Western Transgender In Bkk; Ok To Dress Etc?

[beckibabeuk]

I am in BKK for the next few days and early stage pre-op (on hormones with results etc) and wish to dress. Just wondering if this is advisable for a westerner. Any suggestions on places to visit? Safety tips, oh and boys? hehe. Thanks in advance

[tombkk]

I have seen many western TGs in Bangkok. Early stage pre-op, any other later stages, post-op, I think this is not a problem. In fact, I think Thailand is the best place to try yourself out and dress up to your heart's desire. Enjoy!

I am pretty sure there is a community of western TGs in Bangkok, and I would think you are member of an online TG forum in your country that can help you with some contacts. If not, rest assured that walking in the streets and shopping centers (especially in the touristy down-town) is safe. As for meeting people, I know only the gay areas, and you would not have any problems there. I do believe there are also meeting points (joints, bars) especially catering to western TGs.

[jdean]

In Patong a man, any man, dressed as a woman barely gets a second glance. I agree, you should dress to your heart's content.

[kek]

Not wanting to rain on anyone’s parade, but … Last night in the Telephone bar there was what one waiter described as a Farang Katoey. Most people who are that unattractive would have hidden themselves away like the Elephant Man but this creature was an exhibitionist; dancing in the aisles to the voice of the resident singer.

This “Freak-Show” looked more like a 6 foot drag queen (in the Maisie Trollette style but with far less talent) and wore a short dress revealing muscled legs that a footballer would be proud of and a pair of broad shoulders reminiscent of an Olympic swimmer. The ensemble was topped off with shoulder length curly dark hair and hands like bunches of bananas.

He must have been ugly as a man but as a woman he was utterly hideous. If this monster from the deep is pre-op then here’s some advice … you need a landscape gardener not a plastic surgeon. And … if you want to be a woman try behaving like one.

[neverdie]

Not wanting to rain on anyone's parade, but … Last night in the Telephone bar there was what one waiter described as a Farang Katoey. Most people who are that unattractive would have hidden themselves away like the Elephant Man but this creature was an exhibitionist; dancing in the aisles to the voice of the resident singer.

This "Freak-Show" looked more like a 6 foot drag queen (in the Maisie Trollette style but with far less talent) and wore a short dress revealing muscled legs that a footballer would be proud of and a pair of broad shoulders reminiscent of an Olympic swimmer. The ensemble was topped off with shoulder length curly dark hair and hands like bunches of bananas.

He must have been ugly as a man but as a woman he was utterly hideous. If this monster from the deep is pre-op then here's some advice … you need a landscape gardener not a plastic surgeon. And … if you want to be a woman try behaving like one.

Theres obviously no mirrors in your place.

You seem to fail to recognise that being transgenerded is recognised medically and isnt just about ugly men trying to be women. Have you ever stopped to think that your unkind words are unneccessary & serve no purpose. You need to grow up a little bit, afterall this person was doing no real harm and by the sounds of it, have a wonderful time in the process.

I've never understood the need for others to 'standbye' and judge others, just because they are different.

[dsprtliving]

Not wanting to rain on anyone's parade, but … Last night in the Telephone bar there was what one waiter described as a Farang Katoey. Most people who are that unattractive would have hidden themselves away like the Elephant Man but this creature was an exhibitionist; dancing in the aisles to the voice of the resident singer.

This "Freak-Show" looked more like a 6 foot drag queen (in the Maisie Trollette style but with far less talent) and wore a short dress revealing muscled legs that a footballer would be proud of and a pair of broad shoulders reminiscent of an Olympic swimmer. The ensemble was topped off with shoulder length curly dark hair and hands like bunches of bananas.

He must have been ugly as a man but as a woman he was utterly hideous. If this monster from the deep is pre-op then here's some advice … you need a landscape gardener not a plastic surgeon. And … if you want to be a woman try behaving like one.

It is a shame really that we are our own worst enemies and that even in a happy environment like Telephone that the condemning eyes of the lavender inquisition are sitting silently by passing such unwarranted judgements. The "T" in our GLBTA community stands for all transgendered people, and not just the ones blessed by birth with a cute, petit frames. I remember ages when i finally worked up enough courage to finally attempt a "coming out" and thinking naively that I'd finally become a part of a community that would accept me with open arms. However, the cold truth is that some members of our community are as mean and hateful as those that stand across the divide and persecute us.

