An Open Letter To The Red Shirts

[hammered]

- The Abhisit government has already, many months ago introduced overriding policy directives aimed at gaining a better sharing of the wealth, ensuring much better quality of education, a long-term plan to made Thailand a welfare society. Somehow very few of the so called journalists have even bothered to bring these facts back into the discussions.

The disparity in wealth is only part of the problem, but to the degree to which it is, there's an awkward fact for some that the efforts being made by the Dems referred to above would not have even been on the agenda without the impact of Thaksin.

I was reading the latest Anand piece. It seems clear now that every party and side accepts that inequalities in wealth distribution, educational and business opportunity must be addressed. That side of things is now consensus albeit missed by many people. How to remove it from bitter personalised hate filled power struggles remains a bit tricky however especially considering there are some pretty big financial and business rewards potentially available for those who come out on top

[scorecard]

- The Abhisit government has already, many months ago introduced overriding policy directives aimed at gaining a better sharing of the wealth, ensuring much better quality of education, a long-term plan to made Thailand a welfare society. Somehow very few of the so called journalists have even bothered to bring these facts back into the discussions.

The disparity in wealth is only part of the problem, but to the degree to which it is, there's an awkward fact for some that the efforts being made by the Dems referred to above would not have even been on the agenda without the impact of Thaksin.

Absolutely cannot agree that thaksin can claim credit for any move towards democracy or sharing of the wealth.

He did nothing more than deliberately give people false hopes by buying their votes and allegiance. Nothing more!

[Samuian]

- The Abhisit government has already, many months ago introduced overriding policy directives aimed at gaining a better sharing of the wealth, ensuring much better quality of education, a long-term plan to made Thailand a welfare society. Somehow very few of the so called journalists have even bothered to bring these facts back into the discussions.

The disparity in wealth is only part of the problem, but to the degree to which it is, there's an awkward fact for some that the efforts being made by the Dems referred to above would not have even been on the agenda without the impact of Thaksin.

I was reading the latest Anand piece. It seems clear now that every party and side accepts that inequalities in wealth distribution, educational and business opportunity must be addressed. That side of things is now consensus albeit missed by many people. How to remove it from bitter personalised hate filled power struggles remains a bit tricky however especially considering there are some pretty big financial and business rewards potentially available for those who come out on top

This is the real "diversion"... it's the "naked truth" behind this all -

go and tell - indoctrinate the people especially in 3rd world - developing

countries that their misery is because of there are so many wealthy people in the capital...

well, there is some truth to it, some, but it's NOT the truth!

yes educated the people - it's just another "excuse" to extend "shelf life"...

as if there were not have's and have not's - in the US in Europe, it's a fact of life,

even in so called "socialist countries" or former communist countries things weren't by far as bright

as the picture that has been painted all over in the parties propaganda, in fact things have been pretty dull and grey

for most of the populace, but the leaders and some "chosen ones" always did swim in gravy....!

It's a very nasty grip into the trickery box.... very nasty!

But always seems to work....

Edited May 25, 2010 by Samuian

[junglist]

A step in the right direction.

Respect.

[scorecard]

- The Abhisit government has already, many months ago introduced overriding policy directives aimed at gaining a better sharing of the wealth, ensuring much better quality of education, a long-term plan to made Thailand a welfare society. Somehow very few of the so called journalists have even bothered to bring these facts back into the discussions.

The disparity in wealth is only part of the problem, but to the degree to which it is, there's an awkward fact for some that the efforts being made by the Dems referred to above would not have even been on the agenda without the impact of Thaksin.

I agree. Completely. This is the legacy of Thaksin. He put the poor on the board. In the past, it was who could pay the most during election time, but after Thaksin, you had to have actual, real programs in your policies to help the poor. The Dem's have been doing that, but it all fell down when Thaksin decided regaining his power and control over the country took precedent over anything being done to help the poor.

Going forward, we will have to see what affect this all has on the normal democratic process.

Quote from above: ".....but after Thaksin, you had to have actual, real programs in your policies to help the poor. The Dem's have been doing that, but it all fell down when Thaksin decided regaining his power and control over the country took precedent over anything being done to help the poor. ..."

I suggest there a further angle on the fact that the dems have been introducing reforms etc.

