Death Sentence

[francois]

hi' all

it's a little time already, that we are talking about death penalty.

rapist, murderers, drug-dealers .. etc etc

can we consider this sentence like a non-human's one or should we apply a definitive sentence to those people?

aren't we similar when we through our hate (whatever the cause) toward those "bad people" ?

just say what do you think.

write truly, no-need to be shame about your thoughts, or may be it's time to think twice ... or in another way ...

choices are in someway doubled ...

I agree, and/or don't change it ... which is not the same

I disagree and/or we could have better answer then death ... which is not the same

then, no-opinion or I prefer not to talk about, which also are not same answer.

make a good choice and say why this one ...

choosing I don't agree doesn't require big explanation, as I agree with it,

but, if you choose don't change anything or we could have better deserve some lines of why you think this way, don't you think?

the difference between answers is thin, but it's matter of way of thinking, not only words, as it is a quite serious subject.

you vote once, so think twice

thanks for honest answer

francois

[Guest ka1234]

Coming from a European country where the criminals have more rights than the victims and potential victims; murderers usually get 2-3 years, rapists are rarely convicted, thieves are never punished etc I am in favour of strong punishment.

Death penalty for teenage drug couriers (who are rarely the actual benefactors of the drug money) is a bit extreme, but as a punishment for violent crimes where one or more victims have lost their lives I think it is the correct punishment.

[pnustedt]

Hey Francois - I thought your next poll (after smoking) was going to be on alcohol - guess you've decided Chang would win hands down?

[francois]

guess you've decided Chang would win hands down?

hahaha

not sure at all ...

I'll make this poll ...

but no emergency, can put some ice in the beer, wait little bit

you know what ... I don't drink

[fred110]

Many of us agree that crimes like murder and rape should result in death for the criminal. But I also think that career criminals should be put down like rabid dogs too. They drain resources from every society, and contribute nothing to the general good. I include car thieves, insurance fraud, muggers, etc. THey hold back the entire human race from moving forward. People in need (poor, children, schools, etc.) suffer in the long run. People who work and pay taxes could have a better quality of life instead of paying for a law enforcement and judicial system that do not work.

[Nat]

An eye for an eye? or Thou shalt not kill?

It's all too confusing

[francois]

well ... confused?

so, in other words ; is forgiveness endless or would you put some limit to it?

this has nothing to do with religion, it's all about human's behavior in every ways.

[Begs]

But I also think that career criminals should be put down like rabid dogs too. They drain resources from every society, and contribute nothing to the general good. I include car thieves, insurance fraud.

So Fred, can i take it that you had your car nicked once?

[Axel]

I am absolutely against any death sentence for whatever crime. However, I am against early release. Life-sentence must be life sentence and 20 years should be

20 x 365 days (add some leap-year-days)

a) Death penalty does not stop others from doing the same crime.

IMHO a stay in many jails around the world, knowing you never get out anymore, would be far stronger punishment, than 'puff' you are gone.

(Agreed some countries offer facilities better than the culprits would have in free life. Still, I do imagine to be caged in for year after year is worse than anything else)

c) Costs? Yes, more expensive than an injection. A price, democracy must pay

d) Last but not least. There are all over the world wrong judgements and finally it turned out that the jailed person really was innocent. Society can try to make up for the mistake but only if the prisoner is still alive. If only for this reason alone, the costs must be accepted by the state.

[francois]

Last but not least. There are all over the world wrong judgements and finally it turned out that the jailed person really was innocent. Society can try to make up for the mistake but only if the prisoner is still alive. If only for this reason alone, the costs must be accepted by the state.

I was waiting for an answer like this one

right, a lot of innocent get death sentenced a then get executed without any mercy, like it has been done in texas for years

and then , some years or sometime less, we discover the real truth ... this person was innocent, so ... who should be judged at this point?

thanks for this Axel

[Nat]

well ... confused?

so, in other words ; is forgiveness endless or would you put some limit to it?

this has nothing to do with religion, it's all about human's behavior in every ways.

