Growing Wild Highland Mango

[Mangilook]

I am interested in growing wild mango from highlands, does anyone know nurseries or locations where fruits/seeds available?

David

[Foreverford]

Hey new buddy can you tell us why you want to do this? Do you know that in the skin of a mango (and even in the meat too) are toxins similar to what is found in poison oak and poison ivy. I used to be able to eat them and now i get a real bad rash if I do ( from most varieties). From what I have heard here in Buri Ram is the wild mangoes have similar effects on the locals so they shy away from the wild ones around this area. Maybe you or someone else could dial us in on what the story is. choke dee

[Lizard2010]

Very interesting.

I will have to remember when someone offers me a Mango.

[oldestswinger]

We've a couple of wild mangoes on the farm. Can't say I've had any problem eating them or any of the other mangoes

[Mangilook]

Sorry to get a bit nerdy, but you did ask! The Mango is related to Cashew, Pistacio and poison ivy. The sap of Mango is an irritant, some people more than others like with most irritants. Whey you pick a mango if you let the sap get on the fruit it will leave a mark known as sap burn. These properties don't continue to the fruit, its just the sap. The fruit is like a giant vitamin pill. The shell of cashews is toxic with the same chemical as poison ivy, but the nut is OK if properly prepared to make sure there are no traces of the toxin.

There are over 70 identified species of the genus mangifera, and the normal mango is Mangifera indica which is highly cultivated ( for around 4000 yrs). All of the others or even the primitive form of common mango could be called wild mango and the type of fruit and characteristics varies a lot. It is considered that if you started with any of a number of these wild mangos and did the amount of breeding that M.indica has had then the cultivated mango we have today could easily be from one of the other species.

The reason I'm interested is that I'd like to try to see what I can do with a wild mango from the cooler highland areas and see it it crosses with the normal mango to get a mango that will grow better in cooler places. There are a few species adapted to highland areas over 1200 metres, so I'm interested in any that come from that sort of country. I'm not concerned that they are not good fruiting types.

[Foreverford]

Sorry to get a bit nerdy, but you did ask! The Mango is related to Cashew, Pistacio and poison ivy. The sap of Mango is an irritant, some people more than others like with most irritants. Whey you pick a mango if you let the sap get on the fruit it will leave a mark known as sap burn. These properties don't continue to the fruit, its just the sap. The fruit is like a giant vitamin pill. The shell of cashews is toxic with the same chemical as poison ivy, but the nut is OK if properly prepared to make sure there are no traces of the toxin.

There are over 70 identified species of the genus mangifera, and the normal mango is Mangifera indica which is highly cultivated ( for around 4000 yrs). All of the others or even the primitive form of common mango could be called wild mango and the type of fruit and characteristics varies a lot. It is considered that if you started with any of a number of these wild mangos and did the amount of breeding that M.indica has had then the cultivated mango we have today could easily be from one of the other species.

The reason I'm interested is that I'd like to try to see what I can do with a wild mango from the cooler highland areas and see it it crosses with the normal mango to get a mango that will grow better in cooler places. There are a few species adapted to highland areas over 1200 metres, so I'm interested in any that come from that sort of country. I'm not concerned that they are not good fruiting types.

Choke Dee There was a man by the name of Olmos who lived in the Sacramento area of California who took an oriental rug and a few items and threw them over his shoulder and trekked the mountains of Afghanistan and surrounding nations in seazrch of grape stock. He found one that produced about 150 grapes on a cluster tinier than the last digit of your baby finger. It proved to be the savior of the modern wine grape industry as most great vines all have this as their rootstock. Maybe and hopefully we will hear of you on foot and elephant back searching the high country for cuttings to create a new "London Fog" strain of the "apricot of the tropics" your friend the mango. thanks for the info and be advised there definitely is a bit of the "oak" in the skin and the fruit of all those delicious fruit. I was highly allergic to poison oak as a youth and was always able to eat the semi-native mexican baja type and the hybridized Kent variety. One day,25 years ago, my lips started to be irritated and eventually i associated the irritation to mangos and then read a bit about it. i was smart and ended up deep peeling the Kents and then just got big chunks of the deep near the pit meat and then would put it into the back of my mouth by-passing the lips for an easy solution. hah The next day I had a patch of poison appear on my stomach just below the rib cage. You know I couldn't go forever without eating another mango so I eventually tried it again (oh they taste so sweet) and dang if I didn't get the poision oak looking reaction in nearly the exact same place on my body. i had to go up and chop the heck out the interior of an old big boy tree of the family's this year and I ended up swelling up a bunch in a bunch of places, such it is for me, but we still planted more than a half a dozen more and hope to be able to plant plenty more soon with good rains. Choke dee in your searches and i will keep an eye pealed and maybe just head out that way before the winter smog rolls in and see if I can itch something up. I'll also tell my old Ford tractor to keep an air filter open for any info

