Missing Money

[regal]

My Thai boyfriend of 1.5 years "borrowed" the money I gave to him to up keep our house up and going while I went "home" to work and travel. Its all gone ...Where I dont know, he says to his family but I think it was spent on partites.

Now that I am back again, we've worked it out so far, we are working together to make money so we can both afford to travel somewhere cool next spring. what I realized is i cant change the past and i need to move on and forget about the money he "borrowed". i also realized that being apart is hard on any relationship anywhere so accept that , and if its worth staying together figure away for me not to leave him for months on end.

But deep down, It still really bothers me. I know back home in the west a man whom says he loves me, would not TAKE any money without my permission. and beacuse I love him I would share with him IF HE ASKED ME FIRST!

Is this a common problem here?

[elfe]

dear regal,

I've heard of similar stories like that, so it seems a bit common in a way. I would say it depends on how long you've been together before you left, how sure your b/f was that you would really come back, how much contact you had while you were away, etc.

If you left him a big amount of money in cash, that might have been too tempting for him to spend it for other things than for the intended reason, like showing off to friends with it and paying drinks, food etc. for them. The family can be a big pressure for Thais and once they know he has a lot of money in hands they will not rest until they got their share. Don't want to generalize here but it happens often.

I had a friend whose b/f spent all the money she left with him for paying bills etc. while she was gone for 3 months and when she came back she found that he not only did not pay the bills but also brought everything possible like tv etc. to a pawn shop,even though he was working. He even had a new farang girlfriend while she was gone (the thai neighbours told her the moment she returned....

Was your boyfriend still able to keep up the house? Or did you have to pay again on your return? If so you should make very clear to him that he has to take responsibility and that you are not a never ending flow of money, to avoid future disasters. Of course it is better not to be apart for months, but sometimes it is necessary, I hope you can manage without it. With regards to what happened, it would be better to keep your money with yourself and if you have to go away again for longer just try to pay in advance or send him smaller amounts of money over.

show him that it really bothers you what he did and that you will not just forget about it.

If he 'borrowed', why not pay back as well? maybe you could make some arrangement that he has to pay more for your payments in the future and pay back in small amounts if possible, show him he cannot get away that easily with it!

my boyfriend takes really care of the house, dogs etc. when I'm gone and he is very concerned that everything goes well until I return, so it should be and gives me peace of mind.

good luck!

[DaveYo]

Girls, why are you giving your boyfriends all this dough. Yes I understand you have to get your bills paid and etc.

May I suggest something to you. Be awful careful of your money. It is very hard to get and to save and to earn once in Thailand. So if you have to leave say for three months at a time or something like that, pay your bill up front yourself to the billing agency. Another way you can have them forward the bills to your e-mail and you can wire the money to such department.

But leaving money for your boyfriend to pay these bills etc, is like asking for a hurricane to strike home. You can give him his allowance for the time he is gone if he is not working, but if he is working you should know what and how he spends his money weekly. Take it from there what he should have for the month.

Granted also because you are going to be gone, of course he will obviously get some chick on the side to tend to his personal needs and calling. This is typical of males and is to be expected. So it should not be a surprise to you upon your return to hear that a girl or two has been over etc.

So bottom line, watch your cash flow. Giving them this much money also invites trouble more ways than one beside pressure from family members who want their share of the stakes since they know your their ATM machine. Understand.

Look at it from the stand point that you have no boyfriend. Now you have to be gone for 3 months. What would you do if you were single. This is the way to approach this matter and deal with it yourself. Don't depend on others. Best way to survive in Thailand.

If you have stuff there inside, pray and hope it is still there upon your return. Sometimes these people can pawn off your things and when you come home all is gone. If I were you, when I have to be gone for 3 months, my place is off limits period to anybody, lock the door and secure your possessions and shut down all your utilities until you come back. This way you can have some peace of mind. As of the boyfriends, they can stay with some family members if any or find some place temporary till you get back. I know this sounds cruel, but remember you are in another country, and you are basically all on your own. You have nothing to fall back into if things disappear. Basically you are vulnerable to being eaten alive.

