Thai PM Abhisit Under Fire Over Deadly Crackdown

[yoshiwara]

what could he do,they closed that part of town for 2 mths.he had few options left to sort it.

hold elections

Yes he offered that in November. They accepted and then reneged on the deal on orders from Montenegro.

Of course, you know that already, you just choose to ignore that fact.

I'm not getting into any more arguements with this yellow dominated board as it get's me into trouble with Mods - the answer is elections - always has been and always will be - let him win a genuine election and I will support whoever wins - fair enough? they are coming anyway - we shall see how much support the government has.

Yes elections are coming anyway by the end of 2011.

But that was not good enough for Thaksin.

His thugs attacked the people of Bangkok to force the resignation of the PM ahead of the scheduled elections.

To force the time and mode of elections to Thaksin's own schedule.

But above all to show who was in charge.

If he could not control, then he would destroy.

Thaksin in charge.

The attack on Bangkok was Thaksin's calling card.

Like the overreacher he is he overestimated his own side and underestimated the PM.

Deep down he knows he needs the army as well as the police force in his pocket in order to secure and consolidate state power.

He failed in 2006 and he failed in 2010.

Now he and you can wait.

[ChiangMaiFun]

Yes elections are coming anyway by the end of 2011.

But that was not good enough for Thaksin.

His thugs attacked the people of Bangkok to force the resignation of the PM ahead of the scheduled elections.

To force the time and mode of elections to Thaksin's own schedule.

But above all to show who was in charge.

If he could not control, then he would destroy.

Thaksin in charge.

The attack on Bangkok was Thaksin's calling card.

Like the overreacher he is he overestimated his own side and underestimated the PM.

Deep down he knows he needs the army as well as the police force in his pocket in order to secure and consolidate state power.

He failed in 2006 and he failed in 2010.

Now he and you can wait.

don't think so - they will be called this year - what ya going to say if your yellows lose? it's all Thaksins fault? you don't like democracy very much do you?

[jdinasia]

what could he do,they closed that part of town for 2 mths.he had few options left to sort it.

hold elections

Yes he offered that in November. They accepted and then reneged on the deal on orders from Montenegro.

Of course, you know that already, you just choose to ignore that fact.

CMF gloated over and over that the reds WON! They FORCED Abhisit to so something "he said he would never do". (Ignoring the fact that Abhisit had said from the beginning that early elections were possible! Then when the rally started Abhisit repeated the statement that early elections were possible. Then when the Gov sat down with Weng, Jatuporn, and Veera Abhisit AGAIN offered elections before the end of the year. The reds spat on the offer. Then with the roadmap he moved the date of the election offer up to Nov 14th. They accepted and then reneged again -- yet again spitting on any reconciliation.

Many times we heard the reds on the board make claims that the reds won! (Hey, let them think that way --- if the reds would have gone along with the roadmap for reconciliation who cares what people said ---- but NO --- they reject after accepting it ---- and try and burn BKK down. (Just like they threatened to BEFORE they even arrived in BKK!)

At this point the only path to reconciliation is holding those responsible for inciting terrorism and those that participated in the terrorism accountable. If and when they are found guilty just carry out the sentence. In the meantime, proceed with making the changes that are needed for Thailand to grow and prosper. The violence of the reds in BKK will take a long time to wipe out of the minds of potential tourists and get arrivals up again.

[ChiangMaiFun]

what could he do,they closed that part of town for 2 mths.he had few options left to sort it.

hold elections

Yes he offered that in November. They accepted and then reneged on the deal on orders from Montenegro.

Of course, you know that already, you just choose to ignore that fact.

CMF gloated over and over that the reds WON! They FORCED Abhisit to so something "he said he would never do". (Ignoring the fact that Abhisit had said from the beginning that early elections were possible! Then when the rally started Abhisit repeated the statement that early elections were possible. Then when the Gov sat down with Weng, Jatuporn, and Veera Abhisit AGAIN offered elections before the end of the year. The reds spat on the offer. Then with the roadmap he moved the date of the election offer up to Nov 14th. They accepted and then reneged again -- yet again spitting on any reconciliation.

Many times we heard the reds on the board make claims that the reds won! (Hey, let them think that way --- if the reds would have gone along with the roadmap for reconciliation who cares what people said ---- but NO --- they reject after accepting it ---- and try and burn BKK down. (Just like they threatened to BEFORE they even arrived in BKK!)

At this point the only path to reconciliation is holding those responsible for inciting terrorism and those that participated in the terrorism accountable. If and when they are found guilty just carry out the sentence. In the meantime, proceed with making the changes that are needed for Thailand to grow and prosper. The violence of the reds in BKK will take a long time to wipe out of the minds of potential tourists and get arrivals up again.