That point is PM Abhisits own policies about balanced reporting etc. When the dems and their coalition partners formed a government abhisit said very strongly that state media (e.g. NBT) must never be a controlled mouthpiece of the government - must never be a PR machine to deliberately make the government look good and to deliberately make the opposition look bad.

In fact I believe he made a quite strong speech about this matter just after he became PM. He apparently stated that NBT should look something like the old style BBC in that it's responsibility was to report the facts regardless of whether the facts made the government (or anybody) look good or look bad. (Note: I'm not suggesting this replects what we see today in terms of the BBC!)

My understanding is that PM Abhisit has also stated several times that he wants his government to be be rated highly because of good policies and real actions, and not rated highly because of clever (read clever spin) rhetoric.

It seems to me that PM Abhisit's policies on these matters are to be applauded but I suggest it's also true that he has in a strange way a victim of his own good intentions.

Edited May 25, 2010 by scorecard

[jayjay0]

I whole heartedly agree with you that the principals they originally put forth are good and commendable.

Where you fail to address the problem is when you mistakenly said [ The voice that you have always had has been discovered too late, and because it was so long pent up] The reality is that they don't really care they will vote for who ever pays them. This is just another attempt to make the red shirts look good.

My question to you is why do you have to be a red shirt to believe in democracy. I have said it before and I will say it again. If the red shirts really wanted democracy and they had all the support they claim to have they could write a letter every week to there representative and follow up with phone calls. This would tell the politicians much more than trying to burn Bangkok down.

Unfortunately for us the red shirts have no ideals they like the people they oppose go where the money is.

[leogerritsen]

Now, Reds leaders should show a bit of regrets for what has wrongly been done in the name of their alleged fight for democracy

Agreed. One of the many things that disturbed me about the reddies was their complete unwillingness to admit they had done anything wrong in the least. Where is the Thai spirit of เกรงใจ (krengjai, being aware and considerate of the feelings of others) in what they did. Did they say to the 60,000 whom they'd put out of work for two months "sorry, we feel your pain, you're people like us, just please bear with us because we have to do this?" No. They committed a sort of psychic rape on the city and the country, and none of them has yet expressed any sense that this was wrong in any way. Why not put the leaders in jail for years and make them listen to their own hateful speeches from early morning till late at night, the way they did with their followers and everyone else in that district?

However, Somtow has said exactly the right things, I also agree completely with him, and I don't see how his remarks are "patronizing." Beautifully expressed. But I don't have much hope that they'll find much resonance among the redshirts or their leaders--they're too full of themselves and their trumped-up anger. They will, if they read those words, probably see them as soft, the product of an elitist upbringing, not fit for consumption by the masses. Now THAT would be patronizing. Ironic that Nutthawut was wearing a Ghandi T-shirt when taken away. I wonder if he knows anything about Ghandi at all.

1. Krengjai is what Abhisit was showing. Boon koong ( บุญคุณ ) is what the Isan people are showing towards Thaksin and it means a lot more than just gratitude . . .

2. Ghandi , Mandela both were sent to prison because of their 'behaviour', only after some years they evolved into more peacefull rebellions. I hope the same will happen to many of us

I thank Kung Somtow for his letter, i hope it will taken to heart by all people (not just the Red Shirts) that have feelings of hatred and anger towards our leaders.

[scorecard]

I whole heartedly agree with you that the principals they originally put forth are good and commendable.

Where you fail to address the problem is when you mistakenly said [ The voice that you have always had has been discovered too late, and because it was so long pent up] The reality is that they don't really care they will vote for who ever pays them. This is just another attempt to make the red shirts look good.

My question to you is why do you have to be a red shirt to believe in democracy. I have said it before and I will say it again. If the red shirts really wanted democracy and they had all the support they claim to have they could write a letter every week to there representative and follow up with phone calls. This would tell the politicians much more than trying to burn Bangkok down.

Unfortunately for us the red shirts have no ideals they like the people they oppose go where the money is.

Quote from above: ".....If the red shirts really wanted democracy and they had all the support they claim to have they could write a letter every week to there representative and follow up with phone calls. This would tell the politicians much more than trying to burn Bangkok down. ...."

Interesting and valid point.

The red leaders could have also given speeches and presentations, taken part in moderated debates etc., to put forward a case for items which needed more attention to build and maintain quality democracy, they could have handed out well presented literature about the concepts and the processes of democracy. They didn't do any of the above, not even once!

