Thai Ladies Married To Western Men - Your Experiences Please

[thaipen]

I am a Thai lady married to an English husband and for many years lived in the UK. We decided that we needed a better life and so four years ago we moved to Thailand with our young son.

I have felt for some time now that Thai women married to a husband from overseas are getting a raw deal, especially when dealing with government departments. I feel I am being looked down at, and treated as a second class citizen.

I am particularly interested in finding out others experiences dealing with Thai Immigration, especially in relation to their husbands here. I feel our status here is precarious and being decided on the whim of immigration despite meeting all the criteria to legally live here.

I feel I have been let down by my own country, we returned here for a better quality of life, not to be questioned about our relationship and reasons for being here. I do not want anything from the Thai state only my right to live peacefully and honestly with my family in my own country.

Each year we extend my husbands visa on the basis of our marriage we go through the same scrutiny. Probing questions into our life and providing reams of paperwork all of which they have seen numerous times before.

Surely our lives here should be more secure than this, of course we need to prove our status initially but to keep doing so year after year is an affront to our dignity.

Immigration offices seem to vary from place to place, some offering a courteous professional service others not, I would love to hear of others experiences both good and bad, are you fed up with this as much as me?

I feel that our voices are not being heard by those in power, and maybe if we worked together we could ask for better accountability and if nothing else a clearer set of rules that would be followed by everyone in every office.

Thank you in advance for your responses.

[sbk]

hi Thaipen and welcome to the forum. While not a Thai woman, I have to say my experience as a foreign woman married to a Thai man is about the same as far as bureaucracy goes. The visa extensions feel like some kind of Inquisition year after year after year. There is no easy way to stay if you are the foreign spouse of a Thai person I am afraid. You will just have to learn to grit your teeth and bear it.

[bina]

as u probably know, here its revversed. anybody having a foriegn spouse in any country probably goes through that stuff. at least here we also have to bring personal photos of us together with friends/pets, my kids, in our house, etc, every year plus letters from adult i.e. 'based' friends (not students or people that arent 'solid citizen types'... . we do this every year for him to get his israeli id card and resident status renewed. and here it doesnt matter if its foreign wife or foreign husband, the key word is 'foreign'.

here however there is no money limit...but other beurocratic issues related to religioun... just its a shame that foreigners cnt become citizens or residents by a less painful route then the thai route.

bina

israel

[mike123ca]

Hi Thaipen,

You are correct, Thai women are 2^nd class citizens in their own country. Their husbands must put up baht 400,000 or earn 40,000 a month. Otherwise they are not able to get visa extented.

The foreign wives of Thai men are not burden by putting up x amount of baht to get a visa extention.

[sbk]

Actually, Mike, you are correct but in that women are second class citizens. The reason Thai men don't have to put up the money is that the man is the legal head of the household in this country and as a citizen he doesn't need to be able to show means to take care of is wife. As a foreign man, you have to show that you can take care of your wife and since you are not a citizen you have to prove you have the means to do so. Additionally, as a foreign woman, my husband requests that his wife be allowed to stay. Its not down to me, its down to him.

[mike123ca]

Additionally, as a foreign woman, my husband requests that his wife be allowed to stay. Its not down to me, its down to him.

Everything you said, I agree with you except for the quoted part. I think almost all countries, the spouse who happens to be the citizen

will have to sign some papers to help the foreign spouse to enter into the country. When my Thai wife and I leave South Korea, I know I need her to

sign some papers for me to enter. Foreigner's really have no rights.

[Artamus]

Most replies to date appear to discuss the need for paper-work and proof. I think what the OP was getting at was the attitude of the Thai authorites (and others?) to a Thai lady being with a foreign husband/partner.

In my (and my wife's) experience it's definitely noticable that my Thai wife is sometimes (not always) treated more poorly by Thai government related beaurocracies than if she would be on her own. So, yes they do seem to look down on her simply because she is with a foreigner. Outside of official beaurocracy it is hardly noticeable.

So I assume the attitude is simply caused by the farang and has no relation to the Thai lady per se.

[thaipen]

Most replies to date appear to discuss the need for paper-work and proof. I think what the OP was getting at was the attitude of the Thai authorites (and others?) to a Thai lady being with a foreign husband/partner.