It's true they had won... but didn't know it - stupidly they lost that 'window' and were made to suffer as a result - they had forced, and won, the elections this year but argued amongst themselves and foolishly lost the gains but as a good Thai friend told me 'there are millions of 'quiet' reds who don't say anything but support the struggle' when the election is held let's see? There are many things to say but I shall get booted again - so I shall keep my own counsel and wait and see - what we can discuss is only half the story anyhow.

[Insight]

don't think so - they will be called this year - what ya going to say if your yellows lose? it's all Thaksins fault? you don't like democracy very much do you?

Who do you mean by "yellows" ?

[jdinasia]

CMF,

I think you may be one of the few people left in Thailand that thinks this whole mess wasn't about Thaksin! If the reds "Won" as you claim (in contradiction to all the facts) why didn't they accept the "win"? Very simply because elections after October did not suit Thaksin. This was never about Democracy! The reds NEVER spoke out for Democracy at all ... they just parroted what Thaksin told them to. Democracy is about checks and balances. Thaksin destroyed those whilst in office. Democracy is about an independant judiciary. Thaksin's lawyers were caught attempting to bribe the courts. (with an apallingly small amount of $). Democracy is NEVER about threatening to burn down a city. Yet that is what the reds threatened from BEFORE the red insurrectionist rally began.

There was no red "win", There was only more evidence of Thaksin attempting to control Thailand.

[ChiangMaiFun]

CMF,

I think you may be one of the few people left in Thailand that thinks this whole mess wasn't about Thaksin! If the reds "Won" as you claim (in contradiction to all the facts) why didn't they accept the "win"? Very simply because elections after October did not suit Thaksin. This was never about Democracy! The reds NEVER spoke out for Democracy at all ... they just parroted what Thaksin told them to. Democracy is about checks and balances. Thaksin destroyed those whilst in office. Democracy is about an independant judiciary. Thaksin's lawyers were caught attempting to bribe the courts. (with an apallingly small amount of $). Democracy is NEVER about threatening to burn down a city. Yet that is what the reds threatened from BEFORE the red insurrectionist rally began.

There was no red "win", There was only more evidence of Thaksin attempting to control Thailand.

it's about much more than Thaksin - but I shall say no more.

[KireB]

it's about much more than Thaksin - but I shall say no more.

[animatic]

what could he do,they closed that part of town for 2 mths.he had few options left to sort it.

hold elections

They tried that twice your Red team said NO twice.

[animatic]

don't think so - they will be called this year - what ya going to say if your yellows lose? it's all Thaksins fault? you don't like democracy very much do you?

Who do you mean by "yellows" ?

Anyone who isn't reds of course.

Same mindset as Thaksin, you're either 100% for him

or an enemy of the State of Thaksin Inc.

[jdinasia]

don't think so - they will be called this year - what ya going to say if your yellows lose? it's all Thaksins fault? you don't like democracy very much do you?

Who do you mean by "yellows" ?

Anyone who isn't reds of course.

Same mindset as Thaksin, you're either 100% for him

or an enemy of the State of Thaksin Inc.

Since most posters on the forum that are anti-Thaksin are not Pro PAD --- it is just a simplistic answer to call people "yellows" -- (I was pro-PAD until the PPP was dissolved) but since then they are just a useless quantity unless Thaksin threatens a comeback.

The sad thing is that the pro-Red people on the forum just don't realize that by supporting the Reds they ARE actually supporting Thaksin. They claim that Thaksin is now marginalized and unimportant but then cannot explain why the Reds failed to accept either of the two elections. (or Why the reds came to BKK already threatening to burn BKK down) --- The simple answer is STILL that elections after October do not work for Thaksin. The simple answer to the burning is explained by Thaksin, Sae Daeng, and Arisaman ---- the connections are clear. I hope the trials can move forward quickly!

[lungmi]

don't think so - they will be called this year - what ya going to say if your yellows lose? it's all Thaksins fault? you don't like democracy very much do you?

Who do you mean by "yellows" ?

Anyone who isn't reds of course.

Same mindset as Thaksin, you're either 100% for him

or an enemy of the State of Thaksin Inc.

Since most posters on the forum that are anti-Thaksin are not Pro PAD --- it is just a simplistic answer to call people "yellows" -- (I was pro-PAD until the PPP was dissolved) but since then they are just a useless quantity unless Thaksin threatens a comeback.