(And it should also be remembered that the red shirts/UDD set up some 500 'Democracy Schools' across Essan, however an analysis of this activity shows that no literature about democracy was ever handed out / there were no speeches or presentations about building and maintaining democracy. These classes were nothing more than sit and listen to reruns of tapes and videos of hatred, untruths, doctored tapes of Abhisits speeches, more stirring of violence, etc.)

They could have highlighted that quality democracy (with all it's faults) is best built on policy rather than on blindly following personalities and even worse by blindly following money. They didn't mention this, never!

If the red shirt leaders were genuine they would have pointed out the controls needed to ensure that one person / one group cannot ever gain unchallengeable power. They never mentioned this, not once!

If the red shirt leaders were genuine they would have pointed out that vote buying is highly dangerous and highly destructive to the processes of building and maintaining democracy. They didn't mention this, not once!

Further, for the past numerous decades there has been a large number of politicians in the house from the Essan area (and of course from the other areas). Why didn't the Essan politicians stand up 30 years ago and demand better education (and more) for their constituencies? The truth is that most of them were in the parliament through votebuying and were there for one reason only - graft! In othere words, the Essan locals (and more) should vent their anger at the right people.

The ultimate point is that the red shirt activity is nothing more than a smokescreen over trying to get thaksin pardoned and the old constitution reinstated so that thaksin and his cronies can get back to the old style politics and graft.

Thailand desperately needs to move forward, not backwards, and I suggest Abhisit with Khun Korn can take Thailand into a compeletely new era and fairly quickly bring Thailand much closer to first world status.

Edited May 25, 2010 by scorecard

[DeeYai]

Probably well over the heads of many, even if they read the Nation which is most unlikely.

DeeYai

[toenail]

Comments to the sentences:

Not many people in Bangkok would feel grateful to you at this moment. NO, I don't think people of BKK will open their arms up to the Reds anymore. But I do want to thank you. What you did was really important, though perhaps not for the reasons you think. "Yes, what you did important was to re-enforce the incorrect stereotype of the rural Isaan farmer and Northern rural farmer. And I want to explain why.

When you build a road, you will sometimes come to a mountain. To get to the other side, you may have to go around it. You may have to dig a tunnel. Or you may have to blow up the mountain. Thailand has come to that mountain. But for at least two decades, no one has been willing to go around, dig, or blow it up. Yet everyone knows we must get through. The mountain is in the way. Some past governments have stolen your money (Thakisn? ) to build golden hot-air balloons (and telecommunication co.) so that a few individuals could get across, not caring if the rest were stranded. Others have talked and talked, but the mountain is still there. Of course you are impatient. -but fail to see how much progress your country has made in the pass 30 years; and fail to compare your life to the standard of living that your grand parents had. )

You didn't blow up the mountain, (What?? I think they blew up plenty of "mountains") but the tragic events that have unfolded have convinced everyone that it is time to move on. Your people - and the soldiers, too - did not suffer and die in vain. And your leaders should have accepted the PM's early election offer for NOV. 14 in order to prevent this suffering, this chaos... Though we seem to be in darkness and chaos, a fuller democracy is closer today than it has been at any time during the Thaksin administration and all its successors. There will come a time when people will realise that you opened their eyes, that you all contributed to this major turning point in Thailand's history. In time, the rest of the nation will understand it, and come to acknowledge it, and even embrace it. NO, people in the future will open their eyes and see how the Red Leaders had their own agenda and used the "common" Thai citizens from the rural provinces as pawns and how the party was not about democracy but more about creating violence if they did not get their way. A "thug" party. For in embracing those we thought our enemies, we really embrace ourselves. -huh? what quote is this from?

[lannarebirth]

- The Abhisit government has already, many months ago introduced overriding policy directives aimed at gaining a better sharing of the wealth, ensuring much better quality of education, a long-term plan to made Thailand a welfare society. Somehow very few of the so called journalists have even bothered to bring these facts back into the discussions.

The disparity in wealth is only part of the problem, but to the degree to which it is, there's an awkward fact for some that the efforts being made by the Dems referred to above would not have even been on the agenda without the impact of Thaksin.

You do not know that as fact. I think the globalised world and where Thailand is in its "developing nation" status has far more to do wih Dem policies. That and the "sustainable economy" pushed by the other institution. Thaksin made people angry and dependant. He neither educated them about democracy, nor did he create solutions for their sustaonable social and economic growth. I do agree he accelerated the program here and it remains to be seen if that will have been worth the strife he created.