[endure]

The boyfriend and I once went to a party where there were some gay guys who were wearing drag. They weren't TVs or TSs - they were just it for fun. They weren't very pretty. When I sniggered at them the bf turned round and asked me why I was laughing. He pointed that they were having a good time, weren't hurting anyone and it was perhaps me who was the problem not them. I found myself forced to agree with him.

[kek]

You seem to fail to recognise that being transgenerded is recognised medically ...

And this one had forgotten to take its medication.

[kek]

It is a shame really that we are our own worst enemies and that even in a happy environment like Telephone that the condemning eyes of the lavender inquisition are sitting silently by passing such unwarranted judgements. The "T" in our GLBTA community stands for all transgendered people, and not just the ones blessed by birth with a cute, petit frames. I remember ages when i finally worked up enough courage to finally attempt a "coming out" and thinking naively that I'd finally become a part of a community that would accept me with open arms. However, the cold truth is that some members of our community are as mean and hateful as those that stand across the divide and persecute us.

I agree that it's a shame.

After decades of striving for acceptance, Gay men are now broadly accepted in most societies and can freely go about visiting their friends in pubs; wearing normal street clothes, without having to flounce and prance around to show that they are gay and out and proud and don't care for the restrictions of the society they live in. They can now behave normally like any other member of society.

Then, one night, while we are enjoying a drink with our friends and minding our own business, along comes someone who doesn't care that we don't want to see their performance; doesn't realize that they are in a pub and not an audition room and doesn't care that they are regressing the cause of gay freedom by behaving and looking like an utter fool.

Shame indeed.

[kek]

The boyfriend and I once went to a party where there were some gay guys who were wearing drag. They weren't TVs or TSs - they were just it for fun. They weren't very pretty. When I sniggered at them the bf turned round and asked me why I was laughing. He pointed that they were having a good time, weren't hurting anyone and it was perhaps me who was the problem not them. I found myself forced to agree with him.

A good point ... and maybe it should be left up to the bar owner to decide if he wants this type of behavior in his establishment.

If he does than I will take my 4 times a week business to his bar elsewhere ... and I know other farangs and Thais who will also go.

[geriatrickid]

Wow, some people have discovered emotions and have gotten all sensitive and touchie feelie. Bunch of hypocrites. You telling me, none of you have ever sat in a place somewhere and commented to your friends about people or expressed annoyance when someone is attracting attention and is a public fool? What if it was a morbidly obese farang with flabby boobs and back zits that decided he had to dance around shirtless? You telling me that you wouldn't make a comment, that instead, you'd break out in a chorus of Que Sera Sera and do a Doris Day swish? I don't think so.

Although, I do have to acknowledge the poetic beauty of the following description, "the condemning eyes of the lavender inquisition are sitting silently by passing such unwarranted judgements" since it is well written and true, but c'mon now, gays are just as petty and tempermental as non-gays. Hetero guys will sit around and discuss girls worth ramming or girls' breast sizes. My friends often ridicule people that are annoying. And don't tell me, you don't know what I'm talking about either. Examples are the Quzimodo like trolls that think they are sexy and walk around with some major 'tude issues or the loudmouths wearing those spectacularly pathetic tshirts that say something like Federal Body Inspector, or You will swallow my charms etc. The ladies will sit around discussing someone's outfit or guys' penis sizes (yes, they do and girls be cruel, particularly when they play that game). My gay friends are no different.

If people want to dress to attract attention, then attention they will get and they have to deal with the consequences. What is it that says that if someone that is horridly ugly to start with puts on an outfit that accentuates the ugliness quotient, that people are obliged to applaud and say good for you, go and fulfill your emotional needs. I'm sorry, but the fat slobs that insist on wearing those form fitting polyester gym pants that highlight the blubber, or the women that wear short shorts where the asscrack eats the pants or the kids that wear their pants under their buttcheeks exposing their name brand boxers get what they deserve: Ridicule.

When I see a woman with a kilo of cosmetics on her face with the loudest of eye shadow and the brightest and shiniest of lip gloss, I think to myself, mmkay, it's Trixie the Tramp. Why do ugly people go crazy with the cosmetics? Would it kill them to lay off on the loudness and focus on the subtle gentle hues? Accentuate the positive. Why do they have to try and look like Tammy Faye Baker?

