Thai Court Approves Arrest Warrant Against Thaksin On Terrorism Charge

[tonywebster]

please list the countries that have Thaksin as a known 'terrorist'. With links and substantiated proof! Not, just the Nation or Bangkok Post

THAILAND! It only takes one.

proof, yeah right, I can't wait to see the evidence, like I said earlier kasit throwing his toys out of the pram and hearsay from the unelected government just won't wash in other countries. He will continue his travels until the UK gives him asylum. Don't forget other countries don't read the Nation, they base their information on facts rather than propaganda.

[tonywebster]

I haven't read all 150 + posts so I hope this hasn't been posted before. If you have not read it, I think it is a good read. Seems fair and balanced and points out some of the ins and outs of the current problem.... Read it if you want and let me see some of your opinionsl

g

http://www.somtow.org/2010/05/dont-blame-dan-rivers.html

there was an excellent piece (opinion) today in the better of the two English language papers

[waanjai-TV]

@Opalhort: The short answer is there is no internationally established definition: however, as an example the FBI summarises this as

"Terrorism is the unlawful use of force or violence against persons or property to intimidate or coerce a government, the civilian population, or any segment thereof, in furtherance of political or social objectives".

What happens now, when the countries in the West realize that within Thailand there is hardly any person belonging to the opposition not regarded a terrorist. Only the MPs of Phue Thai currently have parliamentary immunity. Nevertheless they are increasingly called terrorists.

Opposition in Thailand = They are all terrorists in a way.

[dom samui]

Could you put some sugar in the yoguhrt?

[pmugghc]

please list the countries that have Thaksin as a known 'terrorist'. With links and substantiated proof! Not, just the Nation or Bangkok Post

THAILAND! It only takes one.

proof, yeah right, I can't wait to see the evidence, like I said earlier kasit throwing his toys out of the pram and hearsay from the unelected government just won't wash in other countries. He will continue his travels until the UK gives him asylum. Don't forget other countries don't read the Nation, they base their information on facts rather than propaganda.

So here we go again with the old stupid "unelected government" argument. Thailand has a parliamentary system. The people elect MPs, the MPs elect the PM. The MPs has the right to switch parties. The same MPs that elected Somchai and Samak elected AV. Do you consider the Samak and Somchai governments unelected too ? Was Gordon Brown's government unelected too. as an example ?

[BlackJack]

now its getting interesting

[jdinasia]

please list the countries that have Thaksin as a known 'terrorist'. With links and substantiated proof! Not, just the Nation or Bangkok Post

THAILAND! It only takes one.

proof, yeah right, I can't wait to see the evidence, like I said earlier kasit throwing his toys out of the pram and hearsay from the unelected government just won't wash in other countries. He will continue his travels until the UK gives him asylum. Don't forget other countries don't read the Nation, they base their information on facts rather than propaganda.

I love it when Tony weighs in suggesting that there are no "facts". We know that there have been reports of other countries giving assistance with tracking financial transactions and communications. I am sure the facts were there (more fully the second time) when the request for a warrant was made from the courts.

[OzMick]

Basically a while back the Thai government screwed up Thaksins travel by playing with his passports and issuing arrest warrants on corruption cases and making him apoltical ho potato. Thaksin eventually got Montengrin citizenship which because of certain agreements with the EU made it easier for him to travel in certain EU countries again and because the nature of the crimes was only corruption meant most countries in the EU would turn a blind eye if he stayed quietish.

The issuance of a terrorism arrest warrant is another matter which raises the stakes. Terrorism is the ultimate scary buzzword in the west. Throw in that Thailand has alwys been a player albeit a minor one in the wests war on terror. Throw in the destruction of Bangkok landmarks in a dramatic manner which few if anyone thinks wasnt associated with the reds who are connected to who? Throw in the Thai government are indicating they regard Thaksin as a not just a major criminal but a terrorist and consider what any western government would think if a country harboured those they labelled as terrorists. It makes flying under the radar and being semi-ignored on a Montenagrin passport a lot harder than when it was on some corruption charges.

It will be interesting to see if the charges are honoured by the international community. Having Kasit presenting the case doesn't help with its objectivity. Maybe time for a change at the foreign ministry.

Im not convinced anyone is worried about charges being honoured. If it came ot a question of that it would be decdied by a local court and no doubt be appealed right to the top level by both sides which would be very time consuming and so probably best avoided by Thaksin which I would guess is one aim of this ie have him think I better avoid the countries with extradition treaties that would use due process ( Cambodia may remain safe on this one as they skipped due process). However, I would guess the main aim is to create a diplomatic hot potato again who most countries especially western ones would rather not have on their soil.