[Mangilook]

Great story about the grapes!

Thanks for the info about the reaction, I know how you feel, I developed a reaction to prawns, crabs & the like early in my '20s. With Mango, their flavour is formed by a complicated mix of compounds, so hopefully it may be just one of them that sets you off. There is quite a range of flavours in the different varieties, so maybe some varieties could be better for you if they have less of that bit that sets you off. Or, with cashews I think the raw types (those that aren't roasted) are steamed to make sure the residue of the fruit is gone, maybe try steamed mango!

I think you are right in that there could be a a holy grail for mango breeders in the wild ones. I might just give Afghanistan a miss for now. There are a lot of things that bother them in cultivation, some disease susceptability, drought tolerance, fruiting seasons, fruit setting and more. I thought that one you could grow in cold places would be good as there are a lot of places they don't do too well when frosts come.

[drtreelove]

I don't know a lot about propagation, but I love the wild mango trees for their great size, structural form and beauty. I wouldn't expect to find many in nurseries, but I know where some extraordinary specimens are located in Chiang Mai, Pai and Mae Hong Son if you want to collect seeds or maybe find seedlings nearby. One of them is on the grounds of Dokmai Garden (botanical garden) in Hang Dong district of Chiang Mai. www.dokmaigarden.co.th Contact Eric, the resident PhD plant physiologist there, who may be willing to help you collect and propagate seeds from their tree. But it is growing at about 300 meters elevation. The largest specimen I have seen is on the highway just past the center of the town of Pai, a litter higher elevation.

Also, my friend Ricky of Chiang Mai and Nan, the 'Jonny Appleseed' reforestation enthusiast of northern Thailand, gets around more than I do, and is an expert in native trees. Get in touch with him through Eric or PM to me. Good luck and please keep us posted on your efforts.

I have another friend who is looking for a wild mango tree to plant on his homestead/integrated farm. He knows the nurseries around the greater Chiang Mai area better than I do; I'll ask him if he has found any and let you know. don

[Mangilook]

Thanks for your thoughts and contacts. It looks like Ricky is the guy to speak to. Eric has been very helpful too. I'll let you know how I go.

[soidog2]

Just a thought for Mr. Ford,

Around here we have this mango trees called " mamuang galon", older very large trees .

The fruit is about the size of a soap bar, the odd thing is, we eat them together with the skin.

It's deliciously sweet & sour. The skin has light vegetable flavor, blends nice with actual fruit.

You will be hard pressed to find it in any market unless some grandma needs pocket money.

We just wait for the fruit to fall down, than collect it & eat it.

Older people eat it with rice, no ill-effects whatsoever !

Best

Edited June 18, 2010 by soidog2

[Foreverford]

Just a thought for Mr. Ford,

Around here we have this mango trees called " mamuang galon", older very large trees .

The fruit is about the size of a soap bar, the odd thing is, we eat them together with the skin.

It's deliciously sweet & sour. The skin has light vegetable flavor, blends nice with actual fruit.

You will be hard pressed to find it in any market unless some grandma needs pocket money.

We just wait for the fruit to fall down, than collect it & eat it.

Older people eat it with rice, no ill-effects whatsoever !

