Thai PM Abhisit Under Fire Over Deadly Crackdown

[gl9999]

Abhisit is starting to sound like a clown with his pathetic excuses and inability to take responsibility.

I'm positively surprised that the cr*p didn't start until Post # 5 - I honestly expected it to start much sooner...

If it wasn't for Abhisit things could have turned out A LOT worse... be grateful he was so patient! I know no other PM or country that would have tolerated this abuse for so long. Do you Sgt. Pepper?

I don't know what is more pathetic, posters making lame excuses for Abhisits crimes or Abhisits own lame excuses.

Posters attacking Abhisit while ignoring Thaksin's crimes(3000 dead Thais hello!) is even more pathetic.

[gl9999]

Newsflash; Over a TWO MONTH period it is.

Maybe its just me, but putting a time limit on the value of a human life like that is unacceptable.

If 'peaceful protesters' want to live, they shouldn't be packing assault rifles and grenade launchers.

Duh.

Great comment "Ha" If I run the TV networks. I would have rolled tanks, machine guns and airforce planes in there to, Then showed it on TV to the nation and say if I didnt kill these 88 people they would have destroyed Bangkok. DONT BELIEVE EVERYTHING ON TV.

Yes let's just all pretend that the protesters really were peaceful and that they didn't have weapons and that Central World burned down via spontaneous combustion. This way, Abhisit really is guilty! "Ha"

[ozzieman05]

Here are videos from the conference Abhisit gave to foreign diplomats on saturday.

At points in the video the signal is lost.

Well it took a while but I really enjoyed watching them

I had always thought that the PM was a good leader for Thailand

but after watching the vids I have changed my mind

The present PM is not just good but a great leader

well spoken and answered all questions with no hesitations and to the point

I can see that he looks you straight in the eye when he replies and does not try to hide away like many of the leaders in todays word

He is well respected by his peers at the meeting

and is humble enough to listen to suggestions

For all those who are against the present PM, watch these vids

and if you still can not see the leader that will take Thailand out of its problems

You are ever blind and deaf

or a disciple of Thaskin and Black will be white if he tells you so

[Humungus]

The PM bent over backwards to avoid violence, but the protesters refused to cooperate.

Newsflash: Killing 80+ people isn't exactly "bending over backwards to avoid violence".

Well not killing 5000 is pretty good. How many people did the reds try to kill when they set fire to occupied buildings? How many civilians and police are an acceptable amount for the reds to have killed before they should be stopped? Allowing those nuts to run loose for so long shows a hesitation to resort to violence, something the reds never had. I'd estimate that at least 10-20 of the dead were either soldiers, police, or other non reds. So only killing 60 reds in a two month confrontation with an armed group of militants is a low figure. The 80 killed includes those killed by the reds. How many did the Jamaicans kill in their attempt to arrest that drug lord? At least 44 in an operation that only lasted days. Compared with the Jamaicans the final crackdown was a resounding success, they arrested most of the leaders. Maybe in the future the Thai example will be the standard for how to deal with attempts to start a civil war.

All those 90 killed may have packing assault rifles and grenade launchers with them when they were shot.

All the weapons must have been removed before the body were removed.

Implying that all 90 were shot or that all 90 were reds is a gross distortion of the truth. A number of those killed were non red civilians like ambulance drivers, journalists, innocent bystanders, police and soldiers. 24 or so died April 10 when more traditional forms of crowd control were used. 36 or so died on May 19, not all of whom were reds. Idiots throwing moltov cocktails are not unarmed bystanders, but active combatants. Arsonists and looters are criminals. Would you suggest that they be allowed to run wild and burn more buildings? Setting fire to the Channel 3 building endangered the lives of those inside. Why are the lives of innocent citizens worth less than criminals? Why should the people of Bangkok be subject to terror at the hands of thugs? 20 maybe 30 reds died May 19 out of a crowd of thousands, I'd say the army was being pretty selective.

[ozzieman05]

The PM bent over backwards to avoid violence, but the protesters refused to cooperate.

Newsflash: Killing 80+ people isn't exactly "bending over backwards to avoid violence".

you sound like the Farang morons that are behind bars.

