Global Warming Threatens Thailand

[canuckamuck]

You are right about many things, unlike the skeptics who simply have no idea what they are talking about.

In fact, they are just posting nonsense designed to confuse readers.

I doubt that it is useful to respond to them.

Global warming and climate change are real.

There is no debate about it.

Now, back to the subject.

I find your observation about the oceans interesting as most people neglect it (except scientists working on the problem).

A major problem is the acidification of the oceans that is taking place.

It took 100,000 years for pH to be reduced the same amount it has been reduced over the past 50 years (think about that).

Lowering of pH leads to mass extinction events. Why? Complicated........short answer, because it negatively impacts the biochemistry of marine organism.

In particular, it can negatively impact and eventually kill diatoms, at the base of the marine food chain.

If that happens..........well, it is like a stack of dominoes being tipped.........the system crashes.

And every living thing above the lower part of the food chain suffers.

This is happening now because the oceans are absorbing massive amounts of CO2.

If the "crash" comes, the impact on food supply will be catastrophic.

The skeptics seem to love playing with fire!

Why do the warmists always need to say there is no debate while they are posting in a debate?

Is it because they prefer not to discuss it, lest they lose their blind faith?

Ocean acidification will likely be the next hyped up impending global catastrophe, and likely will rely on the same fuzzy logic that cooked up the warming angle. But hey get your research grants while you can, those Mercedes and beamers won't just buy themselves.

[Robby nz]

Have an argue over that one fellas

May be than the question will be asked `` What is the real truth about

climate change and can we spend the money on cleaning our waterways?

All of you out there across the globe who have fought so hard to tackle the

hideous enemy of our planet, namely carbon emissions, you know ....that

"Climate Change" or "Global Warming" thing....Well, I feel it is necessary

to inform you of some bad news. It really does pain me to have to bring you

this disappointing information.

Are you sitting down?

Okay, here's the bombshell. The current volcanic eruption going on in

Iceland, since its first spewing of volcanic ash has, in just FOUR DAYS,

NEGATED EVERY SINGLE EFFORT you have made in the past five years to control

CO2 emissions on our planet.

Of course you know about this evil carbon dioxide that we are trying to

suppress - it's that vital chemical compound that every plant requires to

live and grow and to synthesise into oxygen for us humans and all animal

life.

I know, I know.... (group hug)...it's very disheartening to realise that all

of the carbon emission savings you have accomplished while suffering the

inconvenience and expense of: driving Prius hybrids, buying fabric grocery

bags, sitting up till midnight to finish your kid's "The Green Revolution"

science project, throwing out all of your non-green cleaning supplies, using

only two squares of toilet paper, putting a brick in your toilet tank

reservoir, selling your SUV and speedboat, vacationing at home instead of

Bali, nearly getting hit every day on your bicycle, replacing all of your $1

light bulbs with $10 light bulbs ...well, all of those things you have done

have all gone down the tube in just four days.

The volcanic ash emitted into the Earth's atmosphere in just four days -

yes, FOUR DAYS ONLY - by that volcano in Iceland, has totally erased every

single effort you have made to reduce the evil beast, carbon. And there are

around 200 active volcanoes on the planet spewing out this crud any one time

- EVERY DAY.

Oh, I don't really want to rain on your parade too much, but I should

mention that when the volcano Mt Pinatubo erupted in the Philippines in

1991, it spewed out more greenhouse gases into the atmosphere than the

entire human race had emitted in its entire 40 MILLION YEARS on earth. Yes

folks, Mt Pinatubo was active for over one year - think about it.

Of course I shouldn't spoil this touchy-feely tree-hugging moment and

mention the effect of solar and cosmic activity and the well recognised 800

year global heating and cooling cycle, which keep happening, despite our

completely insignificant efforts to affect climate change.

I'm so sorry. And I do wish I had a silver lining to this volcanic ash cloud

but the fact of the matter is that the bush fire season across the western

USA and Australia this year alone will negate your efforts to reduce carbon

in our world for the next two to three years. And it happens every year.

Just remember that your government just tried to impose a whopping carbon

tax on you on the basis of the bogus "human-caused" climate change scenario.