Best

Thanks Doggeroo but for me a monster Kent from my Baja farm was as fine or even finer than the home grown apricots I grew up on. Bigger than a grapefruit and golden glory with the fragrance of the gods. All just memories now but enough so that I don't want to eat or try to eat any others. I don't think I would have problems with that variety as i have eaten some green mango before by mistake with no bad results. hey a little side line, in California you can buy organic Baja Mexico cherry tomatoes year round and they won't compare to some of your heirloom varieties of beefstakes but wow each little critter is a explosion of flavor off the vine from your back yard. we need to get some new varieties going here that could eventually be a new commercial variety in the country. I'll be bringing back a bunch of seeds this trip and have my scouts out in Mexico for seeds for the monster Pasilla Chiles that we use to make chile rellenos the good variety goes for nearly $1000 a pound. I'll try to mail them out to as many folks as need them when I get them and get back. Boy would i love to see them easily grown here.

With the Ford out to pasture and my golf bag over the shoulder and filled with clubs and fishing gear sure as your born, natural, I'm on the road again.

[Mangilook]

Hey Soidog

These very old mamuang galon trees sound interesting! So I'll just bombard you with some questions.

Just wondering if this is a normal mango tree , an early model, or if it might be a different species.

Can you describe the shape of it...is it like a normal mango, does it have much of a beak (pointy end), how does the skin compare to normal mango..is it much different ..like a different mango variety, or is it really different?

Where abouts are you, what is the altitude there? Have you got any idea of what the name might mean? Do you know when its fruiting season is?

Thanks

Just a thought for Mr. Ford,

Around here we have this mango trees called " mamuang galon", older very large trees .

The fruit is about the size of a soap bar, the odd thing is, we eat them together with the skin.

It's deliciously sweet & sour. The skin has light vegetable flavor, blends nice with actual fruit.

You will be hard pressed to find it in any market unless some grandma needs pocket money.

We just wait for the fruit to fall down, than collect it & eat it.

Older people eat it with rice, no ill-effects whatsoever !

Best

[soidog2]

Your quest is intriguing, happy to help.

Location & elevation , please see attached GPS screen shot

Size & shape, Leaf picture attached as well. The tree itself has the classic mushroom canopy, grows quite tall easily over 10m.

According to local people it may be a cross between a wild mango ( fruit similar in size but hard as a rock and you definitely cannot eat the skin. ) and something else.

I do not know yet what but I will find out.

The name and take this with a grain of salt, may mean unreliable, also has something to do with the fact, the flesh separates easily from the seed.

Fruiting season is normal, April / May/ June.

This year because of the drought & very high temperature fruit set was extremely low.

Best regards

]

Edited June 20, 2010 by soidog2

[Mangilook]

Thanks for the info Soidog. Local cultivars like these are unique and unfortunately may be in danger of being lost. It would be good to see the local people continue to keep replanting these varieties. Unfortunately as time goes on and forests are cleared they are lost. I'm not sure if this one will be a highland variety, but I'd like to hear any news you can find out about it.

[Mangilook]

Soidog

I've done a bit of reading, and in Buri Ram, the wild species Mangifera caloneura is recorded, which is also the species that is at at Dokmai garden mentioned by drtreelove. I see on their web site ( www.dokmaigarden.co.th ) they have some seedlings available at the moment, as well as a photo of the tree. Their fruit is described as smooth, yellowish to orange, mango shaped, 5 - 6 cm long , pulp whitish with a sweet - acid taste.

There is a local name listed, Ma muang paa (Ma = fruit, muang = mango, paa = forest), but also mentions that this is a name applied to any wild mango.

Does this sound like it?

[drtreelove]

Soidog

I've done a bit of reading, and in Buri Ram, the wild species Mangifera caloneura is recorded, which is also the species that is at at Dokmai garden mentioned by drtreelove. I see on their web site ( www.dokmaigarden.co.th ) they have some seedlings available at the moment, as well as a photo of the tree. Their fruit is described as smooth, yellowish to orange, mango shaped, 5 - 6 cm long , pulp whitish with a sweet - acid taste.

There is a local name listed, Ma muang paa (Ma = fruit, muang = mango, paa = forest), but also mentions that this is a name applied to any wild mango.