[Jimmu]

Lipstick on a pig...

[scorecard]

Probably well over the heads of many, even if they read the Nation which is most unlikely.

DeeYai

Not sure why you mention the Nation.

[yoshiwara]

That's all well and good- nice sentiments.

But weren't there a great many red protesters there for the sole purpose of getting Thaksin back? And they knew it. "Why are you here?" - "THAKSIN!"

Surely there was more than 1 silly Thaksin mask among them.

All that other drivel doesn't compute.

Am I right or wrong?

You are 100% correct.

There is great danger that the mask will be believed when in fact all of this has been nothing more than a smokescreen over getting thakin pardoned, and the return of a constitution which made vote buying easy, and then a return to the old style corruption and old style politicians in control of ministries etc.

The red shirts war cries have been:

- Pardon for thaksin, nothing more and nothing lerss, all stated upfront. That didn't work so they suddenly changed to...

- No double standards, but refused to recocnize their own and thaksins double standards. That didn't work so suddenly they changed their war-cry to....

- The champions of democracy, but in reality not one of their leaders has ever given a presentation about the reasons for / the processes of / the pillars of democracy. They conducted 'democracy schools' across Essab, now proven to be nothing more than venues for more hate speeches and rants, not one word ever spoken about the processes of building and maintaining democracy. That didn't work so they changed their war-cry to...

- Class war - the poor against the Bangkok Elites. In reality many Thais would agree that there is inequity and it's taking too long to gain a better quality of life for all, equal justice for all. But did the Abhisit government create this situation? NO they did not, in fact blame for this situation must be directed back to many previous corrupt governments (including thaksins) for not developing and implementing overriding policies to share the wealth, massively improve education and therefore better work opportunities, more attention to decentalized industrialization and a lot more.

Other points that should also not be forgotten are:

- Every capitalist country (and communist countries also) has inequity across society (even Japan has a sizeable poor and homeless population, also USA,and more). That doesn't mean it's Ok, it's not OK, it should be addressed. It's also true that Thailand's inequity is nowhere near the scale of many other countries and is not at a point where mob violence is the only way forward. But I'm not saying that inequity should not be addressed.

- The Abhisit government has already, many months ago introduced overriding policy directives aimed at gaining a better sharing of the wealth, ensuring much better quality of education, a long-term plan to made Thailand a welfare society. Somehow very few of the so called journalists have even bothered to bring these facts back into the discussions.

Lipstick on a pig...

For sure.

We judge the reds by what they do, not the BS coming out of their heads.

The people of Bangkok have just endured a frenzied attack on their livelihoods and their lives.

Thousands of working people who have lost their jobs as a result of Thaksin's reds are unable to properly support their families.

There can be no reconciliation with a political movement that wants more of the same.

Not until the working people of Bangkok are assured that they can go about their daily lives without never again having to endure the fear of invasion, intimidation, bombs and other threats of violence from the Thaksin forces.

Today's message is that the clean-up continues.

Lipstick on a pig indeed.

The Thaksin reds are enemies of the working class and should be treated accordingly

[nosatisfaction]

I sincerely believe that Prime Minister Abhisit comes philosophically closer to those dreams than a number of your leaders. If he did not - if his mindset had been that of some of the military dictators Thailand has had in the past - the carnage of the last few days would have been unconscionable.

Great article.

exactly my thoughts.

[scorecard]

jayboy' post='3640226' date='2010-05-25 10:49:25']

- The Abhisit government has already, many months ago introduced overriding policy directives aimed at gaining a better sharing of the wealth, ensuring much better quality of education, a long-term plan to made Thailand a welfare society. Somehow very few of the so called journalists have even bothered to bring these facts back into the discussions

The disparity in wealth is only part of the problem, but to the degree to which it is, there's an awkward fact for some that the efforts being made by the Dems referred to above would not have even been on the agenda without the impact of Thaksin.

Dont agree.

Both Abhisit and Korn have been talking about reform and reducing the gap, building a welfare state for a long time and they have on many occasions upset the old dem diehards with their future vision.

Additionally:

- Did Thaksin set out to build 'democracy'? No! In fact he said many times that democracy was not needed / not important / democracy is not my airm.

