Cycling - Way Too Many Flat Tires

[123ace]

I have experinced the exact same problem with road bike wheels (3 times in immediate succession), I have not been able to assess the source, but suspect it is due to poor fit (by me) of the inner tube and over inflating.

[Ratsima]

I have experinced the exact same problem with road bike wheels (3 times in immediate succession), I have not been able to assess the source, but suspect it is due to poor fit (by me) of the inner tube and over inflating.

I can go with that. My wife calls me "Mr. Clumsy"…

I was extremely careful with fit this last time and have now gone nearly a week without a flat.

[el jefe]

There was an article in the NY Times on 21 July about flats caused by inflating tires in an a/c'd home and then riding in extreme heat. (Probably not the cause of the flats.) If you read all the comments, maybe something will "click" for you and you'll figure out the problem. The only thing I came away with is that maybe your tubes were very old and stored improperly (by the manufacturer and/or bike shop, not you).

NY Times article

[Ratsima]

Wow, thanks for that article. It appears I'm not the only one experiencing and increase in flats.

This kind of rang true to me:

Newer tubes leak air at a much faster rate. The slightly deflated tube can shift around inside the tire and rupture once its reinflated.

I'd never heard of 'air free' tires before. Maybe I'll look into those. Headed back to the US in September. Easy to pick some up.

[BBbUn]

Is the hole in your rim (the one drilled for the valve to pass through) sharp on the edges? If not you might want to file them smooth.

Flats with tubed tires can be such a pain because there are a fairly large number of possibilities of what can go wrong, and everytime the tire is taken off for a tube to be replaced, several new possible flat-factors are introduced. Assuming you have a tube that is not a defect, a thorough installation is paramount, and I've experienced so many changes by bike shops that have gone bad that I will only do them myself now, and if I had to change a tire in the dirt while I was out doing some single track, I'll take the tire off again when I get home to re-do it.

The rim tape needs to be good, the inside of the tire needs to be completely clear of particles, and the tube needs to be seated evenly inside the tire (a good way to do this is to inflate 1-2 pumps, massage the whole tire to make sure the tube is properly seated, and then continue inflating).

A definite solution is to go tubeless, although that might not be so practical for you because it'll require a new wheel and more expensive tires - prob not something you'd be interested in for road cycling.

Good luck anyway.

[Ratsima]

BBbUn - Good advice, well-taken. Upon thinking about it I realize that most of my flats have been on tubes replaced in the field. It's probably all down to my own haste and carelessness.

Lesson learned.

[Macx]

+1 with el jefe on the rubber washer made from an old tube. Works for me.

Also, check your pump and your strength/motion while engaging/disengaging the pump from the valve. Once I was in a hurry and tore the whole valve stem.

On another note, I've had many problems with tubes from Taiwan (Bonatrager, Nashbar, etc.). I get pinhole leaks at the weld seam. These don't patch well, because other pinholes just pop up nearby after a patch. These were on my road tires, running 90-110psi.

[burgdawg]

Ratsima...

8 August 2553

....know your agony. Consider it a rite by fire or something. Your Syphius Wheel.

I had 28 flats on my Yamaha motorbike while riding about Baja some years back. I learned MUCH about tyres

and repairing them. Fast.

Head to electrical or hardware store and ask for rubber reinforcing grommets, various sized diameters. You might have to overbore your current valve

stem hole to accomodate. Use soap or detergent for lube. If have trouble visualizing this, or explaining to hardware guy, pop the bonnet on your

car's hood to expose the engine. Point to any grommet, wire or cable running through the firewall to the passenger compartment. He'll

get the concept immediately.

Thai hardware stores are the best in the world. USA used to have them everywhere. Not anymore. 85% of them have gone underwater, as in out of

business to to the chain stores. Too bad. Now you've gotta buy a box of 100 bolts instead of two from some chain store.

I always sponsor my local hardware stores, always. I'm in there weekly getting something.

You want to reinforce your stem hole with rubber. You want all snug, no sloppy seconds.

I've been riding my Continental Sport Contact Slicks (made in India) that have a 3M reflective sidewall bead. I can be seen from 1km away.

I like night riding the best. I suss out my ride routes during the day on my Honda Wave and then ride like a maniac when the temps drop.

I have two front white strobe flashing headlights and two rear red Blinkies.

The front white strobes are the best. They reach 1km ahead of me, igniting the reflective Thai highway signs. This pulsing alerts the drivers

still far behind me that something is ahead. No close calls. Thailand is a supreme place to ride a bicycle. Some of my best rides, ever.