With that said and done I hope this gives you girls some food for thought and put aside your female feelings when it comes to making hard cold decisions. This is the difference between a man and a woman.

Good luck

Daveyo

[sbk]

Why are you responsible for paying for the upkeep of the house while you are gone? He is a grown man and perfectly capable of getting a job and taking care of his responsibilities. I have seen far too many girls hook up with guys who are completely irresponsible. If you would not accept this behavior from a boyfriend at home, why accept it from one here? There are plenty of thai men who are responsible enough to take care of their families, why can't he? If you are that concerned about money issues between you and your boyfriend then i think you need to sit down with him and have a very serious discussion about where the relationship is headed. frankly, trust is the foundation of a strong relationship and if you cannot trust him (doesn't matter what the issue is; money, girls, work etc) then your relationship will be a very painful one for you. You need to work out guidelines between the two of you on how things work and stick to them, otherwise there will be constant misunderstandings and problems.

good luck, communicating with a thai man is not easy but it must be done in a calm and rational manner. getting angry and screaming will not solve anything and will make him just refuse to listen. My husband and I have worked out some very serious issues over the years, and still do, but i have found the only way to get these things worked out is to stay calm, make my points clear and come up with some solutions as well.

altho, lets face it girls, these guidelines work well with any guy no matter where he comes from because guys have a really hard time dealing with the emotional side of an issue and prefer to deal with it in a more "logical" manner.

[sbk]

Sorry for the double posting here!

Daveyo, lets face it, this story happens to alot of farang here, its not just thai guys but also thai girls who look at their current b-friend/g-friend as the walking ATM. sad but true. that said, i think it depends on the partner and his/her background. my husband comes from a well-to-do family and would never think of sponging off of me, in fact, he has more money than i do. that said, everything we have is joint and I trust my husband implicitly. he has never cheated on me and wouldn't, he is just not the type. if a person hooks up with someone who takes their money and cheats on them while they are gone then it is probably not going to be the healthiest/happiest relationship around. sometimes it is better to be single than to be miserable.

[regal]

Hi it's me again,

Little more about the story...

When I came home ALL my personal stuff was all here and the house was greatly improved. Things built, flowers and vines planted etc.

There was talk of Local girls coming over " friends" which I didn't give a second thought too, I have so many Male friends that I’ve stayed with over the time that I was traveling I refuse to be a hypocrite. What I said was what you did while I was gone and was in the past and in your Karma, and the same for me. I understand that being away for a long time is never easy for anyone or anywhere.

Even after all the improvements to house (if, lets say I was paying him labor and materials) we are still talking about a big debt left. About 600 euros.

My rent is so cheap that its better that I pay to keep the house rather than toss my boyfriend, Of course with knowing what I know now I'm not too sure what to do next time. I hoping there won’t be a next time.

And effort is being made to be repaid, I have some collateral and a busniess venture happing, so we will see. My biggest problem still does seem to be commancating. My Thai is OK but I really feel like I need some help with it. He just does not want to talk and he really seems to tell me things I want to hear rather than the wholle truth. This is where I don’t know what to do; if I get a third party he just loses more face. Know of and good translating service online?

Regal

Ps Thanks for all your advice.. its been great.. I have learned my lesson about access to money and how to avoid it.

[tomy]

PIMPING all the way babieeeee!, give me money and i'll take care of you, there's no reason not to tell where the money goes, you might want to go down the nearest hoochies bar with a photo of him and ask have you seen this guy.

[sbk]

very nice tomy after that, somehow i doubt she is interested!

mmm... if your boyfriend doesn't already speak enough english to discuss this kind of stuff you learning enough thai to do so will be quite toughit could be just his unwillingness to listen (another one of those male traits). i have found just getting mine alone and talking to him about what is going on helps alot. sometimes you gotta force them to listen.

[Never Never land]

Sounds like the JAP that Marry some ISAN girl and them come back and the real husband was sleeping in "his house"

I just like to say that Thai people have sometimes (more then farrang) difficults to THINK whats going to happend when some found out they take money.

I think they call it SANOOK SANOOK.

