Dhl/Customs At It Again

[TAWP]

Publish the name of the individual?

[CanInBKK]

Anyone who ships anything into Thailand using Fed-Ex, DHL or UPS -- other than non-dutiable documents -- is either asking for grief or just has too much money and wants to give some away...

The first rule of shipping into Thailand is, don't use those shippers for anything...

I'd have to say that whoever ships anywhere using those courier services as just asking to be taxed. UPS and Fedex are never hesitant to at least add some insane "handling fee" on the receiver's end in addition to whatever they thought was an appropriate duty.

[bonobo]

Anyone who ships anything into Thailand using Fed-Ex, DHL or UPS -- other than non-dutiable documents -- is either asking for grief or just has too much money and wants to give some away...

The first rule of shipping into Thailand is, don't use those shippers for anything...

I'd have to say that whoever ships anywhere using those courier services as just asking to be taxed. UPS and Fedex are never hesitant to at least add some insane "handling fee" on the receiver's end in addition to whatever they thought was an appropriate duty.

Not Thailand, but from when I have shipped out of Thailand and to the US or Europe, this reflects what I have experienced.

I recently had 8 euros worth of samples sent from Germany to a company in the Philippines. This went by a commercial shipping agent.  When the package arrived, there was almost $250 worth of duties, paperwork, clearances, etc added on to the bill.  So $150 is shipping and $250 is extra charges for 8 euros worth of samples.  And they took 5 days to clear customs after they arrived in-country. 

The samples were the wrong size, so I told the company to send me the correct size, and I told them to use DHL..  The package cost around $70 to ship, there was another $30 for handling and clearance, and they were delivered to the door 3 days after leaving Germany. 

I regularly use UPS to ship products from Thailand to the US, and DHL was certainly a better choice for the Germany to the Philippines shipment.

[Forethat]

Anyone who ships anything into Thailand using Fed-Ex, DHL or UPS -- other than non-dutiable documents -- is either asking for grief or just has too much money and wants to give some away...

The first rule of shipping into Thailand is, don't use those shippers for anything...

I have bought stuff abroad and shipped it to LOS with both FedEx, DHL and UPS I'd say at least 15 times the last couple of years. Golfclubs, electronics etc. I have NEVER had any problems with customs.

Can you explain that? Am I just plain lucky?

[jfchandler]

Maybe we're not talking about the same thing...

I'm talking about ordering something online from a U.S. site, and then the vendor shipping it to Thailand (and to me as the recipient) via one of the commercial overnight shipping companies.

The problem isn't with the packages being damaged or not arriving. The problem is with such packages (other than documents or things of very small value) usually getting hit with exhorbitant customs duties and handling fees--apart from the actual cost of shipping itself.

If you're the one sending from abroad, you're not on the receiving end in Thailand where all the ridiculous charges get tacked on.

Anyone who ships anything into Thailand using Fed-Ex, DHL or UPS -- other than non-dutiable documents -- is either asking for grief or just has too much money and wants to give some away...

The first rule of shipping into Thailand is, don't use those shippers for anything...

I have bought stuff abroad and shipped it to LOS with both FedEx, DHL and UPS I'd say at least 15 times the last couple of years. Golfclubs, electronics etc. I have NEVER had any problems with customs.

Can you explain that? Am I just plain lucky?

[Forethat]

Maybe we're not talking about the same thing...

I'm talking about ordering something online from a U.S. site, and then the vendor shipping it to Thailand (and to me as the recipient) via one of the commercial overnight shipping companies.

The problem isn't with the packages being damaged or not arriving. The problem is with such packages (other than documents or things of very small value) usually getting hit with exhorbitant customs duties and handling fees--apart from the actual cost of shipping itself.

If you're the one sending from abroad, you're not on the receiving end in Thailand where all the ridiculous charges get tacked on.

Anyone who ships anything into Thailand using Fed-Ex, DHL or UPS -- other than non-dutiable documents -- is either asking for grief or just has too much money and wants to give some away...

The first rule of shipping into Thailand is, don't use those shippers for anything...

I have bought stuff abroad and shipped it to LOS with both FedEx, DHL and UPS I'd say at least 15 times the last couple of years. Golfclubs, electronics etc. I have NEVER had any problems with customs.

Can you explain that? Am I just plain lucky?

I AM on the recieving end. I buy from various companies abroad and they ship to me using FedEx or similar. I have never been subject to something dodgy. I pay the regulated customs, tax VAT and similar. Nothing else.

What are you guys doing to be hit with this? I mean, I have done this for a couple of years and NEVER experienced anything like what you're all talking about.