Your out look is distorted, Killing 80+ people isn't exactly "bending over backwards to avoid violence is correct if he could have done it with no one being killed

But is totally incorrect if his non removal led to the end of law and order on the streets of Bangkok

where thousand would have dies not such a small number

You have lost the truth of fact

10 times more people die on the streets of Thailand during Songkran

Time you got your priorities in balance

[ozzieman05]

Abhisit is starting to sound like a clown with his pathetic excuses and inability to take responsibility.

And when are the Red Shirts going to take responsibility for burning down our city? It's so hypocritical of Pheu Thai to attack the Prime Minister when one of their own was right out there inciting the riots.

Most of the 80 killed were killed trying to violently overthrow the government. Just because they call themselves 'peaceful protesters' doesn't make it so. They got what was coming to them.

Please remember the Government are presently on the hot seat

But after this thanks to Thousand of Thais the opposition will be in the same seat in the near future

Remember people who live in glass houses should not throw stones

Your point now may turn around and bite you

[hansum]

Why is it if you say anything against this govt or that these killing should never have taken place youre automatically thrown in to the red apologist camp ... is it not possible to think that Thaksin is not a decent person and that several red leaders werent keen to negotiate (ie give and take) aswell as thinking this govt. has no true interest in democracy and got into power one way or another via a military coup and the army/govt were exceptionally trigger happy when clamping down ... maybe seeing that guy who was walking around aimlessly waving a red flag; head melt when it was hit by a bullet in the first crackdown shows that they werent aiming for the mysterious so called terrorist blackshirts or shooting people who posed a threat .... that shooting was nothing less then state sponsored murder.

[321niti123]

I've been watching it on tv, looks like the opposition did their hwk, although some of their evidences and accusations just makes them look uneducated while others make the govt look like an evil totalitarian.

[Humungus]

Plus the journalists they aren't reds, and some of those were red victims too and the woman killed in the skytrain attack.

Two journalists died Hiroyuki Muramoto and Fabio Polenghi, Mr Polenghi appears to have been shot by the army see here. Hiroyuki died on April 10 and it seems he was standing with the army when he was shot so we can assume he was shot by blackshirts.

Other journalists who were shot but lived include Nelson Rand and Nation photographer Chaiwat Pumpuang both of whom were shot by army. While a Canadian journalist Chandler was hit by shrapnel from a grenade fired at the army positions, which also injured 3 soldiers quite seriously, again Blackshirts must be responsible for this.

The Sala Daeng M79 attack now that is a strange one remember what Suthep told us "The M79 grenades were fired from behind the Rama 6 monument", this was 3 hours after the grenade attack in a statement on ASTV. Also Deputy Bangkok Governor Thirachon Manomaipibul said video records from security cameras of the BTS' Saladaeng station showed that m79 grenades were fired from the Lumpini Park. We still haven't seen this video evidence.

Then we have Khunying MD Pornthip telling us in her report that the grenades were fried from inside Chulalongkorn hospital see here.

The same hospital that refused to treat police officers injured fighting the PAD in 2008.see here.

So it is not so clear cut to me where this BTS attack can be attributed to.

Their ought to be an inquiry into the actions of journalists during the protests. While watching TV there always seemed to be dozens of reporters in very dangerous areas. I think they put themselves at risk and they should acknowledge their reckless behavior that endangered themselves and potentially some of the soldiers who they were with. I know they want to tell the story, but many "journalists" were freelance and maybe hoping to make a buck with the best shots. Given their actions I don't think the government could have protected them all, consider that many from a distance would have appeared exactly like the reds. Black vests and motorcycle helmets. I hope they think twice before running into similar situations in the future.

[ozzieman05]

'chaoyang'

It's a tough one. AGREE

* A mob takes over part of the city and basically says it will never go away unless it gets everything it wants.

I AM SORRY TO TELL YOU IN MOST COUNTRIES YOU ARE ALLOWED TO HAVE A PROTEST OR RALLY FOR AS LONG AS YOU LIKE AS LONG AS IT IS PEACEFUL. ESPECIALLY WESTERN COUNTRIES.

* An extremist member member (Seh Daeng) is assassinated and his still-breathing corpse is charged with terrorism.

* Finally the army moves in with live ammunition and 80+ civilians are killed.

WHAT HAS THE ARMY GOT TO DO WITH ANY OF THIS?

* After the group is fired on by the army of its own country, some members apparently torch highly valuable properties.

