Thaksin - Will Interpol Act?

[chantorn]

If Interpol act then it will show them to be supporting and condoning an illegitimate government.

Therefore, it would be in Interpol's best interest to ignore the request of the Thai government(?).

Where is the proof of Thaksin's terrorist activities? Giving a few non committal sermons to the folks back home cannot be seen as a blatant terrorist activity.

What about all those religious people, both in the US and the UK who shout and scream for the downfall of the wicked leaders in the west, they are left alone.

Paper trails would be evidence of Thaksin giving money to the reds, but there are no paper trails, therefore no evidence.

Look at Thaksin's sermons to the faithful, they are fiery but he draws back from actually saying anything of a terroristic nature. Has anyone seen him standing in front the camera with a gun in one hand and a grenade in the other calling on people to kill the Democrat pigs?

Without solid proof, its all hearsay and smoke, cooked up by politicians in Bangkok. Yes, we all know what he's up to and was doing, but you got to have solid proof, without evidence there's nothing but hot air and stupid, endless debates.

I am sure there is proof.

Else Thai court will not approve DSI request.

Thai court have to be fair too, not just DSI, CRES & Mark.

You maybe sure but I think that all tracks have been cleverly covered especially after the share case.

Thai courts get their orders from higher up in the food chain, so the government will just simply lean on the judge to cooperate.

Thai court fair, well yes, when you pay the price.

How can Thai court be not fair.

They don't just read out a simple guilty/innocent verdict.

When they read out a verdict, they also spend out 8 to 10 hours reading out the reason behind, and all the evident that lead to a verdict.

LIVE on free TV.

So if they are not fair, the Thai people would have already point it out.

Either that, or you are saying that NO Thai people is smart enought to understand the reason behind, and all the evident that lead to a verdict?

[steffi]

Can people clarify what financial assistance he's been known to give the red shirts? There's the classic youtube video of him offering money for them to participate in the demonstrations now?

Thailand has come the laughing stock of the western world. Charging him as a terrorist become he made speeches to the Red Shirts against the government is not terrorisms.

Making speeches is not the reason for charging him, it's the contents of those speeches.

I have listen to the speech that DSI submitted to the court. He say something like "everybody to gather at the provincial hall". Never has he say burn them down. This is implied and assumed by DSI and Thai court.

All his video link clips are in youtube. Please show me one that Thaksin say "burn it", "loot it" or "destroy it" etc.

Actually he's charged as a terrorists partially because of the contents of his speeches, partially because of financing terrorists (some UDD leaders, late Seh Daeng) and terrorists acts (M79's, MiB, torching government buildings) Plus a few more things. Don't try to pin me down on a single word. For that you should join the censure debate next week.

[rubl]

1. And how many assault troops and police were sent to evict them from the airport?

2. How many of them were shot and killed by Government snipers?

3. How many of them were asassinated whilst giving an interview to a reporter?

4. How is it that one of their number is now the Thai Foreign Minister?

5. How many of them have been gaoled? Why did they all get immediate bail?

Ad 1. the then current government didn't sent in troops.

Ad 2. none, but not really objective question, more like asking how many are still beating their wife.

Ad 3. see 2.

Ad 4. He was nominated.

Ad 5. Their process is still in progress. They got bail as the court didn't judge them to flee the country like some do.

Edited May 27, 2010 by rubl

[chantorn]

Can people clarify what financial assistance he's been known to give the red shirts? There's the classic youtube video of him offering money for them to participate in the demonstrations now?

It is alleged that he give out hundred of millions for the poor people ti sit in Bangkok.

Kind of Robin Hood of Thailand.

I don't know who to believe.

[rabo]

Its still a bit early in the game to be making any claims, no? for starters.. There has been nothing released regarding the financial transactions to the red shirt leadership, but its pretty much gauranteed that several groups have made such transactions, unless you honestly believe that the group was self supporting ... As any semi consious person could draw the conclusion that thaksin was the majority supporter, but at this point in time its all speculation. But the financiers will be exposed in the weeks to come....

