Community Protest Against Drilling In The Gulf Of Siam

[crusty]

Why can't we have alternative energy like every country else?

Because as this thread obviously shows people do not want it.

Obviously. It's clear, do you want me to do the math for you too?

According to the clear intent of the posters on this thread, WE DON'T WANT ALTERNATIVE ENERGY!"

Or is the conclusion obviously crapola?

I want a cure for Alzheimer's too, but for now, we are dependent on petroleum-based products for the foreseeable future. Living with that reality does not preclude that we long for a better, cleaner energy future, however.

If oil and gas exploration in the areas around Samui/KP/KT really was posing a risk, I would be out there in the front lines. However, it just so happens that I know an intimate thing or two about the oil business and this whole charade is just a Jerry Springfield sort of "important issue," that is in fact pretty much irrelevant.

If you want to call for increased safety, by all means do...but to pillory the industry in the archipelago against a wall of lies and misinformation is absurd. Treat it as such.

By the way, I'd think this thread dead, but for the fact that there are at least two huge billboard-sized posters hanging in plain tourist view (one at Chaweng Lake) saying to stop oil drilling. The hand-holding thing that these banners advertise flopped and was over long ago. Take the rubbish down. Just another source of the very pollution they want to prevent. What a bloody eyesore!

Hypocrites.

Hear Hear ! You would have had to experience being without electricity to realise what a luxury it is . I bet none of the Green Loonies here recall the days when you only had an icebox to presrve your fresh foods and then do a daily run to Nathon to pick up your ice blocks from the ice factory which was just before the present Seatrans parking lot. And then only candles, no fans, no t.v., no movies......

[Rooo]

. But lets not get carried away from the topic, it will get Rooo onto us, and judging by the speed he locked my humble publication of the exact locations for the proposed oil rigs, he is a very good and efficient moderator.

If you are referring to THIS , you had your explanation. What are you insinuating with this statement?

If you wish to discuss moderating actions, please do so via PM or contact [email protected].

[LeoLeoKhm]

Truly Beautiful???????? By whose standards? I never before credited the Danes with such a well developed sense of humour!

Why thank you, Gatorade, from me personally and from all Danes. It is a pity you haven't seen our beautiful wind farms, I can PM you links to enjoy. They say, looking at beauty develops everything, incl. sense of humour , it will help you. But I would rather keep a discussion esthetic merits of wind turbines out of this thread, as it is clearly off topic.

Again, thanks for the maths

[LeoLeoKhm]

Why can't we have alternative energy like every country else?

Because as this thread obviously shows people do not want it.

Obviously. It's clear, do you want me to do the math for you too?

According to the clear intent of the posters on this thread, WE DON'T WANT ALTERNATIVE ENERGY!"

Or is the conclusion obviously crapola?

I want a cure for Alzheimer's too, but for now, we are dependent on petroleum-based products for the foreseeable future. Living with that reality does not preclude that we long for a better, cleaner energy future, however.

If oil and gas exploration in the areas around Samui/KP/KT really was posing a risk, I would be out there in the front lines. However, it just so happens that I know an intimate thing or two about the oil business and this whole charade is just a Jerry Springfield sort of "important issue," that is in fact pretty much irrelevant.

If you want to call for increased safety, by all means do...but to pillory the industry in the archipelago against a wall of lies and misinformation is absurd. Treat it as such.

By the way, I'd think this thread dead, but for the fact that there are at least two huge billboard-sized posters hanging in plain tourist view (one at Chaweng Lake) saying to stop oil drilling. The hand-holding thing that these banners advertise flopped and was over long ago. Take the rubbish down. Just another source of the very pollution they want to prevent. What a bloody eyesore!

Hypocrites.

It is not true that the campaign stopped. It continues on other other islands. On the 28/29th there will be a similar action at Koh Phangan. By the pier. You are welcome to join 'the front lines'

[Tracer Round]

It is not true that the campaign stopped. It continues on other other islands. On the 28/29th there will be a similar action at Koh Phangan. By the pier. You are welcome to join 'the front lines'

Look, all rhetoric aside, I have not seen anything to substantiate the proposition that future oil and/or gas drilling poses a risk beyond what has been acceptable for years (without incident). At least not in this thread or in the local newspapers.

If anyone has real grounds to bring to bear on this issue, I'd be very interested in seeing them.