The sad thing is that the pro-Red people on the forum just don't realize that by supporting the Reds they ARE actually supporting Thaksin. They claim that Thaksin is now marginalized and unimportant but then cannot explain why the Reds failed to accept either of the two elections. (or Why the reds came to BKK already threatening to burn BKK down) --- The simple answer is STILL that elections after October do not work for Thaksin. The simple answer to the burning is explained by Thaksin, Sae Daeng, and Arisaman ---- the connections are clear. I hope the trials can move forward quickly!

I just come home from a democrat election party in one of the poorest province of Thailand . THEY WIN AND I'M DRUNKEN.

[Kusobusisi]

It's true they had won... but didn't know it - stupidly they lost that 'window' and were made to suffer as a result - they had forced, and won, the elections this year but argued amongst themselves and foolishly lost the gains but as a good Thai friend told me 'there are millions of 'quiet' reds who don't say anything but support the struggle' when the election is held let's see? There are many things to say but I shall get booted again - so I shall keep my own counsel and wait and see - what we can discuss is only half the story anyhow.

A good Thai friend told me 'there are millions' of 'quiet' Red haters who don't say anything but hate the Reds. When the election is held, let's see. It's always easy to quote 'friends' and other unknown people to give unsubstantiated arguments and get the last word in, isn't it?

Don't quote us nameless sources nor pretend to know more then us and blame the mods for not allowing you to post anything. You just make yourself look like one of those smart alecky people who pretends to know more then the nothing he does.

[animatic]

Touché!

[mazeltov]

what could he do,they closed that part of town for 2 mths.he had few options left to sort it.

hold elections

They tried that twice your Red team said NO twice.

'your red team'? Does anyone who says: 'ELECTION' belongs to the red team?

smells like "yellow logic" aka Blah blah & BS.

And the Abhisit government never tried to hold elections. not twice, not once. the opposite is true, Abhisit tries everything to avoid elections.

This government has a small support of around 25% of the people.(and half of the 25% would probably vote for New Politics Party in a coming election)

[Kusobusisi]

what could he do,they closed that part of town for 2 mths.he had few options left to sort it.

hold elections

They tried that twice your Red team said NO twice.

'your red team'? Does anyone who says: 'ELECTION' belongs to the red team?

smells like "yellow logic" aka Blah blah & BS.

And the Abhisit government never tried to hold elections. not twice, not once. the opposite is true, Abhisit tries everything to avoid elections.

This government has a small support of around 25% of the people.(and half of the 25% would probably vote for New Politics Party in a coming election)

They were offered the November elections, remember? Reds said yes then the chief from Montenegro called and Reds rebuffed the offer? Why is it Red sympathizers just always seem to ignore that fine point?

[mazeltov]

They tried that twice your Red team said NO twice.

'your red team'? Does anyone who says: 'ELECTION' belongs to the red team?

smells like "yellow logic" aka Blah blah & BS.

And the Abhisit government never tried to hold elections. not twice, not once. the opposite is true, Abhisit tries everything to avoid elections.

This government has a small support of around 25% of the people.(and half of the 25% would probably vote for New Politics Party in a coming election)

They were offered the November elections, remember? Reds said yes then the chief from Montenegro called and Reds rebuffed the offer? Why is it Red sympathizers just always seem to ignore that fine point?

you know there is a difference between: talking lots of words about be willing to offer to hold an election or just holding an election.

[Kusobusisi]

you know there is a difference between: talking lots of words about be willing to offer to hold an election or just holding an election.

The government gave into most of their demands, including the ridiculous one with Suthep. And still they wanted more. It was obvious it was the Reds DIDN'T want the elections.

Maybe elections in November was just talk but it was probably for real and sincere. We'll never know now will we? All because Montenegro said no.

Anyway, look who's on top now? Red leaders are in jail. Elections are to be held in 18 months instead of 6. And the Reds after trying to burn down the city look exactly like the terrorists PM Abhisit called them out to be.

Maybe the Reds will win in 18 months, maybe the Democrats and their allies will. Whatever the case, the people who hate the Red thugs can savor this moment. I know I will.

[yoshiwara]

They tried that twice your Red team said NO twice.

'your red team'? Does anyone who says: 'ELECTION' belongs to the red team?

smells like "yellow logic" aka Blah blah & BS.

And the Abhisit government never tried to hold elections. not twice, not once. the opposite is true, Abhisit tries everything to avoid elections.

This government has a small support of around 25% of the people.(and half of the 25% would probably vote for New Politics Party in a coming election)

They were offered the November elections, remember? Reds said yes then the chief from Montenegro called and Reds rebuffed the offer? Why is it Red sympathizers just always seem to ignore that fine point?

you know there is a difference between: talking lots of words about be willing to offer to hold an election or just holding an election.