Hey, isn't it interesting how they don't mention "Global Warming" any more,

but just "Climate Change" - you know why? It's because the planet has COOLED

by 0.7 degrees in the past century and these global warming bullshit artists

got caught with their pants down.

And just keep in mind that if that same government is re-elected, you will

have an Emissions Trading Scheme - that whopping new tax - imposed on you,

that will achieve absolutely nothing except make you poorer. It won't stop

any volcanoes from erupting, that's for sure.

But hey, grab a Coke, give the world a hug and have a nice day!

[Donnyboy]

nice post Robby, kiwis back home had the ETS tax imposed on them last week. Wait for the price rises to come on soon.

“Big governments love carbon taxes. They promise a bountiful political dividend of tax receipts and green votes.

“The tax harvest will feed the climate change industry, provide eternal corporate welfare for alternate energy speculators, and allow politicians to buy votes with handouts for favoured mendicants.

“But a carbon tax will have zero beneficial effect on earth’s temperature.

My link

Edited July 9, 2010 by Donnyboy

[sarahsbloke]

I'm always amazed that the AGW alarmists know nothing about the science.

I asked what their opinion was on several aspects of sea level change ...... no reply, it's religion, the voices in their heads tell them the truth.

[Robby nz]

Glad I'm outa there Donny.

Went back last Xmas and wondered which was supposed to be the 3rd world country.

[teatree]

'Never let a serious crisis go to waste' - Rahm Emanuel White House Chief of Staff

Expect the current crisis in the Gulf of Mexico not to be wasted and the cap™/carbon tax to be revived.

Edited July 9, 2010 by teatree

[RickBradford]

I asked what their opinion was on several aspects of sea level change ...... no reply, it's religion, the voices in their heads tell them the truth.

You should have asked them about earthquakes ... this recently from a newspaper in the US:

"With the recent, devastating earthquake in Haiti, quickly followed by others in Baja California, Sumatra, Chile and even more recently along the California-Mexican border, can there still be any doubt about global warming? With these events even the most jaded skeptic will have to admit that global warming is a real and genuine menace."Awake before it is too late. Unless we take action now the big one is just around the corner. Don't doubt global warming.

Yup, that's the AGW crowd for you. Once these drooling brain donors realize that their global warming scam is busted, they will fabricate new scares - they tried 'ocean acidification', but nobody bought that one, so their latest effort is 'biodiversity loss', which we can expect to hear a lot more nonsense about in the near future.

[Globalhot]

Seven bumbling, unfacile ramplings in arow. That must be some sort of record.

If there are any posters out there who understand science and are interested in this important topic, please give us your opinion.

Thanks.

[RickBradford]

If there are any posters out there who understand science and are interested in this important topic, please give us your opinion.

When you say 'us', JR, I assume you mean you and the six other usernames you've hidden behind since the New Year. Seven bumbling, unfacile users in arow [sic]. That must be some sort of record.

Edited July 10, 2010 by RickBradford

[whybother]

I asked what their opinion was on several aspects of sea level change ...... no reply, it's religion, the voices in their heads tell them the truth.

You should have asked them about earthquakes ... this recently from a newspaper in the US:

"With the recent, devastating earthquake in Haiti, quickly followed by others in Baja California, Sumatra, Chile and even more recently along the California-Mexican border, can there still be any doubt about global warming? With these events even the most jaded skeptic will have to admit that global warming is a real and genuine menace."Awake before it is too late. Unless we take action now the big one is just around the corner. Don't doubt global warming.

Yup, that's the AGW crowd for you. Once these drooling brain donors realize that their global warming scam is busted, they will fabricate new scares - they tried 'ocean acidification', but nobody bought that one, so their latest effort is 'biodiversity loss', which we can expect to hear a lot more nonsense about in the near future.

The "earthquakes caused by global warming" theory is an interesting issue.

Now, whether the glaciers are melting because of man-made global warming, or because of other issues is definitely debatable.

Putting 'global warming' aside for a minute, it's clear that glaciers are melting at a higher rate than they are forming.

Now, given most glaciers are near the poles, what happens when they melt is that the water flows from the poles to the equator (or from above sea level at the poles, to sea level which spreads around the globe).