In a recent issue of the Samui Gazette, the only thing even addressing this is a comment by a "protester" who has lived on Samui for two years (those are his qualifications, I suppose): "The oil drilling project might cause a leak in the Gulf of Thailand."

Apparently, the president of the local "Stop Global Warming Association" has said that, "If the government doesn't annul the concessions, we'll sue."

There is a good section on Wiki on frivolous lawsuits, two excellent quotes are:

"We are sensitive to the need for the courts to remain open to all who seek in good faith to invoke the protection of law. An appeal that lacks merit is not always--or often--frivolous. However, we are not obliged to suffer in silence the filing of baseless, insupportable appeals presenting no colorable claims of error and designed only to delay, obstruct, or incapacitate the operations of the courts or any other governmental authority. Crain's (the plaintiff) present appeal is of this sort. It is a hodgepodge of unsupported assertions, irrelevant platitudes, and legalistic gibberish. The government should not have been put to the trouble of responding to such spurious arguments, nor this court to the trouble of "adjudicating" this merit-less appeal."

-- Crain v. Commissioner, (1984), from the US Court of Appeals for the Fifth Circuit.

[W]hen a judge calls an argument "ridiculous" or "frivolous," it is absolutely the worst thing the judge could say. It means that the person arguing the position has absolutely no idea of what he is doing, and has completely wasted everyone's time. It doesn't mean that the case wasn't well argued, or that judge simply decided for the other side, it means that there was no other side. The argument was absolutely, positively, incompetent. The judge is not telling you that you were "wrong." The judge is telling you that you are out of your mind.

-- Attorney Daniel Evans

The Gazette article says, "They claim (the mayor , the Association and the Rak Aao Thai Network) that the negative emvironmental impact of the oil drilling will affect the island's tourism industry." The only claim in the paper is that the oil companies have not completed public hearings. I don't know if that's true or not, but it's hardly grounds for legal action of any sort.

[LeoLeoKhm]

I woud not risk posting citations of similar length that state the opposite, there are plenty on pretty much any environmental web site. However, here is a link to a study that describes current state of marine environment Gulf of Thailand. I do not believe you will read it, but I post it for others, who only view this thread and do not say anything (over 4,000 views). Please read this http://www.aseanenvironment.info/Abstract/43003535.pdf and understand how close the Gulf of Thailand is to a major break, and how fragile its environment is already Why add yet another risk factor? So that CEO Coastal Energy, a tax heaven registered company, could make money?

Edited August 25, 2010 by sbk
formatting removed

[carmine]

I don't particularily like the idea of rigs in the gulf as i've stated already but the fact is they are they are here already, the ain't going away and thats it. This has been rubber stamped long ago at the highest echelons of government. Its done and dusted.

Besides, this island has enough other pressing issues to deal with to get the island busy with tourists again.

[screamingeagle]

I wish all these crackpots threatening to sue the governemnt would try suing Bangkok Air for the drastic reduction of tourist numbers on Samui. That company is doing much more to destroy the tourist industry here than any oill rigs will do!

Edited August 25, 2010 by screamingeagle

[carmine]

I wish all these crackpots threatening to sue the governemnt would try suing Bangkok Air for the drastic reduction of tourist numbers on Samui. That company is doing much more to destroy the tourist industry here than any oill rigs will do!

Mr Eagle hits the nail on the head.

[Tracer Round]

. Please read this http://www.aseanenvi...ct/43003535.pdf and understand how close the Gulf of Thailand is to a major break...

Water pollution and habitat degradation the Gulf of Thailand.

Abstract: ...(4) Petroleum hydrocarbon residue contamination is not a problem, although a few spills from small oil tankers have been recorded.

And in Section 5. Petroleum hydrocarbon, we find, "...it can be concluded that petroleum hydrocarbon contamination level in the marine environment of the Gulf of Thailand is still below those standard values (which considers seawater to be polluted)."

I don't know what you are refering to, but thanks for the support of my position.

Let's review, shall we? Petroleum hydrocarbon residue contamination is not a problem; petroleum hydrocarbon contamination level in the marine environment of the Gulf of Thailand is still below those standard values.

Where on earth do you get the notion that the Gulf of Thailand is close to a "major break"?

And, if there is any traction at all in this for you, it's about "a few spills from small oil tankers," not drilling operations.

More than 5,000 wells have been drilled in the Gulf of Thailand over nearly 40 years past and no accident affecting the environment has ever occurred, Mineral Fuels Department Director-General Kurujit Nakhonthap said confidently.