Both sides agreed a timetable for an election process.

Then Seh Daeng announced that he had direct communications with Thaksin and that the deal was off.

The red leaders were not amused.

Seh Daeng got a bullet in the head for his troubles.

And the rioting started.

Thaksin had his own precise timetable and an election was not the top item on his agenda.

He has lost that timetable now.

You know but you don't like to.

[mazeltov]

you know there is a difference between: talking lots of words about be willing to offer to hold an election or just holding an election.

Both sides agreed a timetable for an election process.

Then Seh Daeng announced that he had direct communications with Thaksin and that the deal was off.

The red leaders were not amused.

Seh Daeng got a bullet in the head for his troubles.

And the rioting started.

Thaksin had his own precise timetable and an election was not the top item on his agenda.

He has lost that timetable now.

You know but you don't like to.

remember last year?

Timetable in May 2009:

Prime Minister Abhisit Vejjajiva yesterday pledged to resolve animosity between rival groups and foster reconciliation in six to eight months to pave the way for a snap election.

"If things proceed as anticipated, then I aim to steer the country out of the present turmoil and bring about normalcy in six to eight months, following which I won't mind dissolving the House," he said.

The Nation Published on May 1, 2009

Abhisit promises to hold elections. Do you believe that? 55555. foolish.

[Siam Simon]

I want to see the best of Abhisit, and I believe he's capable of a lot. But before the latest round of unrest he was spending way too much time doing PR work covering up the wrongdoings of others and being sent on photo ops, whilst others who I don't want to see wielding power at all were getting on with day-to-day business. On the odd occasion that he spoke out for the good, such as over the fake bomb detector, he was slapped down. And, in my opinion, that particular issue contributed to the botched management of the recent protests.

It will be more than interesting to see how Abhisit's premiership unfolds post-protests. I think he's more compromised than ever. But I may be wrong and hope I am.

Edited June 8, 2010 by cdnvic
removed quote of deleted post

[mazeltov]

Both sides agreed a timetable for an election process.

Then Seh Daeng announced that he had direct communications with Thaksin and that the deal was off.

The red leaders were not amused.

Seh Daeng got a bullet in the head for his troubles.

And the rioting started.

Thaksin had his own precise timetable and an election was not the top item on his agenda.

He has lost that timetable now.

You know but you don't like to.

remember last year?

Timetable in May 2009:

Prime Minister Abhisit Vejjajiva yesterday pledged to resolve animosity between rival groups and foster reconciliation in six to eight months to pave the way for a snap election.

"If things proceed as anticipated, then I aim to steer the country out of the present turmoil and bring about normalcy in six to eight months, following which I won't mind dissolving the House," he said.

The Nation Published on May 1, 2009

Abhisit promises to hold elections. Do you believe that? 55555. foolish.

Was the country 'steered out of turmoil'? Obviously not. So no, why should PM Abhisit have called for elections when the Reds were still up to their mischief?

You Reds want to see the worst in PM Abhisit but you guys still refuse to see the shit stains on yourselves.

What means "You reds"? don't be an Abhisit fanboi makes me to an red shirt?

anyway, don't remember last year?

look at the TIMETABLE.

only 5 month later Abhist had indeed 'steered the country out of turmoil' and 'normalcy was restored'

Timetable September 27, 2009

Prime Minister Abhisit Vejjajiva said yesterday that his visit to the United States would help improve Thailand's image in the international community and show

the country's readiness to resume its role in world forums.

"Thailand has been absent from the global stage for a long time. Now we have made a comeback," he said.

Abhisit said he had reassured foreign political and business leaders he met during his visit that

the country had returned to normalcy

.

The prime minister said he believed business leaders now had a better understanding of and

increased confidence in Thailand.

...

US visit will boost Thailand's image: PM - Nationmultimedia.com

Abhisit promises to hold elections. Do you believe that? 55555. foolish.

most of the Abhisit admirer are actually just Thaksin haters but don't even know what Abhisits talks all day long and what kind of statements he makes. And what the governments propaganda lines are and what not. For Abhisit the red shirts were ordinary citizens, innocent people demanding democracy.

Edited June 8, 2010 by cdnvic
removed quote from deleted post

[cardholder]

...

most of the Abhisit admirer are actually just Thaksin haters but don't even know what Abhisits talks all day long

I quite admire Abhisit for what he has achieved, in difficult circumstances.

I don't give a flying fart about Thaksin.[/indent]

[Siam Simon]

Touché!