We all know the score here, and I for one am not saying that Thaksin did not give money to the boys in Bangkok, we know he did but the government has to prove it, the prosecution needs real evidence but hearsay is not evidence, well, certainly not in a court of law in the west.

Interpol in their wisdom will take all this into account before reaching a decision, and will most certainly see that the charge of terrorism is not only politically motivated but a way to get Thaksin. They will see the government here is "using" the "law" simply as a means to capture their political rival.

The knowledge and information available at TV is astounding, don't know why I didn't join earlier.

On a technical point, I think "politically motivated" implies that the accused did not commit the crime in question and the charge is bogus. It does not mean the accused committed the crime while he was involved in a political squabble. Burning down major cities is not a legal response to a political problem.

[rubl]

Actually he's charged as a terrorists partially because of the contents of his speeches, partially because of financing terrorists (some UDD leaders, late Seh Daeng) and terrorists acts (M79's, MiB, torching government buildings) Plus a few more things. Don't try to pin me down on a single word. For that you should join the censure debate next week.

Can people clarify what financial assistance he's been known to give the red shirts? There's the classic youtube video of him offering money for them to participate in the demonstrations now?

I think it was in audio, or tweet, or the like that he acknowledged helping his supporters out a bit. No video. If you want details, google yourself.

[chantorn]

Actually he's charged as a terrorists partially because of the contents of his speeches, partially because of financing terrorists (some UDD leaders, late Seh Daeng) and terrorists acts (M79's, MiB, torching government buildings) Plus a few more things. Don't try to pin me down on a single word. For that you should join the censure debate next week.

Can people clarify what financial assistance he's been known to give the red shirts? There's the classic youtube video of him offering money for them to participate in the demonstrations now?

I think it was in audio, or tweet, or the like that he acknowledged helping his supporters out a bit. No video. If you want details, google yourself.

Many people donate to the Red-shirt.

Including Farang.

So they can also be arrested for being a terrorist?

[termad]

I see Tony is trying to play the semantics game on page one. In Thailand the official reading of the charges and indictment happen when the suspect is taken into the court for the first time. The suspect must be present.

The warrant itself with substatiating evidence listed (not presented) is enough for extradition for trial. Tony is trying to make a case for the extradition of a convicted fugitive and this is not the case. The matter at hand is the extradition of a wanted criminal. Any state can request that and it does NOT require more than the warrant.

Interpol will be in a tricky situation should they fail to work with the Kingdom's government in this case as there is the possibility that the Kingdom will refuse to aid them in the future. Granted, Interpol has screwed up several cases here in Thailand in recent history and has a bit less credibility due to that.

They may chose (Interpol) not to help in facilitating an arrest but I rather doubt that. Helping with extradition? Who knows if the Kingdom actually WANTS Thaksin extradited to Thailand?

I'm sure that Interpol would be quaking in their boots if Thailand threatened not to aid them anymore!

Get real. Thailand has no clout in the world whatsoever

Edited May 27, 2010 by termad

[Publicus]

Its still a bit early in the game to be making any claims, no? for starters.. There has been nothing released regarding the financial transactions to the red shirt leadership, but its pretty much gauranteed that several groups have made such transactions, unless you honestly believe that the group was self supporting ... As any semi consious person could draw the conclusion that thaksin was the majority supporter, but at this point in time its all speculation. But the financiers will be exposed in the weeks to come....

We all know the score here, and I for one am not saying that Thaksin did not give money to the boys in Bangkok, we know he did but the government has to prove it, the prosecution needs real evidence but hearsay is not evidence, well, certainly not in a court of law in the west.

Interpol in their wisdom will take all this into account before reaching a decision, and will most certainly see that the charge of terrorism is not only politically motivated but a way to get Thaksin. They will see the government here is "using" the "law" simply as a means to capture their political rival.

The government presenting the money trail, which will have twists and turns but be clearly detectable, should be more than enuff for Interpol to act. The starting point of the money is Thaksin, the ultimate destination of the money is the bank accounts of Red Shirts. Onshore or offshore the money is detectable.

