Major Political Reform Needed For Thailand : Surin

[ozzieman05]

She did fail to mention one small detail...like the protesters desiring the freedom to elect their leaders without military coups, election fixing and junta backed political meddling.

Yes I agree this counttry needs a constitution which keeps the army out of politics. The probelm started when they overthrew a legally elected government. The election bo is the way to do that - not guns

That hasn't happened in a LONG time politically. It certainly didn't happen in 2006. The coup displaced a caretaker government that was extra-constitiutional (not legally in place because their time to install an ELECTED governent had expired!)

This lie just seems to be coming up time and times again

when the Coup happened there was no legally elected Government in Thailand

Thaskin was only a caretaker

[eddie61]

If you ask me the police are the rotten core of a rotten apple.

Reform the police force and the whole of society will benefit. Easier said than done of course, but these really are the bad guys that poison thai society.

I don't think that any resident of the kingdom, of whatever colour, has managed to avoid their rent collection. They are universally detested, the scum on a festering cauldron of unbridled corruption.

Except this tilts the balance towards the police. No counter vailing force.

Need to corral both together... and not die trying.

[eggomaniac]

"It is not about being democratic or undemocratic, but about the effectiveness of socialmanagement agencies," he told reporters on the sidelines of the meeting.

Among otherwise well worded comments by Surin Pitsuwan, I hope this sentence is a misquote and/ or mistranslation. Of course it IS totally and all encompassingly 'about being democratic or not. However , even in a nearly perfect system of democracy, which The Joseph Solution emodies, checks and balances have to be in the architecture to avoid the Tyranny of the Majority. It's WHO supplies the chamber of sober second thought that makes description of TJS impossible in this Forum. Even though I have stated dozens of times it cannot be discussed here, some Flamers continue to insist I have to. I have copies of the suspension I got when I did divulge details. Also, a couple of Trolls have stated they have asked me dozens of times, one liar said 'hundreds'. For the record I have never had communications with either of them. I have had private discussions with many Thais and a few expats. I have actually asked a few moderators in PM's if they wanted to hear about TJS and TJP, months ago before the KILLINGS. Should I Copy and Paste there "I don't want to get involved with trying to change Thai politics?"

It's just Wrong that I am not willing to share details, there are hundreds of emails to prove that, and it is WRONG to say it is okay to do it here.

On the point of Dr Surin's statement I fear his comments are those expected of him in his role at ASEAN and not necessarily for broadcast in Thai to those listening to the ricefield radio....

Even Khun Kasit can sound rational when speaking to a foreign audience but reserves the lunacy expected of him for the home turf. It's an ancient diplomatic art.

This being Thailand, seri Thai raises a very valid concern. In the case of Khun Surin, I hope it is an unfounded one. My hopes for Thailand nearly raced like horses on reading his comments. ST, I thank you for reminding me to rein in belief, until proven.

If I could get Khun Surin, Prof Thitinan, PM Chuan, and a few others on my 'list', in the offices of the KPI for a few hours, Thailand would be a G30 Nation within 5 years.

Thailand needs two things, and they both affect the Armed forces.

1. A constitution the Armed forces can not take down and rewrite at their pleasure (this means no more coup detats.

2. It needs a constitution that clearly defines the Armed forces are for defense of the country. As with UK, Canada, France, Germany, Australia, New Zealand, Denmark the list goes on etc, within the framework of their constitutions the Armed forces are not allowed to turn weapons on their own people. This is the fundamental problem with Thailand. Until the day the Thai peoples vote is able shape politics, the rolling succession of coups determining the countries fate will never allow stability and a move towards a better democratic system.

This is neither pro-red or anti PAD, it is a basic factor that the Armed forces in this country need to stop feathering their own retirement programs. That's what this is all about in the end. Anyone wish to argue to the contrary!

It's not a question of an unimpeachable constitution. Any large, mobilised force (armed or otherwise) can take over government or sovereignty of a nation if motivated to do so as history demonstrates repeatedly.

What is required is re-education/re-alignment of the military as to it's prime role if those empowered wish it - and you can anticipate some resistance to that!

To criticise the militarys perceived prime role at this point in history is to invite a lese-majeste accusation and therein lies the Catch-22. As with any military organisation that saw great empowerment in the cold war it is difficult to re-align oneself with democratic niceties and the wishes of the plebiate from Caesar to Putin to Nathan Jessop! (See- "A Few Good Men")

The militaries of Asian nations such as Burma and North Korea have done very nicely and see no benefit in handing over their wealth or power to people in business suits who will cheat them of their hard won gains.

