Farang Population Explosion Continues

[BigWheelMan]

The OP is, sadly, just the flip side of the coin of the very people he is complaining about. There are some good points on here about the diversity of people wherever you go.

I'm not sure the new people arriving necessarily fit in the categories offered.

Typo

There seems to be three categories of Farang ex-pats living in Thailand.

1. The business owners or workers.

2. The retired, those living on pension incomes from their home countries.

3. The down and outs, scratching about will do anything to stay here.

Many times while out shopping in the supermarkets, I have seen Farangs, young, middle-aged and old, dressed in attire that even a scarecrow wouldn’t be seen dead in, unshaven, dirty, smelly and appear as if they have lived in a Salvation hostile for the last ten years, jumped on a plane and flown over.

Although I agree that diversity can be beneficial to some degree, I’m sure the above mentioned number three category are not the sort of foreigners any Governments want to attract to their countries. An influx of these people does not create good images for ex-pats of the same race, nationalities and what’s worrying is that I am seeing more and more of those types in Thailand.

[filingaccount]

WHat is the problem with his post? And just how can he show statistics on that. Asking for them is rather specious, I think.

This is obviously his observations and he has merely come up with examples which reflect that, and I think anyone who has posted here for long has seen this type of reasoning. Now if you feel he is overstating the issue, or if you don't agree that it is prevalent, fine, but asking for statistics? Might as well as for "statistics" when someone posts that the had a bad meal at a certain restaurant.

I didn't say there was a problem, per se, with the post. I simply wanted some facts to back up quite strong statements. I hardly think it is specious to ask for facts when presented with random opinion posted as fact. Moreover, one tends to read what one wants to read (aka. selective information intake). I can go into more details about that, but it's not relevant in this context.

Anyhow...

To form an opinion one must base at least some of it on fact, don't you think? How would one come to a personal conclusion without supporting evidence, if not by verifiable fact collected over time and stored (at least in ones own memory). If one decides to share <knowledge> then one must be prepared for <enquiry> and be able to present some form of supporting <data> if/when asked. If no such <data> can be produced, one must be prepared for <disapproval>.

To use your bad meal analogy... If one has a bad meal at <restaurant> one can not state that <restaurant> is bad, only that the meal was bad. If one were to state that meal was bad, therefore <restaurant sucks> one would be stating opinion as fact, and one would be presenting unverifiable claims, at best.

One sample does not make for verifiable repeat occurrences. However, if one has a bad meal, speak with staff/other patrons/the chef/owner/whomever relevant, and is able to collect fairly reliable facts (eg. 6 of 312 people experienced a bad meal) then one can with more confidence state <conclusion>.

I hope this clears up why I commented the way I did. You might agree or disagree, but that is up to you of course. If there is anything that is unclear please let me know and I'll try to clear it up best I can.

[rishi]

Just read the Stickman's latest weekly column which discusses the topic of this thread. While I'm sure there are expats coming and going every year, I'd tend to agree with the Stickman that more are coming than leaving. Much more...

Stickman's personal gut feelings aren't any more reliable than your gut feelings... Got any reliable research report data to back up that claim which is in contradiction to my guts' tales as well as to the tales of the dried up coffee remains in my coffeecup? To me it seems that more farangs are leaving than coming.

[SAW]

What a load of gobbledygook.

[Jingthing]

What a load of gobbledygook.

I tend to agree.

[MrHammer]

Those that limit their time on Thai visa is the happiest for sure.

It also helps to have a job/studies, money, friends and good health. Same as everywhere else

[Ulysses G.]

WHat is the problem with his post?  And just how can he show statistics on that.  Asking for them is rather specious, I think.

I didn't say there was a problem, per se, with the post. I simply wanted some facts to back up quite strong statements...

 

I hope this clears up why I commented the way I did. You might agree or disagree, but that is up to you of course. If there is anything that is unclear please let me know and I'll try to clear it up best I can.

It would have been a lot easier to simply agree with bonobo. He is quite clearly correct that the other poster is also entitled to his opinion.  

[sokal]

I am a mix of BOTH categories, and I bet my bottom baht, that MOST expats are also a mix. So basically I think the categories are total rubbish.

I take allot of crap from people on this board for defending the locals driving style.

[Berkshire]

Just read the Stickman's latest weekly column which discusses the topic of this thread. While I'm sure there are expats coming and going every year, I'd tend to agree with the Stickman that more are coming than leaving. Much more...