This front strobe light also alerts a Thai Specialty: oncoming motorbike traffic going cross grain. Which is a polite way of saying "the wrong direction."

Hey, it's Thailand. Oncoming traffic in your lane? Get used to it......

No flats in 3 years, touch wood.

Here's the systems approach I employ:

Start with high grade tyres and tubes. Get ahold (or have mate bring over) some Kevlar tube savers. Or they are called tyre liners.

You apply some talcum powder into your tyre first! Yes, get your OWN bottle. Your greasy fingers will upset your loved one.

As it is, she will find it more than hilarious that falang is ting tong ADDING talc powder to his <deleted>' bicycle tubes, hahahahahah!

Don't laugh, it works.

The Kevlar tube liner ends overlap each other inside. You do not trim to size. If you looked at one on edge, the twin edges are tapered.

After tube liner is installed, air up..slightly, your tube. I use SLIME tubes with Schraeder valves. These are tubes that have a green latex puncture resistant self-sealer

added to the interior of the tube. if you cannot get ahold of these magical tubes. you can find the equivalent via Google search for latex tyre tube additive.

I use the latex additive on my motorcycle tyre tubes as they do not make a SLIME tube for motorbikes.....yet.

Yes, they are self sealing. Who knows, maybe I did have a flat, but it sealed itself?

Punctures...or flats, take the wind out of anyone's sails. Use the latex additive. You'll be smiling AND riding.

You can air down the tyre tube slightly, but first inspect your wheel carefully for any knicks, rough seams, etc. Use a nail file or piece of

sand paper to smooth all rim dings out. Pop tyre and tube assembly onto wheel. If you use tyre levers, BE CAREFUL.

We all know of guys shredding their tubes during install. NEVER use a screwdriver, ever.

At the most use some aluminum or plastic tyre levers. You local tyre repair shop will have some long handled tyre levers, but be very careful.

Usually, I just pop on with my thumbs. I try to avoid levers at all costs.

Air up a bit more (10 hand pumps) and bounce the wheel as you spin it on a hard surface. You are sitting chair, spin tyre while holding the hub...bounce

on pavement. Repeat. You want to remove any pinches or tube creases.

Air up. You can go to hardware store or--- Home Pro or Tesco and suss out a 12v air pump for about 200b. Yeah, made in China. Everything is.

I added a quick disconnect from my 12 v battery terminal from my Honda Wave. This quick disconnect has a waterproof cap. It runs my GPS and

now, my tyre pump when called upon. Beats emptying out my boot to get to the battery to access ther terminals for 12v power. Make sense?

Or, use 12v car battery and alligator clips. Chug away. I run my tyres at 95lbs.

I weigh 110kgs and 196cm.

Rock hard tyres, great rolling resistance.

Suss out:

www.biketiresdirect.com

Go right to their tire section and tire accesories.

Or tyre?

Okay, no Kevlar tube liners in sight, what you do? Take a dead tube (looks like you have several) and cut the stem off. Split this tube down the

middle of inner line. What do I mean? Imagine an assembled bicycle wheel. Look at where the spokes enter the wheel itself, not at the hub.

You want to split that inner seam of your tube. This will become your reinforcing boot between your tyre and tube, got it?

You just made your own tube liner. I do this all the time for my motoscooters and motorcycles.

Yes, use talcum powder generously between each step and layer.

Your aluminum wheels have rec'd the grommet treatment and you are good to go.....

BTW, even if one has a damaged tyre carcass, yet with good tread, you can salvage some wear from this tyre.

Recall my Baja flats? I had hit a rock at speed, causing a percussion flat. it looks like rattle snake bite. I compressed everything

so severe that the rim ripped twin holes into tube. I fixed these punctures, but forgot to realize that the tyre CARCASS itself was damaged.

It kept re-flatting itself from a sprung steel cable within the tyre itself, d'oh. I felt like a dope for not realizing it sooner.

We all learn, sooner or later......

I finally sussed this out and fixed by applying a tube patch to the interior wall of my tyre. I've done this numerous times on my bicycle

tyres since. Works like a charm.

Happy riding....

Jim

[Ratsima]

burgdawg - Thanks for the comprehensive reply. I'm gonna visit the US next month. I'll look for (or order) the Slime inner tubes and liner.

So far, it's been three weeks without a flat. But, I'm loathe to take chances in the future.

