I meet lots of westerners who express sympathetic views on Putin's war in Ukraine. Basically they repeat the Russian propaganda points about Putin's having no other choice, NATO expansion, Nazism in Ukraine, threat to Russia, etc. Many say that if they were in Putin's shoes, they would do the same.

 

That's why I need this poll, to see if that is a common thread among westerners or it was just me meeting individuals with unconventional views.

 

Edited May 11, 20242 yr by JoseThailand

While I voted 'No', that's really on balance, ad its not a simple issue.  Both NATO and the EU were too hasty .... it was just not wise to rush the rhetoric about Ukraine joining, and it's the Ukrainian people who have suffered.

 

Arrogant politicians on all sides.

10 hours ago, JoseThailand said:

I meet lots of westerners who express sympathetic views on Putin's war in Ukraine. Basically they repeat the Russian propaganda points about Putin's having no other choice, NATO expansion, Nazism in Ukraine, threat to Russia, etc. Many say that if they were in Putin's shoes, they would do the same.

 

That's why I need this poll, to see if that is a common thread among westerners or it was just me meeting individuals with unconventional views.

 

Why do you refer to it as Russian propaganda points? This implies that they are not valid. This shows me also what your personal view is. 
 

Anyhow, you could have saved yourself time and effort as over 90% will feel he is an aggressor and criminal.

2 hours ago, Gweiloman said:

Why do you refer to it as Russian propaganda points? This implies that they are not valid. This shows me also what your personal view is. 
 

Anyhow, you could have saved yourself time and effort as over 90% will feel he is an aggressor and criminal.

Since there is no free press in Russia it is called propaganda.

14 hours ago, JoseThailand said:

Nazism in Ukraine

Absurd but true.

He has many fanboys among German right wing extremists and outright (neo)Nazis.

I think they see him as a new fuehrer/strong man.

I remembered one of them that on May 9 the defeat of the German Nazis was celebrated.

Message with no response.

if the Ukraine, i.e. American and European politicians, hadn't forbidden the broadcasting of news from the front, seen by the Russians, this war - pointless, because the biggest losers are the Ukrainians themselves - would have been over long ago.

14 hours ago, KhunBENQ said:

Nazism in Ukraine

During the Second World War, Stepan Bandera, a Ukrainian who served as a senior officer in the dreaded SS division, which represented the very essence of Nazism, was made a national hero of Ukraine by Zelisnky

Americans are the most highly propagandized population in the world. The difference between an American and a Russian or Chinese person is the Russian or Chinese know they are being propagandized. 

13 hours ago, Robert Paulson said:

Americans are the most highly propagandized population in the world. The difference between an American and a Russian or Chinese person is the Russian or Chinese know they are being propagandized. 

 

Most Russians don't know that. They truly believe what they're being told

14 hours ago, Pique Dard said:

was made a national hero of Ukraine by Zelisnky

I think it was done before him. He positioned himself as "moderate jew" (although he is not) and got positive support from anerican and israeli jewish leaders. 

Openly proclaiming Bandera as a national hero would backfire at him and his sugar daddies.

Was it that Poroshenko back than?

19 minutes ago, JoseThailand said:

 

Most Russians don't know that. They truly believe what they're being told

Not Russians I’ve spoken to. Or Chinese. But maybe that makes sense since I talked to the ones who had left their country. At least temporarily.

 

idk how these are even discussions myself. Just reverse engineer it a little. When was the last time the usa told the truth about how and why they entered a war to the public. I’ll wait.

 

so… anyone who believes them this time for some miraculous reason, idk they happen to be telling the truth because “this time its Putin” or whatever bloviates out of their mouth is pure swill

35 minutes ago, JoseThailand said:

 

Most Russians don't know that. They truly believe what they're being told

We need a poll on how many Russians think Russia blew up their own pipeline. I could take a guess at what the poll would look like but I’m not sure your guess would be too accurate? 

24 minutes ago, Robert Paulson said:

We need a poll on how many Russians think Russia blew up their own pipeline. I could take a guess at what the poll would look like but I’m not sure your guess would be too accurate? 

Who blew up the pipeline?

 

 

In the interest in opinion I wold say the majority of Russians would  accurately  say that Russia  did not blow up it's own pipeline.

The origanla era of  West vs Soviet  propaganda  dies with the demise of the Soviet regime.

The Soviets did not require  propaganda. The threat of  repercussions in  non compliance  negated "propaganda".

It was the  West that felt the need to advertise the imminent  "reds under the beds"  rhetoric  .

The inherent  differentiation has persisted  for reason not so far removed .

 

 

15 minutes ago, Hummin said:

Who blew up the pipeline?

 

 

Inconclusive. 

14 minutes ago, 0ffshore360 said:

In the interest in opinion I wold say the majority of Russians would  accurately  say that Russia  did not blow up it's own pipeline.

The origanla era of  West vs Soviet  propaganda  dies with the demise of the Soviet regime.

The Soviets did not require  propaganda. The threat of  repercussions in  non compliance  negated "propaganda".

It was the  West that felt the need to advertise the imminent  "reds under the beds"  rhetoric  .

The inherent  differentiation has persisted  for reason not so far removed .

