Six years without a night out?? Unlikely.

[whybother]

You think that just because the government announces something or decides on a course of action that we should all just think it's great, shut our mouths and go along with it?

No offense TB2, but unless you have citizenship here, then yes. You have no legal influence on how this country is run as a foreigner. No voting, no running, no voice. If you are truly so unhappy with how things are maybe moving to a country that more closely fits your moral and legal outlook would be best, or your home country where you have the ability to influence these things.

As foreigners here we have the responsibility to obey the laws of the country no matter who is in charge or what those laws are.

Actually, the various foreign chambers of commerce DO have an influence on how this country is run, and members of those chambers can have an input to the chambers.

Edited May 24, 2010 by whybother

[hanssna]

What ?? That's exactly my daily nana party time !

[keithaustin]

I couldn't agree with you more. Very insightful post. I for one was considering moving to Thailand next year when I retire, but am weighing all the pros and cons now very carefully. I am going to take a trip soon to the Philippines to check it out as another place to retire. I really fell in love with Thailand, its culture and the people, but everytime I see a foreigner do or say something out of line, I cringe. It's no wonder that in the big cities and tourist areas that they see us as nothing more than a target. I'll have to see what the future holds before I make a decision on where I will retire when the time comes. Gook luck and good on you for your words of wisdom.

I have lived, on and off, in Thailand for 7 or 8 years, had 2 wives who swore blind they were Thai, had Thai ID cards which meant they could get a Thai passport. It was several years down the line before they admitted they were not Thai, but they were in fact Cambodian and proud to be Cambodian but would not admit to it because falangs want Thai women, not Cambodian women. I then learnt quite a lot of the Thai language, lived in tourist and non-tourist areas and spoke with thousands of falangs and Asians covering a large cross-section of society (including doctors, police, dentists, bank workers et al). In the bars, I would pretend that I could understand no Thai (I could, of course, which meant I knew when they were talking Laotian or Cambodian). This, along with first-hand accounts from trustworthy people, led me to the conclusion that very few of the bar girls are anything other than Laotian or Cambodian. The huge majority of falangs with 'Thai' wives, do not have Thai wives and most will carry the fact that they have been duped to their graves.

Having said that, I still love Thailand, but I am also seriously considering retiring in the Philippines. And one of the reasons is this - can anybody tell me why Thailand is the only country (that I know of) that has a much stronger currency in times of strife? Even since this latest trouble the pound has dropped from 55 to 45 baht, whereas against the Philippine peso it has stayed roughly the same. We falangs cannot plan our retirement in Thailand because they 'mess around' with the exchange rate so much. Our pensions could literally halve within a few years. If the tolerance, either side, was 20% and the exchange rate was not 'messed around' with, then one could plan one's future better.

I suppose I'll get the usual 'rubbishing' of the true facts I have said which will probably include something along the lines 'you expected being rubbished, so here it is'. I'll preempt such people by not just saying 'get a life' but 'get into the real world, and stop letting Cambodians run rings around you (like they did to me).

I have lived, on and off, in Thailand for 7 or 8 years, had 2 wives who swore blind they were Thai, had Thai ID cards which meant they could get a Thai passport. It was several years down the line before they admitted they were not Thai, but they were in fact Cambodian and proud to be Cambodian but would not admit to it because falangs want Thai women, not Cambodian women. I then learnt quite a lot of the Thai language, lived in tourist and non-tourist areas and spoke with thousands of falangs and Asians covering a large cross-section of society (including doctors, police, dentists, bank workers et al). In the bars, I would pretend that I could understand no Thai (I could, of course, which meant I knew when they were talking Laotian or Cambodian). This, along with first-hand accounts from trustworthy people, led me to the conclusion that very few of the bar girls are anything other than Laotian or Cambodian. The huge majority of falangs with 'Thai' wives, do not have Thai wives and most will carry the fact that they have been duped to their graves.