The weight of this water is enormous. So when the glaciers melt, a huge amount of weight is moving from specific areas and spreading around the world.

This is changing the pressure on the earths crust causing movements which means earth quakes.

The movement of the water also means that the sea level is "dropping" in some areas due to the lifting of the land because of less glacial weight.

[Globalhot]

If there are any posters out there who understand science and are interested in this important topic, please give us your opinion.

When you say 'us', JR, I assume you mean you and the six other usernames you've hidden behind since the New Year. Seven bumbling, unfacile users in arow [sic]. That must be some sort of record.

JR? Are you crazy? Who or what is JR? Maybe I should call you, Bobbie.Obviously, you have nothing to say about the topic.

[RickBradford]

Actually, I have plenty to say about the subject.

Like this newly-published paper, which lays to rest the fallacy that CO2 drives the climate:

A null hypothesis for CO2 Author: Roy Clark, Ph.D

"The effects on surface temperature of small changes in the solar constant caused by the sunspot cycle and small increases in downward long wave infrared (LWIR) flux due to a 100 ppm increase in atmospheric CO2 concentration are considered in detail. The changes in the solar constant are sufficient to change ocean temperatures and alter the Earth's climate. The surface temperature changes produced by an increase in downward LWIR flux are too small to be measured and cannot cause climate change. The assumptions underlying the use of radiative forcing in climate models are shown to be invalid. A null hypothesis for CO2 is proposed that it is impossible to show that changes in CO2 concentration have caused any climate change, at least since the current composition of the atmosphere was set by ocean photosynthesis about one billion years ago.

Energy & Environment, Issue Volume 21, Number 4 / August 2010

[whybother]

<snip>

Hey, isn't it interesting how they don't mention "Global Warming" any more,

but just "Climate Change" - you know why? It's because the planet has COOLED

by 0.7 degrees in the past century and these global warming bullshit artists

got caught with their pants down.

<snip>

I won't ask where you got this information from since it seems that you copied it straight out of Facebook: http://www.facebook....899&topic=21598

But I'd like to know anywhere reputable that says the earth has cooled in the last century.

Edited July 10, 2010 by whybother

[Thai at Heart]

Wake up...........smell the coffee.............try reading the actual scientific literature on the subject instead of "online comic books" filled with pseudo-scientific crap.

I presume you refer to all the research done at the University of East Anglia on which many of the supposedly proven conclusions about global warming were based. Anyone dare to talk about the "hockey stick" where the world is entering a death spiral. This was trumpeted for years as conclusive evidence and it is complete BULLSHIT.

There is absolutely NO conclusive evidence about any of it. What evidence they had does not stand up to scientific peer review.

They are more than free to try and prove it all over again, and if it stands up to review, we can make our minds up all over again.

[RickBradford]

The best estimates of the past century indicate a total warming of around 0.4 degrees C (=0.7 degrees F), tied very closely to solar cycles.

Given the sun's current behaviour, scientists are predicting significant cooling over the next 20 to 30 years -- we've already had 8 years of cooling

Edited July 10, 2010 by RickBradford

[Robby nz]

<snip>

Hey, isn't it interesting how they don't mention "Global Warming" any more,

but just "Climate Change" - you know why? It's because the planet has COOLED

by 0.7 degrees in the past century and these global warming bullshit artists

got caught with their pants down.

<snip>

I won't ask where you got this information from since it seems that you copied it straight out of Facebook: http://www.facebook....899&topic=21598

But I'd like to know anywhere reputable that says the earth has cooled in the last century.

No I didnt get it from facebook but if its there it may help to educate some.

As I understand it there are several ways that average global temperature can be calculated obviously not all will give the same result so really you have to take your pick as to which suits your point of view.

However as it seems most studies that support global warming as opposed to climate change have been done by computer modeling and set out to show that GW does exist so the results are predictable.

Hard to argue that volcanic activity wont have an effect, wonder how many 'studies' have taken it into account?

[Globalhot]

But I'd like to know anywhere reputable that says the earth has cooled in the last century.

As you can see by previous posts, they can' answer you.