Btw the avarge criminal has an IQ of a 7 year old and i dont mean the Nigerian gang thats in there with them (in prison)

[Boo]

I have to agree about why you would be supporting a grown man who has a job, whilst you were back home, if he isn't pulling his weight financially, then this will cause big problems for you in the future. If your lifestyle in Thailand is costing more than he can afford then by all means be the one who pays for the major expenses, this is what most farang have to do, male & female, but make it clear that you expect him to contribute to the daily costs of living. Before my husband & I married, I went home every year for about 3 months to work, the rent on our house was paid, by me, because it was 12k baht per month (I know very few thais who could afford or would pay this kind of money for a house anyway) but he has always paid the utilities, electric, telephone etc as well as all the grocery costs & takes care of our dogs when I am away, this expense he has is about half the rent on the house per month, so for me it is a good balance, I don't feel like I am bearing the brunt of all costs & he doesn't feel like he's paying too much for a too big house.

I really think that you need to evaluate how important this guy is to you & whether you can forge a long lasting relationship with him, there are very few things that I will tolorate when it comes to my relationship with my husband & he with me, I would not accept a bunch of thai or farang "friends" coming to my house when I was away, the same he wouldn't accept me being in the house with farang or thai men when he wasn't around. We are together & having various female "friends" around while i wasn't here would be disrespectful to me as it would be to him of it was the other way around. I also have a lot of male friends from my time here before him but they also understand the bounderies & now visit when we are here together as they have become his friends too. Be careful Regal, sometimes it's hard to be tough, especially if he is unwilling to talk with you, but isn't your self-respect something worth standing firm on? This is a difficult situation to deal with but something that, if you don't sort it out now, could cause you a lot of pain & heartache in the future. Good Luck.

[Roguetrader]

Ha it's the usual story of the good old Farang ATM. Doesn't much matter whether the Thai is male or female they have come to believe that farang has so much money he can never run out. The vast majority of Thais that I have met have no understanding of responsibility when it coes to money, course neither do many farangs. But certainly the phenomenon seems exagerated in Thailand. I'm afraid best advice is you take care of bills in advance personally before you go.

[Mr Helper]

Oh dear.....................poor you regal. Maybe if you had read up on thai culture during your 1.5 yrs with your bf, then you would never have had this problem. Any money borrowed to a Thai 'friend', or lover, should be seen as a gift. Especially if it is from a farang. Just forget about the money regal, its gone, and you'll never get it back, because no matter what you have told your bf, or arranged beforehand he will always see it as a gift.

[dr_Pat_Pong]

Oh dear.....................poor you regal. Maybe if you had read up on thai culture during your 1.5 yrs with your bf, then you would never have had this problem. Any money borrowed to a Thai 'friend', or lover, should be seen as a gift. Especially if it is from a farang. Just forget about the money regal, its gone, and you'll never get it back, because no matter what you have told your bf, or arranged beforehand he will always see it as a gift.

Helper ...Hmmmm do you always offer gratuitous advice, and generalizations ? Are you a bit anti Thai ? It behoves me to ask you why you hang about here.

[sbk]

kinda makes you wonder doesn't it dr pat pong? I always really like these blanket generalizations about people. I mean, heck, there are over 60 million thai people and they are all like that! it truly is "amazing thailand" .

[jjrbus]

I read these post's so I can understand the Thai people, culture ect. My first respose was the guy is a scumbag, and then I read about the Thai seeing it as a gift, peer presure, family and then I think, maybe I'm wrong, just maybe it is a cultural thing. very confuseing. I'm trying to be open minded about this, but it is very difficult.

Jim

[D80]

Well, I don't know how much help I will be...

I am Thai and I don't want to cause any trouble here by saying what I am about to say.....

Thai society as I know it view a man who takes women's money as a 'mang-da' (in Thai) or 'pimp' (exception made when the man is the woman's father/little brother). If you ask most Thai woman whether she will happily take a man (as her boyfriend/husband) who takes/steal/borrow money from her without permission, I think most of them will answer 'no'.

As the culture goes, the Thais see men as having higher status than women. But with this higher status, they are also seen as the 'provider', the 'breadwinner' of the family. For them not to be able to do that and having to take money from the woman will bring shame to most.