Having said that, I still love Thailand, but I am also seriously considering retiring in the Philippines. And one of the reasons is this - can anybody tell me why Thailand is the only country (that I know of) that has a much stronger currency in times of strife? Even since this latest trouble the pound has dropped from 55 to 45 baht, whereas against the Philippine peso it has stayed roughly the same. We falangs cannot plan our retirement in Thailand because they 'mess around' with the exchange rate so much. Our pensions could literally halve within a few years. If the tolerance, either side, was 20% and the exchange rate was not 'messed around' with, then one could plan one's future better.

I suppose I'll get the usual 'rubbishing' of the true facts I have said which will probably include something along the lines 'you expected being rubbished, so here it is'. I'll preempt such people by not just saying 'get a life' but 'get into the real world, and stop letting Cambodians run rings around you (like they did to me).

[ThaiAdventure]

<snip..long bitter rant>

and stop letting Cambodians run rings around you (like they did to me).

Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me.

Although I don't know what you've got against Cambodians.

This is post should be in the general section or at least not here

Edited May 24, 2010 by ThaiAdventure

[SanSaiExPat]

One thing few are currently looking at is when the curfews are over and the military return to barracks who will provide security considering the police have shown they will not provide protection to citizens against crime from the reds? Dont think the authorites arent thinking about this and dont think the reds arent either.

Excellent point Hammered,.. and right on the money IMO.

It's a disturbing point and I see it is the Achilles heel of the current government and its sincere attempt to restore order and control.

I just wonder how much influence ex pol general Thaksin still has over the brown quarter?

In virtually every other civilized country in the western world you can rely on the police to uphold law and order and respond to civil unrest, but here in Thailand that isn't so and it is the one major factor that makes me very nervous and anxious about living here.

Yes a very good point, there is a reduced ability to maintain order here at the best of times.

In ther worst of times this proves totally inadequate. What is to be done?

Certainly Thaksin is tooth and jowel with elements of the police heirchy that he spent decades cultivating.

It is a very good point but only every once in a while we do hear the government mention police reform (if reform would be possible)

Most people realize the police dont police and are reported to be the largest criminal gang in thailand and in my opinion reform would not work,

Then we have a military with 90 or more generals! who seem to be split,

Still the government try to push the plan for 3? nuclear power plants without confronting the security problems here,

Imagine what could have been in the last week if these power plants were already and online...it makes me shiver!

Seems like everything makes you shiver young man. It's a dangerous world we live in. Thaksin understood that and knew how to protect Thailand. President Ronald Reagan understood that too. It takes strong leaders, leading strong Democratic Republics to hold things together not weak knee liberals seeking a consensus. People who gravitate to the middle of the road get run over.

[wolf5370]

I couldn't agree with you more. Very insightful post. I for one was considering moving to Thailand next year when I retire, but am weighing all the pros and cons now very carefully. I am going to take a trip soon to the Philippines to check it out as another place to retire. I really fell in love with Thailand, its culture and the people, but everytime I see a foreigner do or say something out of line, I cringe. It's no wonder that in the big cities and tourist areas that they see us as nothing more than a target. I'll have to see what the future holds before I make a decision on where I will retire when the time comes. Gook luck and good on you for your words of wisdom.

I have lived, on and off, in Thailand for 7 or 8 years, had 2 wives who swore blind they were Thai, had Thai ID cards which meant they could get a Thai passport. It was several years down the line before they admitted they were not Thai, but they were in fact Cambodian and proud to be Cambodian but would not admit to it because falangs want Thai women, not Cambodian women. I then learnt quite a lot of the Thai language, lived in tourist and non-tourist areas and spoke with thousands of falangs and Asians covering a large cross-section of society (including doctors, police, dentists, bank workers et al). In the bars, I would pretend that I could understand no Thai (I could, of course, which meant I knew when they were talking Laotian or Cambodian). This, along with first-hand accounts from trustworthy people, led me to the conclusion that very few of the bar girls are anything other than Laotian or Cambodian. The huge majority of falangs with 'Thai' wives, do not have Thai wives and most will carry the fact that they have been duped to their graves.