SEE: Oil exploration in Gulf of Thailand doesn't affect environment

[limbos]

Isn't that what they said in the the other Gulf as well? BP has a lot to answer to or is it that also a rumour?

[H2oDunc]

Limbos have you read the papers lately ? It seems that far from being the total annihilation of the gulf and surrounding seas 90% of the oil spilt has already gone ? They were all predicting an apocalypse for weeks yet it seems the eco scientists have once again got it a little wrong. I am all for keeping the Gulf clean and free from pollution but this eco / quasi religious dogma is nothing but horss^%t.

As for wind turbines check some of these links out.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1029143/Wind-turbines-unreliable-cost-home-4-000-claims-think-tank.html

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-498311/Cameron-style-wind-turbines-INCREASE-CO2-claim-researchers.html

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-561163/The-shocking-picture-shows-wind-farm-disfigured-Britains-loveliest-landscapes.html

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-1199535/CHRISTOPHER-BOOKER-Wind-farms-monument-age-leaders-collectively-went-heads.html

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-512339/Wind-farms-Blowing-money-fantasy.html

These are just from the one UK news paper. There are hundreds more. The sad thing is people really do believe in this crap and for them you will never change their minds.

People will look back on this period of time and wonder just how so many people could be so stupid

We are witness to the biggest financial con the world has ever seen

[LeoLeoKhm]

I don't particularily like the idea of rigs in the gulf as i've stated already but the fact is they are they are here already, the ain't going away and thats it. This has been rubber stamped long ago at the highest echelons of government. Its done and dusted.

Oh, it is (almost) always possible to do something including removing the dust

[LeoLeoKhm]

Limbos have you read the papers lately ? It seems that far from being the total annihilation of the gulf and surrounding seas 90% of the oil spilt has already gone ? They were all predicting an apocalypse for weeks yet it seems the eco scientists have once again got it a little wrong. I am all for keeping the Gulf clean and free from pollution but this eco / quasi religious dogma is nothing but horss^%t.

As for wind turbines check some of these links out.

http://www.dailymail...think-tank.html

http://www.dailymail...esearchers.html

http://www.dailymail...landscapes.html

http://www.dailymail...went-heads.html

http://www.dailymail...ey-fantasy.html

These are just from the one UK news paper. There are hundreds more. The sad thing is people really do believe in this crap and for them you will never change their minds.

People will look back on this period of time and wonder just how so many people could be so stupid

We are witness to the biggest financial con the world has ever seen

Daily Mail as source of sound environmental information? Or in fact any serious info at all? Look, I am well aware that the UK is not in any way an advanced country for environmental technologies.. central water heating is a novelty in most of the UK yet, but guys there are other countries. As well as other newspapers in the UK that provide serious, balanced info, as the UK media landscape, in contrast to its infrastructure, is quite well developed. Say, The Guardian, the BBC... many. Look there, not tabloids

[LeoLeoKhm]

...Bangkok Air for the drastic reduction of tourist numbers on Samui. That company is doing much more to destroy the tourist industry here than any oill rigs will do!

Agree 100%

[powderpuff]

It is not true that the campaign stopped. It continues on other other islands. On the 28/29th there will be a similar action at Koh Phangan. By the pier. You are welcome to join 'the front lines'

Please make a list of the names & addresses of all the protestors.

That way we can cut off their electricity first.

NIMBY isn't realistic.

[LeoLeoKhm]

. Please read this http://www.aseanenvi...ct/43003535.pdf and understand how close the Gulf of Thailand is to a major break...

Water pollution and habitat degradation the Gulf of Thailand.

Abstract: ...(4) Petroleum hydrocarbon residue contamination is not a problem, although a few spills from small oil tankers have been recorded.

And in Section 5. Petroleum hydrocarbon, we find, "...it can be concluded that petroleum hydrocarbon contamination level in the marine environment of the Gulf of Thailand is still below those standard values (which considers seawater to be polluted)."

I don't know what you are refering to, but thanks for the support of my position.

Let's review, shall we? Petroleum hydrocarbon residue contamination is not a problem; petroleum hydrocarbon contamination level in the marine environment of the Gulf of Thailand is still below those standard values.

Where on earth do you get the notion that the Gulf of Thailand is close to a "major break"?

And, if there is any traction at all in this for you, it's about "a few spills from small oil tankers," not drilling operations.