My dad lost his job for around 3 weeks during the 1997 economic crisis and the sole income to the family then was from my mum. Everybody understood and no one blamed him for this. But he was so ashamed of the situation that he was doing anything that he could to get a job. That was partly why he got a job relatively quickly considering hardly anywhere want to hire new workers at that time. Why did he do this? Well, apart from wanting to support the family and takeing the weight off my mum, it is a cultural thing. He was raised to believe it is his duty as a man to do so and for a man to take money off a woman (especially if the woman is his wife/gf) is wrong. I'm not going to judge whether this is good but it's what most traditional Thais have been brought up to believe.

It is also partly the reason why 'dowry' is expected from a man when he ask someone's daughter for her hand. Although many abuse it, the logic behind it was to ensure the man is a worker and can earn enough to be the head of the household. Many Thai men think they are not ready to marry until they can earn enough to support a wife. Some men think it is actually a failure on thier part as a man if they cannot provide to the family/couple.

I am only describing Thai culture as I experienced through growing up there. Things may have changed or vary according to the regions. All in all though, I think it's just not right that your boyfriend 'borrow' money without your permission. If you two are really close and can communicate to one another pretty clearly, then it is possible that he consider 'what's yours is mine and what's mine is yours'. But I would seriously think long and hard about the whole relationship before I proceed any further.

Oh, and another thing is, I don't think when you lend money to a Thai, you should consider it a gift. There is a sort of saying in Thailand that if you lend your friend money, then it is best not to dwell on it so much as it will weaken the friendship. But that is just to help your state of mind and nothing to do with Thai people not giving you back the money. Of course, there will be some bastards out there who will cheat you. My family only know too well about this subject as we had been cheated in the same way. But it's no more common in Thailand than anywhere else that people don't pay back what they borrowed. All of my friends pay back what they've borrowed off me...so far anyway... eheheh

Good luck!

[jjrbus]

D80 Thank you for your very well thought out post. I was having a terrible time accepting that it was a cultural thing. Culture may play a part in behavior of this type, but still one should, be understanding, forgive and find another partner. Jim

[DaveYo]

Some good points from D80. However I would like to say this much.

Many westerners have a concept that it takes two to make it nowadays. In fact it is the truth. Trying to make it by yourself is next to impossible.

The belief of Thais is honorable, but when it comes to push and shove it is going to take two incomes to pay the bills and bring the food on the table and make a life to some degree. Trying to put all the weight on the mans shoulder is tantamount to early death. Both need to bring in the income for the family.

I can understand if the bread winner is being well paid and that this one income can put money in the savings account after all the expenses are paid up in full. However how many Thais can do this???????

So the cultural tradition is there, but the thinking has to switch and merge somehow to make it worth its while.

Being ashamed to not have a job has been ingrained into males for centuries. Usually the woman rear up the family, and the male goes to work every day. This was the basic concept back in the 30's, 40's, 50's and 60's.

Today it cannot be. So when a man receives money from a woman, and if she makes more than he does, accept it as is. Nothing to be ashamed about.

That is if you are married. But if you are single this is another story. A woman should not be giving money to her guy unless she is certain the relationship is very real and truly serious and has intents of getting married etc.

Foreign women need to understand that they too are walking ATM's to Thai males, just as much as Foreign males are walking ATM's to Thai females.

Also foreigners need to remember and keep this in mind foremost. When you marry a Thai, you indeed also marry to the family, and they expect results from you at least 80 % of the time. If you cannot bear with this, you need to make sure you express yourself up front right from the beginning and stick with it. To these families, it may be a heartbreak to them, but at the same token, it is your money and the amount you have is what you need to survive on and if you have a Thai partner who is married to you, you have to consider yourself and your other half or you will go broke trying to support everyone else.

I hope this clears up some things without being anti-thai at the same time. Just trying to be realistic.

Daveyo

[D80]

Thanks guys, for acknowledging my post. I would like to say a few more things if that is ok.