All the government really wants to establish is the fact of the money flow to make clear to everyone Thaksin is a torch and that Thaksin is the guy swinging the wrecking ball around Bangkok. After that who cares if Thaksin the terrorist spends the next ten years fighting extradition? The country in the meantime can refocus on getting itself in order.  

[termad]

1. And how many assault troops and police were sent to evict them from the airport?

2. How many of them were shot and killed by Government snipers?

3. How many of them were asassinated whilst giving an interview to a reporter?

4. How is it that one of their number is now the Thai Foreign Minister?

5. How many of them have been gaoled? Why did they all get immediate bail?

Ad 1. the then current government didn't sent in troops.

Ad 2. none, but not really objective question, more like asking how many are still beating their wife.

Ad 3. see 2.

Ad 4. He was nominated.

Ad 5. Their process is still in progress. They got bail as the court didn't judge them to flee the country like some do.

What an absolute load of tosh!

[rabo]

I see Tony is trying to play the semantics game on page one. In Thailand the official reading of the charges and indictment happen when the suspect is taken into the court for the first time. The suspect must be present.

The warrant itself with substatiating evidence listed (not presented) is enough for extradition for trial. Tony is trying to make a case for the extradition of a convicted fugitive and this is not the case. The matter at hand is the extradition of a wanted criminal. Any state can request that and it does NOT require more than the warrant.

Interpol will be in a tricky situation should they fail to work with the Kingdom's government in this case as there is the possibility that the Kingdom will refuse to aid them in the future. Granted, Interpol has screwed up several cases here in Thailand in recent history and has a bit less credibility due to that.

They may chose (Interpol) not to help in facilitating an arrest but I rather doubt that. Helping with extradition? Who knows if the Kingdom actually WANTS Thaksin extradited to Thailand?

I'm sure that Interpol would be quaking in their boots if Thailand threatened not to aid them anymore!

Get real. Thailand has no clout in the world whatsoever

Quite the contrary, I would guess they have more pull than most because Thailand is a favorite destination for the criminal minded and others on the run. They also have a good record of cooperation.

[mrtoad]

Rubi if I am pissing you off. GOOD, made my day.

If pissing me off makes your day, you shouldn't be in this forum. But please have the decency to quote my name correctly "RUBL" !

That's not your name - that is your made up anonymous moniker. Who care's if its misspelled

Actually it's the first two letters of my first name combined with the first two of my family name. So I care

Rupert???

[termad]

I see Tony is trying to play the semantics game on page one. In Thailand the official reading of the charges and indictment happen when the suspect is taken into the court for the first time. The suspect must be present.

The warrant itself with substatiating evidence listed (not presented) is enough for extradition for trial. Tony is trying to make a case for the extradition of a convicted fugitive and this is not the case. The matter at hand is the extradition of a wanted criminal. Any state can request that and it does NOT require more than the warrant.

Interpol will be in a tricky situation should they fail to work with the Kingdom's government in this case as there is the possibility that the Kingdom will refuse to aid them in the future. Granted, Interpol has screwed up several cases here in Thailand in recent history and has a bit less credibility due to that.

They may chose (Interpol) not to help in facilitating an arrest but I rather doubt that. Helping with extradition? Who knows if the Kingdom actually WANTS Thaksin extradited to Thailand?

I'm sure that Interpol would be quaking in their boots if Thailand threatened not to aid them anymore!

Get real. Thailand has no clout in the world whatsoever

Quite the contrary, I would guess they have more pull than most because Thailand is a favorite destination for the criminal minded and others on the run. They also have a good record of cooperation.

You're living in dreamworld. Get back to the real world where Thailand does what it's politely asked to by the USA and the EU.

There's no way they can threaten Interpol or any other Western financed international organisation.

[Hawk]

The knowledge and information available at TV is astounding, don't know why I didn't join earlier.

On a technical point, I think "politically motivated" implies that the accused did not commit the crime in question and the charge is bogus. It does not mean the accused committed the crime while he was involved in a political squabble. Burning down major cities is not a legal response to a political problem.

Yes, I also find the acknowledge here astounding and wished I had joined before leaving school.