Personally, I'm a humanist and can't condone capital punishment. This is not to say I don't grieve for the victims and their families. Not sure if it's possible to put a time limit on forgiveness, but believe that if behaviour is learnt then it can be unlearnt. Rehabilitation, in my opinion, is a better option - at least they can give something back to the community

[dr_Pat_Pong]

I know that the ballot is secret, but when Dubya votes can you let us all know how he voted

[seahorse]

So, you make a law saying it's wrong to kill people, then you kill the people who break this law. Isn't that hypocritical?

[francois]

I know that the ballot is secret, but when Dubya votes can you let us all know how he voted

we will probably never know, but we can guess ...

do you think he is such .... hum tough?

[meemiathai]

So, you make a law saying it's wrong to kill people, then you kill the people who break this law. Isn't that hypocritical? 

So, what is your opinion?

How should we treat a person who has, say like, assaulted someone's daughter or wife, and then unmercifully raped her and at the end perhaps brutally killed her and dumped her body aside on a highway like a piece of trash? (perhaps imagine the victim is one of your love ones?)

Should we be like politely asking him to sit down and ask him if he knew what he had done was wrong? Telling him that he will be put behind bars and that if he behaves well he would be out of jail in a few years time and hopefully would contribute to the society?

Isn't that more hypocritical?

I am not sure if death penalty is right or wrong. But certainly do not think that it is hypocritical!

[taxexile]

maybe the type and severity of the punishments for rape, murder,grievous bodily harm etc. should be decided by the families of the victims.

[francois]

maybe the type and severity of the punishments for rape, murder,grievous bodily harm etc. should be decided by the families of the victims.

whao .... what a savage idea

and let's do it in public, hey, why not? has to be a real execution!

I forgot... but it seems to me that we are not leaving in the middle-age anymore ...

aren't we ..please tell me I get confused

we are in the 2000's, am I right or did I change century ...

may kaodjai .. I still have a computer, they did not have this in the middle-age, did they?

[D80]

I disagree and/or we could have better answer then death ... which is not the same

What's the difference between these two?

Just want to clarify before I vote.

[taxexile]

whao .... what a savage idea

francoise

for every crime there is a guilty party and there is a victim,or victims.

the criminal sets out to commit the crime,it is premeditated and planned.

the victim does not set out to become a victim

the feelings of the victim should come before concern for the criminal.

revenge, although seen by many as uncivilised , is an important emotion.

forgiveness,seen as civilized,is also an important emotion.

but its different strokes for different folks.

some can forgive and be content

some need revenge for closure

i would not deny revenge to a victim of a violent crime if it would alleviate the suffering of the victim.

i dont care about the suffering of the criminal.

they asked for it.

[Jeepz]

Personally I am against the death penalty. At least in the USA where I am a citizen. But I am faced with a bit of a dichotomy. I dislike the death penalty intellectually. I have much less of a problem with it emotionally.

Take the case of the "Green River" killer who just confessed to 40 plus murders so that he wouldn't have to face the death penalty. I find that appalling. If we have a death penalty, I can think of no one more deserving.

But then there is the Illinois Govenor that commuted the death sentences of a large number of inmates after he was faced with the finding that a significant portion of convictions were wrong. I know that there are cops and prosecutors that are willing to send an innocent man (or woman) to death. Or they believe they have the right person, just not enough evidence to convict, so they start fabricating it.

And right there I have a major problem. No crime is so henious that we need to start executing the innocent, just so we can start feeling better. But that is what we are doing. No, not all the time. Just occasionally. And even occasionally is too much in my book.

So, yeah, there are some I'd like to see fry, but not enough to crisp the guiltless.

Jeepz

[note: The Illinois Govenor didn't free the individuals, just took them off death row.]

[BigA]

The only thing wrong with the death penalty is that we sometimes put the wrong person to death. With technology, we are eliminating some of the human error but possibly opening up some other avenues for abusing the system. It is a useful deterent, and a means to eliminate the most evil people from the social system. In the US most are able to, plea bargain and avoid the death penalty. Usually, it the most heinous, offenders who get it. Lethal injection is the means in my former state, Missouri. I think we are a distant second to Texas in capital punishment in the US.