In my (and my wife's) experience it's definitely noticable that my Thai wife is sometimes (not always) treated more poorly by Thai government related beaurocracies than if she would be on her own. So, yes they do seem to look down on her simply because she is with a foreigner. Outside of official beaurocracy it is hardly noticeable.

So I assume the attitude is simply caused by the farang and has no relation to the Thai lady per se.

Yes this is exactly what I am getting at, the disparity between certain government agencies and the rest of Thai society. Why this should be I do not understand. I fully understand that I needed to establish proof that I lived with my foreign husband, and did this willingly when we arrived here, but why are we still doing it four years later!

[sbk]

I've been doing it since 1992, I stopped moaning about it quite some time ago.

Since you say you are a Thai citizen, feel free to do something about it, you are presumably a voter, contact your MP.

[mike123ca]

Is there a group or an association of Thais who have foreign spouses.

Since you say you are a Thai citizen, feel free to do something about it, you are presumably a voter, contact your MP.

I think I said the same thing to my wife, buy she just rolled her eyes.

Sometimes, I think she prefers the status quo.

[thongsuknork]

Yeah i too felt the same i married Thai and we came to India after i Came i changed her visa status from tourist to X (dependent visa )which was done in a day without she coming i alone went and done the process and Residential process she got one year with only 30 us dollars and now she got 3 years extension with 150 US dollars (she would have got 10 year but passport validity is only 3 years )here she have to come submit the extension its a process of 15 minutes and i went collected the same she dont have to come but in Thailand i have to deposit 4k in bank or so just for discussion here they give respect to a foreigner who came here .

[thongsuknork]

Yeah i too felt the same i married Thai and we came to India after i Came i changed her visa status from tourist to X (dependent visa )which was done in a day without she coming i alone went and done the process and Residential process she got one with only 30 us dollars and now she got 3 years extension with 150 US dollars (she would have got 10 year but passport validity is only 3 years )here she have to come submit the extension its a process of 15 minutes and i went collected the same she dont have to come but in Thailand i have to deposit 4k in bank or so just for discussion here they give respect to a foreigner who came here .

Sorry i did"nt tell you I am a Lawyer

[dominique355]

I am a farang married to a Thai woman (12 years) and we moved to Thailand 4 years ago. Before we used to live in Europe together. So I have a good possibility to compare the attitude not only of the government and its agencies but also of the so-called normal people.

The bureaucracy in this country is horrible, complicated, degrading and unfair. It reflects an attitude where the citizen are underdogs and the government clerks are gods. (I always wondered why even civil servants here were military like uniforms. Now I know: To project power.) This attitude is also blatant when dealing with immigration. But let's not get into that.

What my wife experiences often is that her fellow citizens look down at her. That can be when we check in in a hotel, go in a posh restaurant or in an exclusive shop. In general you can say, the more expensive the place to worse the treatment of my Thai wife.

The situation is completely reversed when we go upcountry. The further away we are from Bangkok, the friendlier they treat my wife (and me).

I am not sure what is the reason, but I suspect that many "hi so" people have a lot of prejudices and believe farangs marry only bargirls.

[thaipen]

I am not sure what is the reason, but I suspect that many "hi so" people have a lot of prejudices and believe farangs marry only bargirls.

Firstly thank you everyone for your replies, it seems there are many who feel the same as me. When I went to live in the UK I was treated far better by the Home Office there than by the government in my own country which is very sad. It is very true about the prejudices, it should not matter what my background is, I am a Thai citizen, a tax payer and contributer to my community and all I ask is to be treated fairly by the authorities and allow us to live here together without these ridiculous barriers.

I to would like to know of any group or association for Thai women married to a foreign spouses. If there isn't such a thing maybe we should form one.

[frankman]

Koh Samui,

is the best ,

immigration office,

to extend your,

one year extension visa,

every year,

what do you think?

[sbk]

It has been for me frankman. Nok is an expert at the foreign wife's visa extension. I do not pay extra and I get excellent service. But then I have been using that office longer than anyone has been working there and not only do I treat them with respect, I get it in return. My paperwork is always in order and correct. Nothing is every missing, dodgy and I never raise my voice.

Usually the people I see having problems in that office do not have everything in order and yet still want the visa.

[Mosha]

Is there a group or an association of Thais who have foreign spouses.