Did anyone see Thaksin running around Bangkok with a gallon of gas and a box of matches?

[rubl]

Actually he's charged as a terrorists partially because of the contents of his speeches, partially because of financing terrorists (some UDD leaders, late Seh Daeng) and terrorists acts (M79's, MiB, torching government buildings) Plus a few more things. Don't try to pin me down on a single word. For that you should join the censure debate next week.

Can people clarify what financial assistance he's been known to give the red shirts? There's the classic youtube video of him offering money for them to participate in the demonstrations now?

I think it was in audio, or tweet, or the like that he acknowledged helping his supporters out a bit. No video. If you want details, google yourself.

Many people donate to the Red-shirt. Including Farang. So they can also be arrested for being a terrorist?

As I said before don't pin me down on a single word. The financial support IN COMBINATION with other actions (no don't ask) led to the charge. Anyone is welcome to support real red-shirts who have a love of democracy. Just don't make accepting a donation an obligation to do certain things, like join a protest. A donation should have no strings attached.

[jdinasia]

I see Tony is trying to play the semantics game on page one. In Thailand the official reading of the charges and indictment happen when the suspect is taken into the court for the first time. The suspect must be present.

The warrant itself with substatiating evidence listed (not presented) is enough for extradition for trial. Tony is trying to make a case for the extradition of a convicted fugitive and this is not the case. The matter at hand is the extradition of a wanted criminal. Any state can request that and it does NOT require more than the warrant.

Interpol will be in a tricky situation should they fail to work with the Kingdom's government in this case as there is the possibility that the Kingdom will refuse to aid them in the future. Granted, Interpol has screwed up several cases here in Thailand in recent history and has a bit less credibility due to that.

They may chose (Interpol) not to help in facilitating an arrest but I rather doubt that. Helping with extradition? Who knows if the Kingdom actually WANTS Thaksin extradited to Thailand?

I'm sure that Interpol would be quaking in their boots if Thailand threatened not to aid them anymore!

Get real. Thailand has no clout in the world whatsoever

Quite the contrary, I would guess they have more pull than most because Thailand is a favorite destination for the criminal minded and others on the run. They also have a good record of cooperation.

That Interpol is working on cases inside Thailand is public knowledge. That Thailand has cooperated is common knowledge. That Termad is cherrypicking from the post of mine that he replied to is common knowledge. He addresses one point (arguably the weakest) to attempt to score a point.) Sadly, he fails even at that since the facts certainly do not support his arguent. One of the many reasons I only see his posts when someone quotes him!

[Hawk]

Hmmmm You start with a faulty argument.

The current government IS the legitimate government of the Kingdom of Thailand. Therefore your argument that it is in Interpols best interest to ignore the situation is not true. (EVERY government in the West has normal relations with Thailand. Not one calls the current government "illegitimate.")

You say there is no proof. How do you come about making this claim? That kills the rest of your arguments. The prrof or lack of proof certainly has not been presented to you or me. Enough proof has been presented to the court for them to submit a warrant for Thaksin on the charges of Terrorism. We don't know what that proof is or if it will be sufficient to gain extradition. We also do not know IF extradition really is the ultimate goal of the government.

No, I start with a correct argument, this government exists only because of the coup.

And the ultimate goal of the people now in charge is to silence Thaksin permanently.

[rubl]

The knowledge and information available at TV is astounding, don't know why I didn't join earlier.

On a technical point, I think "politically motivated" implies that the accused did not commit the crime in question and the charge is bogus. It does not mean the accused committed the crime while he was involved in a political squabble. Burning down major cities is not a legal response to a political problem.

Yes, I also find the acknowledge here astounding and wished I had joined before leaving school.

Did anyone see Thaksin running around Bangkok with a gallon of gas and a box of matches?

Yes! As it was dark it may have been a mask as many red-shirt had. minor detail

[Hawk]

The knowledge and information available at TV is astounding, don't know why I didn't join earlier.

On a technical point, I think "politically motivated" implies that the accused did not commit the crime in question and the charge is bogus. It does not mean the accused committed the crime while he was involved in a political squabble. Burning down major cities is not a legal response to a political problem.