Ya, there are a few human rights violations in there, but then Abhisit tried every other means and showed a great deal of patience (either that of the army refused to move earlier).

YES MANY HUMAN RIGHTS VIOLATIONS THROUGH HIS TENURE AS WELL AS THE PREVIOUS GOVT'S.

If a group had taken and terrorized Times Square in New York, the US National Guard would have opened fire after about the second day, not the 60th, but then in "free" America, protesters wouldn't have been able to pull off what the Reds did in BKK. They would have been shot before the barricades ever got up. IN AMERICA IF THE PROTESTERS ARE PEACEFUL THEY WOULD NOT SEND THE ARMY IN WITH ANTI AIRCRAFT GUNS ARMOURED VEHICLES ETC. THEY WOULD NOT SEND THE ARMY IN FULL STOP. IF OVER 100 PEOPLE DIED AND WENT MISSING AND IT WAS STATE CONTROLLED THE GOVERNOR WOULD RESIGN. IF THE PRESIDENT SENT THE ARMY IN AND OVER 100 DIED AND WENT MISSING THE PRESIDENT WOULD RESIGN.

Lets face it Abhisit has made too many mistakes, I agree he had a difficult job but he screwed it, and should show accountability and resign.

At least we all can agree Thailand would be in Civil war now if you had any say in the matter

The PM used so much patience it was incredible

after 2 months of mayhem he cleaned up the city with minimal death if you compare to death on the road at Songkran, which we know is quiet acceptable to Thai's

We can see the world ambassadors give credit to the PM

it seems your on your own

Oh great disciple of Thaiskin

[gl9999]

Why is it if you say anything against this govt or that these killing should never have taken place youre automatically thrown in to the red apologist camp ... is it not possible to think that Thaksin is not a decent person and that several red leaders werent keen to negotiate (ie give and take) aswell as thinking this govt. has no true interest in democracy and got into power one way or another via a military coup and the army/govt were exceptionally trigger happy when clamping down ... maybe seeing that guy who was walking around aimlessly waving a red flag; head melt when it was hit by a bullet in the first crackdown shows that they werent aiming for the mysterious so called terrorist blackshirts or shooting people who posed a threat .... that shooting was nothing less then state sponsored murder.

If I tyrant who kills 3000 of his own people, who steals from his country, who is probably the most corrupt Prime Minister this country has seen isn't taken down by parliament or the courts, why shouldn't a coup do it then? Who cares if the poor idiots from the north voted for him? Does that make him less of a thief and a murderer? The liberals always cry about how Thaksin was taken down in a coup. Yet they seem to ignore his crimes.

As for the clamp down, standard water cannons, rubber bullets and tear gas aren't going to work if the other side is FIRING LIVE BULLETS AT YOU. Like the old saying goes, you don't bring a knife to a gun fight. In this case, you don't use less lethal weaponry when the other is FIRING LIVE BULLETS AT YOU.

State sponsored murder? Well I would like to once again talk about Thaksin's 3000. To you, a coup to take him down was bad after he killed 3000 Thais? Gee, where's your righteousness when it comes to the beloved leader? You cry for 80 dead rebels but you ignore the 3000. How righteous!

[jdinasia]

Does anyone know the international standards for evicting a large mob of criminals from a barricaded section of a major city? What is done in the UK or the USA when armed terrorists occupy the streets and attack security forces? Suggesting that there is a standard method for dealing with the Thai crisis is ridiculous, when has a similar event happened anywhere else?

A similar event occured in in Thailand in 2008, when a large mob of facist criminals barricaded different sections of the city for a total of 192 days. The government response was to allow the protest to continue until the large mob of criminals got what they wanted and the protest ended.

Ummm no

In 2008 a (by far and large) peaceful group of protesters staged an illegal act of civil disobedience for a long time. It did not cripple the financial center of the city.

The Reds were told they could remain at PanFah Bridge as long as they wanted. The problem is that Thaksin needed faster action which is why they moved to try and cripple the government by both armed terrorism and financial terrorism.

[Democrat]

Does anyone know the international standards for evicting a large mob of criminals from a barricaded section of a major city? What is done in the UK or the USA when armed terrorists occupy the streets and attack security forces? Suggesting that there is a standard method for dealing with the Thai crisis is ridiculous, when has a similar event happened anywhere else?

