No Need To Turn Off The Television In Thailand

[The Coder]

Think a moment about the 10 million visitors to Thailand each year. Many international flights pull into BKK around midnight. What's the first thing you do when you get in your hotel? Turn on the TV. Certainly every hotel is going to find it necessary to put a big sticker on the TV saying "no service after midnight" to keep everyone from calling the front desk that the TV is broken. That could give a fairly downbeat first impression of Thailand to investors and tourists alike.

[chownah]

Yes - they have made an extra long ladder & some Thai guy is going to climb up to the satellite each night & switch it off. No safety ropes, of course.

It does make me wonder just how much trouble is Thailand in, here ? What's actually behind this drive to save electricity ? Don't consumers & companies pay for what they use ? Is this no longer convering the costs ?

Pedro

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I'm not an economist but I think I understand the problem. Virtually all the oil used in Thailand is imported. When you import oil you must pay for it and the money goes to a company in another country. This means that Thai baht are being shipped overseas (Actually it is probably US dollars but this fact is really irrelevant). What this means is that there is less money here in Thailand for everyone here. Gradually Thailand looses its money and you end up with an insolvent country. This is an overly simplistic model of what happens. If you want to know more details and how economists view this you can read about 'foreign deficit' or 'balance of payments' or 'trade imbalance'.

Another way is to imagine Thialand as being a village. There is a certain amount of money and if everyone employs each other and buys stuff only from people inside the village then the money supply doesn't change and it just goes round and round. If everyone decides to buy something from outside the village, like anything, then some of the money will leave the village and there will be less for the villagers. If there is not enough money in the village for people to buy stuff then there is no incentive for people in the village ot make stuff so people stop working because there is no money to be made. People become unproductive......blah blah blah.....

[MaiChai]

Ah, I see. So its not about oil, its about sending all your money abroad. So you need forex to buy the oil, but all you need is a tsuami to stop the foriengers comming. Thus more forex going out then comming in.

I love Thailand, dont get me wrong, but forward planning is not a Thai attribute (in general terms). Thus, they must have known that a growing economy needs power, and thus in general terms this could be planned for.

Thailand has alot of gas in the Gulf of Thailand? You can use that to generate power. How about nuclear power generation; this is what countries who do not have oil, etc, use to generate power. Ok, its not as safe as oil, but then its much cheaper. Maybe they should concentrate less on giving large projects to the big construction companies to keep them monied and build less of those dual carriageways that are poping up everywhere, and spend money on future power generation that does not use oil. Its just planning right?

Me thinks there is more going on in the background than the government is letting known. Are we in for a big surprise sometime soon?

Teaching Thais to be prudent? Well that is radical

Edited June 25, 2005 by MaiChai

[MaiChai]

Hey I have been thinking about this for a while: Inverter aircon uses 30% less power than traditional/basic aircon. How about inverter upgrade kits for your aircon? Can you get ones for Mitsubishi aircon (the most popular/cheapest)? Anyone know anything about this?

[Johnny Dee Rock]

Taksin is worried about using all of his dollar reserves to buy oil. This will leave no money for expensive airports, fighter planes, and other imported technology. Voluntary reductions in consumption in Thailand are as practical a solution as voluntary compliance with traffic regulations. The govt has an endless string of options which it can employ which would raise the price of energy for most people. These same options would also initiate a cost push inflation throughout the economy. Politicians hate to make the right decisions that would hurt them at the polls.

The cost of a vote in rural Issan would go from 200 to 300 baht.

Mai bpen rai.

[IsaanAlex]

The cost of a vote in rural Issan would go from 200 to 300 baht.

Mai bpen rai.

I knew my wife didn't get ripped off; she got 200 baht.

A friend swears his wife got paid off 500 baht!

[bluie]

One would think that it if they were realy seriousabout saving energy they

would enforce the law on the road, i.e.ban all non licence holders and confiscate

the vehicles if they don't comply, and in addition just think how many lives would

be saved, especialy the under age children who ride around on motorbikes, but then I suppose that the refinaries would complain that they couldn't sell there fuel.

This would also give the goverment a starting point to introduce a realistic

Driver training program.

[Amethyst]

Maybe ill go to my Car and watch DVD on the LCD screen after 12 am....hahahhaha

[maprao]

It seems to me that there are a bunch of brainless people in Thailand!

The above are not solutions to the crisis. The following are better nation-wide solutions:

- Alternate day vehicle operation based on even-odd number license plate.