On the point of Dr Surin's statement I fear his comments are those expected of him in his role at ASEAN and not necessarily for broadcast in Thai to those listening to the ricefield radio....

Even Khun Kasit can sound rational when speaking to a foreign audience but reserves the lunacy expected of him for the home turf. It's an ancient diplomatic art.

It surprises me that so many contributors sound off on matters Thai without even a cursory reading or understanding of thai political history or even culture (and yet still manage to echo Thanong )

I guess you can get all you need from reading the Nation throught the bottom of a beer bottle.

Feel free to flame away....

[Chunky1]

Comical. Try closing down Orchard Road or Broadway and see how many deaths your protest sustains. Of course, when it's another country...

[Fishbucket]

She did fail to mention one small detail...like the protesters desiring the freedom to elect their leaders without military coups, election fixing and junta backed political meddling.

Yes I agree this counttry needs a constitution which keeps the army out of politics. The probelm started when they overthrew a legally elected government. The election bo is the way to do that - not guns

That hasn't happened in a LONG time politically. It certainly didn't happen in 2006. The coup displaced a caretaker government that was extra-constitiutional (not legally in place because their time to install an ELECTED governent had expired!)

This lie just seems to be coming up time and times again

when the Coup happened there was no legally elected Government in Thailand

Thaskin was only a caretaker

you just have to laugh when people talk about coups in the context of legally elected governments...LOL

Oh by the way, there still is no legally elected government.

[selftaopath]

Thailand needs two things, and they both affect the Armed forces.

1. A constitution the Armed forces can not take down and rewrite at their pleasure (this means no more coup detats.

2. It needs a constitution that clearly defines the Armed forces are for defense of the country. As with UK, Canada, France, Germany, Australia, New Zealand, Denmark the list goes on etc, within the framework of their constitutions the Armed forces are not allowed to turn weapons on their own people. This is the fundamental problem with Thailand. Until the day the Thai peoples vote is able shape politics, the rolling succession of coups determining the countries fate will never allow stability and a move towards a better democratic system.

This is neither pro-red or anti PAD, it is a basic factor that the Armed forces in this country need to stop feathering their own retirement programs. That's what this is all about in the end. Anyone wish to argue to the contrary!

I agree with your post. I wonder how this could happen when Thailand effectively has NO police force, or judiciary worth relying on?

[selftaopath]

Amazing Thailand

Transfer all the corrupt police.

Call it a day !

Transfer to Burma?

[selftaopath]

Thailand needs two things, and they both affect the Armed forces.

1. A constitution the Armed forces can not take down and rewrite at their pleasure (this means no more coup detats.

2. It needs a constitution that clearly defines the Armed forces are for defense of the country. As with UK, Canada, France, Germany, Australia, New Zealand, Denmark the list goes on etc, within the framework of their constitutions the Armed forces are not allowed to turn weapons on their own people. This is the fundamental problem with Thailand. Until the day the Thai peoples vote is able shape politics, the rolling succession of coups determining the countries fate will never allow stability and a move towards a better democratic system.

This is neither pro-red or anti PAD, it is a basic factor that the Armed forces in this country need to stop feathering their own retirement programs. That's what this is all about in the end. Anyone wish to argue to the contrary!

Give us a bloody f'ing break. From neither pro red or pro yellow who are equally a blight on Thailand. It was only the Army that stopped this country from being over run by scum that would have seen Thailand fed on by wolves. Actually it was not only the Army but a government with some balls in coalition. Thaksin with control of the Army, cops and justice system would make Burma look like Disneyland. Seig Heil King Thaksin. Dreams of an Army that is at the beck and call like that of a western country is fantasy when your cop force is a complete and utter incompotent failure. At the moment Thailand has the governance it needs until such time as the Red mob learns some basic human manners and behavior, Thaksin's ambilical cord to Thailand is completely severed and a police force that actually does what a police force is supposed to do emerges.

But back to the topic of does Thailand need major politicial reform? Of course it does when the two extremes of Thailand clash like standing on a dirt road in Isaan as the latest BMW cruises past cronic social poverty. Thailand is not a poor country which is what makes it so bloody appalling. To correct that the constitution needs completely over hauled by all parties.