But Chad dont you remember this was a peaceful rally till the army marched in. Abhisit or whoever had control stuffed it right up. They let the UDD, PT, whoever, right in the door. The traffic was still flowing it was like a carnival for many people not only the reds. That fateful night apr10 the army marched towards the protesters, no barricades. All hel_l broke loose, what a stuff up. Had the controller, Abhisit, whoever, waited for them to make a wrong move. He would be a hero,

The nightly grenade attacks in Bangkok and the periodic street battles with the army are evidence this was not a peaceful protest. Sure with so many clowns it will feel like a carnival, but that's not the whole story. On April 10 the protesters tried to storm an army barracks, that set the tone for the night that followed. You are also the forgetting that on April 10 the militant reds used the confrontation to launch armed attacks on the army killing several soldiers. Peaceful rally surely you jest.

The nightly grenade attacks by who? Why has not one person been caught? A bit like the new years eve bombs. If the storming of the army barracks is the one led by Veea, that is where the red was talking to the officer over the fence as they were both trying to avoid confrontation. From memory a few days before some red shirt protesters forced there way into parliament? If the army had of kept away how would the militants been able to launch armed attacks on the soldiers, by marching in with armoured cars etc. you are inciting confrontation. It seems to me Abhisit was trying to stay a step ahead of the red shirts. Firstly, an ISA before they had even rallied. Then telling the world they had protected buildings with army personnel, why not just place them without all the bignoting of oneself. This was like putting a sign on all these buildings attack me. Then an emergency decree. Then an emergency decree in provinces with many red supporters, where there had been many protests with little trouble. They just seemed to be making bad decisions in many cases, trying to cover themselves, but when speaking to reporters not allowing questions. Abhisit even seemed to disappear for a few days. Unfortunately too many blunders, people died and as in most western countries, the person at the top resigns.

Edited May 31, 2010 by Democrat

[473geo]

You know Ozzieman, if you and others would just absorb the fact that while people may not dislike the current government, they may disagree with some aspects, and therefore cut out your childish name calling generalisations, perhaps your voices may be heard and your words read with more interest.

Just a thought.

[gl9999]

Does anyone know the international standards for evicting a large mob of criminals from a barricaded section of a major city? What is done in the UK or the USA when armed terrorists occupy the streets and attack security forces? Suggesting that there is a standard method for dealing with the Thai crisis is ridiculous, when has a similar event happened anywhere else?

But Chad dont you remember this was a peaceful rally till the army marched in. Abhisit or whoever had control stuffed it right up. They let the UDD, PT, whoever, right in the door. The traffic was still flowing it was like a carnival for many people not only the reds. That fateful night apr10 the army marched towards the protesters, no barricades. All hel_l broke loose, what a stuff up. Had the controller, Abhisit, whoever, waited for them to make a wrong move. He would be a hero,

The nightly grenade attacks in Bangkok and the periodic street battles with the army are evidence this was not a peaceful protest. Sure with so many clowns it will feel like a carnival, but that's not the whole story. On April 10 the protesters tried to storm an army barracks, that set the tone for the night that followed. You are also the forgetting that on April 10 the militant reds used the confrontation to launch armed attacks on the army killing several soldiers. Peaceful rally surely you jest.

The nightly grenade attacks by who? Why has not one person been caught? A bit like the new years eve bombs. If the storming of the army barracks is the one led by Veea, that is where the red was talking to the officer over the fence as they were both trying to avoid confrontation. From memory a few days before some red shirt protesters forced there way into parliament? If the army had of kept away how would the militants been able to launch armed attacks on the soldiers, by marching in with armoured cars etc. you are inciting confrontation. It seems to me Abhisit was trying to stay a step ahead of the red shirts. Firstly, an ISA before they had even rallied. Then telling the world they had protected buildings with army personnel, why not just place them without all the bignoting of oneself. This was like putting a sign on all these buildings attack me. Then an emergency decree. Then an emergency decree in provinces with many red supporters, where there had been many protests with little trouble. They just seemed to be making bad decisions in many cases, trying to cover themselves, but when speaking to reporters not allowing questions. Abhisit even seemed to disappear for a few days. Unfortunately too many blunders, people died and as in most western countries, the person at the top resigns.