More than 5,000 wells have been drilled in the Gulf of Thailand over nearly 40 years past and no accident affecting the environment has ever occurred, Mineral Fuels Department Director-General Kurujit Nakhonthap said confidently.

SEE: Oil exploration in Gulf of Thailand doesn't affect environment

I am sure Director-General knows well the basics of enviornmental risk analysis. The fact that there has been no accident in the last 40 years only adds up to the probability of one occuring in the future, not the other way around. Hence, you cannot justify 'nothing will happen' by saying 'because it has not happened before'. On the contrary, simply of probability, it only increases the risk.

As for the report mentioned, please read the main conclusion:

It can be concluded that rapid population growth and industrialization have brought about resource degradation and a decline in environmental quality.

with conclusions in each section of the report.

To anyone who read reports on environmental assessment, this one describes an environment that is not yet in a degraded state, but man-made burdens, such as overfishing, using it as a sewage for untreated industrial and municipal waters, pesticide leakage from agricultural lands, oil spills from tankers etc bring this environment to the point when it cannot regenerate itself. Ie a breakup of its regenerating capacity. Yet, we here put more burdens in the form of oil rigs. Why?

[LeoLeoKhm]

It is not true that the campaign stopped. It continues on other other islands. On the 28/29th there will be a similar action at Koh Phangan. By the pier. You are welcome to join 'the front lines'

Please make a list of the names & addresses of all the protestors.

That way we can cut off their electricity first.

NIMBY isn't realistic.

oh you are so funny.

[H2oDunc]

The guardian and the BBC are bought and paid for climate change luvvies. They have both signed up to the religion of AGW. The biggest con job the world has ever seen. No science involved at all just big money, pressure, propaganda and screams of Heresy to anybody daring to challenge them from the AGW disciples. Al Gore and his banking mates are taking the world for the suckers you show yourselves to be.

[Gatorade]

The guardian and the BBC are bought and paid for climate change luvvies. They have both signed up to the religion of AGW. The biggest con job the world has ever seen. No science involved at all just big money, pressure, propaganda and screams of Heresy to anybody daring to challenge them from the AGW disciples. Al Gore and his banking mates are taking the world for the suckers you show yourselves to be.

Bit irascible today Dunc?

Luvvies/con/heresay/suckers all in one paragraph!!!

You seem to think that there should not be any points of view contradictory to yours.

Perhaps you need to get out more.

Gator & the Soi dogs.

[Tracer Round]

LeoLeoKhm

As for the report mentioned, please read the main conclusion:

It can be concluded that rapid population growth and industrialization have brought about resource degradation and a decline in environmental quality.

with conclusions in each section of the report.

Yes, and oil and gas exploration was scrutinized and found NOT to be a contributor. Let me say it again. According to the study you sited:

Petroleum hydrocarbon residue contamination is not a problem; petroleum hydrocarbon contamination level in the marine environment of the Gulf of Thailand is still below those standard values.

The fact that there has been no accident in the last 40 years only adds up to the probability of one occuring in the future, not the other way around.

Ah, we have a statistics guy in the peanut gallery...Yes, I forgot that....sort of like:

"The fact that I have not hit a jackpot in slots in Las Vegas in the last 40 years only adds up to the probability of me hitting one in the future, not the other way around."

Just keep drilling and eventually there will be a spill, even if the odds are a million to one. Of course if that is the case, then we might not have a spill for another 8,000 years, if my math is right.

Or

Since the last large collision by a meteor with earth (a biggie with a five kilometer diameter) happened about 65 million years ago, and that this event has been estimated to occur approximately once every 10 million years, we are way overdue for a game-ending hit. Oh, right, that's what 2012 is all about....

Any more statistical analysis we can play with?

[LeoLeoKhm]

LeoLeoKhm

As for the report mentioned, please read the main conclusion:

It can be concluded that rapid population growth and industrialization have brought about resource degradation and a decline in environmental quality.

with conclusions in each section of the report.

Yes, and oil and gas exploration was scrutinized and found NOT to be a contributor. Let me say it again. According to the study you sited:

Petroleum hydrocarbon residue contamination is not a problem; petroleum hydrocarbon contamination level in the marine environment of the Gulf of Thailand is still below those standard values.

The fact that there has been no accident in the last 40 years only adds up to the probability of one occuring in the future, not the other way around.