At such times as the last two months I thank both my god and my partner's god that Thailand has an Army to protect it from idiots that would take their pleasure at Thailand's pain.

Thaksin popularity is not only because of his free handsout .

He also represents to his supporters someone from outside that challenged the elite on equal terms

An elite that ignored the plight of Isaan for decades .

To solve thai problems , the army and violence is not the solution .

A governement of national unity is . For i doubt that whatever Abhisit does for Isaan will suffice if

Isaan dont have also a voice in running the country .

If this is not possible a policy of decentralisation where provinces are largely responsible of their own affairs

would be a secund option .

All in all whatever the result of next elections , whoever wins or can form a coalition , will have to

take in account the plight of the defeated party .

PS : Of course the reds have also to understand that Thaksin can never return

Please excuse my ignorance but why would,"If this is not possible a policy of decentralisation where provinces are largely responsible of their own affairs would be a secund option." Perhaps this ought to be a first option? Please explain. Thanks

[SomTumTiger]

Thailand needs two things, and they both affect the Armed forces.

1. A constitution the Armed forces can not take down and rewrite at their pleasure (this means no more coup detats.

2. It needs a constitution that clearly defines the Armed forces are for defense of the country. As with UK, Canada, France, Germany, Australia, New Zealand, Denmark the list goes on etc, within the framework of their constitutions the Armed forces are not allowed to turn weapons on their own people. This is the fundamental problem with Thailand. Until the day the Thai peoples vote is able shape politics, the rolling succession of coups determining the countries fate will never allow stability and a move towards a better democratic system.

This is neither pro-red or anti PAD, it is a basic factor that the Armed forces in this country need to stop feathering their own retirement programs. That's what this is all about in the end. Anyone wish to argue to the contrary!

When Martial law is declared in the USA the military are put on the streets to protect the country

The same applied to Australia, the military can be used at any time that the need arises if they are asked by the legal government

The Army did not take to the street of Bkk on their own in the 2010 cleaning up of the streets

It doesn't take "martial law" - in the US. The National Guard have been called out many times for security, peacekeeping, etc over the past several decades (Sometimes to bad consequences - see "Kent State"). They serve when called up by the state Governor or by the President. The term martial law has nothing to do with it.

[whybother]

you just have to laugh when people talk about coups in the context of legally elected governments...LOL

Oh by the way, there still is no legally elected government.

Why? Wasn't the 2007 election valid?

[whybother]

Thaksin popularity is not only because of his free handsout .

He also represents to his supporters someone from outside that challenged the elite on equal terms

An elite that ignored the plight of Isaan for decades .

To solve thai problems , the army and violence is not the solution .

A governement of national unity is . For i doubt that whatever Abhisit does for Isaan will suffice if

Isaan dont have also a voice in running the country .

If this is not possible a policy of decentralisation where provinces are largely responsible of their own affairs

would be a secund option .

All in all whatever the result of next elections , whoever wins or can form a coalition , will have to

take in account the plight of the defeated party .

PS : Of course the reds have also to understand that Thaksin can never return

Aren't the politicians that have been elected by the Isaanites their voice?

Why do the Isaanites think that they should be running the country? What about the majority of Thailand?

[SpoliaOpima]

Oh by the way, there still is no legally elected government.

By the way, there certainly is, and your saying there isn't means nothing. All the MPs comprising the government were elected, including Abhisit.

[Duangta]

Here is what Sondhi Limthongkul thinks of a major political reform in Thailand:

We cannot fix our country with the parliamentary system. The parliament cannot fix the problem of the country. If I was prime minister I would arrange for the Speaker of the Senate, the Chairman of the Constitutional Court, the Chairman of the Supreme Court, the Chairman of the (Supreme) Administrative Court to go report to the King about the situation and ask for his permission to resign and give (their) powers back to the King, dissolve the parliament and then resign (myself?). That would create a vacuum and there wouldn’t be a parliament or members of parliament. Power would be returned to the King so he could decide who should be called upon to manage these issues. For a period of three years this would free the country to reform the political system, reform the police, bring everything to good order. Yes, that’s what should be done.

Source: Manager Online, Translated by New Mandala

There you go, an even more straight forward approach than his previous thoughts/demands to change from the system of publicly electing MP's to appointing MP's and the Senate (behold the Senate is appointed already).

