Thaksin Lawyer Slams Phony Thai Reconciliation

[JetsetBkk]

This is funny. I support the rural poor and want them to have a better deal. So I am labelled red by the yellows but the yellows don't like being labelled yellow by those it thinks are reds.

What a joke.

The joke is the patronising red cheerleaders who do not have one economic demand from the Thaksin forces except amnesty for Thaksin and violence on the streets. They certainly do not support the working class of Bangkok. Just burn their workplaces down. Stick that on their labels.

Point proven then.

[siampolee]

Who Really Is Robert Amsterdam?As the trial of fallen oligarch Mikhail Khodorkovsky begins anew in Russia, one name in particular keeps on surfacing again and again in its media coverage: Robert Amsterdam. Yet Amsterdam is not, contrary to what is often relayed in the media, Khodorkovsky’s lead lawyer in this affair (Vadim Kluvgant is).

Though Amsterdam is indeed one of Khodorkovsky’s legal representatives, he is not habilitated to represents Khodorkovsky in a Russian court of law. Amsterdam, however, is Khodorkovsky’s most ardent advocate on the international stage. In other words, Amsterdam is more of a lobbyist than a lawyer. Thereafter, the story becomes murkier, and more puzzling.

Given the high political stakes involved in Khodorkovsky’s new trial and given Amsterdam’s out-of-trial grandstanding on this issue, it is truly worth wondering: Who is Robert Amsterdam?

Defending the oligarch

It is not an exaggeration to say that Amsterdam became famous because of Khodorkovsky and the Yukos affair. A high-school drop out, Amsterdam attended Carleton University in Ottawa – where he studied Marxism – and got his law degree from Queen’s University in 1978. After being admitted to the bar two years later, in 1980, he founded his own law firm with a friend, Dean Peroff (Amsterdam & Peroff in Toronto).

Amsterdam’s official biography on Amsterdam & Perroff’s website lists his 25-year experience as including “numerous international disputes” in countries “as diverse as Hungary, Nigeria, Venezuela and Guatemala” and “deeply experienced with politically sensitive cases.”

In July 2003, after an otherwise low-profile and fairly uneventful career as a Toronto-based lawyer, Amsterdam met Khodorkovsky through a “mutual friend” in Washington, DC. This is, in any event, the official version as described by Amsterdam in the media during Khodorkovsky’s first trial. At this meeting, Amsterdam agreed to counsel Khodorkovsky and soon thereafter flew to Moscow, where Khodorkovsky’s partner, Platon Lebedev, had been arrested by the Russian authorities.

When Khodorkovsky and Yukos themselsves were put on trial in 2004, Amsterdam assumed a prime role for himself, becoming Khodorkovsky’s legal counsel and, more importantly, his mouthpiece beyond Russia. Within Russia, of course, Amsterdam was of little help, since he had neither legal authority in the country nor detailed knowledge of Russian law. According to several Russian lawyers, Amsterdam was also not very diligent with paperwork.

The ways in which this lawyer could help was simply by propagating Khodorkovsky’s plight to the world, brandishing him as a victim of a newly authoritarian Russia. In other words, Amsterdam turned Khodorkovsky into a symbol.

This strategy did not work, however. One might even say that it backfired, by turning Khodorkovsky into a symbol of Western liberalism just as Russia was turning its back on the “liberal” and humiliating 1990s.

In any event, Khodorkovsky was eventually found guilty of fraud and sentenced to nine years in jail (later reduced to eight). Meanwhile, Amsterdam’s visa was revoked and he was thrown out of Russia.

Even with Khodorkovsky jailed several thousand kilometers from Moscow, Amsterdam went back to work defending his client. In a seemingly continuous world tour, he began producing a barrage of information in all forms of media outlets as well as academic seminars and political conferences. Since it was announced that Khodorkovsky will stand trial again, Amsterdam’s activities have redoubled, along with his internet footprint.