- Did Thaksin during his dictatorship ever introduce real reforms that by structured policy (not by handouts) would definitiveally and sustainably reduce the gap? No!.

- Did Thaksin over the entire length of his dicatorship ever do anything serious about education (which many people would see as the foundation of a more civil society / the foundation of greater opportunity for all). No! In fact thaksin appointed himself as Education Minister with great fanfare and massive promises and 6 months later (with no results and no future policy) appointed one of his minions (probably someone he owed a favor to) with zero experience or capability as the Ed. Minister. And this person also achieved nothing.

And please let's not forget thaksins aim - buy votes to ensure you gain and hold power, all for his own benefit. Nothing more than that!

[BSJ]

I've never heard of Somtow Sucharitkul before this thread. But I sympathize with his point of view. Maybe he, like I, is a moderate.

[Pawpcorn]

Putting tinsel on a pig's head and calling it attractive.

Or putting "Lipstick on a Pig"... it's still a pig.

To the Somtow Sucharitkul's credit, I suspect she is an EXCELLENT fiction writer, as she has a powerful ability to imagine and visualize well beyond reality, in addition to a flawless grasp of the English language.

Her opinion reads as I REALLY WISH(!) the Thai situations were, and could be, in reality.

But I suspect the tens of thousands of poor rural Red Shirts have such limited true education, and have such limited grasp of "the big picture", or have been lied to (minds poisoned?) for so many generations, (passed on from Mother and Father (or teacher), to son and daughter), so as to have the chances of this opinion piece ever actually being read by any number of rural Red Shirts, much less comprehended and understood, at practically nil.

One thing about Thai culture, if a parent or teacher tells their child something as FACT, the child accepts it unconditionally, as FACT. This behavior tends to make for smooth relations within the household, but it's 100% opposite of Western culture! In my American culture, we question EVERYTHING we are told, and frankly, disbelieve it, until we can prove it (right or wrong or gray) to ourselves with additional research or experience! This Western cultural behavior often causes a huge amount of conflict within households and in school, but I think it's generally positive, since it tends to allow the culture to change (and hopefully improve) on a rather rapid basis.

But here in Thailand, odd perceptions and false realities perpetuate, on and on, generation after generation; things seemingly never change, or at best, are very SLOW to change. As an aside, in many ways, this is the attraction Thailand holds for Westerners; it's like life in our country, a hundred or more years ago. Sort of like the 1890s with fast cars and internet.

It's a very complicated picture, Thai culture. One thing that never seems to get mentioned much in these discussions is the STRONG discrimination Central Thais feel about Northern Thais. It closely resembles traditional racism.

The worst thing a Central Thai can imagine (speaking generally) is having DARK SKIN! Why is this? Because Central Thais identify this with dark-skinned Northern Thais, who, politely stated, are VERY LOW on the "totem pole" of esteem within Thai society. Amongst other Thais, they are often referred to as "Lao" as a put-down, referring to Laos, even when clearly Thai, living in Northern Thailand.

So my point here is that I feel a deep seated "racism" is largely at play here. Coming from the deeply-racist United States, I understand racism pretty well... and I know it can take a LONG time for racist ways of thinking and feeling to fade away. And since Thai society changes MUCH slower than many other societies (due to the above mentioned "acceptance as fact" aspect of Thai culture) this divide in Thai society may take a LONG time to resolve.

The government really has their work cut out for them! Who can really expect this government to solve this multitude of problems, so many of which are long-standing aspects of the Thai culture???

Amazing Thailand. I DO love Thailand, heart and soul.

[SomTumTiger]

Putting tinsel on a pig's head and calling it attractive.

Or putting "Lipstick on a Pig"... it's still a pig.

To the Somtow Sucharitkul's credit, I suspect she is an EXCELLENT fiction writer, as she has a powerful ability to imagine and visualize well beyond reality, in addition to a flawless grasp of the English language.

Her opinion reads as I REALLY WISH(!) the Thai situations were, and could be, in reality.

But I suspect the tens of thousands of poor rural Red Shirts have such limited true education, and have such limited grasp of "the big picture", or have been lied to (minds poisoned?) for so many generations, (passed on from Mother and Father (or teacher), to son and daughter), so as to have the chances of this opinion piece ever actually being read by any number of rural Red Shirts, much less comprehended and understood, at practically nil.