Having said that, I still love Thailand, but I am also seriously considering retiring in the Philippines. And one of the reasons is this - can anybody tell me why Thailand is the only country (that I know of) that has a much stronger currency in times of strife? Even since this latest trouble the pound has dropped from 55 to 45 baht, whereas against the Philippine peso it has stayed roughly the same. We falangs cannot plan our retirement in Thailand because they 'mess around' with the exchange rate so much. Our pensions could literally halve within a few years. If the tolerance, either side, was 20% and the exchange rate was not 'messed around' with, then one could plan one's future better.

I suppose I'll get the usual 'rubbishing' of the true facts I have said which will probably include something along the lines 'you expected being rubbished, so here it is'. I'll preempt such people by not just saying 'get a life' but 'get into the real world, and stop letting Cambodians run rings around you (like they did to me).

<Removed duplication>

Many Thais living around the borders speak Lao or Kmer. It was not that long ago that the borders were very different also there was an exodus during the Pol Pot days. I know Thais who call themselves Lao although they were born in Thailand to parents born in Thailand and have never been to Laos - just as there are Brits/Yanks/etc that call themselves Scots, Irish etc due to descent that may actually be many generations past. If they have Thai ID cards and can get passports, odds are they are indeed Thai.

The Philipines remians a more dangerous place for foreigners than Thailand IMO; I was there a few times (only month stays), and never really felt safe as I do in Thailand - even with these troubles. Maybe I'm deluding myself, but I lived and worked in London when the IRA was doing its worst - I was just down the road when the bomb that took out the 700 year old church and badly damaged the NatWest Building went off - I heard it and felt it. I often walked to Hyde Park at luch time; the IRA planted nail bombs and killed several horses, a millitary band and many multi-national visitors. On 7/7 I was on the tube just an hour before the bombs went off. I was at the Thai Food Festival in London when they evacuated the park because of bomb threats just after 7/7. None of that scared me (though some shocked me) becuase I knew it was much more likely I'd be hit by a car or even lightning! What is scary is walking home from a club in London at 2am - or walking down any street in Manila after dark - here, in Chiang Mai, never felt safer out at night.

[keithaustin]

I couldn't agree with you more. Very insightful post. I for one was considering moving to Thailand next year when I retire, but am weighing all the pros and cons now very carefully. I am going to take a trip soon to the Philippines to check it out as another place to retire. I really fell in love with Thailand, its culture and the people, but everytime I see a foreigner do or say something out of line, I cringe. It's no wonder that in the big cities and tourist areas that they see us as nothing more than a target. I'll have to see what the future holds before I make a decision on where I will retire when the time comes. Gook luck and good on you for your words of wisdom.

I have lived, on and off, in Thailand for 7 or 8 years, had 2 wives who swore blind they were Thai, had Thai ID cards which meant they could get a Thai passport. It was several years down the line before they admitted they were not Thai, but they were in fact Cambodian and proud to be Cambodian but would not admit to it because falangs want Thai women, not Cambodian women. I then learnt quite a lot of the Thai language, lived in tourist and non-tourist areas and spoke with thousands of falangs and Asians covering a large cross-section of society (including doctors, police, dentists, bank workers et al). In the bars, I would pretend that I could understand no Thai (I could, of course, which meant I knew when they were talking Laotian or Cambodian). This, along with first-hand accounts from trustworthy people, led me to the conclusion that very few of the bar girls are anything other than Laotian or Cambodian. The huge majority of falangs with 'Thai' wives, do not have Thai wives and most will carry the fact that they have been duped to their graves.

Having said that, I still love Thailand, but I am also seriously considering retiring in the Philippines. And one of the reasons is this - can anybody tell me why Thailand is the only country (that I know of) that has a much stronger currency in times of strife? Even since this latest trouble the pound has dropped from 55 to 45 baht, whereas against the Philippine peso it has stayed roughly the same. We falangs cannot plan our retirement in Thailand because they 'mess around' with the exchange rate so much. Our pensions could literally halve within a few years. If the tolerance, either side, was 20% and the exchange rate was not 'messed around' with, then one could plan one's future better.