Does this sound like it?

You're making me hungry for khao niew mamuang.

[soidog2]

Soidog

I've done a bit of reading, and in Buri Ram, the wild species Mangifera caloneura is recorded, which  is also the species that is at at Dokmai garden mentioned by drtreelove.  I see on their web site ( www.dokmaigarden.co.th ) they have some seedlings available at the moment, as well as a photo of the tree.  Their fruit is described as smooth, yellowish to orange, mango shaped, 5 - 6 cm long , pulp whitish with a sweet - acid taste.

There is a local name  listed, Ma muang paa  (Ma = fruit, muang = mango, paa = forest), but also mentions that this is a name applied to any wild mango.  

Does this sound like it?

The fruit description matches . The other day, I went to the Pak Chong horticultural station to have some Avocado seedlings grafted.

I asked about " mamuang galon " ; they said, it is a very old type, crosspolinated from the wild with something unknown.

The acid test for your tree; find out if the skin is edible, than you have a match.

The are many varieties out there that are very similar in look but not in taste.

Best   

[Mangilook]

Thanks Soidog for asking about the mamuang galon. Do you think they meant that it is a cultivated Mango crossed with a wild species? If it has unique characteristics in flavour it would be worth trying, sounds unique. Have you seen any fallen fruit around recently?

Dr Treelove, I've received some seeds from that tree near Pai from Ricky! ... have planted them today, so their long journey has now started! I'm not sure if it is the same species as the one at Dokmai garden yet, may need to wait till it flowers to be sure what it is, unless I can get some flowers or photos of them next Feb (flowering season) from that tree. The shape of the tree certainly looks different and I expect it is a different species, but the location of it is not of particularly high altitude, around 400metres above sea level. I wonder how long that road has been there as if it has been there longer than the tree I suppose the seed may have even been from a fruit eaten by someone travelling from a different area. The first photo (bluer sky) is the tree near Pai and the other one is the Dokmai garden one.

I have come across the record of a highland species which seems rare or uncommon, and at any rate relatively unknown. It is only recorded in Thailand and has been found up to 1200 metres. The only records I have seen is from the Chiang Mai region. The flowers have been described but there is no record of what the fruit is like. That would be an interesting one to find! It's recorded local name is " Ma muang ching reet".

[soidog2]

Thanks Soidog for asking about the mamuang galon. Do you think they meant that it is a cultivated Mango crossed with a wild species? If it has unique characteristics in flavour it would be worth trying, sounds unique. Have you seen any fallen fruit around recently?

Dr Treelove, I've received some seeds from that tree near Pai from Ricky! ... have planted them today, so their long journey has now started! I'm not sure if it is the same species as the one at Dokmai garden yet, may need to wait till it flowers to be sure what it is, unless I can get some flowers or photos of them next Feb (flowering season) from that tree. The shape of the tree certainly looks different and I expect it is a different species, but the location of it is not of particularly high altitude, around 400metres above sea level. I wonder how long that road has been there as if it has been there longer than the tree I suppose the seed may have even been from a fruit eaten by someone travelling from a different area. The first photo (bluer sky) is the tree near Pai and the other one is the Dokmai garden one.

I have come across the record of a highland species which seems rare or uncommon, and at any rate relatively unknown. It is only recorded in Thailand and has been found up to 1200 metres. The only records I have seen is from the Chiang Mai region. The flowers have been described but there is no record of what the fruit is like. That would be an interesting one to find! It's recorded local name is " Ma muang ching reet".

In reverse,

The mango season is over, I can probably find some seedlings around the trunks, however if it is a scientific quest, you should wait untill the next season to insure genuine seeds. Some times people throw things and your seedling might not be the one you want.

The crosspollination meaning: It is definitely not a cultivated type.

It is a wild tree cross-pollinated with an unknown ( so far ) cultivated species.

When I have a chance, I will ask some more old people that might know.

Our elevation is low, may not work for your intended purpose, personally, I think the taste is exquisite. Very refreshing, the complaint, like all wild mangoes, not enough flesh and a lot of seed.

Best