There is also a darker issue that Thailand knows that the last thing the west wants is any precedent of a friendly allied state providing harbour to someone another freindly allied state has labelled a terrorist, which brings us back to hot potatoes.

Maybe true. But creating a political hot potato with a terrorism charge is using a sledgehammer to crush a nut. You can't very well accuse the man of being a terrorist and leave it at that. It does have serious consequences. You can't just name someone a terrorist for local consumption. The western governments will now have to decide one way or another where they stand on this issue.

I can see that there if the government makes a good case, there is every chance that the governments overseas will agree and co-operate. The problem is, if the evidence and judgement doesn't clearly show connections between Thaksin and the red's and that the proof in the case doesn't prove completely that the Reds are terrorists by western, acceptable, definitions, the only judgement that a foreign government will take is that the case is political, and then the Thai government looks completely like an ass.

I don't think it would be particularly good for the government to have to come back from presenting its evidence overseas with its tail between its legs. It will serve nothing more than to embolden Thaksin, if the case is not accepted overseas.

OK, you are FM of country X, and Thailand presents you with the Arisman video (bring bottles), the Seh Daeng video (thaksin has appointed new leaders), a few clips from the stage (kill, kill, kill them all), a photo of BKK burning the day after and a list of torched buildings, and maybe some cash flow diagrams. Enough, or not? Extradition will be a long, time consuming affair tying up courts for months - wouldn't be easier to say "Visa Refused"?

[ratcatcher]

Trust me, Thaksin tonight will fly via private jet to Argentina and go to the surgeons there and get a sex change and a complete identity change and will walk through Thai customs in 1 month, smile at the immigration and kiss Thai soil.

I am not being funny here. This could very much actually happen but maybe not a khathoye, just a complete surgical over haul and a new passport.

[misterjag]

Thaksin certainly knew about the coordinated fire attacks. The terrorist label is warranted. Will probably restrict his movements, but he will not set foot on Thai soil again, during his lifetime, that is a certainty.

If you suspect a crime is going to occur, are you legally obligated to call the police? I don't think so.

Thaksin may be many things but I don't think he's dumb enough to involve himself in planning arson or violent attacks. He didn't want to be branded a terrorist and face extradition.

Edited May 25, 2010 by misterjag

[givenall]

A couple of terrorists

One down one to go

[esprit]

The US has put a price on Bin Ladens'head. Perhaps Thailand should do the same with this convict now that he is wanted on terroism charges. A US $ 1,000,000 should do nicely to ensure he gets his just reward.

[A_Traveller]

Thaksin certainly knew about the coordinated fire attacks. The terrorist label is warranted. Will probably restrict his movements, but he will not set foot on Thai soil again, during his lifetime, that is a certainty.

If you suspect a crime is going to occur, are you legally obligated to call the police? I don't think so. Pardon, under most jurisdictions it is the duty of any citizen, who has reason to believe a crime is to be committed to alert the authorities. Indeed failure so to do can lead to charges being brought.

Thaksin may be many things but I don't think he's dumb enough to involve himself in planning arson or violent attacks. He didn't want to be branded a terrorist and face extradition.However if his expectation was that the government would fold, maybe he thought such extreme measures would force just such a failure, and he could arrive riding his white private plane as saviour. Tragically, it's not so out of character for him

Regards

[OzMick]

Maybe Montenegro can seize the terrorist's in country assets. That might make it worthwhile for them.

Shouldnt there be a trial and conviction before he is hung, drawn and quartered, it is this mentality that will make it difficult for any country with a good rule of law to extradite him, found guilty before he is even tried, clearly politically motivated and I can see the UK now opening their doors for him.

They won't give him a visa when he has corruption charges, but they'll give him one now that he is charged with terrorism. Your redness is so deep that you are a maroon!

[ozzieman05]

please list the countries that have Thaksin as a known 'terrorist'. With links and substantiated proof! Not, just the Nation or Bangkok Post

What are you talking about? The arrest warrant is about 3 hours old. The ink hasn't even finished drying and you are talking about other nations recognizing it. Really? Is this the argument you intend you use?

My friend after reading this post

You Have had way to much coffee

Caffine is having an effect on you

[ozzieman05]

It hardly matters whether Thanksin is or isn't extradited. The Red Shirt movement will grow in strength and eventually their demands will need to be accommodated.

How can any one accommmodate their demands

They keep changing, so no one knows what they want

[way2muchcoffee]

please list the countries that have Thaksin as a known 'terrorist'. With links and substantiated proof! Not, just the Nation or Bangkok Post

What are you talking about? The arrest warrant is about 3 hours old. The ink hasn't even finished drying and you are talking about other nations recognizing it. Really? Is this the argument you intend you use?

My friend after reading this post

You Have had way to much coffee

Caffine is having an effect on you

I don't follow. Perhaps you could explain your comments....

