Ex-Thai PM Thaksin Hires War Crimes Lawyer

[gl9999]

The Tak Bai incident is an event that occurred on October 25, 2004 in Tak Bai, Thailand, which resulted in at least 85 deaths.

Six local men were arrested. A demonstration was organized to demand their release and the police called in army reinforcements. After some demonstrators threw rocks and attempted to storm the police station, security forces used tear gas and gunfire in response.

--

Where you guys see 3000 deaths?

Tak Bai, Kra Sue and the 'War on Drugs". All 3 roughly add up to 3000 deaths.

[wayfarer108]

another opinion

http://www.themarknews.com/articles/1583-r...ope-to-thailand

David Kilgour was a Member of the Canadian Parliament from 1979 to 2006, and also served as Deputy Speaker and Chair of the Committees of the Whole House, Secretary of State for Latin America & Africa, and Secretary of State for Asia-Pacific.

David Kilgour continues to be active in issues of human rights and international concern. He is co-chair of the Canadian Friends of a Democratic Iran, past chair of the Latin America and Caribbean policy working group of the Ottawa branch of the Canadian International council, a Fellow of the Queen's University Centre for the Study of Democracy and a director of the Washington-based Council for a Community of Democracies (CCD).

He and human rights attorney David Matas were recently awarded the 2009 Human Rights Prize of the International Society for Human Rights In Switzerland for their work in raising awareness of state-sponsored organ pillaging in China. They have also been nominated for the 2010 Nobel Peace Prize.

[senti]

Its amazing and somewhat disturbing the number of excuses people are coming up with to defend Abhisit.

Abhisit could have rounded them all off and sent them to gas chambers and we would still have people defending him.

Pretty bad troll mate, you'll need to try harder.

[senti]

still sad to see people who are blind as helen keller not to see the videos of all the red violence

Red violence doesnt involve with M16, Tavor, Rifle, Sniper etc.

And if you believe Reds use M79, it's fair for anti-Abhisit/elites to accuse this Gov as criminal against humanity due to the fact that this Gov ordered troops to use live ammu killing civilians.

Not a bad troll, but I am afraid that you might actually be serious, so it's kind of wasted

[Kilgore Trout]

What few marbles he hasn't already lost are surely cracked. The man responsible for mass murder during the war on drugs, Tak Bai, Krue Sae, the bird flu cover up, the disappearance of opposing lawyers, the murder of key witnesses against him, the puppet master behind the proxy government responsible for the Rohingya and Hmong repatriation policies, the caller for revolution, the pay master behind the threats to burn Bangkok down, decides to open a can of worms by investigating the current government of human rights abuses? Let's hope the government stop pussy footing about and abandon the Thai way of leaving your opponent some face. Let's hope they counter attack and show the world the real face of this monster before removing it completely.

I would have to agree with you; I also think it will be interesting to see how his supporters will act if he comes under fire. This whole situation has been difficult for me because I do sympathise with many of the rural poor's grievances' but at the same time see them being led by an immoral thug. I hope for their sake they are able to remove themselves from the yoke of this criminal (mastermind) and start to work towards equality in the right way.

[ballpoint]

What few marbles he hasn't already lost are surely cracked. The man responsible for mass murder during the war on drugs, Tak Bai, Krue Sae, the bird flu cover up, the disappearance of opposing lawyers, the murder of key witnesses against him, the puppet master behind the proxy government responsible for the Rohingya and Hmong repatriation policies, the caller for revolution, the pay master behind the threats to burn Bangkok down, decides to open a can of worms by investigating the current government of human rights abuses? Let's hope the government stop pussy footing about and abandon the Thai way of leaving your opponent some face. Let's hope they counter attack and show the world the real face of this monster before removing it completely.

I would have to agree with you; I also think it will be interesting to see how his supporters will act if he comes under fire. This whole situation has been difficult for me because I do sympathise with many of the rural poor's grievances' but at the same time see them being led by an immoral thug. I hope for their sake they are able to remove themselves from the yoke of this criminal (mastermind) and start to work towards equality in the right way.