-Many sensible ideas here but this one sorry If anyone remembers the oil crisis of the 1970s a similar thing solution was attempted in South America except they used Blue, Red and White number plates. It affected only the less fortunate. I was only 6 years old and to this day I remember my father had 3 cars each with different coloured plates. Driving whichever one was allowed on the Day

I remember this solution with to this day!

[spacebass]

still dont understand how it is a cost to the economy as everybody pays for the energy he use.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Because if Thailand generates electricity from oil then this oil is imported and paid for in $US so it costs the government foreifn exchange and adversely affects the balance of payments.

[MaiChai]

Oil is running out, but no one wants to acknologe it or address it as a problem:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/3777413.stm

http://edition.cnn.com/2003/WORLD/europe/1...global.warming/

http://www.lifeaftertheoilcrash.net/

[Martin]

I have seen lots of underage kids on motorbikes, but none of them riding unsafely. The dangerous ones round here are the "boy racers" who are no longer underage for a licence, but are still too adolescent to ride sensibly.

One would think that young people with enough brains to get a place at University would have enough brains to protect their brains with a crash helmet, but an awful lot havent!!

[albert dickinson]

have read all the articles on energy saving.why not put the clocks back one hour,this is called daylight saving time albert

[Chiangmai Paul]

Thailand sells vision for energy-saving remote control

BANGKOK: -- Turn off the television in Thailand, the Government will do it for you. Amid an energy crisis, the Government has told TV and radio stations to shut down from midnight each night or face broadcasting bans.

TV companies say they will comply if the Government makes it compulsory for all, but they warn that a blackout will not cut power usage.

The blackout was among voluntary measures recommended this week by the Energy Policy and Planning Office to lower energy consumption.

Other recommendations include increasing air-conditioning temperatures in Government offices to 25 degrees, and shutting down systems at lunch and from 4pm to 9am; asking golf courses to switch off unnecessary lights; and asking people to use their cars less at weekends.

"It's time for a serious saving of energy consumption by all the people in the country," Prime Minister Thaksin Shinawatra said. "I urge everyone to do their part to help conserve energy. We need to tighten our belts really hard."

Thailand's energy crisis is not about a shortage of power, but its cost to the economy.

"We are addicted to oil. We consume it in many ways, household, industrial and electricity," said energy researcher Suthakij Nuntavorakarn.

The Government has threatened to make the broadcasting measures compulsory if power use is not reduced by 10 per cent over three months.

--The Age, AU, 2005-06-24

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Very interesting

One must ask the question, does Mr big also intend to turn the lights off on his red carpet road in Sankampaeng, there are more lights on this patch of road then in the entire kingdom

[kidtongue]

&lt;deleted&gt;?

What is all this energy saving really about?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Well maybe not so much brainless as clueless. Thailand has, by its own definition only 10 years of Natural Gas left, so switching to LNG/Propane verhicles isn't going to help much. Wave differential engines require something like the Bay of Fundy or Inchon to be economical, and Indonesia/Australian coal is likely to get more expensive rather than less.

If Toxin really wants to bite the bullet he should raise petrol prices and diesel prices for the retail buyer. Try buying gasoline in Sweden or South Korea. While everyone will complain initially, a large enough bite would shift demand Closing the malls and megastores at 9 PM is an alternative, *or*, only allowing them to be open between say 6 PM and 8 AM (off peak) might work as well.

As large trucks are already required to be off-the-road in Bkk until after 10 PM, the alernate number idea has real merit but I think it will really take "fuel rationing", getting the bus fleet modernized to the point where it uses more than it smokes, mass transit, an intercity rail system that works, income tax credits for anyone actually using a solar panel capable of generating more than 150 watts and raising taxi prices to European equivalency.

Of course no one should like this because it will also mean that everyone will need a salary increase from nurses and teachers to electricians and plumbers. Haircuts will cost 300 baht and the water bills will rise. In short, both government and private service costs will rise, in some cases dramatically and a lot of expats will move on to Vietnam, Western China or Brazil. The garment industry is getting ready to close up next year taking out 35,000 jobs anyway, so such a move would be along the trend line. With paradise no longer affordable or competitive property prices would once again stall, allowing Thais to scoop of abandoned condos as panicked farangs get while they still have flights out. The farangs being gone, the Thais can reclaim Bkk and other cities thus reducing transit needs and costs and thus concluding the never-ending wisdom of Thai Rak Thai.

1 Pound Sterling for a 2548 1 stang coin. New lamps for old.

[Chiangmai Paul]

Hey I have been thinking about this for a while: Inverter aircon uses 30% less power than traditional/basic aircon. How about inverter upgrade kits for your aircon? Can you get ones for Mitsubishi aircon (the most popular/cheapest)? Anyone know anything about this?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Why not try central type A/C unit, my wife and i suggested this to our muu barn poo bar and they just looked at us like we were from mars.