Another gripe is that the system discriminates against Blacks, particularly, who make up a huge percentage, of the violent offenders, in the institutionalized population.

I have a relative in maximum security, and it is no cakewalk. Prison in the US is a mean place. I think a nasty prison system is a good deterent also!

I am against summary executions, by police etc. outside the traditional system. I believe this occurs regularly, in Thaksins war on drugs.

It will be a big problem, if the portion of the world, that is more lenient, tries to impose their moral system, on the US, through pressure by NGO's etc.

[francois]

Taxexile ....

please spell my name properly

francois is the masculine form and francoise is the feminine one ...

this refer to Francis in english language

I did not turn kaotey .. as far as my wife and I know

then ...

for every crime there is a guilty party and there is a victim,or victims.

the criminal sets out to commit the crime,it is premeditated and planned.

the victim does not set out to become a victim

the feelings of the victim should come before concern for the criminal.

revenge, although seen by many as uncivilised , is an important emotion.

forgiveness,seen as civilized,is also an important emotion.

but its different strokes for different folks.

some can forgive and be content

some need revenge for closure

i would not deny revenge to a victim of a violent crime if it would alleviate the suffering of the victim.

i dont care about the suffering of the criminal.

they asked for it.

please don't be so straight not all criminals have planned their "crime" ...

feelings of victims ... should be instead a main-concern! (human way)

but how can we give a life relief to someone who lost his or her son or daughter in a crime scene ... not obviously premeditated or planned ... you know?

the so-called collateral damage

have you a nicer way than giving them the right to give a strong suffering to the one who they hold for responsible of their own suffering.

revenge is not a civilzed "emotion", it's a very old concept of "an eye for an eye"

just like I said you kill someone , I'll kill you!

I do agree with a life sentenced wich means LIFE!!

never go out again, die in jail. dangerous and harmfull to people, put them a part!

once in history, france had a very special jail, on an island far away ...

that was called the "bagne", it's over for a real long time ...

that could be a good way to keep those criminals away for good!

don't you think?

and I do think that could a lot less than life-jail.

I don't think that all criminals ask for death ... they are criminals, not suiciders!

[francois]

bug ....

the message appeared twice ...

read it one should be enough

[francois]

What's the difference between these two?

far too be complicated, you disagree, you can tell why or not, anyway you disagree with this, but thinking that there might be a better way might show your concern on this matter, and that you thought about this before the poll ... a bit more than 'I disagree"./ ... which could be a straight reaction to the poll

just vote and express yourself

[D80]

Ok,

I voted. I have to disagree with the death penalty. I believe there should be some other ways of dealing with the problems.

I'd done some research in the area of punishment and discipline in a society at uni. Nothing serious, just a little project. But it does make me think about the way things work now. The statistic related to the death penalty doesn't seem to indicate that it is an effective form of deterrent. One of the reasons was because most offenders, at least from what I found in that project anyway, don't think of the consequences or were blinded by the situations that they didn't really realise the severity of their actions. I still think there must be some form of constructive punishment available. Whether a society is willing or able to try it out or not is another story. What I have seen of rehabilitation so far is inconclusive. The results in different researches have been rather mixed....Perhaps the right way to deal with punishment and discipline is yet to be found.

Also, human error will always happen. Sometimes, evidences of certain cases seem to point to a particular person while that person is actually innocent (in my limited experience of reading cases). In this day and age, technology does help solving many crimes. But it also helps the perpatrators of crime stealing someone else's identity or covering their tracks as well.

There is no easy answer to this. My gut feeling now is that I don't agree with the death penalty. I have been effected by serious criime before (and been effected by one very recently) but I still can't agree with such practice. What the alternatives maybe.. I am still trying to make up my mind. Whatever it is, I think it does exist and there should be a better answer than death.

[dlfisher]

right, a lot of innocent get death sentenced a then get executed without any mercy, like it has been done in texas for years

You care to substantiate that allegation?