I've lived in a small village in Buri Ram for well over a decade, and made my first visit here over two decades ago. There have been some huge changes in the way people live, from no electricity, no paved roads, no cars, motorbikes or tractors, and buffalo being the main source of horsepower, up to the situation now where all these things are common. Most of them coming well before anyone had ever heard of Thaksin. Having said that, I do agree that the rural poor have had it rough and deserve better from life; the problem is that they continue to vote for the same corrupt old group and their proxies, following the "short term gain (from vote buying and handouts) is better than long term investment in the future" philosophy, a philosophy shared by many shop keepers here. Education is probably the answer, and is something that Thaksin made little impact on, having identified the "short term gain" philosophy, and so buying his popularity with handouts and loans. There are those who have managed to climb out of the poverty trap by their own hard work, giving their children a better education, getting them better jobs, using the extra money to get their own children, and younger siblings, even better education and so on. Ironically, many of these were adversely affected by the red protests, and the ones who had their own very small businesses in Central World and other burned out centres, continue to be so affected. It was aptly summed up by the daughter of a friend of ours from the village, who had worked her way through tertiary education and got a job with a foreign company before saving enough to rent a small space in Central Chidlom, only to have to sit and wait out the extended closure of that shop due to the protests. Her words were to the effect of "these people are content to sit around all day, taking handouts every election, making no effort to improve themselves, and now they take money from Thaksin to come here and ruin the lives of those who did make the effort to do something". The reds gave no policy, no idea of what they ultimately wanted if they had have gotten their demands, no suggestions as to how they would have improved the lives of those supporting them (and certainly not how they'd improve the lives of the many poor who didn't support them). They were a sham. A facade. A veneer thinly coated over the backdrop of one man and supported by his arrogance and the money he has stolen from the very same poor people they profess to be for.

[rabo]

another opinion

http://www.themarknews.com/articles/1583-r...ope-to-thailand

David Kilgour was a Member of the Canadian Parliament from 1979 to 2006, and also served as Deputy Speaker and Chair of the Committees of the Whole House, Secretary of State for Latin America & Africa, and Secretary of State for Asia-Pacific.

David Kilgour continues to be active in issues of human rights and international concern. He is co-chair of the Canadian Friends of a Democratic Iran, past chair of the Latin America and Caribbean policy working group of the Ottawa branch of the Canadian International council, a Fellow of the Queen's University Centre for the Study of Democracy and a director of the Washington-based Council for a Community of Democracies (CCD).

He and human rights attorney David Matas were recently awarded the 2009 Human Rights Prize of the International Society for Human Rights In Switzerland for their work in raising awareness of state-sponsored organ pillaging in China. They have also been nominated for the 2010 Nobel Peace Prize.

An excellent view point. There was also a very good write up a couple of days ago from Time, one of the few news magazines that still looks at a story rather than their ratings. Sorry don't have the link right now, it is easy to find by googling time magazine and Thailand.

[enginerevision]

The Tak Bai incident is an event that occurred on October 25, 2004 in Tak Bai, Thailand, which resulted in at least 85 deaths.

Six local men were arrested. A demonstration was organized to demand their release and the police called in army reinforcements. After some demonstrators threw rocks and attempted to storm the police station, security forces used tear gas and gunfire in response.

--

Where you guys see 3000 deaths?

We were lucky, we didn't SEE it.

Depending on what sources you use you can get to

- 2500+ drugwar deaths

- 85 Tak Bai

- 32+ Krue Sae

Sad, but true and mostly ignored is that down south people are killed on a daily base. Some by terrorists, some by police/army. Try this as a starting point and venture from there

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/South_Thailand_insurgency

Okay, but it's a bit confusing? When I read for instance on Wiki , stating: Police Commander Sant Sarutanond reopened investigations into the deaths, and again claimed that few of the deaths were at the hands of the police.

So this would have made the " Thai Army " done the killings.

But then a bit later I read: After the 2006 coup, the military junta ordered another investigation into the anti-drug campaign.The committee concluded that as many as 1400 of the 2500 killed had no link to drugs.

--

So basically I'm reading: Armt investigates itself... " Amazing Thailand " ?

[mazeltov]

... the puppet master behind the proxy government responsible for the Rohingya and Hmong repatriation policies, ...

Would you care to explain?

As far as i know the ugly treatment of the Rohingya boat people happend under PM Abhisit. The 'repatriation policies' of the Hmong are agreements between the Junta Government and Leaders in Laos, Abhisits best friends.