Methods

Old friends of Amsterdam remember him as a “fonfer”, a Yiddish term for one who talks through his nose. A fonfer is also someone who brays his opinion to the world and uses the force of emotion rather than logic or protocol to make his point. This is not an entirely negative trait for a lawyer. It is, however, an even better one for a lobbyist.

To begin with, Amsterdam & Peroff’s website has direct links to two of Amsterdam’s official blogs, www.corporateforeignpolicy.com and www.robertamsterdam.com. The eponymous blog, which consistently ranks among the top Google results made on Russia, was launched in English in 2006, and is now also available in French, Polish, German and Spanish.

These blogs, which are professionally run and prolific, post just about any negative article written on Russia. And there are many more blogs that can be traced back to Amsterdam.

It is worth noting that, through his blogging activities, particularly on sites devoted to Mikhail Khodorkovsky (www.letthemgonow.com, www.khodorkovsky.com, etc.), Amsterdam is almost certainly in breach of the Canadian Law Society’s Rules of Professional conduct as well as the Law Society of England and Wales. This is all the more blatant considering that the links to Amsterdam’s two major blogs are posted directly on his firm’s web page.

What is more, by frequently cutting and pasting non-public newspaper articles such as those from the Wall Street Journal, Amsterdam seems to be infringing copyright laws with impunity.

Most amazingly, Amsterdam’s biography on his own firm’s website states that Amsterdam is a member of the New York Bar Association (www.amsterdamandperoff.com/amsterdam.html).

Yet Amsterdam is not a member of the New York bar. Such false representation is an unsettling form of fraud, particularly from a lawyer supposedly defending the rule of law around the world.

In the name of what or whom?

Amsterdam is therefore best described as a lobbyist rather than a lawyer. Since his strategy does not seem to be benefiting his client very much, it is worth wondering, then, what exactly Amsterdam is lobbying for, and on whose behalf.

Given Amsterdam’s activities and spotty past, there has been speculation that he is on the CIA or MI5 payroll. Given Amsterdam’s level of contacts worldwide and his strange background prior to 2003, this is a legitimate question. Such a direct link, however, seems unlikely:.

Nevertheless, without actually being a salaried agent, one may speculate that, at the very least, Amsterdam gladly trades information with Western secret services – and indeed does much of the work for them, b

It is also strange and dubiously ethical for an international lawyer to live in a £ 3,000,000 London home at Cavendish Avenue that is owned by a BVI-based company, or to have his professional expenses routed through a Guernsey-based limited company, Corbiere Trust Company. Surely such a murky figure is not best-placed to defend one now accused of embezzlement and money laundering.

In the end, it seems that Amsterdam is lobbying for himself. After all, who has gained most from all the publicity surrounding him.

Amsterdam’s job ought not to be self-publicity, however. Neither should it be an impassioned crusade against what he considers a rogue regime. Indeed, as a lawyer Amsterdam’s top priority should rather be to get his clients cleared of all charges. So far, nothing demonstrates that Amsterdam’s actions have helped his clients – quite the contrary.

Considering that Thaksin is facing charges that could lead to more than 20 years in jail, Khodorkovsky himself should really be the first to wonder, who is Robert Amsterdam ?

A fine example of a clone of Thaksin a liar, cheat and self serving motivared by personal gain and greed.

Birds of the feather all flock together.

[animatic]

Who Really Is Robert Amsterdam?As the trial of fallen oligarch Mikhail Khodorkovsky begins anew in Russia, one name in particular keeps on surfacing again and again in its media coverage: Robert Amsterdam. Yet Amsterdam is not, contrary to what is often relayed in the media, Khodorkovsky's lead lawyer in this affair (Vadim Kluvgant is).

Though Amsterdam is indeed one of Khodorkovsky's legal representatives, he is not habilitated to represents Khodorkovsky in a Russian court of law. Amsterdam, however, is Khodorkovsky's most ardent advocate on the international stage. In other words, Amsterdam is more of a lobbyist than a lawyer. Thereafter, the story becomes murkier, and more puzzling.