Prime Minister Abhisit made a few mistakes for sure. But then, he did exercise restraint and even gave into most of the demands made. The deaths could have been prevented if after they had accepted the compromise, they dispersed. Unfortunately, the dogs' owners wouldn't allow it and so the crack down had to happen.

The Prime Minister performed well under these circumstances and I for one don't shed a tear for most of the people who were killed because they were rebels who tried to overthrow the government. I do feel bad for the reporters and medics who were killed doing their jobs though. The rest of them had it coming.

[MAJIC]

Newsflash; Over a TWO MONTH period it is.

Maybe its just me, but putting a time limit on the value of a human life like that is unacceptable.

How long did you want the Anarchists to hold the Country to Ransom then? or burn down the Country wholesale? with

their outrageous demands?

Whether you like it or not PM Abhisit showed amazing leadership qualities, and restraint,no western Government would

have tolerated for more than a few days,let alone 2 months!

[jdinasia]

Plus the journalists they aren't reds, and some of those were red victims too and the woman killed in the skytrain attack.

Two journalists died Hiroyuki Muramoto and Fabio Polenghi, Mr Polenghi appears to have been shot by the army see here. Hiroyuki died on April 10 and it seems he was standing with the army when he was shot so we can assume he was shot by blackshirts.

Other journalists who were shot but lived include Nelson Rand and Nation photographer Chaiwat Pumpuang both of whom were shot by army. While a Canadian journalist Chandler was hit by shrapnel from a grenade fired at the army positions, which also injured 3 soldiers quite seriously, again Blackshirts must be responsible for this.

The Sala Daeng M79 attack now that is a strange one remember what Suthep told us "The M79 grenades were fired from behind the Rama 6 monument", this was 3 hours after the grenade attack in a statement on ASTV. Also Deputy Bangkok Governor Thirachon Manomaipibul said video records from security cameras of the BTS' Saladaeng station showed that m79 grenades were fired from the Lumpini Park. We still haven't seen this video evidence.

Then we have Khunying MD Pornthip telling us in her report that the grenades were fried from inside Chulalongkorn hospital see here.

The same hospital that refused to treat police officers injured fighting the PAD in 2008.see here.

So it is not so clear cut to me where this BTS attack can be attributed to.

2 things ----

The Italian reporter apparently died from a bullet. It is in no way apparent that the Army fired the bullet. It is reported that fire was going from several directions. It indicates snipers. It doesn't indicate who those snipers were.

..

Pornthip says that she concludes that grenades were fired from there (Chula) ... she also defends the bomb detector --- (I used to be ger biggest fan!) I do not think that anybody could conclude when/which grenades were fired from there. I also believe that the residue that would result may be similar to the residue left by other weapons. (Grenades very well MAY have been fired from there! Who fired them?)

[noel2499rk]

Does anyone know the international standards for evicting a large mob of criminals from a barricaded section of a major city? What is done in the UK or the USA when armed terrorists occupy the streets and attack security forces? Suggesting that there is a standard method for dealing with the Thai crisis is ridiculous, when has a similar event happened anywhere else?

A similar event occured in in Thailand in 2008, when a large mob of facist criminals barricaded different sections of the city for a total of 192 days. The government response was to allow the protest to continue until the large mob of criminals got what they wanted and the protest ended.

Ummm no

In 2008 a (by far and large) peaceful group of protesters staged an illegal act of civil disobedience for a long time. It did not cripple the financial center of the city.

The Reds were told they could remain at PanFah Bridge as long as they wanted. The problem is that Thaksin needed faster action which is why they moved to try and cripple the government by both armed terrorism and financial terrorism.

It was mainly peaceful I agree with you, it was mainly peaceful because the security forces made hardly any effort to remove them. On the one day that a sustained operation was enacted to remove the PAD 7/10/2008, 4 police were shot, a PAD supporter died trying to detonate a car bomb, 3 police seriously injured after being run over by a pick up truck and numerous ping pong grenades were thrown.

The PAD were not labeled as terrorists, instead the police backed off ( the army had no role in security operations against PAD) and allowed them to take over the airport.

Since then the only action taken against the PAD has been to make one of them foreign minister, hardly a heavy punishment.

[473geo]

Newsflash; Over a TWO MONTH period it is.