[ozzieman05]

Maybe Montenegro can seize the terrorist's in country assets. That might make it worthwhile for them.

Shouldnt there be a trial and conviction before he is hung, drawn and quartered, it is this mentality that will make it difficult for any country with a good rule of law to extradite him, found guilty before he is even tried, clearly politically motivated and I can see the UK now opening their doors for him.

No need. The (yellow) people have decided. He is 100% guilty.

That must be quite upsetting for someone cheering on the burning of Bangkok.

Thai wife thinks he;s guilty and she has been wearing a brown shirt all day

nearer to red than yellow

what has the colour got to do with it

An Australia today was arrested today in red, it seems a short time ago he was photographed demonstrating wearing yellow

Oh so I see, it depends who's paying the money

[OzMick]

Maybe Montenegro can seize the terrorist's in country assets. That might make it worthwhile for them.

Shouldnt there be a trial and conviction before he is hung, drawn and quartered, it is this mentality that will make it difficult for any country with a good rule of law to extradite him, found guilty before he is even tried, clearly politically motivated and I can see the UK now opening their doors for him.

No need. The (yellow) people have decided. He is 100% guilty.

Trial by Thai Judges would be trial by payment

If they are serious they would have to hand him over to The Hague ?

Your 1st statement is clearly libelous. I would not like to try to defend it in a Thai court.

[gl9999]

@Opalhort: The short answer is there is no internationally established definition: however, as an example the FBI summarises this as

"Terrorism is the unlawful use of force or violence against persons or property to intimidate or coerce a government, the civilian population, or any segment thereof, in furtherance of political or social objectives".

What happens now, when the countries in the West realize that within Thailand there is hardly any person belonging to the opposition not regarded a terrorist. Only the MPs of Phue Thai currently have parliamentary immunity. Nevertheless they are increasingly called terrorists.

Opposition in Thailand = They are all terrorists in a way.

Yeah I think using what you've written, burning down buildings, firing M79 grenades at civilians and property would make the leaders of the Red Shirts terrorists.

It's not about being an opposition to the government. It's about blowing shit up.

[ozzieman05]

please list the countries that have Thaksin as a known 'terrorist'. With links and substantiated proof! Not, just the Nation or Bangkok Post

THAILAND! It only takes one.

proof, yeah right, I can't wait to see the evidence, like I said earlier kasit throwing his toys out of the pram and hearsay from the unelected government just won't wash in other countries. He will continue his travels until the UK gives him asylum. Don't forget other countries don't read the Nation, they base their information on facts rather than propaganda.

Okay Fact 1

Thaskin has been declared a Terrorist,

allow him to travel with you at your own risk

You do not need a government or court in another country to do a thing

Insurance companies have the last right of say

If a known terrorist is travelling known on a plane, this is a breach of international travel risk, and the plane is not covered by insurance

Immigration in most countries will also not allow an alien to enter a country if they are know to be classified as a terrorist

You have to first get into the country for a court to have any juristriction

well the proof will be in the future

so lets wait and see

[Thai at Heart]

OK, you are FM of country X, and Thailand presents you with the Arisman video (bring bottles), the Seh Daeng video (thaksin has appointed new leaders), a few clips from the stage (kill, kill, kill them all), a photo of BKK burning the day after and a list of torched buildings, and maybe some cash flow diagrams. Enough, or not? Extradition will be a long, time consuming affair tying up courts for months - wouldn't be easier to say "Visa Refused"?

This isn't about proving that the reds are terrorists, this is about proving first of all that Thaksin funded it, secondly that he was in control of it. This has to go further than TV clips. It needs actual proof of bank transfers, phone recordings, taped private conversations.

The problem with visa refusal is that that is not how the western world handles terrorists. If the Thai government can PROVE absolutely that Thaksin is a terrorist (in the same vein of how the West considers Al Quaeda) I have no doubt that he will be caught quite quickly somewhere and sent back.

The world doesn't tolerate people being tarred as terrorists just to satisfy local politics. The case will either be proved or not, and the governments of the world will find it difficult to explain, oh Thaksin, he was only a minor terrorist, so we will just refuse him a visa. The developed world doesn't selectively tar and chase named terrorists. They are all fair game.

Lest we forget the anomalies that occur in proving such things vis a vis the IRA, Gerry Adams and Ted Kennedy.

I just saw the BBC's line on it.

"The courts in Thailand have today approved a warrant for Thaksin Shinawatra on terrorism charges. blablabla."

"He is a former Prime Minister who was ousted in 200? by a military coup."

So the Thai government has a bit of a hill to climb to prove that these charges are not politically biased.