Since you say you are a Thai citizen, feel free to do something about it, you are presumably a voter, contact your MP.

I think I said the same thing to my wife, buy she just rolled her eyes.

Sometimes, I think she prefers the status quo.

It's called anything for a quiet life Mike.

[little_muppet]

Hi Thaipen, im Thai and married to english too , We go to the UK every year to visit his family and renew his non O visa at Hull. its real easy coz u just get the form from thai consulate hull's website , print it out, fill in ,attach the married certificate and post ur passport to them. than they will return it in a couple days.

because we know it pain in the A!#@ here that why we use this issue to excuse go to the UK (My hubby hate it there hahahaha ).

good luck ka

[F1fanatic]

I am a farang married to a Thai woman (12 years) and we moved to Thailand 4 years ago. Before we used to live in Europe together. So I have a good possibility to compare the attitude not only of the government and its agencies but also of the so-called normal people.

The bureaucracy in this country is horrible, complicated, degrading and unfair. It reflects an attitude where the citizen are underdogs and the government clerks are gods. (I always wondered why even civil servants here were military like uniforms. Now I know: To project power.) This attitude is also blatant when dealing with immigration. But let's not get into that.

What my wife experiences often is that her fellow citizens look down at her. That can be when we check in in a hotel, go in a posh restaurant or in an exclusive shop. In general you can say, the more expensive the place to worse the treatment of my Thai wife.

The situation is completely reversed when we go upcountry. The further away we are from Bangkok, the friendlier they treat my wife (and me).

I am not sure what is the reason, but I suspect that many "hi so" people have a lot of prejudices and believe farangs marry only bargirls.

Having been married to a Thai woman for so many years, I'm suprised that you've so completely missed the understanding behind what's going on.

Immigration procedures in most countries are horrible - they don't like foreigners...

As for your comments about the 'posher the place' the more they look down on your wife, whereas once you go up country the situation is reversed - you've missed Thai culture entirely!

'Hi-so' Thais can (and do) distinguish the class of Thai women immediately. They look down on low class people, Thai or farang.

Hotel, restaurant staff etc. automatically assume that any Thai woman with a farang is with him for one reason only.... But they are also pretty good (like hotel staff around the world) at recognising the 'class' of people they serve.

Up country it's entirely different - they are poor and respect any woman that has found a wealthy husband - money (to them) is everything.

[mssabai]

Sorry, I am not married to a Thai so am not commening on that. But just F1's last post echoed a conversation we have had in the office today. In my four years here, I have NEVER felt that I am disliked or unwanted because I am a foreigner. Yes I have had some unpleasant experiences in immigration and banks, but this was almost always down to the fact the person I was dealing with was not trained well enough and the hierachy here does not let anyone use their own logic, only refer to that (or lack thereof) of their seniors. Saying that though I have had equally unpleasant situations with similar institutions in the UK.

Maybe it is just because I am a woman though, I just always get surprised when I here these kinds of comments because it in no way mirrors my own experiences (and ps, I am not the most jai yen person in the world by any means).

[BB1955]

Im from the USA married to a Thai . we have been married 6 years of which we lived in the USA . I have to say I feel like I went through more hoops getting her to the USA than she did getting me a visa here. The income requirements here ? She was upset about it and I can understand that . I was very upset at the requirments the US made me do for her to come and stay with me and the fees they charged . SO I guess Im sayind what they have made us do here in Thailand was nothing compared to what was required for her in the USA . My only gripe is when we stay in Bangkok and we check into a hotel when we come and go the first few times security usually stops us and I have to show she is my wife ... Other than that its just a day in the life of Thailand ......

[sbk]

Actually, while the hoops are initially more difficult, yes, in the end the process for a Thai living in the US is much more fair.

[Lesley99]

People do make presumptions, I went to look round the grand palace with my dad, husband and twin girls earlier this year, one of the guides asked me if we needed a guide, my husband had gone to get trousers to cover his legs so I told her I would wait and ask him when he came back, she then snapped at me that he could not be my guide as he was not an official one, took me a minute to realise that she assumed my dad was my husband and that my husband was our guide as he's Thai.

[sbk]

We got that at the night bazaar in Chiang Mai- shopping with my mom and when he asked "why so expensive" was asked, "why do you care? you are a tourist guide". He was well offended with that one and made sure they knew