Thanks again.

[burgdawg]

here's a YouTube vid on the after-market latex tube additive. I have motobuddies swear by it, kinda pricey:

Nope, I have no connection with this product line, nor folks involved.

BTW, some people like SLIME, others do not because it is messy.

Best that when you add this stuff, go for a ride immediately to spread it all about within your tube

via centrifugal force.

If one is riding in an area with many punctures, in the 1970s and 80s, NashBar and other bicycle places carried

this weird looking vinyl tube-wire tyre cleaners! Tough to mount if you are running fenders which are req'd in Thailand.

The principle was thus: for every wheel rotation, the adjustable gizmo would flick off your tyre any thorn, piece of glass, or nail

before it got jammed in further to create a puncture. I used them all the time on my road bike. Easy to make at home.

One loop of wire attaches to the bicycle frame or fender..then add two short, very small diameter vinyl tubing pieces. Like aquarium tubing.

Then a loop of wire in a humped form, the profile of a tyre. This wire gizmo is adjustable as you do not want it too far away from the tire, nor

burning pressure. You could adjust it just right and it's job was to flick off any accumulated road debris. Maybe NashBar still carries them?

Personally, am not a big fan of mtn bike tyres...they make too much noise. I used to live in a mountainous area where the knobbies were req'd.

The hills were 1/18s

That is, you were in 1st or 18th gear...either walking your bike up, or white knuckle race to below. Ugh.

I like rolling countryside and Thailand fits the bill.

All those great dalats along the way, the smells and plenty of places to stop for a quick bite to eat

and to replenish one'e water stash.....

[BikeThailand]

Mr Hippo 45 psi should be fine for a MTB. (nothing to do with a road bike)

Use a Kenda not Kenda light as they have similar problems.

Many years ago Vittorio inner tubes had the best reputation, however, looks like they took them of the local market for some reasons. (they are made in Thailand)

Same with Continental (made in Thailand) good stuff but difficult to find.

4300 should be double walled bontrager stuff. (with blue/white stickers on it?) Had problems with these rims myself.

Change the rim (Alex double walled) for around 500 baht and use the same spokes to rebuild the wheel, should be around 750 baht in total.

750 :150 = 5 innertubes.

While you are right about the mountain bike tire inflation for most, I (along with Mr. Hippo) need a much higher inflation on my mountain bike as I am more than 105 KG and will get pinch flats.

Now, to get back to the main problem, I have to say that though Geox is usually a decent brand the Camel and Vee tubes are complete $#i+ and to only be used in case of emergency. It does look like there might be some excessive movement when pumping the tires which will cause many of the cheaper tubes to tear or become unattached at the valve a little quicker than normal but the bad luck of one decent tube going in addition to using many $#i+ tubes doesn't help. I'm assuming this mountain bike shop is a LA Bicycle shop? They are perfect for what they are, but often my drivers know more about changing flats than they do.

Best of luck with it and don't give up on the cycling just yet. Wish I was nearby so I could do some trial and error along with you.

By the way, Vittoria and Continental are both made for export only to qualify for certain tax breaks and for them to sell into Thailand they have to export them first and then re-import them paying an extremely high tax so most bicyclist won't pay that for something made in Thailand. They can do it all without moving the tires in and out but still have to pay the taxes that they are sheltered from as an export only item. At least that is what I heard when I was in the tire business.

Safe cycling to all!

Cheers, Chris

[burgdawg]

...just rec'd my 225-250ml bottle of TyreGuardian in the mail. Made in Australia.

Expensive stuff, 1,000b and it might do four bicycle tyres, gheez.

I bought it for my motorbike tyres with slow leaks.

Here's what it says on the bottle:

Moped/Scooter/Bicycle tire: 50 ml

Motorcycle (as in KLR650, Kawasaki Dirt Tracker 250, Honda XR650L, Honda Africa Twin): 75 ml front tire, 125 ml rear tire.

ATC: 125 ml

Stuff is pricey. Called up and chatted with an old motorbike hand...used to race Baja, Hare and Hounds, Vegas/Barstow, etc. to pick his brain.