 

 

So the Russians have a beat on what actually happened to the pipeline more than Americans. 
 

just as I stated earlier. Americans are the most propagandized nation in the world. 

On 5/12/2024 at 5:57 PM, Robert Paulson said:

Americans are the most highly propagandized population in the world. The difference between an American and a Russian or Chinese person is the Russian or Chinese know they are being propagandized. 

You believe that a country with many competing news sources, both foreign and domestic, has more propaganda that countries where the government controls the "news".  Explain how that works.

On 5/12/2024 at 3:19 AM, KhunBENQ said:

Absurd but true.

He has many fanboys among German right wing extremists and outright (neo)Nazis.

I think they see him as a new fuehrer/strong man.

I remembered one of them that on May 9 the defeat of the German Nazis was celebrated.

Message with no response.

I assume by "he" you mean Putin.

20 hours ago, Jingthing said:

Inconclusive. 

 

I don't know. Since it happened Lavrov has stated he will present conclusive proof that the Americans did it, that the UK did it, that the Norwegians did it, that the US and UK did one side each, that the Anglo-Saxons did it, that everyone other than Russia did it.  He was so confident that he gave specific dates on when each of these proofs would be presented.  Dates that have long since passed.  That's good enough for many though.

On 5/11/2024 at 11:44 PM, JoseThailand said:

I meet lots of westerners who express sympathetic views on Putin's war in Ukraine. Basically they repeat the Russian propaganda points about Putin's having no other choice, NATO expansion, Nazism in Ukraine, threat to Russia, etc. Many say that if they were in Putin's shoes, they would do the same.

 

That's why I need this poll, to see if that is a common thread among westerners or it was just me meeting individuals with unconventional views.

 

 I don't think 25 votes are representative. I voted yes because it's simply a fact that the 2014 agreement was trashed by the Ukrainians with USA backing. A better Poll is "should a negotiated peace be saught" surely we can all agree on that?

21 hours ago, Jingthing said:

Inconclusive. 

 Maybe the Russians did it?  LOL 

On 5/13/2024 at 7:50 PM, Hummin said:

Who blew up the pipeline?

 

 

 

On 5/13/2024 at 8:05 PM, Jingthing said:

Inconclusive. 

Certainly a western country, most likely the one with the capability and the most to gain. If there was any suspicion that it was Russia or China or any African country, the UN wouldn’t be blocking calls for an international investigation and Denmark and Sweden wouldn’t keep their findings secret.

On 5/13/2024 at 6:49 PM, JoseThailand said:

 

Most Russians don't know that. They truly believe what they're being told

I didn’t realise so many posters here were Russians. I’m certainly not one.

There was a limit to how many lives could be lost in the Donbass to nazi shelling. Putin had to act and he did so decisively but with total obedience to the rules of war. Ukraine will have an embarrassing time next month at the peace conference asking folk to sign on to Zelensky's peace plan in which Russia totally capitulates and surrenders to Ukraine. One to look forward to.....watch the cancellations come flying in. 

3 hours ago, retarius said:

There was a limit to how many lives could be lost in the Donbass to nazi shelling. Putin had to act and he did so decisively but with total obedience to the rules of war. Ukraine will have an embarrassing time next month at the peace conference asking folk to sign on to Zelensky's peace plan in which Russia totally capitulates and surrenders to Ukraine. One to look forward to.....watch the cancellations come flying in. 

I don't know where you get your news, but I'm pretty sure the vilified MSM has shown, with significant evidence, that Russia has not been following the "rules of war" claim.

 

Regarding "There was a limit to how many lives could be lost in the Donbass to nazi shelling.", please do provide credible sources.

3 hours ago, retarius said:

There was a limit to how many lives could be lost in the Donbass to nazi shelling. Putin had to act and he did so decisively but with total obedience to the rules of war. Ukraine will have an embarrassing time next month at the peace conference asking folk to sign on to Zelensky's peace plan in which Russia totally capitulates and surrenders to Ukraine. One to look forward to.....watch the cancellations come flying in. 

Nazi shelling?

Thank you Vladimir.

On 5/14/2024 at 5:42 PM, BobBKK said:

 I don't think 25 votes are representative. I voted yes because it's simply a fact that the 2014 agreement was trashed by the Ukrainians with USA backing. A better Poll is "should a negotiated peace be saught" surely we can all agree on that?

The only negotiated peace Putin would accept is total surrender.

1 hour ago, Jingthing said:

The only negotiated peace Putin would accept is total surrender.

 I don't believe that is true - a deal was signed, and Boris destroyed it. 

4 hours ago, retarius said:

There was a limit to how many lives could be lost in the Donbass to nazi shelling. Putin had to act and he did so decisively but with total obedience to the rules of war. Ukraine will have an embarrassing time next month at the peace conference asking folk to sign on to Zelensky's peace plan in which Russia totally capitulates and surrenders to Ukraine. One to look forward to.....watch the cancellations come flying in. 

 It is true, but the majority here believe MSNBC, CNN and the three B's

Biden/Blinken/Boris

17 hours ago, Jingthing said:

Nazi shelling?

Thank you Vladimir.

Hmmm… wasn’t a Nazi soldier recently celebrated and applauded in a western Parliament?