One can dress and behave elegantly and with some self respect. It's the difference between doing a Lady Gaga at a public event and being cool, yet still true to yourself like Ellen DeGeneres.

Edited July 1, 2010 by geriatrickid

[endure]

The boyfriend and I once went to a party where there were some gay guys who were wearing drag. They weren't TVs or TSs - they were just it for fun. They weren't very pretty. When I sniggered at them the bf turned round and asked me why I was laughing. He pointed that they were having a good time, weren't hurting anyone and it was perhaps me who was the problem not them. I found myself forced to agree with him.

A good point ... and maybe it should be left up to the bar owner to decide if he wants this type of behavior in his establishment.

If he does than I will take my 4 times a week business to his bar elsewhere ... and I know other farangs and Thais who will also go.

Did the bar owner complain about 'this type of behaviour in his establishment'? Did he kick the offending person out? If he didn't then you have the answer to your question.

Edited July 1, 2010 by endure

[endure]

Wow, some people have discovered emotions and have gotten all sensitive and touchie feelie. Bunch of hypocrites. You telling me, none of you have ever sat in a place somewhere and commented to your friends about people or expressed annoyance when someone is attracting attention and is a public fool? What if it was a morbidly obese farang with flabby boobs and back zits that decided he had to dance around shirtless? You telling me that you wouldn't make a comment, that instead, you'd break out in a chorus of Que Sera Sera and do a Doris Day swish? I don't think so.

No matter how many gay friends you have, no matter how many gay bars you hang around in, no matter how down with the gays you are you'll never be gay or understand how we think. Your que sera sera Doris Day nonsense simply indicates that you've bought into the straight stereotype of what we're like.

[geriatrickid]

Wow, some people have discovered emotions and have gotten all sensitive and touchie feelie. Bunch of hypocrites. You telling me, none of you have ever sat in a place somewhere and commented to your friends about people or expressed annoyance when someone is attracting attention and is a public fool? What if it was a morbidly obese farang with flabby boobs and back zits that decided he had to dance around shirtless? You telling me that you wouldn't make a comment, that instead, you'd break out in a chorus of Que Sera Sera and do a Doris Day swish? I don't think so.

No matter how many gay friends you have, no matter how many gay bars you hang around in, no matter how down with the gays you are you'll never be gay or understand how we think. Your que sera sera Doris Day nonsense simply indicates that you've bought into the straight stereotype of what we're like.

Wow, again with a chip on the shoulder. The initial kerfuffle was over someone getting annoyed by people that can't behave in public. That's what it's all about. An assault on the senses. Getting knocked out by stinky perfumes/colognes crosses all sex, religious, social labels. Having your eyes burnt because of someone's ghastly wardrobe isn't gender related. I don't want to look at some ugger with his or her midriff exposed with a big gooey belly roll hanging down. The people that are the worst dressers and that over do it with the makeup and hair products are also the same people that have a habit of annoying others because they are often loud and obnoxious. Is it so hard for people to be respectful of others in public? Do I have to eat my lunch next to some slob with a stained singlet, too tight shorts and decrepit flip flops with his dirty black toenails, grey elbows, b.o. and bad table manners? The guy could be as ugly as sin or could be a giant TV, but as long as he dressed appropriately and didn't assault the senses, I wouldn't care

My point, which obviously you missed, is that dressing like a neon light with a flashing arrow that says, look at me, look at me has nothing to do with being gay or transgendered. It's like the white kid that dresses like a gangstah and thinks he's going to hang with 50cent and Snoop. The kid looks ridiculous, but in the kid's head, he's fly. Everyone's laughing at the kid, but he doesn't get it and goes off to sulk saying the world is picking on him, persecuting him because he's ghetto. People laugh at him because he looks like a fool, not because he's out of Compton.