He said they would swear by this stuff called "PCC Tire Sealant." I have NOT tried it, but here is the Google search sresults:

http://www.google.com/#hl=en&source=hp&q=PCC+tire+sealant&aq=f&aqi=&aql=&oq=&gs_rfai=CCK9WbiFmTLu1GoPSiAPpocWICQAAAKoEBU_QFvFT&fp=1e686e6151f88d2a

[burgdawg]

...then I typed in "latex tire sealant available in Bangkok, Thailand"

http://www.google.com/#hl=en&source=hp&q=latex+tire+sealant+available+in+Bangkok%2C+Thailand&btnG=Google+Search&aq=f&aqi=&aql=&oq=latex+tire+sealant+available+in+Bangkok%2C+Thailand&gs_rfai=CxtNeOSRmTNvuD4q2iwOx79CmCQAAAKoEBU_QQmVQ&fp=1e686e6151f88d2a

[Ratsima]

Well, I went for quite some time without a flat. Went for a ride last night. When I got home the tire was hard as a rock. This morning, it's flat:

Once again, it's right at the valve stem. To me, this looks like a defect. The rubber flange which connects the valve stem assembly to the tube has simply delaminated.

As promised, here are photos of the valve stem hole in the rim. To the touch, it's smooth as glass:

[Spacer]

From your pictures and posts, it seems like your tube failures are due to poor fit. It is possible the tube is getting pinched by the tire when installing the tire. Use a little extra baby powder around the valve area when installing the tire. Also, partially inflate the tube before installing the tire then when both tire beads are on inflate a little more then knead the tire all the way around trying to feel the tube inside is not pinched or caught up inside the tire. It is also possible you are tightening the nut on the valve too much which would tend to stress the tube in the area that is failing. I tighten mine finger tight, then after a short ride tighten them again but only finger tight.

I use Slime threaded presta valve tubes on WTB SX24 rims with Kenda Excavator tires. No flats yet after 340 kilos of mostly trail riding. My first tubes didn't last one ride. Too many thorns around here.

[Ratsima]

You're right about over-tightening the valve nut. I use pliers...

[el jefe]

I'll go with "spacer".

The nut is only there to help you pump up the tire when it's totally flat. Many of my friends take the nut off after inflation. if you're using pliers to tighten it, how do you get it off during a ride, without carrying a pair of pliers???

[Ratsima]

I'll go with "spacer".

The nut is only there to help you pump up the tire when it's totally flat. Many of my friends take the nut off after inflation. if you're using pliers to tighten it, how do you get it off during a ride, without carrying a pair of pliers???

The nut tends to loosen up. So, I start out tightening with pliers (not real tight) and by the time I get my next flat it's removable with fingers.

I'll just completely loosen the thing. I thought it was there to keep the tube snug against the rim and to keep the valve stem from flexing when you fill with a hand pump.

[T_Dog]

Ratsima.... Good photos. I did a search on mtbr.com and I saw a few threads where valve area failures were caused by using too small of tube. What size tire are you using and what is the stated range on the tubes you are buying?

That delamination sure does look like a defect, but it could also be stress over the design limits. With the high pressures you like to run, that would increases stresses as well.

Regarding the nut, don't tighten it with pliers. It's okay if it loosens up as you can tighten it when you need to pump up the tire. Many riders don't use them at all.

In all my years of racing and riding mountain bikes, I never heard of anyone having this many flats. Pretty interesting topic, but I am sure you would rather not have the flats!

[Ratsima]

The tires are 26 X 1.90 and are rated at 35-65 psi. The tubes are 26 X1.90/2.125. I don't see any pressure rating on the tube.

Two days ago, after my previous photo post, I carefully installed a brand new inner tube. I was very careful about proper placement. I had tightened the nut, but loosened it before I got on the bike. I rode about 300 meters Friday evening when it started to rain, so I rode back. That's about 600 meters total. When I went to ride Saturday night the tire was flat. I've yet to remove it. I'm pretty bummed out about the whole mess.

I mean, I've been riding for years and years and have been installing inner tubes on a variety of bikes for a very long time. It's hard for me to believe that all of a sudden I have improperly installed a dozen inner tubes one right after the other. I'm not doing anything different from what I've been doing all my long (61 year) life.

It's uncanny.

[T_Dog]

Uncanny all right. The sizes you are using look correct. The only thing I can suggest at this point is to try Geax tubes. They seem to work the best for me and appear to be of much higher quality than any of the other brands available here.

From some of you older photos, you can see some "forming" of the tube rubber to the rim outline but just around the seat area. Don't know if that means anything but worth thinking about.

[Ratsima]

I will try to find some better tubes. Not real easy here in Korat since my bike guy closed up shop. Most of the places around here carry Camel or worse.