Tak Bai, Krue Sae was an army job, the dissapearing people probably too, the same people who helped Abhisit last year with paper bullets and this year with killing terrorist in Bangkok.

[ding]

may he need a good lawyer.

[mazeltov]

Even Jacques Verges would not defend him.

I am sure Abhisit will be able to find another good lawyer if Jacques Verges will not defend him here.

[mazeltov]

Well, no real surprise from the megalomaniac. What never ceases to amaze me is how sordid the legal profession is. It is one of the few professions in the world that is truly without morals..... the irony.

I am sure the Dutch Proff is happy to take the money, but when a Government is held to account on war crimes for protecting it's citizens economy and infrastructure then the whole world is on a slippery slope. TiT

This is really funny. Doesn't he know what happened to those people accused of the War crim. Even if they had those lawyer they were all convicted

Who is the 'he' in your comment?

Did you miss the points what the lawyers are up to?

The statement by Thaksin's legal team accused the Thai government of "flagrantly breaching its obligations as a member of the international community and the United Nations Human Rights Council".

These lawyers appear as plaintiff, accusing the Abhisit Government. Is your opinion that Abhisit will end up convicted?

[rubl]

... the puppet master behind the proxy government responsible for the Rohingya and Hmong repatriation policies, ...

Would you care to explain?

As far as i know the ugly treatment of the Rohingya boat people happend under PM Abhisit. The 'repatriation policies' of the Hmong are agreements between the Junta Government and Leaders in Laos, Abhisits best friends.

Tak Bai, Krue Sae was an army job, the dissapearing people probably too, the same people who helped Abhisit last year with paper bullets and this year with killing terrorist in Bangkok.

Dear mazeltov, sometimes I think you may be a bit meshugga. You like to make statement covering many years AND then ask proof. As you say 'as far as I know' is NOT the same as 'this is correct, proven'. Following you challenge others to proof you're wrong. Well one fool can ask more questions than ten wise men can answer.

Tak Bai and Krue Sae were under the PM-ship of K. Thaksin. It may have been the army, but PM Thaksin was responsable. I'm sure you can find the quote about Tak Bai 'they were weak from the ramadan period', from K. Thaksin himself. Disappearing people probably, but sorry you asked proof, so don't start with probably.

Rohingya, see http://www.dvb.no/news/thailand-denies-rohingya-abuse/8232, complex, unclear, open for any fool to make statements, as you seem to know.

[mazeltov]

This being Thailand things are more complex than even a soap on TV would dare to show. Have a look at this article from November 2004

http://www.wsws.org/articles/2004/nov2004/thai-n26.shtml

Did you read what the WSWS, your source, has to say about the current government?

[rubl]

This being Thailand things are more complex than even a soap on TV would dare to show. Have a look at this article from November 2004

http://www.wsws.org/articles/2004/nov2004/thai-n26.shtml

Did you read what the WSWS, your source, has to say about the current government?

Did you read what I wrote? and some other replies you somehow seem to like to ignore?

[rubl]

This being Thailand things are more complex than even a soap on TV would dare to show. Have a look at this article from November 2004

http://www.wsws.org/articles/2004/nov2004/thai-n26.shtml

Did you read what the WSWS, your source, has to say about the current government?

Excuses, but put off by one hour difference in timestamp.

Edited May 31, 2010 by rubl

[erniebanks]

The UN has demanded an independent inquiry into recent unrest in Thailand, when more than 80 people were killed in clashes between security forces and protesters.

UN rights chief Navi Pillay said the guilty (Thai PM and generals) must be held accountable.

It will be comical watching him run from the international tribunal to come.

Hey--any of you working to post propaganda for this idiot PM? You too should quit or you will be risking the chance that you too will face the charges.

Reminds me of Serbia.

[rubl]

This being Thailand things are more complex than even a soap on TV would dare to show. Have a look at this article from November 2004

http://www.wsws.org/articles/2004/nov2004/thai-n26.shtml

Did you read what the WSWS, your source, has to say about the current government?

I was replying to

"And let's not forget two of the (many) war-cries of the UDD / red shirts

1. NO DOUBLE STANDARDS

2. DEMOCRACY AND EQUAL JUSTICE

So obviously the red shirts and their sympathizers will ensure that any action against Abhisit is instantly followed with demands for action against thaksin for 2,500 plus murders plus the two incidents in the south when hundreds of young Thai men were axphixiated and murdered.