Its simple 1 unit to cool the house with different zones that can be turned on and off ...much cheaper then aunning 7 stand alone units that we are now facing in our house

[Whitey]

Maybe I am the only halfway intelligent person responding to this thread or m aybe I have turned Thai but I think shutting down the tv transmitters after midnight is a great idea. Not to stop people from using TV though it might stop some, but think about how transmitters are in Thailand. Just about every province has at least one transmitters and if you figure out how many channels, there easily could be in excess of 500 to 1000 transmitters of tv and radio in Thailand. At 50kw per pop, that could save 50megawatts per hour of blackout. Not to mention there is much more use of power than just the trnasmitters, air con to cool, faciltiies that need to be manned. Get the idea? 250megawatts per day of saved energy for shutting down 5 hours. Maybe my figures are off, but not that much. Don't knock the government, shutting down the tv and radio trnasmitters is a good idea.

[eddie11]

If the Government helped poorer people get

solar power for there homes this would greatly

reduce consumption.The whole of rural Thailand

could be self-sufficient.

As it is at the moment solar & wind power is way

out of your average Thais reach

[Totster]

If the Government helped poorer people get

solar power for there homes this would greatly

reduce consumption.The whole of rural Thailand

could be self-sufficient.

As it is at the moment solar & wind power is way

out of your average Thais reach

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Just out of interest... Does anyone know how many solar panels could supply a small village... it wouldn't be a bad idea... but what's the initial outlay..? I imagine it's quite high..

totster

[Crossy]

Maybe I am the only halfway intelligent person responding to this thread or m aybe I have turned Thai but I think shutting down the tv transmitters after midnight is a great idea. Not to stop people from using TV though it might stop some, but think about how transmitters are in Thailand. Just about every province has at least one transmitters and if you figure out how many channels, there easily could be in excess of 500 to 1000 transmitters of tv and radio in Thailand. At 50kw per pop, that could save 50megawatts per hour of blackout. Not to mention there is much more use of power than just the trnasmitters, air con to cool, faciltiies that need to be manned. Get the idea? 250megawatts per day of saved energy for shutting down 5 hours. Maybe my figures are off, but not that much. Don't knock the government, shutting down the tv and radio trnasmitters is a good idea.

Trouble is, the consumption of the transmitters does not decrease significantly when they are off-air. Big transmitters do not like to be switched off, if they are reliability suffers, a lot. When off air the tx remains powered and running maybe into a dummy load or just sending dead carrier

Also, why kill UBC, the uplink is in Singapore and the satellite uses solar power (or will Toxin be switching off the sun at midnight), so few people actually watch TV after midnight I doubt there will be significant reduction. We shall see.

[spencer]

I have seen lots of underage kids on motorbikes, but none of them riding unsafely. The dangerous ones round here are the "boy racers" who are no longer underage for a licence, but are still too adolescent to ride sensibly.

One would think that young people with enough brains to get a place at University would have enough brains to protect their brains with a crash helmet, but an awful lot havent!!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Ask any thai girl with a motorbike what the mirrors on the bike are for ? So i can check my makeup or Hair

The biggest problem with the motorcycle riders are that they do not look before they turn and they never check behind them. Get on, look straight ahead, and go. My wife tells me that it is because they have a law that if a car hits a motorcycle the driver of the car is automatically at fault. Not too sure about that but it may be what the average thai thinks.

More of a note on why the oil consumption is a concern. The people mentioning the trade imbalance are correct. The oil has to be paid for with US$. This means that they have no choice but to sell baht to buy dollars. If the people that have the dollars say they want 42 baht to the dollar then the price in baht is higher. Then thailand must use another currancy to buy their Baht back. If they have more baht going out to buy dollars than they have foreign currancy coming in from exports or tourism then the baht weakens even further. This makes the price for oil even higher in baht terms. Notice that the price per liter increases and decreases with the exchange rate for US$.

[stoneman]

One of the big problems with all these ideas is the effect that it can have on tourism and Thailand needs tourists to survive...

When the tourists understand that all TV goes off at midnight( simple stretch to close bars and cafes at midnight) and no alcohol during the afternoon(even wine or beer with lunch), Thailand's tourism problems will significantly increase...

And tourism is a major contributor to foreign exchange....