Given the high political stakes involved in Khodorkovsky's new trial and given Amsterdam's out-of-trial grandstanding on this issue, it is truly worth wondering: Who is Robert Amsterdam?

Defending the oligarch

It is not an exaggeration to say that Amsterdam became famous because of Khodorkovsky and the Yukos affair. A high-school drop out, Amsterdam attended Carleton University in Ottawa – where he studied Marxism – and got his law degree from Queen's University in 1978. After being admitted to the bar two years later, in 1980, he founded his own law firm with a friend, Dean Peroff (Amsterdam & Peroff in Toronto).

Amsterdam's official biography on Amsterdam & Perroff's website lists his 25-year experience as including "numerous international disputes" in countries "as diverse as Hungary, Nigeria, Venezuela and Guatemala" and "deeply experienced with politically sensitive cases."

In July 2003, after an otherwise low-profile and fairly uneventful career as a Toronto-based lawyer, Amsterdam met Khodorkovsky through a "mutual friend" in Washington, DC. This is, in any event, the official version as described by Amsterdam in the media during Khodorkovsky's first trial. At this meeting, Amsterdam agreed to counsel Khodorkovsky and soon thereafter flew to Moscow, where Khodorkovsky's partner, Platon Lebedev, had been arrested by the Russian authorities.

When Khodorkovsky and Yukos themselsves were put on trial in 2004, Amsterdam assumed a prime role for himself, becoming Khodorkovsky's legal counsel and, more importantly, his mouthpiece beyond Russia. Within Russia, of course, Amsterdam was of little help, since he had neither legal authority in the country nor detailed knowledge of Russian law. According to several Russian lawyers, Amsterdam was also not very diligent with paperwork.

The ways in which this lawyer could help was simply by propagating Khodorkovsky's plight to the world, brandishing him as a victim of a newly authoritarian Russia. In other words, Amsterdam turned Khodorkovsky into a symbol.

This strategy did not work, however. One might even say that it backfired, by turning Khodorkovsky into a symbol of Western liberalism just as Russia was turning its back on the "liberal" and humiliating 1990s.

In any event, Khodorkovsky was eventually found guilty of fraud and sentenced to nine years in jail (later reduced to eight). Meanwhile, Amsterdam's visa was revoked and he was thrown out of Russia.

Even with Khodorkovsky jailed several thousand kilometers from Moscow, Amsterdam went back to work defending his client. In a seemingly continuous world tour, he began producing a barrage of information in all forms of media outlets as well as academic seminars and political conferences. Since it was announced that Khodorkovsky will stand trial again, Amsterdam's activities have redoubled, along with his internet footprint.

Methods

Old friends of Amsterdam remember him as a "fonfer", a Yiddish term for one who talks through his nose. A fonfer is also someone who brays his opinion to the world and uses the force of emotion rather than logic or protocol to make his point. This is not an entirely negative trait for a lawyer. It is, however, an even better one for a lobbyist.

To begin with, Amsterdam & Peroff's website has direct links to two of Amsterdam's official blogs, www.corporateforeignpolicy.com and www.robertamsterdam.com. The eponymous blog, which consistently ranks among the top Google results made on Russia, was launched in English in 2006, and is now also available in French, Polish, German and Spanish.

These blogs, which are professionally run and prolific, post just about any negative article written on Russia. And there are many more blogs that can be traced back to Amsterdam.

It is worth noting that, through his blogging activities, particularly on sites devoted to Mikhail Khodorkovsky (www.letthemgonow.com, www.khodorkovsky.com, etc.), Amsterdam is almost certainly in breach of the Canadian Law Society's Rules of Professional conduct as well as the Law Society of England and Wales. This is all the more blatant considering that the links to Amsterdam's two major blogs are posted directly on his firm's web page.