Fair is fair!"

Don't try to confuse me with dubious questions or remarks.

What I said (see above) seems correct, even you like to obfuscate. Ever wondered if you could write soap-scripts ?

[rubl]

The UN has demanded an independent inquiry into recent unrest in Thailand, when more than 80 people were killed in clashes between security forces and protesters.

UN rights chief Navi Pillay said the guilty (Thai PM and generals) must be held accountable.

It will be comical watching him run from the international tribunal to come.

Hey--any of you working to post propaganda for this idiot PM? You too should quit or you will be risking the chance that you too will face the charges.

Reminds me of Serbia.

I found

http://www.un.org/apps/news/story.asp?News...ailand&Cr1=

and

http://news.therecord.com/article/720135

which has this paragraph

"In Geneva on Monday, the U.N. High Commissioner for Human Rights, Navi Pillay, said in a speech to the human rights council that while she recognized Thai authorities had the responsibility to restore order, "they must abide by international standards concerning the use of force and due process for those detained."

So what were you trying to say?

[Publicus]

... the puppet master behind the proxy government responsible for the Rohingya and Hmong repatriation policies, ...

Would you care to explain?

As far as i know the ugly treatment of the Rohingya boat people happend under PM Abhisit. The 'repatriation policies' of the Hmong are agreements between the Junta Government and Leaders in Laos, Abhisits best friends.

Tak Bai, Krue Sae was an army job, the dissapearing people probably too, the same people who helped Abhisit last year with paper bullets and this year with killing terrorist in Bangkok.

Thaksin with all of his miserable traits and characteristics had a refugee policy that was less severe (very cheap labor) than the harsh nationalistic policy that was put in force by the coup makers and which Abhisit inherited, then quickly reversed. Remember that the constant from the top policy, is that Thailand happens to be the only Asean country that allows escapee refugees from N Korea to enter Thailand AND to transit to a third country, most commonly S Korea or the US. Even Burma accepts refugees from N Korea but strictly prohibits their transit to a third country (slave labor). 

There are always ethnic groups being abused in SE Asia and in Thailand, as elsewhere in the world, but you who try to make something of this concerning Thailand have yet to point out any abuses by the Abhisit government in this respect. Abhisit hasn't any policy to oppress political refugees. Economic refugees to the former LOS always have been treated badly, this is a constant.

Is there is anyone who thinks or believes Abhisit would order the Rohingyas towed out to sea to die? If anyone thinks Abhisit is capable of such a crime against humanity, you would be sorely mistaken, grossly mistaken. Abhisit's not like that, nor would he want to be seen globally as in favor of cutting the Rohingyas loose in the sea to die a slow, awful agonizing death.

   

Edited May 31, 2010 by Publicus

[mazeltov]

another opinion

http://www.themarknews.com/articles/1583-r...ope-to-thailand

David Kilgour was a Member of the Canadian Parliament from 1979 to 2006, and also served as Deputy Speaker and Chair of the Committees of the Whole House, Secretary of State for Latin America & Africa, and Secretary of State for Asia-Pacific.

...

An excellent view point. There was also a very good write up a couple of days ago from Time, one of the few news magazines that still looks at a story rather than their ratings. Sorry don't have the link right now, it is easy to find by googling time magazine and Thailand.

The article have some inaccuracy and the writer didn't do his home work.

the article argues with referring to a Therdpoum Chaidee, saying he is a collaborator of the Red Shirt leadership and a former Thaksin-supporting MP. the later is true, he was a TRT MP, he was also a commie many years ago. But he isn't a red shirt collaborator, that is BS. nowadays Therdpoum is Therdpoum is also a PAD leader, facing an indictment on terrorism offences for the airport seizure, charged with instigating unrest and other criminal offences. Therdpoum is also one of the party executives of the New Politics Party.

Anyway, the article says it has the Therdpoum admission from the Le Figaro. would it be possible that the Le Figaro got it from Asia Times Online? ATO had also Therdpoum a couple of days ago on their pages, and without mentioning his PAD connection. just calling him a former comrade of Dr. Weng and ex-TRT.