[chiangrai57020]

Odd-Even Plates. For curiosities sake, How many Thai families have or can afford more than one vehicle? I agree that the ‘wealthy’ probably have ‘many’ vehicles but the whole point, according, to the Thai government is to cut energy use. Vehicles in Thai are not built with the energy efficiency that is a ‘requirement’ in the USA, therefore, it is my opinion, that cars on the roads of Thailand are not very energy efficient.

For the people that state - Speed does not reduce consumption! Gas mileage decreases rapidly at speeds above 60 mph (100KPH). Each mpg driven over 60 will result in an additional 10 cents per gallon. To maintain a constant speed on the highway, cruise control is recommended. http://sev.prnewswire.com/auto/20050405/DC...04042005-1.html

In highway driving, more than 50 percent of the energy required to move your car down the road goes to overcoming aerodynamic drag (pushing air out of the way). As you drive faster, aerodynamic drag and rolling resistance increase. As a result, at speeds above 55 mph (90KPH), fuel economy decreases rapidly. http://www.herelectricvehicle.com/pump.html. http://www.energy.iastate.edu/news/pr/pr-gasmileage.html

Turning off the TV at midnight! Where is the savings in accomplishing this? How many people in Thailand are watching TV after midnight? Did the ‘ministers’ go out and do a survey? It is ‘my opinion’ that very few of the 60 million plus people in Thailand are watching TV after midnight. So, if there is any savings, it would be minimal.

I also realize that enforcing a 90 KPH speed limit in Thailand would be ‘extremely difficult’ but not impossible. Time checks between police checkpoints would be one option. Very heavy fines assessed for violators.

My whole point is that there are better alternatives for energy reduction than those that have been suggested by the government ‘ministers.’ A little research by these ‘folks’ would provide the solution to ‘their’ problem with little impact on the lives of ‘their’ citizens.

[Scott]

The TV shutdown sounds like a gimmick or a control issue. If anything, it would be better for people to stay home and watch TV.

As I understand energy conservation, the real goal has to be to bring down peak demand. Once a power generator is on line and working, you cannot just shut it down. The trick is to keep from putting more on line. During peak times, they have to fire up more turbines that then continue to produce (steam for the turbines--I believe). The gov't needs to let everyone know when peak consumption is and encourage people to not use at these times.

Years ago our power company put adds on Tv saying power consumption was highest between 6:00 p.m. and 8:00 p.m. (Winter time) because everyone was home, cooking dinner, heat turned up, lights on. They asked for reductions and got them. People put timers on ovens, so dinner was done when they got home, turned off lights, timers on hot water heaters were set to shut off then etc. It was enormously successful.

Logical thinking, planning and cooperation from everyone--even stores needs to take place.

[The Nemi]

LOL Rumpole........

This is not a solution to save energy according to me......no way......

Blank channel with hissing sound can be used to hypnotize someone

There shud be a good way out of this....

Also reducing AC maintained temperatures wud reduce the work efficiency.

Well auto shut down for AC's during lunch hours sounds a bit OK, but then also turning an AC ON n OFF also needs energy..so have something to think abt on this one

Yeh turning OFF lights for the Golf Grounds if no one is using it is sensible though.

Anyways lets scratch out brains and help them

[MrSnrang]

What about the huge parkings at all of the Tescos? Those could be lined with solar panels to give shade for cars and power lights.

An international company like Tesco should have no problem at least partially using ther parking lots for lights.

Or, those solar panels could be used to separate hydrogen from oxygen for hydrogen-powered engines and generatore, if I am not mistaken.

The sun is an endless source of unused energy.

[marios]

still dont understand how it is a cost to the economy as everybody pays for the energy he use.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I think the answer to this is simple.

Paying more for petrol, electricity and for the costlier goods and services arising from the energy hikes has as a result a reduction in disposable income for the masses who will buy less and invest less.Buying/investing less is the anathema of economic theory. Zero purchases =zero economy.

The only way of course is for the people to voluntarily reduce their energy consumption. This cannot be achieved fully of course. Measures must be taken and some of them as proposed by the PM had been actually enforced during the oil shokku, as the Japanese called it, in 1973 and 1978 in many countries.

All the measures have their merits and weaknesses and all have a bitter taste.

They(the government) must be very careful however not to affect very visibly the life of the tourists. A visitor for example must be able to enjoy nightlife and UBC at his hotel.

As for the transmitters, it is not their actual power consumption which matters but the fact that after shutdown time, most people will go to bed, switching the lights and unecessary fans and appliances off.

[Scott]

The idea that people will go to bed and turn things off is a ruse. I am very seldom up after midnight, however, that said, I still don't want the gov't determining when (or what) I will watch on TV. At any rate, when I watch TV, that's it. No lights are on, certainly not the stove, not the computer, the stereo etc.