What is more, by frequently cutting and pasting non-public newspaper articles such as those from the Wall Street Journal, Amsterdam seems to be infringing copyright laws with impunity.

Most amazingly, Amsterdam's biography on his own firm's website states that Amsterdam is a member of the New York Bar Association (www.amsterdamandperoff.com/amsterdam.html).

Yet Amsterdam is not a member of the New York bar. Such false representation is an unsettling form of fraud, particularly from a lawyer supposedly defending the rule of law around the world.

In the name of what or whom?

Amsterdam is therefore best described as a lobbyist rather than a lawyer. Since his strategy does not seem to be benefiting his client very much, it is worth wondering, then, what exactly Amsterdam is lobbying for, and on whose behalf.

Given Amsterdam's activities and spotty past, there has been speculation that he is on the CIA or MI5 payroll. Given Amsterdam's level of contacts worldwide and his strange background prior to 2003, this is a legitimate question. Such a direct link, however, seems unlikely:.

Nevertheless, without actually being a salaried agent, one may speculate that, at the very least, Amsterdam gladly trades information with Western secret services – and indeed does much of the work for them, b

It is also strange and dubiously ethical for an international lawyer to live in a £ 3,000,000 London home at Cavendish Avenue that is owned by a BVI-based company, or to have his professional expenses routed through a Guernsey-based limited company, Corbiere Trust Company. Surely such a murky figure is not best-placed to defend one now accused of embezzlement and money laundering.

In the end, it seems that Amsterdam is lobbying for himself. After all, who has gained most from all the publicity surrounding him.

Amsterdam's job ought not to be self-publicity, however. Neither should it be an impassioned crusade against what he considers a rogue regime. Indeed, as a lawyer Amsterdam's top priority should rather be to get his clients cleared of all charges. So far, nothing demonstrates that Amsterdam's actions have helped his clients – quite the contrary.

Considering that Thaksin is facing charges that could lead to more than 20 years in jail, Khodorkovsky himself should really be the first to wonder, who is Robert Amsterdam ?

A fine example of a clone of Thaksin a liar, cheat and self serving motivared by personal gain and greed.

Birds of the feather all flock together.

As I have noted before.

A Perception Management Professional.

Lawyer maybe true, but is more a title to make his pontifications seem more valid.

The idea is to swamp the world with as many blogs and corroborating HITS on the internet,

to make 'Press Researchers' working for reporters and governments come up with higher numbers

supporting their P.M. clients points of view on the world stage, and thus influence opinion makers

to take the side of the client. Regardless of the truth; a big lie told often enough can BECOME a truth

if those disputing it as an 'unreality' are silenced or marginalized, or just out spun.

Thaivisa is without a doubt a battle ground for Thaksin's war on world perceptions to re-lable

the Thai Government as the terrorists, and himself as the only 'True Thai Patriot 'in existence.

And I don't give a damned hamster what Bobby Baby says, he is not out for the real truth,

but to make his client look good in advance of internationally looming court issues.,

And having spent time behind the stage at the Red Rally's last week or so, before it turned utterly violent,

he has now left himself open for charges of aiding and abetting insurrection in Thailand,

as a farang interloper, because if it's not OK for the Irish/Ausi nutter and English twit to help

the Reds at the stage then, 'Bobby nose talker' is also on the edge of legalities for the same reasons.

Was he conspiring with the Red Leaders?

Fair questions.

----------------------------------

I am nostrils hear me roar

My work is takky; just a whore

If he loses, I'm out the door

to find well heeled scum to next adore.

Edited June 27, 2010 by animatic

[rabo]

Partial list of logical fallacies -

<clip long list of examples>

Deception by exclusion, indirect.

Deception by exclusion, indirect, is a method of disseminating invalid perceptions by indirect action, sometimes used on the TV forum. Deception by exclusion, indirect works this way.