[jfchandler]

It may depend on what kinds of things you're actually shipping...and if you're accurately completing the customs declarations...

For example, clothing items have a particularly high Thai official duty on them. I remember ordering something via a U.S. web site (because I'm tall and can't get the items here) that was shipped here by DHL...

I posted the details in another TV thread at the time. But basically, the shipping cost and the duties each were almost the price of the clothing items themselves. And actually, the customs duty, VAT and handling charges in total ended up costing more together than the total value of the 4 or 5 clothing items (shirts and pants) I had shipping. In other words, the total duty and tax (apart from the actual DHL shipping fee) was more than 100% of the value of the my goods.

Why don't you give some specifics of the kinds of things you've been shipping, and how the duties/customs/VAT charges have compared to the value of your items shipped.

[Forethat]

It may depend on what kinds of things you're actually shipping...and if you're accurately completing the customs declarations...

For example, clothing items have a particularly high Thai official duty on them. I remember ordering something via a U.S. web site (because I'm tall and can't get the items here) that was shipped here by DHL...

I posted the details in another TV thread at the time. But basically, the shipping cost and the duties each were almost the price of the clothing items themselves. And actually, the customs duty, VAT and handling charges in total ended up costing more together than the total value of the 4 or 5 clothing items (shirts and pants) I had shipping. In other words, the total duty and tax (apart from the actual DHL shipping fee) was more than 100% of the value of the my goods.

Why don't you give some specifics of the kinds of things you've been shipping, and how the duties/customs/VAT charges have compared to the value of your items shipped.

I pay according to what is stipulated in Thai law. What else do you need to know?

http://www.thaivisa.com/thailand_vat.0.html

I have already told you what I have imported. Golf clubs, electronic equipment. I have also imported jewelry and clothes.

I really don’t see the problem here, are you guys doing something dodgy and get pissed off when you can’t get away with it! (Like having the sender incorrectly label the item as a gift or something that’s broken?)?

[jfchandler]

I'd hardly say reporting clothing items accurately and at real value, and then being charged 100%+ customs/duty/VAT is doing something "dodgy"... The only thing "dodgy" is Thai customs and their cohorts at the shipping houses...

But I don't believe you've said just what kinds of percentages of duty you've paid... Maybe you're happy paying 100%+.

[Forethat]

I did ship one of my Breitlings to Geneva for a repair. I did NOT pay a single satang in tax, weird fee, customs or VAT even though the value was clearly stated on the FedEx shipment.

[CanInBKK]

I AM on the recieving end. I buy from various companies abroad and they ship to me using FedEx or similar. I have never been subject to something dodgy. I pay the regulated customs, tax VAT and similar. Nothing else.

What are you guys doing to be hit with this? I mean, I have done this for a couple of years and NEVER experienced anything like what you're all talking about.

Yeah, this is what I meant as well. I ordered Tungsten rings into Thailand and was hit with taxes/fess equal to more than half the declared value (which was exactly equal to to the cost). Same thing always happens to me in Canada when not using the federal postal system.

(As an aside, I thought the purpose of duties was to protect the internal market of the item being taxed. There are no Tungsten rings made or sold in Thailand - and there is no partial or complete substitute - thus in theory shouldn't the import of these rings be non-dutiable?)

[MZurf]

I did ship one of my Breitlings to Geneva for a repair. I did NOT pay a single satang in tax, weird fee, customs or VAT even though the value was clearly stated on the FedEx shipment.

A Thai customs agent can smell a fake watch from a mile away....

[Forethat]

So first of all, for all of you who blaims Thai customs for this: your item is first cleared by the shipping company; that'd be DHL, FedEx or whatever, they will then charge you that amount PLUS their handling fee. If you think there is something wrong you can just file a complaint with that company. MAke sure you make the intial payment using your VISA or Amex and you're in a perfect position to walk away with no damage.

How does the Thai customs become a foul player in this..?

Edited July 6, 2010 by Forethat

[jfchandler]

You're a real pip today...and unfortunately, far off from the truth...

I never called you or anyone else a liar... And I certainly didn't ask for advice from you...

And, you're talking about shipping TO Geneva, which is totally unrelated to shipping something TO Thailand... You pay as the recipient of INBOUND good...not on the sending of outbound goods.

I did ship one of my Breitlings to Geneva for a repair. I did NOT pay a single satang in tax, weird fee, customs or VAT even though the value was clearly stated on the FedEx shipment.

And you still have never said what kind of percentages of duty/tax you've paid on items incoming to Thailand....

Edited July 6, 2010 by bonobo
deleted quote of post since deleted.

[Forethat]

You're a real pip today...and unfortunately, far off from the truth...