You really are totally out of the loop on the Que Sera Sera reference aren't you? The least you could have done is to look into the reference before you pushed the persecution button. When Homer Simpson took over Ned Flanders bomb shelter, he left Ned outside to sing Que Sera Sera. Then, Lisa heard him singing and everyone in the bomb shelter starts singing and comes out swaying. That's where the reference comes from. Let me guess, you hate the Simpsons too? And BTW, Doris Day sang Que Sera Sera in a movie with Jimmy Stewart and it sure as <deleted> had zero relationship to anyone's sexual practices. It was an innocuous song that has taken on a meaning similar to that of making lemonade out of lemons. It also happens to be a multi covered song, with a version done almost every year. Even Johnny Thunders did it, and in case you've been asleep in front of the telly, it got prominent airplay last year because of the Thai Life commercial. Didn't you see the viral parodies where people are annoying and people break into a chorus of Que Sera Sera? You are way to uptight. Here's a tip, it's not 1955 anymore.

[samtam]

Why is a transgender question posted in this forum. TGs are not gay and gays are not TGs.

[dsprtliving]

My point, which obviously you missed, is that dressing like a neon light with a flashing arrow that says, look at me, look at me has nothing to do with being gay or transgendered. It's like the white kid that dresses like a gangstah and thinks he's going to hang with 50cent and Snoop. The kid looks ridiculous, but in the kid's head, he's fly. Everyone's laughing at the kid, but he doesn't get it and goes off to sulk saying the world is picking on him, persecuting him because he's ghetto. People laugh at him because he looks like a fool, not because he's out of Compton.

I must confess that i do appreciate and get the point, and if your out trying to have a lovely evening with friends then the last thing anyone wants is some drunken fool making a spectacle of themselves in the same vicinity. This seems to be a case of being annoyed with the behavior of person, as opposed to objecting to the choice of looking like the redneck version of Dame Edna. There is a very flamboyant loud mouthed little dwarf of a man that comes into Telephone often and I find i cringe at the mere sight of him sometimes. It has nothing to do with his choice of outfits, as they are quite banal and boring. It has more to do with his attitude and pompas air each time i see him.

This comment from Geriatrickid reminds me of a time i was sitting out the front of Telephone with a close friend and this vision of loud clashing neon colors came floating down the Soi. He wore a bright neon yellow shirt, neon green pants and an orange neon jacket to complete the ensemble. There was an empty table directly behind us and it was one of those moments where you immediately begin an inner dialogue of "please don't sit behind me, please don't sit behind me, please don't sit behind me!" However, he of course did and within a matter of minutes was trying to strike up a friendly conversation by asking us if we new any drinks he could order that were neon and that would glow in the dark as much as he did. Despite my initial jump to judgement, he ended up being a lovely fellow and we had a nice evening of laughs with him. So, i still say one should not be so quick to judge but I can certainly understand the reflex to do so when it happens.

Edited July 2, 2010 by dsprtliving

[endure]

You are way to uptight. Here's a tip, it's not 1955 anymore.

We have a poster on here who's having the vapours because an ugly man in a frock had the temerity to enjoy himself and you accuse me of being uptight

[twschw]

Says it all.

[ginqueen30]

My somewhat humble opinion is that it could undo all the pain, efforts and heart break that our predecessors went through over maybe 2 generations to achieve where we are today. Is it not unreasonable that we gay or TG or TV or lesbian remember this and not push it in the face of others, our own or others.

[twschw]

And where exactly are we today? I have a news flash for you, gays are merely tolerated. Sure we don't get openly called faggot or queer as much anymore nor are we beaten up for being gay as often, it is not politically correct, but the feelings are still there. If any gay person went to a family gathering and announced "Hey, I'm not gay anymore, the family would be overjoyed.

You guys can do all the appeasing of the straight community that you like, but we didn't get as far as we have (we still have a long way to go) by not pushing it in the others faces. Btw, I am from the generation which you mention in your post.

Back to the topic, Honey come on over, doll yourself up and have the time of your life. Remember life is not a rehersal.

[tombkk]

Says it all.

I agree with this. I am also most surprised that there are so many people on this forum who are outspoken against the TG that night. I guess I was wrong about the gay bars, and that I said that Thailand is a good place to try yourself out and have a good time. Especially if you are not used to dressing up in your home country, and you come across as straight in your normal life, and maybe you are not the prettiest.

Or maybe it's just this forum that is intolerant?

[tombkk]

Not wanting to rain on anyone's parade, but … Last night in the Telephone bar there was what one waiter described as a Farang Katoey. Most people who are that unattractive would have hidden themselves away like the Elephant Man but this creature was an exhibitionist; dancing in the aisles to the voice of the resident singer.