[ozzieman05]

please list the countries that have Thaksin as a known 'terrorist'. With links and substantiated proof! Not, just the Nation or Bangkok Post

What are you talking about? The arrest warrant is about 3 hours old. The ink hasn't even finished drying and you are talking about other nations recognizing it. Really? Is this the argument you intend you use?

My friend after reading this post

You Have had way to much coffee

Caffine is having an effect on you

I don't follow. Perhaps you could explain your comments....

what we want to say to you

would maybe get us suspended

so play alone and drink plenty of coffee

[ozzieman05]

Thaksin certainly knew about the coordinated fire attacks. The terrorist label is warranted. Will probably restrict his movements, but he will not set foot on Thai soil again, during his lifetime, that is a certainty.

If you suspect a crime is going to occur, are you legally obligated to call the police? I don't think so.

Thaksin may be many things but I don't think he's dumb enough to involve himself in planning arson or violent attacks. He didn't want to be branded a terrorist and face extradition.

well now it seems he was not as smart as you thought

[animatic]

Looks like it just made CNN Headline News.

They are just trying to calm the squeeky nerves that have raised by their reporting of the conflict.

I like this quote from the lawyer..

"The military-backed Abhisit regime has perverted justice through the laying of a charge that violates logic, law and any claim of hopes for reconciliation," said attorney Robert Amsterdam.

How does it violate law Mr. Dam?

Ignoring the fact Thaksin had a military backed government,

for most 95% of his LEGAL: term in office. When he went extra legal

and tried to change the Army lists as an expired Caretaker PM,

then he lost the Army backing.... The guy even fibs to his own lawyer.

Edited May 25, 2010 by animatic

[way2muchcoffee]

[

what we want to say to you

would maybe get us suspended

so play alone and drink plenty of coffee

That's twice you've tried to bait me and I still have no sense of what your objection is.

jucel was asking for a link showing that Thaksin is on an international terrorist watch list.

I think that such a link would not exist yet. I believe it would take more than a few hours from the time Thailand issues an arrest warrant before Thaksin's name would appear on published international terrorist watch lists.

What is so offensive in this idea that you can't speak your mind for fear of suspension from the forum?

Edited May 25, 2010 by way2muchcoffee

[chantorn]

Kasit should instruct the Foreign Ministry to break relation with France, if the French does not deliver Thaksin to Thailand within 24 hours.

France is harboring a known Thai Fugitives and International Terrorist ON PURPOSE. DSI and CRES can confirm these.

[agord]

@Opalhort: The short answer is there is no internationally established definition: however, as an example the FBI summarises this as

"Terrorism is the unlawful use of force or violence against persons or property to intimidate or coerce a government, the civilian population, or any segment thereof, in furtherance of political or social objectives".

Regards

yes, this about sums up the PAD when taking over the 'only' international airport in a major tourism country in high season. Well done for your observation!

BTW b4 anyone says phuket and chaing mai are int!! think again!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Did you know the PAD takeover cost MORE yes MORE in dollars to the economy than the red's protest!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Why would we have to think again? Phuket and Chiang Mai are Intl. airports You do know what International means right? also genious I think we will wait on the final total since it's going to take tourism a long time to rebound. Talking with some friends today who are GMs for major hotels in BKK they estimate it will take 3-4 months (if nothing else happens) for tourism to even begin to recover from this disaster. dream on little dreamer!

[chantorn]

@Opalhort: The short answer is there is no internationally established definition: however, as an example the FBI summarises this as

"Terrorism is the unlawful use of force or violence against persons or property to intimidate or coerce a government, the civilian population, or any segment thereof, in furtherance of political or social objectives".

Regards

yes, this about sums up the PAD when taking over the 'only' international airport in a major tourism country in high season. Well done for your observation!

BTW b4 anyone says phuket and chaing mai are int!! think again!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Did you know the PAD takeover cost MORE yes MORE in dollars to the economy than the red's protest!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Why would we have to think again? Phuket and Chiang Mai are Intl. airports You do know what International means right? also genious I think we will wait on the final total since it's going to take tourism a long time to rebound. Talking with some friends today who are GMs for major hotels in BKK they estimate it will take 3-4 months (if nothing else happens) for tourism to even begin to recover from this disaster. dream on little dreamer!

Were Kasit actually at the airport during the Yellow protest?

I don't think so.

I have not seen any photo proof.

[agord]

It hardly matters whether Thanksin is or isn't extradited. The Red Shirt movement will grow in strength and eventually their demands will need to be accommodated.

Sure they took a big step towards that last week when they burnt down 30+ buildings and left thousands of working class BKK people out of work! Who wouldn't want to back that kind of movement? All of Thailand is thrilled with the way they handled themsleves haven't you seen the praise they are getting Will grow in strenth it seems to have self destructed! where do you people come from?