Maybe its just me, but putting a time limit on the value of a human life like that is unacceptable.

How long did you want the Anarchists to hold the Country to Ransom then? or burn down the Country wholesale? with

their outrageous demands?

Whether you like it or not PM Abhisit showed amazing leadership qualities, and restraint,no western Government would

have tolerated for more than a few days,let alone 2 months!

Greenham Common Women's Peace Camp. 1981 - 2000

[koosdeboer]

Tonight at CNN 7,12 men in black footage close and identifiable.

[passon]

Abhisit is starting to sound like a clown with his pathetic excuses and inability to take responsibility.

And when are the Red Shirts going to take responsibility for burning down our city? It's so hypocritical of Pheu Thai to attack the Prime Minister when one of their own was right out there inciting the riots.

Most of the 80 killed were killed trying to violently overthrow the government. Just because they call themselves 'peaceful protesters' doesn't make it so. They got what was coming to them.

If it's "your city," then I guess it is "your country" too! And by "one of their own" do you mean a separate class of citizenry or something perhaps, less? And if one person acts indifferently, then everyone else within their party should be considered guilty by association and therefore relinquish their right to criticize, or "attack" as you put it, the Prime Minister?

The 80 people who were killed, I believe that number included the women who was killed in Silom, a nurse, two emergency responders, two journalist and others who were unarmed; so, were they trying to "violently" overthrow the government? Did they all get what was coming to them?

It sounds to me like you are suffering from a severe case of elitism that has diminished your ability to be objective. How sad you are.

[Rucharee]

Tonight at CNN 7,12 men in black footage close and identifiable.

Wild goose chase?

[jdinasia]

Newsflash; Over a TWO MONTH period it is.

Maybe its just me, but putting a time limit on the value of a human life like that is unacceptable.

How long did you want the Anarchists to hold the Country to Ransom then? or burn down the Country wholesale? with

their outrageous demands?

Whether you like it or not PM Abhisit showed amazing leadership qualities, and restraint,no western Government would

have tolerated for more than a few days,let alone 2 months!

The issue is and was ---- Armed mob threatening the peace and stability of the Kingdom.

[jdinasia]

Newsflash; Over a TWO MONTH period it is.

Maybe its just me, but putting a time limit on the value of a human life like that is unacceptable.

How long did you want the Anarchists to hold the Country to Ransom then? or burn down the Country wholesale? with

their outrageous demands?

Whether you like it or not PM Abhisit showed amazing leadership qualities, and restraint,no western Government would

have tolerated for more than a few days,let alone 2 months!

Greenham Common Women's Peace Camp. 1981 - 2000

Were they armed and threatening to burn down London even before they encamped there? There's always a Geo

[gl9999]

Abhisit is starting to sound like a clown with his pathetic excuses and inability to take responsibility.

And when are the Red Shirts going to take responsibility for burning down our city? It's so hypocritical of Pheu Thai to attack the Prime Minister when one of their own was right out there inciting the riots.

Most of the 80 killed were killed trying to violently overthrow the government. Just because they call themselves 'peaceful protesters' doesn't make it so. They got what was coming to them.

If it's "your city," then I guess it is "your country" too! And by "one of their own" do you mean a separate class of citizenry or something perhaps, less? And if one person acts indifferently, then everyone else within their party should be considered guilty by association and therefore relinquish their right to criticize, or "attack" as you put it, the Prime Minister?

The 80 people who were killed, I believe that number included the women who was killed in Silom, a nurse, two emergency responders, two journalist and others who were unarmed; so, were they trying to "violently" overthrow the government? Did they all get what was coming to them?

It sounds to me like you are suffering from a severe case of elitism that has diminished your ability to be objective. How sad you are.

One of their own meaning a Pheu Thai MP, ie Jatuporn. If your English sucks and you don't understand what I'm writing, do yourself a favor and ask for a clarification rather looking like an idiot trying to put words in my mouth. And don't try to tell us that Jatuporn was a 'peaceful protest leader' either. We all know otherwise.

And yes, I did say MOST of the 80 killed didn't I? The ones not included in the 'most' are the medics and reporters killed. As for the others, they got what was coming to them. Their comrades in arms had rifles and grenade launchers and they also knew a crackdown was coming. It's not like the government didn't give them a chance to leave. They were there by choice trying to overthrow the government. If they died, they died.