One thing about Thai culture, if a parent or teacher tells their child something as FACT, the child accepts it unconditionally, as FACT. This behavior tends to make for smooth relations within the household, but it's 100% opposite of Western culture! In my American culture, we question EVERYTHING we are told, and frankly, disbelieve it, until we can prove it (right or wrong or gray) to ourselves with additional research or experience! This Western cultural behavior often causes a huge amount of conflict within households and in school, but I think it's generally positive, since it tends to allow the culture to change (and hopefully improve) on a rather rapid basis.

But here in Thailand, odd perceptions and false realities perpetuate, on and on, generation after generation; things seemingly never change, or at best, are very SLOW to change. As an aside, in many ways, this is the attraction Thailand holds for Westerners; it's like life in our country, a hundred or more years ago. Sort of like the 1890s with fast cars and internet.

It's a very complicated picture, Thai culture. One thing that never seems to get mentioned much in these discussions is the STRONG discrimination Central Thais feel about Northern Thais. It closely resembles traditional racism.

The worst thing a Central Thai can imagine (speaking generally) is having DARK SKIN! Why is this? Because Central Thais identify this with dark-skinned Northern Thais, who, politely stated, are VERY LOW on the "totem pole" of esteem within Thai society. Amongst other Thais, they are often referred to as "Lao" as a put-down, referring to Laos, even when clearly Thai, living in Northern Thailand.

So my point here is that I feel a deep seated "racism" is largely at play here. Coming from the deeply-racist United States, I understand racism pretty well... and I know it can take a LONG time for racist ways of thinking and feeling to fade away. And since Thai society changes MUCH slower than many other societies (due to the above mentioned "acceptance as fact" aspect of Thai culture) this divide in Thai society may take a LONG time to resolve.

The government really has their work cut out for them! Who can really expect this government to solve this multitude of problems, so many of which are long-standing aspects of the Thai culture???

Amazing Thailand. I DO love Thailand, heart and soul.

Somtow is a man....

[Thai at Heart]

jayboy' post='3640226' date='2010-05-25 10:49:25']

- The Abhisit government has already, many months ago introduced overriding policy directives aimed at gaining a better sharing of the wealth, ensuring much better quality of education, a long-term plan to made Thailand a welfare society. Somehow very few of the so called journalists have even bothered to bring these facts back into the discussions

The disparity in wealth is only part of the problem, but to the degree to which it is, there's an awkward fact for some that the efforts being made by the Dems referred to above would not have even been on the agenda without the impact of Thaksin.

Dont agree.

Both Abhisit and Korn have been talking about reform and reducing the gap, building a welfare state for a long time and they have on many occasions upset the old dem diehards with their future vision.

Additionally:

- Did Thaksin set out to build 'democracy'? No! In fact he said many times that democracy was not needed / not important / democracy is not my airm.

- Did Thaksin during his dictatorship ever introduce real reforms that by structured policy (not by handouts) would definitiveally and sustainably reduce the gap? No!.

- Did Thaksin over the entire length of his dicatorship ever do anything serious about education (which many people would see as the foundation of a more civil society / the foundation of greater opportunity for all). No! In fact thaksin appointed himself as Education Minister with great fanfare and massive promises and 6 months later (with no results and no future policy) appointed one of his minions (probably someone he owed a favor to) with zero experience or capability as the Ed. Minister. And this person also achieved nothing.

And please let's not forget thaksins aim - buy votes to ensure you gain and hold power, all for his own benefit. Nothing more than that!

He loved Democracy as long as he kept winning. The coup was a massive screw up, but it was because he was subverting the upper house, and could modify the constitution, because he had a majority big enough. Also, it was obvious that the courts weren't going to be able to prosecute his wrong doing because they are politicized depending on who is in power at the time. This is a massive problem for Thailand.

In a way, whoever wrote the consitution got it wrong. Of course, they wouldn't have dared to copy all the best bits from everywhere else. In writing the Thai constitution, they neglected to consider that one party could hold a majority bit enough to do that.

Hope for the best and plan for the worst. Not easily reconciled if you believe in fate.

Edited May 25, 2010 by Thai at Heart

[hammered]

jayboy' post='3640226' date='2010-05-25 10:49:25']

- The Abhisit government has already, many months ago introduced overriding policy directives aimed at gaining a better sharing of the wealth, ensuring much better quality of education, a long-term plan to made Thailand a welfare society. Somehow very few of the so called journalists have even bothered to bring these facts back into the discussions

The disparity in wealth is only part of the problem, but to the degree to which it is, there's an awkward fact for some that the efforts being made by the Dems referred to above would not have even been on the agenda without the impact of Thaksin.