I suppose I'll get the usual 'rubbishing' of the true facts I have said which will probably include something along the lines 'you expected being rubbished, so here it is'. I'll preempt such people by not just saying 'get a life' but 'get into the real world, and stop letting Cambodians run rings around you (like they did to me).

<Removed duplication>

Many Thais living around the borders speak Lao or Kmer. It was not that long ago that the borders were very different also there was an exodus during the Pol Pot days. I know Thais who call themselves Lao although they were born in Thailand to parents born in Thailand and have never been to Laos - just as there are Brits/Yanks/etc that call themselves Scots, Irish etc due to descent that may actually be many generations past. If they have Thai ID cards and can get passports, odds are they are indeed Thai.

The Philipines remians a more dangerous place for foreigners than Thailand IMO; I was there a few times (only month stays), and never really felt safe as I do in Thailand - even with these troubles. Maybe I'm deluding myself, but I lived and worked in London when the IRA was doing its worst - I was just down the road when the bomb that took out the 700 year old church and badly damaged the NatWest Building went off - I heard it and felt it. I often walked to Hyde Park at luch time; the IRA planted nail bombs and killed several horses, a millitary band and many multi-national visitors. On 7/7 I was on the tube just an hour before the bombs went off. I was at the Thai Food Festival in London when they evacuated the park because of bomb threats just after 7/7. None of that scared me (though some shocked me) becuase I knew it was much more likely I'd be hit by a car or even lightning! What is scary is walking home from a club in London at 2am - or walking down any street in Manila after dark - here, in Chiang Mai, never felt safer out at night.

I have never been to the Philippines, so I'll bear in mind what you've said. I remember the IRA days - my sister was on her way to one of the pubs that got bombed in Birmingham (a few more minutes and she may well be dead). I also remember the odious red-shirt leader type graffiti fron the extreme left wingers (such a 'The IRA are great, Birmingham proves it'). I never voted Labour again and will never forget that many Americans funded the deaths of British men,women and children.

I have not been without close calls of violence in Thailand but, again, I agree with you that I feel much safer in Thailand than the UK.

The Cambodians and Lao I referred to fall into several categories. Those born in Thailand, genuine Thai nationality, speak fluent Thai but indoctrinated with the mindsets of their parents. Those who were born in Lao/Cambodia, have various levels of Thai language knowledge, have mindsets of their country of birth and obtained a Thai ID by bribing a corrupt official. And there are illegals, hundreds of whom are deported regularly, only to return some time later. I knew a born-and-bred Scouser who would support any other country in the world against the country of his birth - England. He classed himself as Irish who just happened to have been born in Liverpool. This I find true of the Lao/Cambodian people. Actually born in those countries or not, they consider themselves as 'of that country' and willingly learn or are indoctrinated with the mindsets of those countries. There is a particularly big difference between the mindsets/values/morals of Cambodia and and those of Thailand and Laos. Finally, what do you think of the 'messing around' with the exchange rate?

[mussen]

Any news on whether the curfew will be extended to Tuesday 25/5+ or is it only a proposal at this stage?

[keithaustin]

<snip..long bitter rant>

and stop letting Cambodians run rings around you (like they did to me).

Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me.

Although I don't know what you've got against Cambodians.

This is post should be in the general section or at least not here

I totally agree with your comments about me. After having it done to me once, I was incredibly stupid to allow it to happen again. I think, at the time, I thought I had just been very unlucky the first time and the second time had found a true Thai woman (born and bred in rural Thailand, though not Isan). But after a few years she started to show her true, repulsive mindset and finally admitted all her family were Cambodians and she hated Lao people much more than Thai people. I'm afraid I haven't got time to explain about the Cambodians. We all know that there is good and bad in every country but, if the truth ever came out, most of the 'Thais' who are of Cambodian parents, and therefore mindsets/values/morals, whether born in Thailand or not, quite happily give Thailand a bad name by behaving badly under the guise of 'being Thai'. Over the years, I have known 100s of British/Thai couples in the UK. Some of the women are really Lao, the rest are really Cambodian. None of the marriages have lasted.