You call me an elitist. Of course, you would call me that. It's to be expected from a Red shit. I mean I must be a Bangkok elite if I don't support them right?

Edited May 31, 2010 by gl9999

[jayboy]

Newsflash; Over a TWO MONTH period it is.

Maybe its just me, but putting a time limit on the value of a human life like that is unacceptable.

How long did you want the Anarchists to hold the Country to Ransom then? or burn down the Country wholesale? with

their outrageous demands?

Whether you like it or not PM Abhisit showed amazing leadership qualities, and restraint,no western Government would

have tolerated for more than a few days,let alone 2 months!

The issue is and was ---- Armed mob threatening the peace and stability of the Kingdom.

It's a rather harsh way to describe the military thugs who gunned down civilians in the back but I see what you're getting at and you're entitled to your view.Unfortunately the Thai army has a way of covering their tracks as we have seen from other massacres like Tak Bai so I doubt anyone will be brought to justice.I dare say the little poodle Abhisit now preening himself is not going to challenge them.But well done on raising the issue.

[Democrat]

Does anyone know the international standards for evicting a large mob of criminals from a barricaded section of a major city? What is done in the UK or the USA when armed terrorists occupy the streets and attack security forces? Suggesting that there is a standard method for dealing with the Thai crisis is ridiculous, when has a similar event happened anywhere else?

A similar event occured in in Thailand in 2008, when a large mob of facist criminals barricaded different sections of the city for a total of 192 days. The government response was to allow the protest to continue until the large mob of criminals got what they wanted and the protest ended.

Ummm no

In 2008 a (by far and large) peaceful group of protesters staged an illegal act of civil disobedience for a long time. It did not cripple the financial center of the city.

The Reds were told they could remain at PanFah Bridge as long as they wanted. The problem is that Thaksin needed faster action which is why they moved to try and cripple the government by both armed terrorism and financial terrorism.

Wow jdinasia illegal act of disobedience, first day of protest block roads and don't allow school children through to get to school. Then takeover govt buildings for days on ends and ransack the buildings, takeover 3 or 4 airports and hold hostages. No the yellows did not cripple the financial centre. Why is the baht so strong and the share index so strong throughout the red shirts rally? They crippled tourism. And yes the reds have crippled tourism as well. Maybe the govt thought the redshirts were going to be copycats, but they didnt block the roads for a long time, they allowed people to go about there business, and in the end caused a huge riot(nearly as big as LA's riots or is that LA's terrorism). Many questions everywhere, much speculation, no answers. Govt wants to put there facts forward, without answering questions, Why? When the yellow shirts were protesting did the govt of the day answer questions to the press or were they the same as it is now? I cant recall as the politician said to the judge!

[Rucharee]

Plus the journalists they aren't reds, and some of those were red victims too and the woman killed in the skytrain attack.

Two journalists died Hiroyuki Muramoto and Fabio Polenghi, Mr Polenghi appears to have been shot by the army see here. Hiroyuki died on April 10 and it seems he was standing with the army when he was shot so we can assume he was shot by blackshirts.

Other journalists who were shot but lived include Nelson Rand and Nation photographer Chaiwat Pumpuang both of whom were shot by army. While a Canadian journalist Chandler was hit by shrapnel from a grenade fired at the army positions, which also injured 3 soldiers quite seriously, again Blackshirts must be responsible for this.

The Sala Daeng M79 attack now that is a strange one remember what Suthep told us "The M79 grenades were fired from behind the Rama 6 monument", this was 3 hours after the grenade attack in a statement on ASTV. Also Deputy Bangkok Governor Thirachon Manomaipibul said video records from security cameras of the BTS' Saladaeng station showed that m79 grenades were fired from the Lumpini Park. We still haven't seen this video evidence.

Then we have Khunying MD Pornthip telling us in her report that the grenades were fried from inside Chulalongkorn hospital see here.

The same hospital that refused to treat police officers injured fighting the PAD in 2008.see here.

So it is not so clear cut to me where this BTS attack can be attributed to.

2 things ----

The Italian reporter apparently died from a bullet. It is in no way apparent that the Army fired the bullet. It is reported that fire was going from several directions. It indicates snipers. It doesn't indicate who those snipers were.