This "Freak-Show" looked more like a 6 foot drag queen (in the Maisie Trollette style but with far less talent) and wore a short dress revealing muscled legs that a footballer would be proud of and a pair of broad shoulders reminiscent of an Olympic swimmer. The ensemble was topped off with shoulder length curly dark hair and hands like bunches of bananas.

He must have been ugly as a man but as a woman he was utterly hideous. If this monster from the deep is pre-op then here's some advice … you need a landscape gardener not a plastic surgeon. And … if you want to be a woman try behaving like one.

I am very disappointed to see such a post in this forum. I didn't know that this place is only for the beautiful elite.

[endure]

Not wanting to rain on anyone's parade, but … Last night in the Telephone bar there was what one waiter described as a Farang Katoey. Most people who are that unattractive would have hidden themselves away like the Elephant Man but this creature was an exhibitionist; dancing in the aisles to the voice of the resident singer.

This "Freak-Show" looked more like a 6 foot drag queen (in the Maisie Trollette style but with far less talent) and wore a short dress revealing muscled legs that a footballer would be proud of and a pair of broad shoulders reminiscent of an Olympic swimmer. The ensemble was topped off with shoulder length curly dark hair and hands like bunches of bananas.

He must have been ugly as a man but as a woman he was utterly hideous. If this monster from the deep is pre-op then here's some advice … you need a landscape gardener not a plastic surgeon. And … if you want to be a woman try behaving like one.

I am very disappointed to see such a post in this forum. I didn't know that this place is only for the beautiful elite.

Just like being at home, isn't it?

[Ijustwannateach]

I don't mind having transgendered topics in this forum when they are serious and not inquiries from straights about where the best ladyboy prostitutes can be found (answer in advance: the straight prostitution scene); it's a more appropriate place than General or the Ladies forum, and they should feel welcome to express and explore their differences here without feeling oppressed or ridiculed.

In my experience there aren't any real barriers to wearing just about whatever you want in Bangkok except if you are concerned about what other people think of you. There is little chance that it will affect your ability as a tourist to reside, shop, etc. You still have to cover the required areas of your body in temples. Otherwise, no one much cares (on the Thai side, anyway).

As far as the Telephone incident is concerned, I don't think it's all that pertinent to this topic, except that if you want to hang out in the tourist gay scene that's the type of place you'll be in, and you can judge for yourself how people from your own country will react to you.

[scorecard]

My point, which obviously you missed, is that dressing like a neon light with a flashing arrow that says, look at me, look at me has nothing to do with being gay or transgendered. It's like the white kid that dresses like a gangstah and thinks he's going to hang with 50cent and Snoop. The kid looks ridiculous, but in the kid's head, he's fly. Everyone's laughing at the kid, but he doesn't get it and goes off to sulk saying the world is picking on him, persecuting him because he's ghetto. People laugh at him because he looks like a fool, not because he's out of Compton.

I must confess that i do appreciate and get the point, and if your out trying to have a lovely evening with friends then the last thing anyone wants is some drunken fool making a spectacle of themselves in the same vicinity. This seems to be a case of being annoyed with the behavior of person, as opposed to objecting to the choice of looking like the redneck version of Dame Edna. There is a very flamboyant loud mouthed little dwarf of a man that comes into Telephone often and I find i cringe at the mere sight of him sometimes. It has nothing to do with his choice of outfits, as they are quite banal and boring. It has more to do with his attitude and pompas air each time i see him.

This comment from Geriatrickid reminds me of a time i was sitting out the front of Telephone with a close friend and this vision of loud clashing neon colors came floating down the Soi. He wore a bright neon yellow shirt, neon green pants and an orange neon jacket to complete the ensemble. There was an empty table directly behind us and it was one of those moments where you immediately begin an inner dialogue of "please don't sit behind me, please don't sit behind me, please don't sit behind me!" However, he of course did and within a matter of minutes was trying to strike up a friendly conversation by asking us if we new any drinks he could order that were neon and that would glow in the dark as much as he did. Despite my initial jump to judgement, he ended up being a lovely fellow and we had a nice evening of laughs with him. So, i still say one should not be so quick to judge but I can certainly understand the reflex to do so when it happens.

This is such interesting reading because it's about life, real life.