I can't access PPT (Political Prisoners in Thailand), FACT (Freedom against Censorship Thailand) and Prachatai as many other websites anymore:

This website has been blocked by ICT

On these and other websites are a couple of interesting discussions/thoughts about the political future of Thailand. If you are living outside Thailand.... then repost please. (can't even get to them via proxy servers anymore)

Also have a look at Asiasentinels last articles about Thailand.

One more article here:

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/opinio...article1583443/

[Duangta]

As we can see in world politics all around the globe: The call of the decade is "terrorism" to justify governmental sanctions/arrests/interventions/witch hunts/eradication of opposition/etc.

Chula academics call for “return of justice and academic freedom”

A group of achans from the Faculties of Arts, Political Science and Economics, Chulalongkorn University, held a press conference at 1 pm this afternoon, Tuesday, May 25, 2010, at Faculty of Political Science. This press conference was in relation to the case of Achan Suthachai Yimprasert of Chula’s History Department who was arrested under the ‘State Emergency Decree of 2005’ on the previous day and is being detained at an army camp in Saraburi, about 100 kilometers north of Bangkok.

A public statement was issued to all media present (press, TV and radio) calling for the return of justice and academic freedom and the release of Achan Suthachai and those who are arrested and charged without any clear evidence.

See more regarding this topic here:

Thailand’s terrorists

My point:

Restoration is taking place right now, as we have seen in Thai politics again and again. A major political reform towards participation, equality and "democracy" was and never will be in the interest of the Thai political-money-power elite. To the contrary, as you can see by the thoughts of Sonthi.

Edited May 30, 2010 by Duangta

[whybother]

Here is what Sondhi Limthongkul thinks of a major political reform in Thailand:

We cannot fix our country with the parliamentary system. The parliament cannot fix the problem of the country. If I was prime minister I would arrange for the Speaker of the Senate, the Chairman of the Constitutional Court, the Chairman of the Supreme Court, the Chairman of the (Supreme) Administrative Court to go report to the King about the situation and ask for his permission to resign and give (their) powers back to the King, dissolve the parliament and then resign (myself?). That would create a vacuum and there wouldn't be a parliament or members of parliament. Power would be returned to the King so he could decide who should be called upon to manage these issues. For a period of three years this would free the country to reform the political system, reform the police, bring everything to good order. Yes, that's what should be done.

Source: Manager Online, Translated by New Mandala

There you go, an even more straight forward approach than his previous thoughts/demands to change from the system of publicly electing MP's to appointing MP's and the Senate (behold the Senate is appointed already).

I can't access PPT (Political Prisoners in Thailand), FACT (Freedom against Censorship Thailand) and Prachatai as many other websites anymore:

This website has been blocked by ICT

On these and other websites are a couple of interesting discussions/thoughts about the political future of Thailand. If you are living outside Thailand.... then repost please. (can't even get to them via proxy servers anymore)

Also have a look at Asiasentinels last articles about Thailand.

One more article here:

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/opinio...article1583443/

"For a period of three years this would free the country to reform the political system"

He is only suggesting putting power with the king for 3 years while the political system is reformed.

Given the corruption of the political system in Thailand over the last 10 years, it wouldn't be such a bad idea, except I suppose that is what the reds are basically assuming happens already.

And only half the senate is appointed.

Until all Thais understand what democracy really means (not just the N/NE ones), the current political system is going to be corrupted.

[jayjayjayjay]

Thaksin popularity is not only because of his free handsout .

He also represents to his supporters someone from outside that challenged the elite on equal terms

An elite that ignored the plight of Isaan for decades .

To solve thai problems , the army and violence is not the solution .

A governement of national unity is . For i doubt that whatever Abhisit does for Isaan will suffice if

Isaan dont have also a voice in running the country .

If this is not possible a policy of decentralisation where provinces are largely responsible of their own affairs

would be a secund option .

All in all whatever the result of next elections , whoever wins or can form a coalition , will have to

take in account the plight of the defeated party .

PS : Of course the reds have also to understand that Thaksin can never return

Aren't the politicians that have been elected by the Isaanites their voice?

Why do the Isaanites think that they should be running the country? What about the majority of Thailand?

Most of their politicians have been removed from office by the courts. What they are saying is why haven't the Dems been removed so we can start from a clean playing field. They will not accept 4 years of judicial politics.