Poster A makes an irrelevant point X by way of providing a large number of examples.

All of the examples contain a bias in the direction of a secondary target point T.

The target point T is not necessarily related to the irrelevant point X.

Upon reading so many biased points supporting T, unrelated to X, the readers subliminally begin to believe T.

Example:

Poster A discusses point X, illogical methods used by posters.

Poster A gives many examples which suggest the innocence of the red movement, target T.

Other posters begin to wonder if the reds are in fact completely innocent and the government is completely guilty.

Edited June 27, 2010 by rabo

[kissdani]

"A Perception Management Professional." ???

Using some anti-semitic propaganda and other stereotypes to attack a lawyer.

That is total BS. I am sure that if any of you Farangs could speak Russian language you would be able to find more stupid hate. But many of the Farangs with their conspiracy nonsense cannot even speak Thai.

[rubl]

"A Perception Management Professional." ???

Using some anti-semitic propaganda and other stereotypes to attack a lawyer.

That is total BS. I am sure that if any of you Farangs could speak Russian language you would be able to find more stupid hate. But many of the Farangs with their conspiracy nonsense cannot even speak Thai.

I didn't find any anti-semitic propaganda in either siampolee /animatic remarks. To quote in the meaning of your words "the nightsoil of a well-fed male oxen". The seconds paragraph is invalidated by the incorrect assumptions of the first. Ergo, you might as well have said nothing!

Edited June 27, 2010 by rubl

[animatic]

"A Perception Management Professional." ???

Using some anti-semitic propaganda and other stereotypes to attack a lawyer.

That is total BS. I am sure that if any of you Farangs could speak Russian language you would be able to find more stupid hate. But many of the Farangs with their conspiracy nonsense cannot even speak Thai.

Not in the least anti-semitic. it certainly IS a verbal whacking.

It is just a description of a manner of speech as observed in one cultural idiom.

I was making ironic humor from one take on the vernacular, which was quoted above.

I find him a pretty loathsome personality, which makes it easier to ridicule him

in the context of of his choice of client. I said nothing about his actual choice of faith.

And you need not be Jewish to be called a 'Fonfer', nor to use a Yiddish word for something.

You just need to know some Yiddish, and use it properly.

Nor am I in any way anti-semitic. Have you ever sat shiva with Hasidim? I have.

Of course one of the precepts of Perception Management work on the internet

is to try and slap down voices that go against the message the client wants delivered.

Hmmm , very much like you just tried to do to me...

Edited June 27, 2010 by animatic

[kissdani]

I didn't find any anti-semitic propaganda in either siampolee /animatic remarks. To quote in the meaning of your words "the nightsoil of a well-fed male oxen". The seconds paragraph is invalidated by the incorrect assumptions of the first. Ergo, you might as well have said nothing!

Read again. Not the first time that you have been unable to spot the nut-case. And "incorrect assumptions" - that is your way to argue.

QUOTE

...

Interesting to see that the lawyer Robert Amsterdam is a leading Zionist and an avid supporter of right wing Zionist and Israeli terrorist groups, along with being a racist as his comments show , his views regarding non Jews are alarming as are his comments concerning the racial and religious superiority of the Jewish people and their being the ''Master Race.''

...

My apologies to any lawyer call Robert Armstrong ( that is my lawyers name in the U.K. )

Classic Freudian slip.

Thanks to Plachon for pointing out my error.

I guess I was wrong, I thought RobertA did it for the money :-)

[rubl]

I didn't find any anti-semitic propaganda in either siampolee /animatic remarks. To quote in the meaning of your words "the nightsoil of a well-fed male oxen". The seconds paragraph is invalidated by the incorrect assumptions of the first. Ergo, you might as well have said nothing!

Read again. Not the first time that you have been unable to spot the nut-case. And "incorrect assumptions" - that is your way to argue.

QUOTE

...