Why? Because all of the data shows warming over the past 100 years, especially over the past 30 years.

The rapid increase in warming is absolutely NOT accounted for by changes in the suns energy.

The reason the planet is warming--the reason for global warming and associated climate change--is simple: humans (too many) are releasing formerly sequestered carbon in the atmosphere; the result of using fossil fuels.

Deforestation is also playing a role (fewer trees means less CO2 removal). There are other factors at play, but the sun is definitely not the reason for the recent and rapid change in CO2 levels and associated warming.

The only thing the skeptics can do to "counter your observation" is to focus on short term weather phenomena (ignoring the fact that the steady climb moves in a cycle...up and down due to short term weather events).

The long term trend is clearly up and you can see it in any textbook or reputable web site on global warming and associated climate change.

There is no debate among scientists who are studying the problem.

The issue was settled long ago: Global warming and associated climate change are very real.

Governments worldwide are trying to do something about the problem.

The scientific debate centers on how bad things are going to get, where, when, and what to do about it.

There is no point in pretending otherwise.

"Bobbie," are you listening?

I think a certain poster needs to tighten up a bolt or two.

[RickBradford]

Rather than pointless efforts to stop the almost non-existent problem of CO2-caused warming, we should probably be preparing for the opposite, since many scientists are pointing towards a future sharp decline in global temperature caused by the unfortunate coincidence of three factors:

* the Pacific Decadal Oscillation (PDO or El Nino) flipping into its cold phase;

* very low solar activity; and

* volcanic eruptions in the pipeline (Eyjafjallajokull's big brother, Katla, may be on the verge of a big eruption if history repeats itself)

As Roy Spencer argues in his book, The Great Global Warming Blunder, the PDO may have significant effects on cloud cover, which may in themselves be sufficient to explain virtually all of the late 20th century warming, without any discernible effect from anthropogenic CO2. Add this to the fact that the sun is in the deepest slumber since the Dalton Minimum (1790-1830, a time of very low temperatures), and Icelandic volcanoes are kicking off and you have a recipe for significant global cooling.

This is conjecture of course, but more likely than the dire predictions of the IPCC's incomplete and flawed climate models. So time to get your thermals out…

Edited July 10, 2010 by RickBradford

[whybother]

<snip>

Hey, isn't it interesting how they don't mention "Global Warming" any more,

but just "Climate Change" - you know why? It's because the planet has COOLED

by 0.7 degrees in the past century and these global warming bullshit artists

got caught with their pants down.

<snip>

I won't ask where you got this information from since it seems that you copied it straight out of Facebook: http://www.facebook....899&topic=21598

But I'd like to know anywhere reputable that says the earth has cooled in the last century.

No I didnt get it from facebook but if its there it may help to educate some.

As I understand it there are several ways that average global temperature can be calculated obviously not all will give the same result so really you have to take your pick as to which suits your point of view.

However as it seems most studies that support global warming as opposed to climate change have been done by computer modeling and set out to show that GW does exist so the results are predictable.

Hard to argue that volcanic activity wont have an effect, wonder how many 'studies' have taken it into account?

So you got it from some other source.

Where ever you copied your post from, I would still like to see a scientific report that says there has been cooling.

[Globalhot]

Where ever you copied your post from, I would still like to see a scientific report that says there has been cooling.

Whybother.......why bother? They can't answer you.

We both know they are totally wrong and are only attempting to confuse people with a cut and paste routine (boring).

Maybe we can discuss the subject a bit.

Back to Thailand and global warming induced climate change.

Normally I would not say that, I would just say climate change, but some of these posters are so unfamiliar with the scientific literature that they actually don't know that when one says "climate change" is it understood that human activities and global warming are causing it.

I think you mentioned the negative impact on the oceans. I followed that up with comments about ocean acidification and the possible collapse of the food chain.

That will probably take a long time to transpire, but the trend is down right scary.

Many scientists are seriously concerned about the possibility that more increases in CO2 will lead to more declines in pH, leading to very negative consequences for ocean creatures that depend on calcium for their structures.

If the diatoms are negatively impacted, the entire food chain will be negatively impacted.