I would not be surprised if David Kilgour has actually no clue and not much of an opinion but did only some stupid lazy copy and paste journalism work.

[rubl]

An excellent view point. There was also a very good write up a couple of days ago from Time, one of the few news magazines that still looks at a story rather than their ratings. Sorry don't have the link right now, it is easy to find by googling time magazine and Thailand.

The article have some inaccuracy and the writer didn't do his home work.

the article argues with referring to a Therdpoum Chaidee, saying he is a collaborator of the Red Shirt leadership and a former Thaksin-supporting MP. the later is true, he was a TRT MP, he was also a commie many years ago. But he isn't a red shirt collaborator, that is BS. nowadays Therdpoum is Therdpoum is also a PAD leader, facing an indictment on terrorism offences for the airport seizure, charged with instigating unrest and other criminal offences. Therdpoum is also one of the party executives of the New Politics Party.

Anyway, the article says it has the Therdpoum admission from the Le Figaro. would it be possible that the Le Figaro got it from Asia Times Online? ATO had also Therdpoum a couple of days ago on their pages, and without mentioning his PAD connection. just calling him a former comrade of Dr. Weng and ex-TRT.

I would not be surprised if David Kilgour has actually no clue and not much of an opinion but did only some stupid lazy copy and paste journalism work.

Inaccuracies, in an article? Right, an article you didn't quote, just one you doubt. Please can you remenber when last you agreed with anything posted here? Without a single, minor remark? I would be surprised, as like you say, some people don't seem to have no clue. I would never say a thing like that, probably because I have no clue

Anyway, my 2-cents worth, personal and as far as I can remember

[rubl]

... the puppet master behind the proxy government responsible for the Rohingya and Hmong repatriation policies, ...

Would you care to explain?

As far as i know the ugly treatment of the Rohingya boat people happend under PM Abhisit. The 'repatriation policies' of the Hmong are agreements between the Junta Government and Leaders in Laos, Abhisits best friends.

Tak Bai, Krue Sae was an army job, the dissapearing people probably too, the same people who helped Abhisit last year with paper bullets and this year with killing terrorist in Bangkok.

Thaksin with all of his miserable traits and characteristics had a refugee policy that was less severe (very cheap labor) than the harsh nationalistic policy that was put in force by the coup makers and which Abhisit inherited, then quickly reversed. Remember that the constant from the top policy, is that Thailand happens to be the only Asean country that allows escapee refugees from N Korea to enter Thailand AND to transit to a third country, most commonly S Korea or the US. Even Burma accepts refugees from N Korea but strictly prohibits their transit to a third country (slave labor). 

There are always ethnic groups being abused in SE Asia and in Thailand, as elsewhere in the world, but you who try to make something of this concerning Thailand have yet to point out any abuses by the Abhisit government in this respect. Abhisit hasn't any policy to oppress political refugees. Economic refugees to the former LOS always have been treated badly, this is a constant.

Is there is anyone who thinks or believes Abhisit would order the Rohingyas towed out to sea to die? If anyone thinks Abhisit is capable of such a crime against humanity, you would be sorely mistaken, grossly mistaken. Abhisit's not like that, nor would he want to be seen globally as in favor of cutting the Rohingyas loose in the sea to die a slow, awful agonizing death.

Please, your last paragraph is just a bait for crazy people, and there are lots of them. It seems it is not important what is true, but what people like to believe. The world seems less inclined at the moment to accept the truth unless it is nicely packaged, good sound-beat and with sexy girls around it.

[mazeltov]

But then a bit later I read: After the 2006 coup, the military junta ordered another investigation into the anti-drug campaign.The committee concluded that as many as 1400 of the 2500 killed had no link to drugs.

--

That doesn't mean that these 1400 are totally innocent victims that where killed in the name of the 'War in Drug'. These death where just wrongly added to statistics filed under drug related crimes.

The number of somewhat 2500/2700 is just the total number of violently death that occurred during the months of the war on drugs. The 1400 have been killed for other reasons, the normal crime that happen day by day in Thailand.

The number of death from the hand of police, law enforcement officers is much much more lower than 2500.

But 2500 looks much better if you wanna make propaganda against the regime.