Dont agree.

Both Abhisit and Korn have been talking about reform and reducing the gap, building a welfare state for a long time and they have on many occasions upset the old dem diehards with their future vision.

Additionally:

- Did Thaksin set out to build 'democracy'? No! In fact he said many times that democracy was not needed / not important / democracy is not my airm.

- Did Thaksin during his dictatorship ever introduce real reforms that by structured policy (not by handouts) would definitiveally and sustainably reduce the gap? No!.

- Did Thaksin over the entire length of his dicatorship ever do anything serious about education (which many people would see as the foundation of a more civil society / the foundation of greater opportunity for all). No! In fact thaksin appointed himself as Education Minister with great fanfare and massive promises and 6 months later (with no results and no future policy) appointed one of his minions (probably someone he owed a favor to) with zero experience or capability as the Ed. Minister. And this person also achieved nothing.

And please let's not forget thaksins aim - buy votes to ensure you gain and hold power, all for his own benefit. Nothing more than that!

He loved Democracy as long as he kept winning. The coup was a massive screw up, but it was because he was subverting the upper house, and could modify the constitution, because he had a majority big enough. Also, it was obvious that the courts weren't going to be able to prosecute his wrong doing because they are politicized depending on who is in power at the time. This is a massive problem for Thailand.

In a way, whoever wrote the consitution got it wrong. Of course, they wouldn't have dared to copy all the best bits from everywhere else. In writing the Thai constitution, they neglected to consider that one party could hold a majority bit enough to do that.

Hope for the best and plan for the worst. Not easily reconciled if you believe in fate.

Spot on on the constitution write. They wanted to address perpetually weak government that couldnt do anything and forgot to see what might come of a system with incredibly powerful government in a country whihc had little to no tradition of check and balance beyond desertion of coalition allies. Thaksin and his muckers though immediately saw the opportunites of having a big majority and thereby an unchecked government and did everything they could to achieve this and so it went until it started to unravel as the huge majority eventually required huge division of spoils that werent big enough to service all and earstwhile allies who had been forgotten began to jump ship and set up a protest movement. The rest is history

[Old Man River]

- The Abhisit government has already, many months ago introduced overriding policy directives aimed at gaining a better sharing of the wealth, ensuring much better quality of education, a long-term plan to made Thailand a welfare society. Somehow very few of the so called journalists have even bothered to bring these facts back into the discussions.

The disparity in wealth is only part of the problem, but to the degree to which it is, there's an awkward fact for some that the efforts being made by the Dems referred to above would not have even been on the agenda without the impact of Thaksin.

I agree. Completely. This is the legacy of Thaksin. He put the poor on the board. In the past, it was who could pay the most during election time, but after Thaksin, you had to have actual, real programs in your policies to help the poor. The Dem's have been doing that, but it all fell down when Thaksin decided regaining his power and control over the country took precedent over anything being done to help the poor.

Going forward, we will have to see what affect this all has on the normal democratic process.

Quote from above: ".....but after Thaksin, you had to have actual, real programs in your policies to help the poor. The Dem's have been doing that, but it all fell down when Thaksin decided regaining his power and control over the country took precedent over anything being done to help the poor. ..."

I suggest there a further angle on the fact that the dems have been introducing reforms etc.

That point is PM Abhisits own policies about balanced reporting etc. When the dems and their coalition partners formed a government abhisit said very strongly that state media (e.g. NBT) must never be a controlled mouthpiece of the government - must never be a PR machine to deliberately make the government look good and to deliberately make the opposition look bad.

In fact I believe he made a quite strong speech about this matter just after he became PM. He apparently stated that NBT should look something like the old style BBC in that it's responsibility was to report the facts regardless of whether the facts made the government (or anybody) look good or look bad. (Note: I'm not suggesting this replects what we see today in terms of the BBC!)

My understanding is that PM Abhisit has also stated several times that he wants his government to be be rated highly because of good policies and real actions, and not rated highly because of clever (read clever spin) rhetoric.

It seems to me that PM Abhisit's policies on these matters are to be applauded but I suggest it's also true that he has in a strange way a victim of his own good intentions.