Back to Thailand. This will have a major, negative impact on the fishing industry--jobs will be lost, exports will decline, sports fisheries will shut down, restaurants that depend on seafood will shut down, etc.

Is that what Thailand needs? I don't think so.

[RickBradford]

You never have to wait long for the AGW knuckle-draggers to make a ridiculous spectacle of themselves.

global warming induced climate change

Global warming is a type of climate change, it doesn't induce it. The two terms have been used interchangeably in the literature for quite some time.

What induces climate change is natural variation, the sun, atmosphere, the oceans, and other processes we are not sure about.

When you write that 'some of these posters are so unfamiliar with the scientific literature', I assume you are putting yourself firmly at the head of that list.

Edited July 10, 2010 by RickBradford

[canuckamuck]

Whybother.......why bother? They can't answer you.

We both know they are totally wrong and are only attempting to confuse people with a cut and paste routine (boring).

Maybe we can discuss the subject a bit.

Back to Thailand and global warming induced climate change.

Normally I would not say that, I would just say climate change, but some of these posters are so unfamiliar with the scientific literature that they actually don't know that when one says "climate change" is it understood that human activities and global warming are causing it.

I think it's about time you presented some of the science you are so familiar with, all I see from you is opinions.

Rick (Bobby) has brought up some simple evidence that flies in the face of your premise, how about you show where he has made an error.

[Globalhot]

Still no response.Is there an emoticon for totally boring? Maybe wacko will do for now

[RickBradford]

^^That's a stand-out stupid comment, even by the standards of someone who thinks there is something called "global warming induced climate change"

Edited July 10, 2010 by RickBradford

[canuckamuck]

Still no response.Is there an emoticon for totally boring? Maybe wacko will do for now

For a guy who has a global warming avatar and nickname, you are very disappointing when it comes to backing up your point of view. You haven't brought a single piece of evidence. You are pretty quick at the name calling though; which is typical warmist behavior.

[Globalhot]

You keep trying to prop up your version of a "straw man." In your case: The myth that there is a debate among scientists as to whether or not global warming induced climate change is real.

As stated, THERE IS NO DEBATE. You seem to be way behind the rest of the world on this issue.

The evidence in support of global warming can be traced way back to the turn of the century.

You might want to get up to speed by reading IPCC reports: http://www.ipcc.ch/ (that is complicated if you have no understanding of science)

To get an idea about what scientists and governments are doing to mitigate the impacts of global warming induced climate change go here:

http://unfccc.int/2860.php

Now, back to the subject. I would like to focus, not on a non issue in the form of a straw man, but on how global warming induced climate change is and will impact Thailand.

As stated way back before we all got distracted by the straw man ploy, pH of the oceans is declining (acidification). This has, in the past, caused mass extinctions. The important point is that this took hundreds of thousands (actually much longer) of years to transpire.

Now we are accelerating the "normal cycle." The recent drop in pH that has taken place just over the past 100 years took over 100,000 to materialize in the past.

Check these links out:

http://www.springerl...5g2151l3nlt871/

http://www.skeptical...ion-events.html

Now, human-induced climate change is causing pH in the oceans to drop in what amounts to a blink of an eye in geological time.

Again, it is not change that is the problem; it is the pace of change (you really need to understand this point as you apparently do not).

Scientists are very concerned about this. The drop is happening because more and more CO2 is being absorbed by the oceans.

This drop negatively impacts calcium absorption and biochemistry of marine organisms (calcium is needed to form shells like you see on oysters).

In particular, it negatively impacts diatoms, marine micro-organisms that form the basis of the entire marine food chain.

If the diatoms become stressed and unable to properly metabolize calcium, a major tipping point will be crossed leading to a mass extinction event.

Thailand is surrounded on several sides by saltwater: Andaman Sea and Gulf of Thailand.

There are fishing villages all over that depend on fishing. There are restaurants and untold numbers of businesses that depend on fishing.

If the "event" happens, these people will suffer. It will be an economic catastrophe. And this is only one detrimental impact. There are many others.

It will happen in stages, most likely deformed shells and later reduced fish stocks and later still mass extinction.