I never called you or anyone else a liar... And I certainly didn't ask for advice from you...

And, you're talking about shipping TO Geneva, which is totally unrelated to shipping something TO Thailand... You pay as the recipient of INBOUND good...not on the sending of outbound goods.

I did ship one of my Breitlings to Geneva for a repair. I did NOT pay a single satang in tax, weird fee, customs or VAT even though the value was clearly stated on the FedEx shipment.

And you still have never said what kind of percentages of duty/tax you've paid on items incoming to Thailand....

I'd hardly say reporting clothing items accurately and at real value, and then being charged 100%+ customs/duty/VAT is doing something "dodgy"... The only thing "dodgy" is Thai customs and their cohorts at the shipping houses...

But I don't believe you've said just what kinds of percentages of duty you've paid... Maybe you're happy paying 100%+.

Calling someone a liar is hardly the best way of asking for advice. To put it frank, I'd be happy to see you get banned for a while. You deserve it.

I got the piece back from Breitling...

I pay according to Thai law. This just doesn't sink in, does it?

If you have doubts regarding Thai taxes I suggest you start here:

http://www.thailandt...CFUVB6wodIldswg

Here's another good one:

http://www.asiatradi....com/taxvat.htm

Or why not:

http://www.ethailand...dex.php?id=1800

The Thai sorce..:

http://www.rd.go.th/publish/index.html

Specifically on VAT:

http://www.rd.go.th/...ish/6043.0.html

More on customs:

http://www.customsclinic.org/

Edited July 6, 2010 by Forethat

[JohnLeech]

Import taxes and VAT are usually charged on the full value of the item including the shipping costs, which is why they are often considered unusually high, so the 7,500 baht mentioned does not sound excessive.

[jfchandler]

I pay according to Thai law. This just doesn't sink in, does it?

That's a particularly silly comment. As anyone who's dealt in this subject is all too aware. the Thai customs code leaves a lot open to interpretation, and allows the officers to decide in what category they want to classify your items....which can greatly impact the rate of duty to be assessed. Accounts of that are widespread here on TV....

Too much trouble to give even one specific example with real numbers and percentages, huh?

[Forethat]

I pay according to Thai law. This just doesn't sink in, does it?

That's a particularly silly comment. As anyone who's dealt in this subject is all too aware. the Thai customs code leaves a lot open to interpretation, and allows the officers to decide in what category they want to classify your items....which can greatly impact the rate of duty to be assessed. Accounts of that are widespread here on TV....

Too much trouble to give even one specific example with real numbers and percentages, huh?

You start whining and moaning about high taxes + corruption which I claim I have seen nothing of, and all of a sudden you want me to provide details of my business on an internet forum.

Mr, whatever your problem is, it will never get solved here, trust me on that one. Read my previous posts regarding processing of claims and taxation, I then suggest you make the appropriate adjustments to your business in order to comply with Thai law and regulations. In case there's a problem I suggest you raise it with your speditor.

Good Luck, Buddha knows you'll need it....

[Forethat]

Import taxes and VAT are usually charged on the full value of the item including the shipping costs, which is why they are often considered unusually high, so the 7,500 baht mentioned does not sound excessive.

The same rules applies in more or less every country in the world.

[Livinginexile]

I pay according to Thai law. This just doesn't sink in, does it?

That's a particularly silly comment. As anyone who's dealt in this subject is all too aware. the Thai customs code leaves a lot open to interpretation, and allows the officers to decide in what category they want to classify your items....which can greatly impact the rate of duty to be assessed. Accounts of that are widespread here on TV....

Too much trouble to give even one specific example with real numbers and percentages, huh?

You start whining and moaning about high taxes + corruption which I claim I have seen nothing of, and all of a sudden you want me to provide details of my business on an internet forum.

Mr, whatever your problem is, it will never get solved here, trust me on that one. Read my previous posts regarding processing of claims and taxation, I then suggest you make the appropriate adjustments to your business in order to comply with Thai law and regulations. In case there's a problem I suggest you raise it with your speditor.

Good Luck, Buddha knows you'll need it....

Even the Thai PM has recently aknowledged that Thai customs is the biggest corruption problem in Thailand.

[jfchandler]

Yes....but not for Mr. Forethat.... He lives in his own little special world...where the Thai customs staff make sure each of his packages is delivered with a calligraphy note and scented rose... and of course.... they waive all the duty and taxes...just because he's such a special friend of theirs.

[Forethat]

Yes....but not for Mr. Forethat.... He lives in his own little special world...where the Thai customs staff make sure each of his packages is delivered with a calligraphy note and scented rose... and of course.... they waive all the duty and taxes...just because he's such a special friend of theirs.