As society has changed over the year, it is of course more common now that the men and women contribute more equally in the relationship. I was merely pointing out that traditionally, this is how most Thais would view their relationship. And as it is part of Thai culture, it is deep rooted and will not easily changed. This reflects in many people's point of views in Thai society.

Personally I believe for a relationship to survive healthily in today society, both people in a relationship have to work together as a team rather than the 'front and back legs of the elephant' analogy that traditional Thai culture prefer.

So, although these days Thai men and women contribute more equally financially in their relationship, the feeling that the men are the 'dominant' provider is still strong. And because of this, it is very unusual for Thai men to take money off the women and still be considered 'decent' by people around him. I don't mean the odd occasions when a woman may decide to take her partner out for a meal or buy things for him or whatever. I'm talking about the situation where a woman gives the man money as 'allowance' for himself or where the man asks the woman for money or worse still steal it from her. I know such relationship exist. But it is not usually considered 'decent' among most Thais I know and rightly or wrongly the men will bear more of the blame in this situation.

Practically, even in the old days, it is not that the weight of providing for the family will be left on the man's shoulder alone either. Most will be raised to see it as his 'duty' as a man. But in reality, it is not likely that he will be the only one doing all the work.

The men are, as I said before, considered a 'dominant' provider and the women contribute what they can. Perhaps this is more common in the past where women didn't have much opportunity to study etc. But even in the old days, while the men go out and work somewhere outside the house, the women does the odd jobs to earn bits and pieces around the community as well (ie. making snacks, mending clothes etc etc). In an agricultural surrounding, the men and the women actually work together but the women will be more responsible for the housework.

If you are interested in how traditional Thais used to live and you can read Thai, try a book called 'Mua Khun Ta Khun Yai Yung Dek' (translated as 'When nan & grandad were young'). It's a smashing book, lots of fun stories & very educational. And according to most (old) people I talked to, it's pretty accurate! heheheh

Today, as Daveyo had pointed out, the contribution starts to even out, especially as women have more and more opportunity to study and work these days. It could still be different in the countryside, I don't know.

Havng said that, the situation where a Thai man decides to stay home and become a house husband while his wife goes out to work because she can earn more is still quite rare. Well, as far as I know, they are still quite rare. Generally, women in Thailand earn less than men (just like anywhere else in the world really) and have a harder time trying to find a good job in the first place (if you look at job claasification ad, some jobs will be advertised 'men only' and most 'women only' jobs would be receptionists, secretaries, waitresses, tour operators and such like... not exactly high flying jobs...). Many will have difficulties at work when they become pregnant or have kids. There are some protections legally but not near half as much as the women in the West may get. It will take a little while longer for gender equality to catch up around there.

I know 2-3 Thai couples where the husband become house husband & the wife works. They do attract a bit of criticism (which is pretty unfair, really). In the UK, I only know one farang couple who do the same. I don't know if it's the culture thing or not, but from what I have heard from the neighbourhood, there had also been a few sniggers about them that the woman 'wears the trousers' in their relationship. Everybody likes the guy but the view thay have against him is still there. So, maybe gender equality still has a long way to go no matter where we are in the world.

Also, I agree that when you marry a Thai, you do marry the family. However, this doesn't mean you have to give them money all the time. It probably depends on the family itself. Once you marry you bf/gf, the family will also consider you part of the family as well. I know my family certainly considers my hasband part of the family and we couldn't have got by so many difficulties without thier help. As part of the family, they will do ANYTHING (and I mean ANYTHING) they can to help you out. At least, that's my experience.

So, it works both ways, really. The family unit in Thailand is seen as extremely important partly because of the culture. But also because the lack of any social welfare system. Again, like the system of dowry, some people will abuse it and try to milk 'rich' in-laws. It's not just farangs that will get it. Unfortunately though... farangs are usually seen as rich and can become easy target for these people.

For some family, if you are rich, you're supposed to be the main financial contributor. But for most family that I have seen, it is not usually the case. Marrying the family for them means that you get involved in the family activities and not just distant yourself. Sometimes, it's about connection that you have and sometimes it's about what you can contribute to the family by your labour or by helping each other out one way or the other. It's hard to explain, but from what I have experienced it is not just about the money. I can honestly said we (my husband and I) were probably given more stuff/money/help by my family than we'd ever given to them (and I'm not proud of it!-we're trying to do something for them to show our gratitude!). Perhaps it vary from family to family, regions to regions etc etc.