It reminds me of a man I sat next to on a flight from Australia to Bangkok decades ago. He was wearing outrageous clothes - multi patterned and multi coloured and he attracted numerous negative comments.

I just typed 'outrageous' but I instantly remembered that my parents taught me that 'normal' is relative to very little.

He sat next to me and we struck up a conversation and talked all the way to Bangkok. Ultimtely his philosophy of life was very simple and I have never forgotten his words: "I don't want to stand out in the crowd but I also don't want to be a sheep".

That comment has come back to me many many times over more than 30 years.

Today I teach some aspects of human behavior. It's a wonderful line to pass on to my students.

Edited July 8, 2010 by scorecard

[tombkk]

I don't know why the Reply function on this board doesn't show the posting I reply to any more, but gives me a blank reply form. Well, here I go:

I was a neon guy in some phase of my youth. I admit, it was decades ago and fashion supported it, and it was easier at the time. People found me odd. Today, I wear shirts and neckties. I just want to say it was an important thing for me in the phase of finding and defining myself, and some people have this phase earlier, others later in life. I know people (farangs) who didn't know they were gay until they were in their 40s, and promptly overdid it. It's healthy, they'd missed years and decades, so let them be extreme for a while. Who is to judge them.

As for the multi-patterned, multi-coloured bloke on the airplane from Australia who had the philosophy: "I don't want to stand out in the crowd but I also don't want to be a sheep": I like that. I thinkabout it for some time and see whether I will adopt it.

[yabbit]

I agree with this. I am also most surprised that there are so many people on this forum who are outspoken against the TG that night. I guess I was wrong about the gay bars, and that I said that Thailand is a good place to try yourself out and have a good time. Especially if you are not used to dressing up in your home country, and you come across as straight in your normal life, and maybe you are not the prettiest.

Or maybe it's just this forum that is intolerant?

i am transgender and i used to live in Thailand and Thailand is indeed a pretty tolerant place. I've been to many 100% thai area, non touristic places and i did not have any problem or any one treated me badly.

There was only one case when a farang did attack me in a club (was a gay night), and Thai people working there came to my rescue immedialty and even kicked him out of the venue. (in western world in many cases if you are transgender people will not help you when attacked- and just think you deserve it because you are transgender)

[britmaveric]

I'm sure the OP will fit in well. Thailand is very tolerant and well there are lots of interesting people to look at running around the bars, discos ect. Enjoy!

[yabbit]

Not wanting to rain on anyone's parade, but …

It looks more like You Want to rain on others parade here.

Last night in the Telephone bar there was what one waiter described as a Farang Katoey. Most people who are that unattractive would have hidden themselves away like the Elephant Man but this creature was an exhibitionist; dancing in the aisles to the voice of the resident singer.

Unless i am wrong, but the topic of the thread was not "did you ever meet an unattractive tranny?".

There are transgender people that look ugly while other look beautiful

The same way there are gay people that look ugly while other look beautiful (many gay farang in the Telephone bar are very far from looking beautiful by the way).

The same there are straight people that look ugly while other look beautiful.

But if there is a post asking about gay friendly hotels, i wouldn't start talking about that Old fat Gay guy, that we could see his hairy stomach, and how it was also possible to see that he was wearing a thong and how sick it was..............etc. It is just not the subject we are talking about.

That is the main difference between Farang and Thai people, thai people live and let other people live and are tolerant. While Farang culture is not very tolerant if you are different. (Africans are black so it is ok to enslave them, native american are not civilized because they dress differently etc...)

I am not 6ft tall, and even while dressed like a boy many people that don't know me will use girls pronoun when talking with me.

My hands don't look like bunches of bananas. Even when dressed like a boy (yes i need to earn a living and i am still not out) i had many girls comment on how my hand are small and totally look like girls hand etc....

Does this mean in Europe/USA i was never discriminated against and treated correctly? while not dancing or acting like an exhibitionist i had random people tell me i deserved to die, that people like me should be killed etc....

Western Culture is transphobic and can not tolerate difference the same way Thai do.

A few weeks ago in the USA a Toddler was Beaten To Death For “Acting Like a Girl”

http://ourcompass.wordpress.com/2010/08/11/toddler-beaten-to-death-for-acting-like-a-girl-how-gender-stereotypes-killed-a-young-child/