Yes, I also find the acknowledge here astounding and wished I had joined before leaving school.

Did anyone see Thaksin running around Bangkok with a gallon of gas and a box of matches?

Yes! As it was dark it may have been a mask as many red-shirt had. minor detail

It may have also been an illusion, a trick of the light.

[rubl]

Hmmmm You start with a faulty argument.

The current government IS the legitimate government of the Kingdom of Thailand. Therefore your argument that it is in Interpols best interest to ignore the situation is not true. (EVERY government in the West has normal relations with Thailand. Not one calls the current government "illegitimate.")

You say there is no proof. How do you come about making this claim? That kills the rest of your arguments. The prrof or lack of proof certainly has not been presented to you or me. Enough proof has been presented to the court for them to submit a warrant for Thaksin on the charges of Terrorism. We don't know what that proof is or if it will be sufficient to gain extradition. We also do not know IF extradition really is the ultimate goal of the government.

No, I start with a correct argument, this government exists only because of the coup.

And the ultimate goal of the people now in charge is to silence Thaksin permanently.

If this government exists because of the coup, the two previous ones al well then (with PM's late K. Samak, K. Somchai). Furthermore K. Thaksin had his days, its now up to a new group to promote self-sufficiency, enpowerment of the rural poor without elite/'big people' holding their hands, etc.

[termad]

I see Tony is trying to play the semantics game on page one. In Thailand the official reading of the charges and indictment happen when the suspect is taken into the court for the first time. The suspect must be present.

The warrant itself with substatiating evidence listed (not presented) is enough for extradition for trial. Tony is trying to make a case for the extradition of a convicted fugitive and this is not the case. The matter at hand is the extradition of a wanted criminal. Any state can request that and it does NOT require more than the warrant.

Interpol will be in a tricky situation should they fail to work with the Kingdom's government in this case as there is the possibility that the Kingdom will refuse to aid them in the future. Granted, Interpol has screwed up several cases here in Thailand in recent history and has a bit less credibility due to that.

They may chose (Interpol) not to help in facilitating an arrest but I rather doubt that. Helping with extradition? Who knows if the Kingdom actually WANTS Thaksin extradited to Thailand?

I'm sure that Interpol would be quaking in their boots if Thailand threatened not to aid them anymore!

Get real. Thailand has no clout in the world whatsoever

Quite the contrary, I would guess they have more pull than most because Thailand is a favorite destination for the criminal minded and others on the run. They also have a good record of cooperation.

That Interpol is working on cases inside Thailand is public knowledge. That Thailand has cooperated is common knowledge. That Termad is cherrypicking from the post of mine that he replied to is common knowledge. He addresses one point (arguably the weakest) to attempt to score a point.) Sadly, he fails even at that since the facts certainly do not support his arguent. One of the many reasons I only see his posts when someone quotes him!

I have never heard that Interpol is working on cases in Thailand. Could you name a few of these cases?

The charges against Thaksin have been laid by Abhisit perhaps you would like to skip over to General Topics and read the post 'What Abhisit said about Samak's crack down in 2008.'

[rubl]

The knowledge and information available at TV is astounding, don't know why I didn't join earlier.

On a technical point, I think "politically motivated" implies that the accused did not commit the crime in question and the charge is bogus. It does not mean the accused committed the crime while he was involved in a political squabble. Burning down major cities is not a legal response to a political problem.

Yes, I also find the acknowledge here astounding and wished I had joined before leaving school.

Did anyone see Thaksin running around Bangkok with a gallon of gas and a box of matches?

Yes! As it was dark it may have been a mask as many red-shirt had. minor detail

It may have also been an illusion, a trick of the light.

No-one accused K. Thaksin of personally burning major cities down. Asking if some-one saw him is ignoring that, or just a question which suggest you shouldn't have left school.

[gemini81]

Glad we have so many experts on here that think they practially work for the gov't or interpol, and have the inside scoop.

[rixalex]

No, I start with a correct argument, this government exists only because of the coup.