If that were all true then there would be no need to ban websites and control the media. Sadly, both Thaksin and Abhisit have gone this route. There used to be free press in Thailand. No more.

[scorecard]

name='Old Man River' date='2010-05-25 16:10:36' post='3641225'

='scorecard' post='3640300' date='2010-05-25 11:23:18']

- The Abhisit government has already, many months ago introduced overriding policy directives aimed at gaining a better sharing of the wealth, ensuring much better quality of education, a long-term plan to made Thailand a welfare society. Somehow very few of the so called journalists have even bothered to bring these facts back into the discussions.

The disparity in wealth is only part of the problem, but to the degree to which it is, there's an awkward fact for some that the efforts being made by the Dems referred to above would not have even been on the agenda without the impact of Thaksin.

I agree. Completely. This is the legacy of Thaksin. He put the poor on the board. In the past, it was who could pay the most during election time, but after Thaksin, you had to have actual, real programs in your policies to help the poor. The Dem's have been doing that, but it all fell down when Thaksin decided regaining his power and control over the country took precedent over anything being done to help the poor.

Going forward, we will have to see what affect this all has on the normal democratic process.

Quote from above: ".....but after Thaksin, you had to have actual, real programs in your policies to help the poor. The Dem's have been doing that, but it all fell down when Thaksin decided regaining his power and control over the country took precedent over anything being done to help the poor. ..."

I suggest there a further angle on the fact that the dems have been introducing reforms etc.

That point is PM Abhisits own policies about balanced reporting etc. When the dems and their coalition partners formed a government abhisit said very strongly that state media (e.g. NBT) must never be a controlled mouthpiece of the government - must never be a PR machine to deliberately make the government look good and to deliberately make the opposition look bad.

In fact I believe he made a quite strong speech about this matter just after he became PM. He apparently stated that NBT should look something like the old style BBC in that it's responsibility was to report the facts regardless of whether the facts made the government (or anybody) look good or look bad. (Note: I'm not suggesting this replects what we see today in terms of the BBC!)

My understanding is that PM Abhisit has also stated several times that he wants his government to be be rated highly because of good policies and real actions, and not rated highly because of clever (read clever spin) rhetoric.

It seems to me that PM Abhisit's policies on these matters are to be applauded but I suggest it's also true that he has in a strange way a victim of his own good intentions.

If that were all true then there would be no need to ban websites and control the media. Sadly, both Thaksin and Abhisit have gone this route. There used to be free press in Thailand. No more.

It also depends on your views whether the media should be allowed to continuously broadcast things which are blatantly untrue (and already proven to be untrue), calls for violence, calls to assassinate people, calls to brink gasoline to Bangkok and burn the city down, and continue to play tapes which have been doctored (and proven some time ago to be doctored).

[MAJIC]

I sincerely believe that Prime Minister Abhisit comes philosophically closer to those dreams than a number of your leaders. If he did not - if his mindset had been that of some of the military dictators Thailand has had in the past - the carnage of the last few days would have been unconscionable.

Great article.

Very thought provoking for the intelligent,and designed to heal the rifts in Thai Society.

More like it please.

[dom samui]

Could you put some sugar in the yoguhrt?

[sabaijai]

I would like to ask Somtow if closing the airport is 'civilised' or not ?

Somtow is a friend, and his answer is 'no.'

[Trev]

I think a lot on here are missing the point. This is not literally a letter to the reds. It is intended to reach all Thais and the message is a moderate one hoping to marginalize the extremes on both sides. This message doesn't have to reach everyone but if it reaches some it can then hopefully trickle down to others.

[eggomaniac]

Except for a few minor errors and one CRUCIAL one, it is a pretty good article.

It is good, I would like to read the same author write;;;

An Open Letter to the Yellows

<< That letter could Use Copy and Paste for much of it, from this letter!

If Somtow doesn't, within a few days, I will give it a go, right here.

[NCFC]

This mountain which cannot be tunnelled through or driven around, but only a few elite can sail over, is a metaphor for what, exactly?

Somtow doesn't explain.

[whybother]

Except for a few minor errors and one CRUCIAL one, it is a pretty good article.

It is good, I would like to read the same author write;;;

An Open Letter to the Yellows

<< That letter could Use Copy and Paste for much of it, from this letter!

If Somtow doesn't, within a few days, I will give it a go, right here.

Don't forget to mention the Joseph Solution.