Stickman's personal gut feelings aren't any more reliable than your gut feelings... Got any reliable research report data to back up that claim which is in contradiction to my guts' tales as well as to the tales of the dried up coffee remains in my coffeecup? To me it seems that more farangs are leaving than coming.

Obviously both Mr. Stickman and I are offering our opinions. I will note, however, that the Stickman is one of the more informed farangs living in Thailand. On top of that, he's a "public figure" of sorts. In other words, the guy is sticking it out there (in a manner of speaking) for all to see and isn't just going to make up stuff unless he can back it up. Goes to his reputation, credibility, and so on, which of course impacts his livelihood. That's unlike the anonymous folks on this forum, myself included.

This is not to say his words are gospel. I read stuff on his site all the time and don't always agree with everything he says. I certainly don't know the man. His Reader Submissions are pretty interesting (the Green Star section, anyways).

[Huey]

Cat 1: Winners

Cat 2: Losers

80% of ex-pats in Thailand are losers and have always been losers. They complain about Thais without realizing their obvious personal shortcomings. It's easier for them to try to bring down those of us that are enjoying Thailand and mixing with locals. I guess I'm the fool for enjoying myself and should waste more energy complaining.

Hear hear. (Need not look any further than this forum to substantiate the 20-80 statistic.)

Sometimes the harsh truth is staring us right in the face.

Hard to believe that I actually agree with my arch nemeses , but yeah that cat 1 & 2, 20/80% really about sums it up.

[bonobo]

WHat is the problem with his post?  And just how can he show statistics on that.  Asking for them is rather specious, I think.

This is obviously his observations and he has merely come up with examples which reflect that, and I think anyone who has posted here for long has seen this type of reasoning.  Now if you feel he is overstating the issue, or if you don't agree that it is prevalent, fine, but asking for statistics?  Might as well as for "statistics" when someone posts that the had a bad meal at a certain restaurant.

I didn't say there was a problem, per se, with the post. I simply wanted some facts to back up quite strong statements. I hardly think it is specious to ask for facts when presented with random opinion posted as fact. Moreover, one tends to read what one wants to read (aka. selective information intake). I can go into more details about that, but it's not relevant in this context.

Anyhow...

To form an opinion one must base at least some of it on fact, don't you think? How would one come to a personal conclusion without supporting evidence, if not by verifiable fact collected over time and stored (at least in ones own memory). If one decides to share <knowledge> then one must be prepared for <enquiry> and be able to present some form of supporting <data> if/when asked. If no such <data> can be produced, one must be prepared for <disapproval>.

To use your bad meal analogy... If one has a bad meal at <restaurant> one can not state that <restaurant> is bad, only that the meal was bad. If one were to state that meal was bad, therefore <restaurant sucks> one would be stating opinion as fact, and one would be presenting unverifiable claims, at best.

One sample does not make for verifiable repeat occurrences. However, if one has a bad meal, speak with staff/other patrons/the chef/owner/whomever relevant, and is able to collect fairly reliable facts (eg. 6 of 312 people experienced a bad meal) then one can with more confidence state <conclusion>.

I hope this clears up why I commented the way I did. You might agree or disagree, but that is up to you of course. If there is anything that is unclear please let me know and I'll try to clear it up best I can.

The problem with your assumption is that the OP is merely giving a subjective analysis on his observations.  And that belies statistical backing.  This is not the same as asserting that the HIV rate is going up or down, or that Thais are banking more or less of their income.  All of these are verifiable, and if someone makes a blanket statement on one of those, asking for the stats to back that up would be appropriate.

But for a subjective analysis, then asking for stats really is specious.  How can there be stats for something so subjective?  I can assert that there are two kinds of fish in the world, good-tasting ones and bad tasting ones.  Someone else can disagree and state there are three kinds:  small ones,s middle-sized ones, and big ones. These are two classifications based on both of our subjective opinions.  And neither can be backed by statistics.

Others have taken issue with the OP's classifications saying they are not complete or accurate.  And they may seem simplistic, but within the context of his arguments, they may or may not be adequate.  But to ask for statistics to back up his analysis is really pretty silly.

[Berkshire]

The problem with your assumption is that the OP is merely giving a subjective analysis on his observations. And that belies statistical backing. This is not the same as asserting that the HIV rate is going up or down, or that Thais are banking more or less of their income. All of these are verifiable, and if someone makes a blanket statement on one of those, asking for the stats to back that up would be appropriate.

But for a subjective analysis, then asking for stats really is specious. How can there be stats for something so subjective? I can assert that there are two kinds of fish in the world, good-tasting ones and bad tasting ones. Someone else can disagree and state there are three kinds: small ones,s middle-sized ones, and big ones. These are two classifications based on both of our subjective opinions. And neither can be backed by statistics.

