Gas Mask Standards `too Strict'

[george]

HIGH-RISE BUILDINGS / SAFETY REGULATIONS

Gas mask standards `too strict'

BANGKOK: -- The Interior Ministry is set to revise the regulations on fire safety that require owners of high-rise buildings to provide gas masks for tenants.

The ministry called a meeting with experts and building operators on Wednesday to discuss the problem of the new regulations which took effect in March. The amended version is expected to be completed by the end of this month.

``It is clear that officials share similar worries [with opponents of this law] about the specifications of the fire evacuation masks. It is clear the specifications are too strict and the amendment is needed,'' said Surapol Lek-khao, legal expert of the Department of Disaster Prevention, the state agency under the Interior Ministry that enforces the law.

It is highly possible the specifications of the masks would be reduced, while enforcement of the law would get a moratorium, he said in a phone interview.

The amendment move came after the Thai Hotels Association, professional organisations such as the Engineering Institute of Thailand (EIT) and the Siam Architect Association (SAA), strongly criticised the mask specifications as they believed they were set to favour a group of companies.

The original regulations demand buildings that are higher than 23 metres as well as those with over 10,000 square metres _ including department stores, apartments, schools, office buildings, night spots and restaurants _ provide gas masks that withstand 800 degrees Celsius, the specification considered too strict.

It also demands the masks meet the European Union's standard EU 403, the AS/NZS 1716:1994 standard used in Australia and New Zealand, and the Japan 248 standard.

It was expected hundreds of thousands of masks would have had to be imported. The hotel industry would be most affected as the law requires each hotel to provide two masks for each room.

There are more than 400,000 hotel rooms in the country and the industry was expected to spend over two billion baht on the masks, priced from 4,000-6,000 baht each.

--The Post 2005-06-17

[Gumballl]

Hmmm, 800 C (= 1472 F) is a "wee bit" above the comfort zone for most people I know, including Thai's who live with infernally hot summers. At that temperature, the mask may survive exposure to a fire, but the person bearing it would be charred beyond recognition.

I propose that the folks at the Interior Ministry be sent back to elementary school to learn the basics about science, before they propose any more off-the-wall laws or regulations.

Anyhow, praise the IM for the chuckle.

[Greer]

I agree with the EIT and SAA...the whole thing sounds a bit fishy.

It is certainly along the right lines to propose devices to assist in escaping fire - especially as a huge percentage of fire related deaths occur as a result of smoke inhalation - but they have to be realistic about the specification of such devices.

I would assume that the maskes they propose are actually designed for use with a full body flame/fire suit...to propose them for use in a hotel for guests is innapropriate.

Edited June 18, 2005 by Greer

[~G~]

800 celsuis... this is a joke.

The main problem in these situations is not the heat - its the smoke. The mask should filter the smoke effectively for the 30-40 minutes required for most people to escape from the building. That's it. It should be easy to use by people with no training, and to allow good visability.

[Likenitstill]

I hope the author of this article mistakenly used the term "gas mask". A gas mask is different then a personal self contained breathing apparatus.

A gas mask in the event of a fire is useless in terms of saving lives or aiding in ones escape outside the building.

If the atmosphere inside the building contains less then 21% oxygen, a gas mask will not change that. A gas mask might prevent the inhalation of some toxic fumes or gas but will not prevent asphyxiation by smoke or heat.

Ultimately my questions is this....

Are they planning on installing gas mask or breathing air escape modules.

Maybe a simple error in terminology.

[MP5]

I hope the author of this article mistakenly used the term "gas mask".  A gas mask is different then a personal self contained breathing apparatus.

A gas mask in the event of a fire is useless in terms of saving lives or aiding in ones escape outside the building.

If the atmosphere inside the building contains less then 21% oxygen, a gas mask will not change that.  A gas mask might prevent the inhalation of some toxic fumes or gas but will not prevent asphyxiation by smoke or heat.

Ultimately my questions is this....

Are they planning on installing gas mask or breathing air escape modules.

Maybe a simple error in terminology.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I agree wiyh you 100% plus who is going to train in the use of this appparatus.

Sprinkler systems, adequate evacuation plans and not locking fire exits should be the first step also holding regular evacuation drills.

A bit over the top better than having to jump plus how do you get a 3/11 year old into a gas mask let alone a rebreather.

Again amazing who comes up with these plans.

What do we have some one with an over supply of gas masks?

Also the metal barring of high rise condo's should be removed.

Remember most don't die from the burns it's the smoke inhalation and toxic fumes from furniture and such like.

Thailand needs to seriously review it's civil defence disaster incident management plan.

Gas Masks ever tried to fit one of those in less than 30 seconds.

Hve enough trouble instructing the troops in NBCD and fitting it on each other in under a minute.

Who do we contact at which agency these guys need a serious instruction course on disaster management.

Like the firemen in plastic sandals and smoking at the car accident.

Makes you wonder why so many die let alone 11 in the back of the pick up truck.

A contact would be helpful, experience just might rub off. Never know might get paid!!

[Likenitstill]

I hope the author of this article mistakenly used the term "gas mask".  A gas mask is different then a personal self contained breathing apparatus.

A gas mask in the event of a fire is useless in terms of saving lives or aiding in ones escape outside the building.

If the atmosphere inside the building contains less then 21% oxygen, a gas mask will not change that.  A gas mask might prevent the inhalation of some toxic fumes or gas but will not prevent asphyxiation by smoke or heat.

Ultimately my questions is this....

Are they planning on installing gas mask or breathing air escape modules.

Maybe a simple error in terminology.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I agree wiyh you 100% plus who is going to train in the use of this appparatus.

Sprinkler systems, adequate evacuation plans and not locking fire exits should be the first step also holding regular evacuation drills.

A bit over the top better than having to jump plus how do you get a 3/11 year old into a gas mask let alone a rebreather.

Again amazing who comes up with these plans.

What do we have some one with an over supply of gas masks?

Also the metal barring of high rise condo's should be removed.

Remember most don't die from the burns it's the smoke inhalation and toxic fumes from furniture and such like.

Thailand needs to seriously review it's civil defence disaster incident management plan.

Gas Masks ever tried to fit one of those in less than 30 seconds.

Hve enough trouble instructing the troops in NBCD and fitting it on each other in under a minute.

Who do we contact at which agency these guys need a serious instruction course on disaster management.

Like the firemen in plastic sandals and smoking at the car accident.

Makes you wonder why so many die let alone 11 in the back of the pick up truck.

A contact would be helpful, experience just might rub off. Never know might get paid!!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Good post.......I have lived here two years have been a professional firefighter and paramedic in Canada and also a Firefighter and acting Chief in Afghanistan. I have been asking the same questions....Who do I contact? How do I get the inside track to do some educating around here?

[TokyoT]

Sounds like someone in the Interior Ministry has a brother that makes/imports gas masks???

[~G~]

A gas mask in the event of a fire is useless in terms of saving lives or aiding in ones escape outside the building.

If the atmosphere inside the building contains less then 21% oxygen, a gas mask will not change that.  A gas mask might prevent the inhalation of some toxic fumes or gas but will not prevent asphyxiation by smoke or heat.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I do not agree. You don't need 21% oxygen to survive. You can do with much less.

The smoke and toxic air is the problem - not the low % of oxygen. A gas mask that filters that and lets some oxygen pass (and in this situation there is still enough oxygen in the air) will do the job.

And yes, there are masks that filter smoke. Very effectively.

Edited June 21, 2005 by ~G~

[~G~]

The amended version is expected to be completed by the end of this month.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

This was posted in June. George, do you know whether an amended version was completed yet?