[RickBradford]

Can somebody explain to this muppet that the phrase "global warming induced climate change" is a nonsense -- try using crayons and coloured balloons to get his attention.For people following this thread who have learnt to chew solid food, the big Iceland volcano Katla went through 14 minor earthquakes yesterday.

Katla Volcano usually erupts every century, says Iceland’s President Olafur Grimsson. and the last eruption was in 1918. “The time for Katla to erupt is coming close.”“I don’t say if, but I say when Katla will erupt,” Grimsson says. “We have been waiting for that eruption for several years.”“It can create, for a long period, extraordinary damage to modern advanced society.”

That might be something to keep an eye on, much more so than the sight of a handful of halfwits telling us we'll be grilled into extinction by rising CO2.

[whybother]

Can somebody explain to this muppet that the phrase "global warming induced climate change" is a nonsense -- try using crayons and coloured balloons to get his attention.For people following this thread who have learnt to chew solid food, the big Iceland volcano Katla went through 14 minor earthquakes yesterday.

Katla Volcano usually erupts every century, says Iceland's President Olafur Grimsson. and the last eruption was in 1918. "The time for Katla to erupt is coming close.""I don't say if, but I say when Katla will erupt," Grimsson says. "We have been waiting for that eruption for several years.""It can create, for a long period, extraordinary damage to modern advanced society."

That might be something to keep an eye on, much more so than the sight of a handful of halfwits telling us we'll be grilled into extinction by rising CO2.

I hadn't actually heard the phrase used before, but it makes some sense if you think about it.

On average, the globe is warming. This overall warming is causing some areas to get drier and some areas wetter, some areas to get hotter and some areas colder, and storms to get more severe - ie climates are changing.

That makes it "Global Warming induced Climate Change".

And it's pretty obvious that this IS happening.

Now, whether the global warming is caused by humans is a completely different debate.

Edited July 11, 2010 by whybother

[canuckamuck]

Now, human-induced climate change is causing pH in the oceans to drop in what amounts to a blink of an eye in geological time.

Here it is clear you don't understand what you are talking about. Is it climate change that is allegedly changing the PH, or is it an increase in C02.

It can't be both

Again, it is not change that is the problem; it is the pace of change (you really need to understand this point as you apparently do not).

Scientists are very concerned about this. The drop is happening because more and more CO2 is being absorbed by the oceans.

Well you better learn how to cap the volcanoes, because the C02 they put out is not only random and unpredictable, but magnitudes higher than the industrial contribution of C02. If the sea creatures have made it through eons of fluctuating C02 levels, I imagine they will stick around a little longer too.

Edited July 11, 2010 by canuckamuck

[Globalhot]

I hadn't actually heard the phrase used before, but it makes some sense if you think about it.

On average, the globe is warming. This overall warming is causing some areas to get drier and some areas wetter, some areas to get hotter and some areas colder, and storms to get more severe - ie climates are changing.

That makes it "Global Warming induced Climate Change".

And it's pretty obvious that this IS happening.

Now, whether the global warming is caused by humans is a completely different debate.

I used the phrase as shorthand for what scientists mean when they say "climate change." I did that because a certain person was trying to give the impression that saying "climate change" was "hiding global warming." Total BS nonsense!

It is understood (and definitely not under debate) that climate change is the result of human activities that are causing CO2 levels to rise along with temperature--leading to global warming and subsequently to climate change.

Climate change is a type of shorthand. It is not meant to "hide global warming."

It is obvious they have no idea about the relationship between rising CO2 levels and ocean acidification. So, WhyBother..........why bother?

They still can't answer your simple question about evidence that the earth is undergoing a cooling trend over the past 100 years.

Why? Because it isn't and all the evidence points to the exact opposite: long term pattern of warming.

But enough of their nonsense and obvious attempts to create a straw man and divert attention away from the topic.

I am curious if any other posters can put forth other ways Thailand will likely be impacted global warming induced climate change due to human activities and associated release of sequestered carbon in the atmosphere (i.e., burning fossil fuels).

Clearly, the acidification of the oceans and its probable economic impact on Thailand's fisheries is a serious matter.

What else can Thailand look forward to?