Ah, we have a statistics guy in the peanut gallery...Yes, I forgot that....sort of like:

"The fact that I have not hit a jackpot in slots in Las Vegas in the last 40 years only adds up to the probability of me hitting one in the future, not the other way around."

Just keep drilling and eventually there will be a spill, even if the odds are a million to one. Of course if that is the case, then we might not have a spill for another 8,000 years, if my math is right.

Or

Since the last large collision by a meteor with earth (a biggie with a five kilometer diameter) happened about 65 million years ago, and that this event has been estimated to occur approximately once every 10 million years, we are way overdue for a game-ending hit. Oh, right, that's what 2012 is all about....

Any more statistical analysis we can play with?

google 'environmental risk analysis', and get off me with all this meteor and 2012 stuff. I have never been a hippy, and never will be

[PoorSucker]

Any more statistical analysis we can play with?

If you roll a dice 999 times and always get no.6.

What is the change that it's going to be no.6 again?

[limbos]

Any more statistical analysis we can play with?

If you roll a dice 999 times and always get no.6.

What is the change that it's going to be no.6 again?

Or ask Paul the octopus

[Tracer Round]

Any more statistical analysis we can play with?

If you roll a dice 999 times and always get no.6.

What is the change that it's going to be no.6 again?

Sure, there are entire university courses on probability and they all consist of the outcomes of coin flips and dice rolling. They even have equations and stuff....

Here's another one for you:

Some accelerators stick in Toyota vehicles, causing accidents. If I buy a Toyota vehicle (or keep buying Toyota vehicles during my life), at some point in the future, its accelerator will stick and cause an accident.

OR

Oil refinery explosions do occur; therefore, the probability of one of the seven refineries in Thailand exploding grows larger every day. (Ominous, eh?)

Are we there yet?

OH...and the chances that the dice that came up six 999 times in a row will come up six the next roll is one in six.

[carmine]

Everyone knows that the rigs are here to stay. The rationally minded of us just want to see that they are managed properly to avoid an environmental disaster.

These protests IMHO are being organised way too late and are a waste of time.

I also think there are a lot of very greedy people here that are just pissed off they arn't getting a slice of the profits.

[LeoLeoKhm]

Everyone knows that the rigs are here to stay. The rationally minded of us just want to see that they are managed properly to avoid an environmental disaster.

These protests IMHO are being organised way too late and are a waste of time.

I also think there are a lot of very greedy people here that are just pissed off they arn't getting a slice of the profits.

the protesters campaign is not about already existing rigs, but about plans to erect new ones, one of them being as close as 42 km off Lamai beach.

The protests were organised after the first public hearing when the tax-shelters-registered oil companies failed to produce satisfactory evirdence of plans to avoid environmental disaster.

They are not waste of time since the decision is not in force yet.

As for the greedy people, I would like to inform you, Carmine, that during the protest here at Koh Phangan, a list of set around for collect signatures FOR oil rigs. Those who signed got 300 baht each - a rather usual thing here in Thailand in elections etc.

Edited September 2, 2010 by LeoLeoKhm

[carmine]

Everyone knows that the rigs are here to stay. The rationally minded of us just want to see that they are managed properly to avoid an environmental disaster.

These protests IMHO are being organised way too late and are a waste of time.

I also think there are a lot of very greedy people here that are just pissed off they arn't getting a slice of the profits.

the protesters campaign is not about already existing rigs, but about plans to erect new ones, one of them being as close as 42 km off Lamai beach.

The protests were organised after the first public hearing when the tax-shelters-registered oil companies failed to produce satisfactory evirdence of plans to avoid environmental disaster.

They are not waste of time since the decision is not in force yet.

As for the greedy people, I would like to inform you, Carmine, that during the protest here at Koh Phangan, a list of set around for collect signatures FOR oil rigs. Those who signed got 300 baht each - a rather usual thing here in Thailand in elections etc.

Its a done deal mate and for all the good will in the world you will not change things. If your protests go anyway towards improving and maintaining the safety of the rigs, existing and new you will have done a worthy job.

[limbos]

Another explosion on Gulf of Mexico rig

Now let's all go to sleep and not worry, something like this is according to the specialists on this forum not possible or likely to happen in our Gulf. What a relief.

[LeoLeoKhm]

Another explosion on Gulf of Mexico rig

Now let's all go to sleep and not worry, something like this is according to the specialists on this forum not possible or likely to happen in our Gulf. What a relief.

sure