I'm pretty convinced now that most of my flats were due to defects in the tube.

Not sure about the "forming". You referring to this photo:

I'm baffled as to what that stuff is. But, that tube sat out in the weather for a while after I removed it, so it may not come from being on the bike.

[burgdawg]

Ratsima..

maybe stock up on high quality tubes when you visit falangland....???

Like some SLIME tubes (schraeder valve) for about 220b from Walmart.

Or Bike Bashbar.

Get a bunch and keep them in a zip lock bag to extend life....

[Ratsima]

Ratsima..

maybe stock up on high quality tubes when you visit falangland....???

Like some SLIME tubes (schraeder valve) for about 220b from Walmart.

Or Bike Bashbar.

Get a bunch and keep them in a zip lock bag to extend life....

I intend to do just that. Leaving next week Friday.

[burgdawg]

Ratisima...

were you able to get to USA to buy new tubes and tyres?

I am still riding my Continental mtn bike slicks south and east of Pattaya. Have over 1k km on them now, no tread to speak of.....

Continental Contact Sport tyres, 26 x 1.6 They have a 3M relfective bead in the sidewalls as I ride at night from Ptty to Rayong and back.

They are a very tight fit when they go on btw....

I like riding at night, cool...two front Planet Bike white beacons, two rear red blinkies.

Inside tyre I have installed a Kevlar bead liner along with talcum powder. Then I use SLIME tubes. I weigh 100+ kg and run my tyres at 110psi.

No flats, touch wood.

My average bicycle speed was a dismal 19kmph when I first arrived. Now my rides are coming in at 26kmph.

Jim

[Spacer]

Burgdawg, did you get slime tubes locally? if so then where. I brought two tubes from the states and I would like to find a local source.

[burgdawg]

Spacer and Crew...

29 December

.....brought over my SLIME tubes from USA, about $7 USD or 210 baht apiece.

26" with Schraeder valve stems, pre-filled with SLIME. WalMart has the best price, USA.

I air up my tyres to 100lbs, hand pump. You can suss out amazon.com. Amazon is getting more into International Shipping.

I also brought over a second set of Continental Sport Contact Slicks, 26" they have a reflective 3M bead in the sidewall if caught out at night.

www.biketiresdirect.com

I currently have 1700km on my Conti's and no flats...touch wood.

The important deal is thus: Kevlar tube liners. Think of the Thai vowel, or sara: ิ

I know that is a crude approximation but this is the cross-section SHAPE of the tube liner stuff that goes into the tyre PRIOR to the tube being installed.

And I certainly use copious amounts of talc between all layers and steps. Enough that any Thai lady would be proud of anyway.....

I still have to head back to USA for business, etc. Prior to departure, I make sure my bicycle tyres are aired up to 100lbs. I remove tyres from bike, wrap in large, separate plastic bags and lay flat atop my stored Honda Wave and cover all with tarp. When I returned 6 months later, my bicycle tyres still held a respectable 65lbs of air pressure, Very impressive.

I'll post some pics of my bike and gear soon.....

[PeteDannatt]

I feel for the OP. Getting punctures constantly can take the fun out of cycling. And this certainly looks like a mystery.

Over Songkraan I did my first off road trip for years cycling my MTB up the edge of the Korat Plateau from our house in the valley below. I hit some kind of thorn patch and turned my tubes into teabags (at least a dozen holes front and back). Looks like I will need much tougher rubber than the Bontrager Jones XR that I'm using right now.

Does anyone know where to get puncture resistant tires and tubes in Bangkok. Probike had nothing?

[fdimike]

Ratsima

I think it would be a good idea to swap the front and back WHEELS (not the tires). Alao make sure your spokes are all tightend down correctly. The valve hole may be a bit too large in the rear wheel allowing the tube to move around too much. If nothing else get yourself a good pair of calipers and measure the diameter of the valve hole in the rear wheel and compare it with the front. I would also compare the dimension with another brand of wheel to see if there is some manufacturing defect in the wheel. As a last resort I would buy a new set of wheels. I don't believe this is an inner tube problem.

I ride +++++ kms on Schwalbe tires and have never experienced so many flats. I also do not believe the fault is in the inner tube either. However, you can swap out your inner tube for a Schwalbe brand to see if that makes a difference.

[fdimike]

Pete

I ordered my Schwalbe Extreme tires from the US. I haven't seen anything much in the way of flat resistant tires here in Thailand.