Now there are probably a lot of people who would stay out later, drive places etc. if they didn't have TV to watch. One of the best ways to keep people at home--and not driving is to have the TV on.

Hotels, hospitals and lots of people who work night shifts may be adversely affected by this ruling.

Energy needs to be conserved and everyone needs to to their part, but electricity is there for our convenience and enjoyment.

Let the price go up to the real market level and let consumers decide how/what sacrifices they are willing to make.

[sonnyJ]

I'm not an economist but I think I understand the problem.  Virtually all the oil used in Thailand is imported.  When you import oil you must pay for it and the money goes to a company in another country.  This means that Thai baht are being shipped overseas (Actually it is probably US dollars but this fact is really irrelevant).  What this means is that there is less money here in Thailand for everyone here.  Gradually Thailand looses its money and you end up with an insolvent country.  This is an overly simplistic model of what happens.  If you want to know more details and how economists view this you can read about 'foreign deficit' or 'balance of payments' or 'trade imbalance'.

Another way is to imagine Thialand as being a village.  There is a certain amount of money and if everyone employs each other and buys stuff only from people inside the village then the money supply doesn't change and it just goes round and round.  If everyone decides to buy something from outside the village, like anything, then some of the money will leave the village and there will be less for the villagers.  If there is not enough money in the village for people to buy stuff then there is no incentive for people in the village ot make stuff so people stop working because there is no money to be made.  People become unproductive......blah blah blah.....

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Yes there's defenitely a trade deficit, even the book i just bought; Thailand Statistics by The Brooker Group Plc says, every year there has been a trade surplus?

Even the petrol/diesel subsidicing price for government per year figure was some crazy billions and billions of baht. And greatly critiziced by foreign economics. This is dept for government to keep the goods moving and economy in somekind of balance. But for how long will this work?

People are buying new cars, condos, plasma screen tvs, mobiles,, etc. all in debt. Making 1 to 30 year payment plans..

Creates huge consuming power, but where does all this money come from in reality?

This all starts to look just like the basic reasons for the 1997 crash. That time Thailand sucked in the whole region. So it's not only a local issue.

[spacebass]

Odd-Even Plates.  For curiosities sake, How many Thai families have or can afford more than one vehicle?  I agree that the ‘wealthy’ probably have ‘many’ vehicles but the whole point, according, to the Thai government is to cut energy use.  Vehicles in Thai are not built with the energy efficiency that is a ‘requirement’ in the USA, therefore, it is my opinion, that cars on the roads of Thailand are not very energy efficient. 

For the people that state - Speed does not reduce consumption!  Gas mileage decreases rapidly at speeds above 60 mph (100KPH). Each mpg driven over 60 will result in an additional 10 cents per gallon. To maintain a constant speed on the highway, cruise control is recommended. http://sev.prnewswire.com/auto/20050405/DC...04042005-1.html

In highway driving, more than 50 percent of the energy required to move your car down the road goes to overcoming aerodynamic drag (pushing air out of the way). As you drive faster, aerodynamic drag and rolling resistance increase. As a result, at speeds above 55 mph (90KPH), fuel economy decreases rapidly. http://www.herelectricvehicle.com/pump.html. http://www.energy.iastate.edu/news/pr/pr-gasmileage.html

Turning off the TV at midnight!  Where is the savings in accomplishing this?  How many people in Thailand are watching TV after midnight?  Did the ‘ministers’ go out and do a survey?  It is ‘my opinion’ that very few of the 60 million plus people in Thailand are watching TV after midnight.  So, if there is any savings, it would be minimal.

I also realize that enforcing a 90 KPH speed limit in Thailand would be ‘extremely difficult’ but not impossible.  Time checks between police checkpoints would be one option.  Very heavy fines assessed for violators. 

My whole point is that there are better alternatives for energy reduction than those that have been suggested by the government ‘ministers.’  A little research by these ‘folks’ would provide the solution to ‘their’ problem with little impact on the lives of ‘their’ citizens.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I believe that energy conservation requirements for motor vehicles in the USA apply only to cars not to for example pick up trucks, and as pick up trucks (and other high consumption vehicles that are not cars) are a very large percentage of motor vehicles in the USA we have another example of the long standing self indulgence and pretend concern of the US government / populance for this big problem whilst actually completely ignoring it and misleading the rest of the world with regard to their intent in this regard, as usual!!! A 4 litre SUV in perfect tune in the US is probably a lot less fuel efficient than 90% of all out of tune 2.5 litre diesels in Thailand!!!!

Edited June 25, 2005 by spacebass