Daveyo is right in a way that farang women 'could' be seen as walking ATM as much as farang men 'could'. So, one has to be careful & watch out for some people that are out to take advantage of you. There are also loads of nice people around. We'll all just have to live and learn, no matter if we are farangs or Thais.

How did I get to discussing all this??!! heheheh this means the forum is very good for mental stimulation!

[DaveYo]

Hey D80, the real reason I said that about either sex being an ATM is happening right now with me.

My wife does not want to go near her family, because every time they call they want money. When she is with them, bingo, they ask her for some money knowing I am the farang she is married to overall.

She cannot stand it, so she lives at places where the family has a hard time finding her other than jingling her phone all the time. I can see her point when she told me she does not want either of us hanging around near her folks.

So I have been told to zip it and not say a word to any of her family members except to smile as usual and direct them towards my wife. Those were her orders so when that happens i usually fudge out on some nice ice cold chocolate milk and mind my own business.

In any rate it is obvious her side being her mothers side looks at us like walking ATMS

Daveyo

[D80]

Daveyo,

I understand perfecly and you do have a good point. Experience with Thais and Thai family can vary and that's why I post my own experience to illustrate that.

I think quita a few people have the same problem you described. It must be really difficult to sort out.

[Mr Helper]

Offensive post removed

Edited November 26, 2003 by dr_Pat_Pong

[Never Never land]

Please do not give any body money just beucase you stay with them. Give them money if you stay with them and you help each other out but not a one way street man or women. I never give any girl money is she does not help out. Having a a baby is consider work i think but give you pleasure is not.

[Nam Kao]

My thai wife grew up way in the sticks, she has been here in the US with me for 5

years now, The way it works is it is my job is to make $$ for the family. Her job is

to do everything else. At home I do not lift a finger, once in awhile she'll ask

me to take the trash if its to heavy. I say "beer" bang she runs over and grabs

one for me. She washes my car and keeps it spotless. When she first came here

I asked her "Do you want a car?, freinds? She said "No my job stay home and

take care husband". Tears came to my eye. Tears of JOY!

[elfe]

Nam, congrats you have found such a good wife (domestic servant?)

hopefully her tears are the ones of JOY as well

[TizMe]

My thai wife grew up way in the sticks, she has been here in the US with me for 5

years now, The way it works is it is my job is to make $$ for the family. Her job is

to do everything else. At home I do not lift a finger, once in awhile she'll ask

me to take the trash if its to heavy. I say "beer" bang she runs over and grabs

one for me. She washes my car and keeps it spotless. When she first came here

I asked her "Do you want a car?, freinds? She said "No my job stay home and

take care husband". Tears came to my eye. Tears of JOY!

I thought slavery had been abolished in the U.S ?

[Chutimat]

Hi,

I have been a member of this site for quite sometime already. As a Thai who used to live aboard for 10 years and just returned back to Thailand.... I understand that many foreigners wnat to be friend with the locals .... it is the same while I was in UK. After reading this story..... I want to tell you that this is nothing to do with culture. I am sorry to say that many (not all) Thai people who involve or try to get involve with foreigner is looking for money!!!! and many of you seem to end up with them. Even if you want to have local friends please take time to find the nice ones not the first one that approach you. Please do not include all Thais into that category.

Nat.

[DaveYo]

Chuti, we try not to. It does behoove me to see that it does happen way too often. But you do have a nice point. I just wonder how and why some do end up in such darn position anyway. I guess different strokes for different folks does apply.

So, you gone for 10 years. Wow, what brought you back to Thailand????

Daveyo

[dr_Pat_Pong]

I thought slavery had been abolished in the U.S ?

It's back with a vengeance Tiz.....5 years of it...poor kid

[the gentleman]

I personally think this story is universal, it happens in every country. He sounds like he isnt the right type of man that you should be planning a future with.