[taxexile]

read it one should be enough

yes francois , once was enough.

i am talking mostly about crimes of violence, robbery with violence,rape,and crimes against children and the old.

criminals will usually commit crimes because they think they can get away with it or that the gain from the crime will be greater than the loss due to the penalty, should they be caught. they feed on the kindness and sympathy of those who are against strong punishment.

i just think that that if the penalties are so draconian then fewer criminals will take the risk and the rest of us can get on with our lives in peace.

as for your island prison , yes it sounds fine, providing it is very cold,very wet and has lots of poisonous snakes.

as you have probably gathered by now, i have absolutely no mercy or sympathy for those who choose to live their lives by crime. they are worthless souls who make life difficult for those of us who like to integrate into society and live harmoniously with our neighbours.

trying to understand them, reform them,show them the right path etc. has never worked. something like 90% of offenders will go on to re-offend.

exclude them from society. they are disruptive .

you would put them on an island.

me ? i would end the lives of a lot of them, the rest can freeze on your island.

[seahorse]

So, you make a law saying it's wrong to kill people, then you kill the people who break this law. Isn't that hypocritical? 

So, what is your opinion?

How should we treat a person who has, say like, assaulted someone's daughter or wife, and then unmercifully raped her and at the end perhaps brutally killed her and dumped her body aside on a highway like a piece of trash? (perhaps imagine the victim is one of your love ones?)

Should we be like politely asking him to sit down and ask him if he knew what he had done was wrong? Telling him that he will be put behind bars and that if he behaves well he would be out of jail in a few years time and hopefully would contribute to the society?

Isn't that more hypocritical?

I am not sure if death penalty is right or wrong. But certainly do not think that it is hypocritical!

I thought it was obvious I was against it. In my opinion it's wrong to kill someone, whether it's an individual or the state doing it.

As to the scenario you're talking about, I can't say I would feel too kindly towards the perpetrator, but I would also say there is something seriously wrong with a person who does such a thing. And I would go further and ask YOU why people do this sort of thing knowing full well that there is a death penalty? It seems to me that the death penalty doesn't stop murders being committed. In fact, it seems that societies which have the death penalty have more murders.

I find it difficult to imagine that there is anywhere where someone would do such a thing and get out of prison "in a few years time." Surely it's more likely they would be locked up for the rest of their life. And speaking for myself, I would rather go for the death penalty than spend the rest of my life in prison. In other words, I think it's a bigger deterrent.

I think the focus of this debate is all wrong though. I think we have to face up to the fact that there are too many people committing crime and think of ways to stop it happening in the first place. There is too much talk about punishment and not enough about prevention. I would much rather the guy didn't assault and kill my loved ones in the first place.

[meemiathai]

Bonjour Francois,

please don't be so straight  not all criminals have planned their "crime" ...

If you are talking about something that happened instantly, say like, in a fight someone killed someone, this, I agree with you. No death penalty.(Still it's hard to tell if he had intended to kill him) And most of these cases, as far as I know, are not considered as murder cases and will not receive death sentence in most countries. But, I'd like to say that it doesn't have to be pre-planned for a crime to show one's evilness.(eg:to rape) I agree that it is very difficult(realistically) to distinguish between a person who had committed a crime just by chance or this person was indeed an evil! And that's why I still haven't voted yet.

I do agree with a life sentenced wich means LIFE!!

NOW!For this one, when you say life sentenced, are you expecting the villain to spend his LIFE in a 5***** hotel or in HEELL? If it is in heell, what difference does it make? (I would rather die than to spend the rest of my life in heell!) Isn't that hipocrytical to say that I am civilized, I would not kill you, but would put you in heell for the rest of your life?(NO DIFFERENCE!)If life is not to be SANOOK, life or death is the same for me!)

Another question;(no offense) if your wife was tortured(VERY BADLY) by someone for a period of time, and that this fukcing person is caught by you, what will you do? (For me, I will undoubtedly kill him, whatever the concequences are!)

And Begs,

I am sorry, I have just drunk a full bottle of PRODUIT DE FRANCE!

And yes, that's legal!

[meemiathai]

I would much rather the guy didn't assault and kill my loved ones in the first place.

Yes, Seahorse ,you are right! But how? It's just another topic! C'est la vie!

Have a nice day!