Others have taken issue with the OP's classifications saying they are not complete or accurate. And they may seem simplistic, but within the context of his arguments, they may or may not be adequate. But to ask for statistics to back up his analysis is really pretty silly.

Thank you Bonobo. I especially dig your eloquent use of the word "specious."

[cdnvic]

I am a mix of BOTH categories, and I bet my bottom baht, that MOST expats are also a mix. So basically I think the categories are total rubbish.

I take allot of crap from people on this board for defending the locals driving style.

Its improved exponentially over the past decade.

[Indonews]

The farangs in thai have an explosioum in the years 2008-2010. i fly too much, and never saw many farangs in thai as 2009-2010.

But the farangs not fly only to th, also to indonesia, vietnam and china. recently i saw many farangs also in taiwan. the situation is particularry problematic for the indochinese people.

How is it problematic? Too much competition?

sure. But this year the bath has changed the plain of many farangs. Increase europe, cuba and malaysia.

Edited June 23, 2010 by Indonews

[filingaccount]

Obviously both Mr. Stickman and I are offering our opinions.

...

Not very obvious, but good to see you clear it up.

[Berkshire]

Obviously both Mr. Stickman and I are offering our opinions.

...

Not very obvious, but good to see you clear it up.

Hmmm, wouldn't you say that pretty much everything written on TV is assumed to be an "opinion," unless clearly portrayed as "fact?" I know we're splitting hairs here, but I do recall that my original post said something along the lines that "I'd tend to agree with the Stickman that more are coming than leaving." This would imply that both his and my comments are opinions, because if his comments were taken as fact, there wouldn't be a "tendency to agree," but rather an opinion as to why the facts are what they are. This is getting technical (or anal even) and I'm sure someone's going slam me for this. But you did bring it up.

[StreetCowboy]

I think more foreigners are living everywhere, with the double curse of more foreign tourists, thanks to the curse of cheap airfares.

When I grew up, none of my school friends lived in foreign countries. Now, of the three of us that used to play together in infant school, we're all living in foreign countries.

SC

[bonobo]

The problem with your assumption is that the OP is merely giving a subjective analysis on his observations.  And that belies statistical backing.  This is not the same as asserting that the HIV rate is going up or down, or that Thais are banking more or less of their income.  All of these are verifiable, and if someone makes a blanket statement on one of those, asking for the stats to back that up would be appropriate.

But for a subjective analysis, then asking for stats really is specious.  How can there be stats for something so subjective?  I can assert that there are two kinds of fish in the world, good-tasting ones and bad tasting ones.  Someone else can disagree and state there are three kinds:  small ones,s middle-sized ones, and big ones. These are two classifications based on both of our subjective opinions.  And neither can be backed by statistics.

Others have taken issue with the OP's classifications saying they are not complete or accurate.  And they may seem simplistic, but within the context of his arguments, they may or may not be adequate.  But to ask for statistics to back up his analysis is really pretty silly.

To make it perfectly clear, I do not have problem with <opinion>, however it must be stated as such, otherwise it might be misread as<fact>. And <fact> needs verifiable <data> to be valid.

Again, if <data> is insuficient or non-existent, then be fully prepared for <disapproval>.

You'll notice I didn't comment on the parts where OP presented <opinion>, just the parts where <opinion> was presented as <fact>.

And to show you the difference - as short as I can - so no further misunderstandings happen.

Sample 1

"bonobo is fat" <opinion presented as fact>

"How do you know?" <enquiry>

"Because" <insufficient data>

"You full of it" <disapproval>

"No you are" <argument> (or a variation of any other segregation comment)

Sample 2

"I think bonobo is fat" <opinion>

"Why do you think so?" <enquiry>

"Because" <subjective data>

"Oh, ok, if you think so..." <conclusion>

Small differences in presentation could mean huge differences in response.

If <you> choose to go <anal> on the <OP><'s> simple subjective <analysis>, so be <it.>  < >

[mahtin]

Start

got to top of class

go to start

[tommybkk]

I live in China and I go to Thailand once in a while. Last time I was in Chiang Mai and hooked up with several "farang" men and women that were about the same age as me (early 20's) that I met in a bar.

After spending a few hours with them I noticed most of these people are worthless, yet adventurous but I couldn't agree on many things with them. Most of them proibably are being supported by their own family and are just having a long vacation there while others are working hard for their money and trying to spend every free time they have in Thailand.