..

Pornthip says that she concludes that grenades were fired from there (Chula) ... she also defends the bomb detector --- (I used to be ger biggest fan!) I do not think that anybody could conclude when/which grenades were fired from there. I also believe that the residue that would result may be similar to the residue left by other weapons. (Grenades very well MAY have been fired from there! Who fired them?)

GT200?

[grayfield18]

The PM bent over backwards to avoid violence, but the protesters refused to cooperate.

Newsflash: Killing 80+ people isn't exactly "bending over backwards to avoid violence".

Newsflash --- The protesters were ARMED. The protesters KILLED people. Of the 88 killed we do not at the moment know how many were killed by the protesters. The protest leaders CONSTANTLY threatened violence.

When people join an armed insurrection and then attack static security forces (forces that were NOT closing in on the main protest site, and were only creating a perimeter) then the blame ONLY lies with the protesters.

Individual deaths that it can be determined were caused by security forces violating orders should be dealt with individually.

Maybe in France they have already proven who caused each death, including those on April 10th that were shot from INSIDE red controlled area where there were no governent troops.

I am not aware of anyone who has pronounced on the cause of death of each person who died.

It is plain though that some people blame the Reds and others the government.

Neither side is going to believe the investigations depending on who has done them.

All this just goes to show the real problem is so entrenched that it is not going to be sorted out very simply.

There needs to be something along the lines of what happened with the truth and reconciliation in South Africa. It is not for me to say as i am a falang and not even in Thailand at the moment.

I don't think that much will be resolved by little bits of biting at posters on these sites. I wish that more thought would be put into a way forward than what has happened in the past.

I have been involved in some of that in the past and have come to the conclusion that it is not the way forward.

The positives are that the Thai's do not have a Country divided in the appalling way that South Africa was and that maybe there is some hope for the future.

[jdinasia]

Does anyone know the international standards for evicting a large mob of criminals from a barricaded section of a major city? What is done in the UK or the USA when armed terrorists occupy the streets and attack security forces? Suggesting that there is a standard method for dealing with the Thai crisis is ridiculous, when has a similar event happened anywhere else?

A similar event occured in in Thailand in 2008, when a large mob of facist criminals barricaded different sections of the city for a total of 192 days. The government response was to allow the protest to continue until the large mob of criminals got what they wanted and the protest ended.

Ummm no

In 2008 a (by far and large) peaceful group of protesters staged an illegal act of civil disobedience for a long time. It did not cripple the financial center of the city.

The Reds were told they could remain at PanFah Bridge as long as they wanted. The problem is that Thaksin needed faster action which is why they moved to try and cripple the government by both armed terrorism and financial terrorism.

It was mainly peaceful I agree with you, it was mainly peaceful because the security forces made hardly any effort to remove them. On the one day that a sustained operation was enacted to remove the PAD 7/10/2008, 4 police were shot, a PAD supporter died trying to detonate a car bomb, 3 police seriously injured after being run over by a pick up truck and numerous ping pong grenades were thrown.

The PAD were not labeled as terrorists, instead the police backed off ( the army had no role in security operations against PAD) and allowed them to take over the airport.

Since then the only action taken against the PAD has been to make one of them foreign minister, hardly a heavy punishment.

Hmmm more lies

There is no proof a PAD supported died "trying to detonate a carbomb", and in fact it is more likely that a PAD supporter was assassinated by a carbomb.

The Reds attacked the PAD on the night of Sep 1st (resulting in 1 dead red)

There were no police killed on Oct 7th. The day that the police completely surrounded the protesters and fired RDX laced military use CS gas directly at protesters killing one.

There are tapes that have been used to suggest that PAD were firing at police but when examined showed that the guy with the gun at the wall was aiming not out at police lines but AT PAD. There is video showing the police aiming (not sure about using) lethal weapons (guns) at protesters.

One policeman injured by the pickup.

PAD labeed as terrorists.

BUT --- this isn't a thread about the PAD

This thread is about Abhisit and his almost inhuan RESTRAINT in dispersing a violent armed mob from the center of BKK.

Oh --- sorry ---- forgot to confront the BIGGEST lie you told. The PAD leadership have been charged and have made appearances in court. The cases are ongoing.

Edited May 31, 2010 by jdinasia