[slapout]

Another number to consider (1400),?? I have no idea whose correct in the headcount, but do remember a child getting caught in the crossfire, between the police and child's parents, when the parents had no firearms (allegedly). Maybe in future operations 0f this magnitude we can get a real headcount by requiring a ear from each victim. It would not help the innocents but the display should settle the total number to most peoples satisfaction.

[mazeltov]

UN rights chief urges independent probe on Thai violence

(AFP)

GENEVA — UN human rights chief Navi Pillay called Monday for an independent probe into the recent deadly violence in Thailand and for those responsible for rights violations to be held to account.

"To foster longer-term political reconciliation, I urge the government to ensure that an independent investigation of recent events be conducted and all those found responsible for human rights violations are held to account," Pillay told the Human Rights Council at the opening of the latest session.

The comments came as Thailand's Prime Minister Abhisit Vejjajiva was accused in parliament of violating human rights when he ordered an army crackdown on opposition protesters that left 88 people dead.

The UN High Commissioner for Human Rights acknowledged that the Thai government had tried to resolve the deadlock and that the authorities had the responsibility of restoring order.

"In doing so, however, they must abide by international standards concerning the use of force and due process for those detained," she said.

Reacting to Pillay's call, Thai ambassador Sihasak Phuangketkeow told the Human Rights Council that "an independent commission is being set up to look into all the incidents that took place during the protests."

"The Thai government deeply regrets the loss of lives and injuries that occurred, and is committed to bringing those responsible to account so as to provide justice to those affected by these tragic incidents," he added.

The ambassador also stressed that the use of force by security forces was a "last resort" and in line with international standards.

He added that the government stood ready to be scrutinised for its handling of the protests.

"The government does not seek to evade any responsibility," he said.

"Let me stress that the Thai government is open to scrutiny and is ready to be subject to legal process in accordance with the law," he added.

-- ©Copyright AFP 2010-05-31

Published with written approval from AFP.

[newsfooter][/newsfooter]

[KireB]

That doesn't mean that these 1400 are totally innocent victims that where killed in the name of the 'War in Drug'. These death where just wrongly added to statistics filed under drug related crimes.

The number of somewhat 2500/2700 is just the total number of violently death that occurred during the months of the war on drugs. The 1400 have been killed for other reasons, the normal crime that happen day by day in Thailand.

The number of death from the hand of police, law enforcement officers is much much more lower than 2500.

But 2500 looks much better if you wanna make propaganda against the regime.

http://www.hrw.org/campaigns/aids/2004/thai.htm

From the Human Right Watch.

Edited May 31, 2010 by KireB

[asiawatcher]

1. There was/is no war!

2. These 'lawyers' will milk and continue to milk stupidity of all cash available. Scumbags of society.

[TPI]

Looking at the times most of these comments and opinions were posted I'd say that the posters were either sobering up or still in a bit of a haze...not a flame, merely an observation.

[mazeltov]

That doesn't mean that these 1400 are totally innocent victims that where killed in the name of the 'War in Drug'. These death where just wrongly added to statistics filed under drug related crimes.

The number of somewhat 2500/2700 is just the total number of violently death that occurred during the months of the war on drugs. The 1400 have been killed for other reasons, the normal crime that happen day by day in Thailand.

The number of death from the hand of police, law enforcement officers is much much more lower than 2500.

But 2500 looks much better if you wanna make propaganda against the regime.

http://www.hrw.org/campaigns/aids/2004/thai.htm

From the Human Right Watch.

http://www.hrw.org/reports/2004/thailand07...tm#_Toc76203868

In October 2003, Thailand’s foreign minister told the U.S. State Department that 2,593 homicide cases had occurred in the country since the previous February, more than double the normal level of about 400 homicides per month.15 On December 15, 2003, after the end of the first phases of the campaign, the Royal Thai Police reported 1,329 drug-related homicides (out of 1,176 separate incidents) since February, of which seventy-two (in fifty-eight incidents) had been killed by police. More than 70,000 people allegedly involved in the drug trade were arrested.

There were death during the War on Drugs and there were extrajudical killings and there are still ongoing investigations, no-one is denying that here.

But these numbers of around 2500/2700 counting all cases of homicides during that period.

A statement like "War on Drug = 2500/2700/3000 killing by Abhisit regime" is clearly not accurate.

People still repeating such claims didn't spend much time to inform themselves on that matter or keep repeating these figures only for propaganda purposes.