Surayud government existed because of the coup. Abhisit government exists because of a general election in 2007 that was followed by the dissolving of the PPP and the subsequent shift in power.

[difos57]

The red shirts are a terrorist organization????? What about the Yellow shirts they are not?????? Who funded them????? Why aren't they charged. This is why Thailand is becoming the laughing stock of the world So one sided. This is why you will never have peace here.

The yellow shirts are in a minor league. When they withdrew from the airport they even cleaned up, apologised for the inconvenience caused. They even forgot to torch the lot. Then the red-shirts, they've got it pat down. Shooting M79's at innocent bystanders, police and troops, sowing hatred through their Peoples TV, torching their home of two months, looting, etc.

The yellow leaders are charges, have acknowledged the charge, granted bail, still in Thailand. You may complain about their case progressing soo slowly. Still who has details on the police crackdown in June/July 2008 when yellow-shirt died from faulty teargas canisters? Where the PM and Minister of Interior charged (late K. Samak and K. Chalerm) ?

Thank goodness they had the army backing them up so they could achieve 100% of their demands! Otherwise they would have been branded terrorists and sentenced to jail sentences immediately. By the way, what is all this crap about cleaning the airport and apologizing? I remember a huge clean-up bill and a lot of arrogance. Are you guys reading the Nation again?

Some more red shirt lies. The airport was to be delayed in opening at least three weeks if damage was done. The airport was opened the next day after the protest had ended and during that day, the yellows cleaned everything. The floors were cleaned, shiny and no garbage. What is the lies you are spewing about the airport not being cleaned? Where do you get your info from?

[jdinasia]

The knowledge and information available at TV is astounding, don't know why I didn't join earlier.

On a technical point, I think "politically motivated" implies that the accused did not commit the crime in question and the charge is bogus. It does not mean the accused committed the crime while he was involved in a political squabble. Burning down major cities is not a legal response to a political problem.

Yes, I also find the acknowledge here astounding and wished I had joined before leaving school.

Did anyone see Thaksin running around Bangkok with a gallon of gas and a box of matches?

Strawman argument --- To be guilty of Terrorism does not require you to be guilty of a particular act. The person that pays someone to kill someone is guilty of murder AND conspiracy to commit murder AND murder for hire, even though they didn't pull the trigger, burn down the building, or use the knife.

You keep harping on about evidence, there is plenty of supporting evidence for a trial. There may or may not be enough evidence for a conviction.

[rixalex]

Did anyone see Thaksin running around Bangkok with a gallon of gas and a box of matches?

Have you ever seen Bin Laden actually commiting an act of terrorism with his own hands? No? Guess that means he's not a terrorist either.

[termad]

No, I start with a correct argument, this government exists only because of the coup.

Surayud government existed because of the coup. Abhisit government exists because of a general election in 2007 that was followed by the dissolving of the PPP and the subsequent shift in power.

Abhisit Government exists because forty Phue Thai elected MPs were bought by the Elite/Military to give Abhisit enough votes to form a coalition government. The forty MPs then formed the Bhunjaithai party. The Bhumjaithai party has never stood for election but are the largest paretner of the coalition parliament.

[WAYNEandAEI]

Thailand has come the laughing stock of the western world. Charging him as a terrorist because he made speeches to the Red Shirts against the government is not terrorisms.

Funding and inciting terrorism may make him a terrorist

[rixalex]

Thank goodness they had the army backing them up so they could achieve 100% of their demands! Otherwise they would have been branded terrorists and sentenced to jail sentences immediately. By the way, what is all this crap about cleaning the airport and apologizing? I remember a huge clean-up bill and a lot of arrogance. Are you guys reading the Nation again?

Some more red shirt lies. The airport was to be delayed in opening at least three weeks if damage was done. The airport was opened the next day after the protest had ended and during that day, the yellows cleaned everything. The floors were cleaned, shiny and no garbage. What is the lies you are spewing about the airport not being cleaned? Where do you get your info from?

He is getting confused with Government House which was left in a mess. Even when the red-shirts have a valid argument they keep tripping themselves up with inaccuracies and mistruths.