Their attitudes can be rude and weird. I remember they were laughing at me and not being friendly, I have no idea why but god... they should have known that I was probably earning their yearly expenses in about a month time back in China. Hope they live happy there and in my opinion most of them are worthless people trying to escape the real world by leaving their brain at the airport and not thinking like it should be done.

I'm happy here without all these white foreigners around me. When I tell them I work in China I usually don't tell them that i'm also the main shareholder and director of the company but most of them act surprised like if China is so far away or if like it's something special. These foreigners that are just wandering around without knowing anything about real life just they know the value of their 1000 baht bill. That's pathetic.

In my opinion, most of these youngsters are worthless. For me Thailand is kind of a hate it and love it situation, I rather be alone there and not be surrounded by these type of youngsters or even older men. No offence to the respectable persons that I meet.

Edited June 26, 2010 by tommybkk

[Ulysses G.]

Their attitudes can be rude and weird. I remember they were laughing at me and not being friendly, I have no idea why but god... they should have known that I was probably earning their yearly expenses in about a month time back in China.

Frankly, after reading some of your posts I am not at all surprised. These young people seem to be good judges of character. Who cares how much money you make?

Edited June 27, 2010 by Ulysses G.

[stander]

I came to live in Hua Hin in the mid eighties and at that time there was probably no more than 30/40 expats and very few tourist, but it did get busier at the weekends with the BKK crowded. There were very few tourists and now I would say there are probably somewhere in the region of 3000 living permanently here.

[StreetCowboy]

8>< SNIP NESTED QUOTES DELETED ><8

Frankly, after reading some of your posts I am not at all surprised. These young people seem to be good judges of character. Who cares how much money you make?

I suppose posting in a foreign language makes it difficult for him to convey his point in a sympathetic manner, and coming from a different culture than you or I, his value system is probably slightly different; he may well be a genuinely pleasant person face-to-face.

though I too am glad that I don't have to take that chance.

SC

PS In answer to your question, I think Tommy himself cares quite deeply; it seems a matter of some importance to him.

[kopite]

the type of farang that makes my blood boil, is the type that moans he has no money, holes in his clothes, but thinks nothing of spending a 1000 baht on a brass.

theres lots of people that are living here that maybe invested money into a business, a woman or property and have come unstuck . for every person that sits in bar drowning his sorrows and being bitter, there is someone who is doing his best to succeed, even though times are hard.

i also cant stand the snobs and know it alls. there really are some very stuck up expats living in los. but im a younger age than most, so maybe because of my way of living and thinking i notice it a bit more.

still, ive met some of the greatest friends ill ever have in my life here, my glass is always half full

[jan1van1hooten]

What are the hard statistics on Euro-caucasion settlement in Thailand?

Is there really a farang explosion? We need these before we can make this conversation anything more than a rant.

It would be good in a geopolitical sense if there were a greater euro population in thailand and the entire far east

because this would act as a counterweight to the dominance of some asian groups

that are either flooding in and deteriorating the moral climate or have already established dominance.

No group has a monopoly or absence of racism in its character,

so the greater the mix of ethnic groups the more tempered this human weakness will be.

[StreetCowboy]

the type of farang that makes my blood boil, is the type that moans he has no money, holes in his clothes, but thinks nothing of spending a 1000 baht on a brass.

theres lots of people that are living here that maybe invested money into a business, a woman or property and have come unstuck . for every person that sits in bar drowning his sorrows and being bitter, there is someone who is doing his best to succeed, even though times are hard.

i also cant stand the snobs and know it alls. there really are some very stuck up expats living in los. but im a younger age than most, so maybe because of my way of living and thinking i notice it a bit more.

still, ive met some of the greatest friends ill ever have in my life here, my glass is always half full

I think you need to let your prejudices and bigotries mature a little before you let them air.

Come back once you've taken a bit more out of your glass. May God refil it from time to time.

I get fed up with people criticising the way others look, what they spend their money on and so forth.

For those of us with more money than charm, good looks or common sense, its painful to be criticised for its diminishment.

SC

[Ulysses G.]

For those of us with more money than charm, good looks or common sense, its painful to be criticised for its diminishment.  

No one can say that you are not honest. 

[StreetCowboy]

For those of us with more money than charm, good looks or common sense, its painful to be criticised for its diminishment.

No one can say that you are not honest.

And boastful, too

[My Friend Same]

falongs are always coming here for months or years. Then their cash runs out and they have to go home. this has not changed

[Penefattore]

TV is just congested with the Cat 2's. What Thailand needs more of are the Cat 1's.

The problem is Thailand fully deserves only Cat 2s