So you're quite happy to backslap a poster who joined the forum yesterday and has since posted exclusively about politics in News Clippings then, Ralph? I hope we've all noted this for the next time Ralph casts aspersions on another poster's credibility.

[yoshiwara]

Timetable in May 2009:

Prime Minister Abhisit Vejjajiva yesterday pledged to resolve animosity between rival groups and foster reconciliation in six to eight months to pave the way for a snap election.

"If things proceed as anticipated, then I aim to steer the country out of the present turmoil and bring about normalcy in six to eight months, following which I won't mind dissolving the House," he said.

The Nation Published on May 1, 2009

Abhisit promises to hold elections. Do you believe that? 55555. foolish.

Yes I do.

Clearly Abhisit in 2009 underestimated the unremitting resolve of Thaksin to destroy if he wasn't yielded the spoils of Thailand.

2010 showed Abhisit very clearly that Thaksin's thugs were not prepared for any negotiated peace.

Now that there is an opportunity for normalcy after your mates have been booted out of Bangkok, elections can take place within the scheduled period up to end 2011.

Within the period of normalcy hopefully the government can break some the financial lines between Thaksin and his thugs and remove Thaksin influence from the police force.

Forum red cheerleaders...direction unknown. Phone Montenegro.

[mazeltov]

Don't quote us nameless sources nor pretend to know more then us and blame the mods for not allowing you to post anything. You just make yourself look like one of those smart alecky people who pretends to know more then the nothing he does.

I agree with you, but unfortunately pretenders and wannabe experts a quite common here in the threads about thai politics. not the smartest people.

sometimes they can cause or even :facedesk: but most of the time its fun. they are easy to detect and even easier to expose and to debunk.

Anyway WELCOME to the board, lets have a quality time, share our knowledge and an interesting debate.

[Abrak]

Yes I do.

Clearly Abhisit in 2009 underestimated the unremitting resolve of Thaksin to destroy if he wasn't yielded the spoils of Thailand.

2010 showed Abhisit very clearly that Thaksin's thugs were not prepared for any negotiated peace.

Now that there is an opportunity for normalcy after your mates have been booted out of Bangkok, elections can take place within the scheduled period up to end 2011.

Within the period of normalcy hopefully the government can break some the financial lines between Thaksin and his thugs and remove Thaksin influence from the police force.

Forum red cheerleaders...direction unknown. Phone Montenegro.

Actually I liked the first 10 words of your post. Clearly Abhisit totally underestimated Thaksin's resolve. Infact I believe that Thaksin's whole political agenda was massively underestimated which is why Abhisit wouldnt even contest an election against him.

Thaksins strategy was very sensible and efficient - namely to move funds to N/NE. He realized that the root to power was embracing the poor rather than ignoring them. (And before anyone says he didnt achieve these goals just go to the NESDB, ADB or World Bank statistics.) That I believe will be the lasting legacy of Thaksin and one that the Democrats have already begun to embrace.

[KireB]

I agree with you, but unfortunately pretenders and wannabe experts a quite common here in the threads about thai politics. not the smartest people.

sometimes they can cause or even :facedesk: but most of the time its fun. they are easy to detect and even easier to expose and to debunk.

Anyway WELCOME to the board, lets have a quality time, share our knowledge and an interesting debate.

Self reflective skills are non existent, I see!

You are the same poster who claims that farang Reds are highly educated and intelligent and that everyone not supporting the red menace must be a whore mongering bar fly with barely more than a elementary school degree.

Hardly an interesting and intelligent point of view so to speak, innit?

[rabo]

They tried that twice your Red team said NO twice.

'your red team'? Does anyone who says: 'ELECTION' belongs to the red team?

smells like "yellow logic" aka Blah blah & BS.

And the Abhisit government never tried to hold elections. not twice, not once. the opposite is true, Abhisit tries everything to avoid elections.

This government has a small support of around 25% of the people.(and half of the 25% would probably vote for New Politics Party in a coming election)

They were offered the November elections, remember? Reds said yes then the chief from Montenegro called and Reds rebuffed the offer? Why is it Red sympathizers just always seem to ignore that fine point?

you know there is a difference between: talking lots of words about be willing to offer to hold an election or just holding an election.

You know, it takes two parties to agree. The difference you speak of is the difference between saying "yes" and "no" when offered elections. Or burning down the city, whatever.

[ChiangMaiFun]

what could he do,they closed that part of town for 2 mths.he had few options left to sort it.

hold elections

They tried that twice your Red team said NO twice.

agreed it was foolish - I have said that many posts ago - they should have left when the Nov date was given with heads held high - I accept, totally, how foolish this was not to do so.