Interesting to see that the lawyer Robert Amsterdam is a leading Zionist and an avid supporter of right wing Zionist and Israeli terrorist groups, along with being a racist as his comments show , his views regarding non Jews are alarming as are his comments concerning the racial and religious superiority of the Jewish people and their being the ''Master Race.''

...

My apologies to any lawyer call Robert Armstrong ( that is my lawyers name in the U.K. )

Classic Freudian slip.

Thanks to Plachon for pointing out my error.

I guess I was wrong, I thought RobertA did it for the money :-)

Very naughty. I refer to remarks made previously in THIS topic, you reply by quoting from a previous topic. Also using search I cannot find either siampolee's post or my reply. Interesting, are you keen on cut & paste?

Anyway in the replies I refer to (from THIS topic) there is NO anti-semitic remark at all.

When I say 'incorrect assumptions I ALSO say why. That's normal, polite behaviour amongst educated people.

Edited June 27, 2010 by rubl

[kissdani]

You see that curved arrow 3634618[/snapback]? click on it and your browser will be beamed up to that post by siampolee.

He writes or quotes often such silly stuff. You could call it "Perception Management Professional" At least some Farangs at TVF are happy to be feed with that BS.

[rubl]

You see that curved arrow 3634618[/snapback]? click on it and your browser will be beamed up to that post by siampolee.

He writes or quotes often such silly stuff. You could call it "Perception Management Professional" At least some Farangs at TVF are happy to be feed with that BS.

Thanks, I'm not ashamed to admit I'm still learning new things all the time.

Still wondering why you seem to call posters here 'farang' all the time?

[rubl]

You see that curved arrow 3634618[/snapback]? click on it and your browser will be beamed up to that post by siampolee.

He writes or quotes often such silly stuff. You could call it "Perception Management Professional" At least some Farangs at TVF are happy to be feed with that BS.

Thanks, I'm not ashamed to admit I'm still learning new things all the time.

Still wondering why you seem to call posters here 'farang' all the time?

Sorry, got distracted playing with a newly pointed out toy: "curved arrow".

With your help I can find the post you referred to and indeed it is in another topic "Thaksin calls for political dialogue, denies involvement in mayhem'. As I said, countering an argument referring to a post in another topic is naughty, especially when you forget to say so.

From one farang to another, in good spirit

Edited June 27, 2010 by rubl

[kissdani]

You see that curved arrow 3634618[/snapback]? click on it and your browser will be beamed up to that post by siampolee.

He writes or quotes often such silly stuff. You could call it "Perception Management Professional" At least some Farangs at TVF are happy to be feed with that BS.

Thanks, I'm not ashamed to admit I'm still learning new things all the time.

Still wondering why you seem to call posters here 'farang' all the time?

The Farang thingy - i think i started it when i had enough of some "All Thai are this" and "All Thai are that" comments and "Red Shirts GO HOME!!!" posts. The reds shirts are Thai, same as in Thailand, the country we are most of the time talking about. Some farangs seems to forget that.

[rubl]

You see that curved arrow 3634618[/snapback]? click on it and your browser will be beamed up to that post by siampolee.

He writes or quotes often such silly stuff. You could call it "Perception Management Professional" At least some Farangs at TVF are happy to be feed with that BS.

Thanks, I'm not ashamed to admit I'm still learning new things all the time.

Still wondering why you seem to call posters here 'farang' all the time?

The Farang thingy - i think i started it when i had enough of some "All Thai are this" and "All Thai are that" comments and "Red Shirts GO HOME!!!" posts. The reds shirts are Thai, same as in Thailand, the country we are most of the time talking about. Some farangs seems to forget that.

Most people react similarly whatever country they're from. As we humans have fought many wars, we also came up with many expressions to condemn or ridicule our enemies (victor or loser). It lets off steam and helps to identify who to blame without needing an explanation. Take this from a Dutch uncle who doesn't even need to drink to be able to talk double dutch

Edited June 27, 2010 by rubl