Everything I have purchased has been cleared through customs by the speditor. The cost is then charged to my VISA or AMEX card. I have never been hit by taxes exceeding 20%, I have never been told to pay any money to private bank account.

I guess I'm just lucky. And you're unlucky. A lot of bad things appears to happen to you. I feel sorry for you, I honestly do. I hope things turn out good after all.

[jfchandler]

I've never been asked to pay into a private account. Once again, mistakely, you're mixing up my comments with those of the OP in this thread...

And frankly, nothing bad's happened to me...except for having to put up with your questionable comments, and previously having been overcharged by Thai customs a couple of times until I learned to stop sending items here via FedEx, DHL or UPS...

Once I got that lesson in hand, life progressed swimmingly... Thank you very much.

[Forethat]

I've never been asked to pay into a private account. Once again, mistakely, you're mixing up my comments with those of the OP in this thread...

And frankly, nothing bad's happened to me...except for having to put up with your questionable comments, and previously having been overcharged by Thai customs a couple of times until I learned to stop sending items here via FedEx, DHL or UPS...

Once I got that lesson in hand, life progressed swimmingly... Thank you very much.

Didn't you write:

Anyone who ships anything into Thailand using Fed-Ex, DHL or UPS -- other than non-dutiable documents -- is either asking for grief or just has too much money and wants to give some away...

The first rule of shipping into Thailand is, don't use those shippers for anything

Well, I'm sorry, but I simply dont have any of the problems you're having. I guess you're just unlucky...

On a similar topic, if corruption is so bad in Thailand, why dont you go back to wherever you came from, that way there will be no more grief? Huh?

[jfchandler]

UPS's corporate color isn't the only brown thing around here...

[phutoie2]

Ditto. W Mitty does seem to live in his own world, if he can afford to ship Breitlings around the world he probably do s'nt give a tosh about fee's, or even notices.

What shows him/her up is the usual "If you do'nt like it here go home comment"

Often the last refuge of a sham.

[bonobo]

Let's leave any more personal sparring out of this.  If we can't stick to the topic in a civilized manner, the thread has run its course and will be closed.

[Hawk]

Simple lesson, do not send things by DHL, Fed Ex, etc, send item in an ordinary postpack envelope with declared value nil, gift or secondhand book.

Never opened.

[p_brownstone]

The thing to bear in mind is that if you ship anything via Courier - whichever Company you use - you will be charged Thai Import Duty and VAT every time - and it may not be the correct Rate of Import Duty because the Courier Company has absolutely no interest in making extra work for themselves by disputing the Rate - or even ensuring that the correct Rate is applied - whatever the Thai Customs Department decides to charge is simply passed on to their Client so they accept every valuation.

If you Import via ordinary Mail etc., there is a good chance that the item will be delivered to your door by the ordinary Postman, with no extra charges.

That is not always true however, I have had parcels held at my local Post Office and received a Bill from the Thai Post Office for Duty etc., I had to go and pay the Charges at the Post Office and then collect the parcel.

To do things properly you should appoint a Freight Forwarder / Customs Clearing Agent here in Thailand and ask them for their corresponding Agent in the Country from which the item is being shipped. The Agent will collect the item from the Seller and ship it to Thailand with full documentation - Air Waybill, Commercial Invoice etc., and your Freight Forwarder here will arrange Customs Clearing on your behalf; you will receive and "Import Entry" Document from them detailing the Tariff Code - which determines the % of Duty, and it also shows the amount of VAT payable. If you want to dispute the Tariff Code or Rate of Duty you can do so via your Agent.

Patrick

Edited July 7, 2010 by p_brownstone

[jfchandler]

Both of the two prior posts contain excellent, and accurate, advice...

That anyone living in Thailand who wants to order products from abroad should avoid using DHL, Fed-Ex and UPS should be printed as a key lesson in the farang newbie's guidebook for living in Thailand. It's one of those things you don't learn until you actually live here and discover how arbitrary and ridiculous the customs/duty process can be.

In my experience, even fully and accurately completing the customs declaration information, I've rarely had any duty assessed when the items are sent by U.S.P.S and then delivered here by regular Thai Post.

PB, i understand your advice about shipping agents... But I'm wondering, not knowing the charges/pricing for that kind of service, whether pursuing that would really make any economic sense for the typical casual, and only occasional, expat shipper.

If I was bringing things in regularly for a business or something, then I could understand that... But for someone who just occasionally orders stuff for home use, and goes the U.S.P.S-Thai Post route, I'm wondering whether a shipping agent would be irrelevant and have no role to play.