Prostitution : Is It Wrong To Pay For Sex ?

[F1fanatic]

Sorry, I've no idea how I've got it so wrong.

There were so many of the local women finding any excuse to talk to a male farang, even those that didn't work in a bar(!), that I was stupid enough to think they thought all farang were rich - just what they wanted.

And all the time they thought the Thai men would give them more money, and were pursuing the farang to be friendly.

[mark45y]

Programming is an interesting thought.

I was young when I realized about the programming. I got drafted and sent to South East Asia. When I left college the women were wearing stockings and garter belts.

I got back and found they were wearing pantyhose.

Honest I wouldn't lie to you. Everyone had switched.

I left the country again to work and when I came back there was sexual harassment. It wasn't there when I left. No one was harassing anyone. When I got back men were running for the hills.

I think some men who post on Thai Visa are living in Thailand but their minds are still in the west.

They see what they see but miss the point. They think Issan is Kansas with skinny women.

Guesthouse thinks there are enslaved abused women on every corner. And Sokol thinks Thai women only do guys for money.

There is a go go club in Pattaya where four of the dancers had Falang boyfriends. All the rest had Thai boyfriends. The dancers pay for everything for the boyfriends. They pay for rent and food and cash for spending.

Guesthouse claims to speak Thai and know some Thai bar girls and has heard their sad stories. 90% of Thai bar girls support Thai husbands or boyfriends if he didn't hear those stories he was just a John. Like all the other Johns that get the standard line.

Is his information to be beloved? No, of course not he was just another potential customer. He has never lived with one let alone twenty or thirty bar girls. He has not the experience to even talk about the genre with most falang men living in Thailand.

He has bought the story he has read from NGO's or others in the west who are not able to find the truth or when find can't report it because it is not in their programming to compute.

But that is his right. It is his programming but I hope no one confuses it with the voices of experience.

"here is a go go club in Pattaya where four of the dancers had Falang boyfriends. All the rest had Thai boyfriends." - So why were they in falang bars?

Obviously it can't be because they were looking for a falang b/f.... even though they would have preferred a Thai, but unlike their friends - were unable to find a male Thai that would be happy with them screw....g a falang and giving their 'earned' money to their b/f.

Good grief - grow up people! It may go against the grain for Westerners to seek money above love, but its the norm here..... in fact they are proud of it instead of ashamed....

Most Thai prostitutes never work in a Falang bar. Only 5 to 10%. The pay isn't much better in a Falang bar but there are so few in comparison with Thai bars that it is just a matter of supply and demand.

The four Falang boyfriends were pretty cool. One was a dive instructor, one an AWOL soldier, one an out of work musician and the last one was a 16 year old English kid who came to Pattaya with his father because his mother kicked him out of the house in England. He was the funny one. His lady, who was 18 bought him a Honda 150 CBR motorcycle and lots of gold. It was hysterical watching him do his imitation of a hip hop black guy.

You're kidding right??

Prossy's that work in Thai bars don't think they're attractive enough to work in a falang bar.... They would ALL give anything for a falang male that obviously must be 'rich' - by their definition.

Male Thais treat them as precisely what they are - its only falangs that try to pretend they're a g/f - not paid for sex.....

Thai males don't think it is wrong to pay for sex. Thai prostitutes don't think it is wrong for men to pay for sex. Thai women on the whole would rather work in Thai bars because they have more choices as to who to go with and there is a more social atmosphere. Falang bars only get the leftovers that Thai men don't want.

[Ulysses G.]

Thai males don't think it is wrong to pay for sex. Thai prostitutes don't think it is wrong for men to pay for sex.

That is the whole thing in a nutshell. Puritanical Western guilt strikes again.

[473geo]

Luckily there are enough Farangs who appear to be happy to pay for the leftovers.....bless 'em..... .

[F1fanatic]

NOBODY thinks its wrong to pay for sex - as long as there's no pretense about love involved.

Male Thais treat them as precisely what they are - its only falangs that try to pretend they're a g/f - not paid for sex.....

[mark45y]

NOBODY thinks its wrong to pay for sex - as long as there's no pretense about love involved.

Male Thais treat them as precisely what they are - its only falangs that try to pretend they're a g/f - not paid for sex.....

I don’t think it is wrong to pay for sex. I don’t think it is wrong when a woman pays me for sex. I don’t think love has anything to do with it. It is not just Thai men that feel this way. Any man with any brains feels this way. Tina Turner doesn’t either.

I think you are giving male Thai’s a bad rap. Sure they pay for sex, sure they don’t think there is anything wrong with paying for sex. Sure 90% of the prostitutes have Thai husbands who I am also sure don’t think it is wrong to pay for sex.

I also think you are making out Falangs to be dumber than they are. They pay for sex. They know they pay for sex. They pay for the GF experience. The problems come when you don’t know what you are paying for.

I guess the crux of the question is “is it wrong to pay for sex period.” Is it going off topic to ask, if it is wrong to pay for sex what should you do about it? Is it going off topic to ask who it hurts by paying for sex? Is it going off topic to ask what kind of relationships are involved in paying for sex?

The whole thing about what is involved in paying for sex is too complicated for me to understand given the current parameters of the discussion. So I will leave it to others to clarify the issue further before I comment about something I am not supposed to comment about.

[Shotime]

It feels so wrong, it's gotta be right.

[spud1]

I think certain posters have found their forte in regards of the subject on this thread.Personally I don't think it's something to be boasting about.The headstone inscription read. RIP.knew alot about hookers.

[IanForbes]

Mark quote"

:

"Thai males don't think it is wrong to pay for sex. Thai prostitutes don't think it is wrong for men to pay for sex. Thai women on the whole would rather work in Thai bars because they have more choices as to who to go with and there is a more social atmosphere. Falang bars only get the leftovers that Thai men don't want".

That is pretty much it in a nutshell. Having wandered around the thousands of bars in Pattaya, Bangkok, Kanchanaburi, Krabi, Phuket, Chiang Mai and every place in between for the past 14 years I can truthfully say I have to agree with Mark in that the "leftovers" in the farang bars leave a bit to be desired when taken as a whole, Yah, there is the occasional princess, but, on average, there are far more beauties in the Thai bars than in the farang bars. Most of the open bars in the Pattaya strip are populated with average looking women in their late twenties or early thirties, and of which many are over weight. But, I love them anyways. I can sit down, have a beer, flirt a bit and play pool all evening if I want to. If I buy a lady a drink she'll be my friend for the evening, no questions asked. Everybody is having a good time and it's like the best party you ever went to... with the added bonus that you can take someone home at the end of the night... or not.

I don't want a steady relationship, nor can I afford another one. I'm just too fussy in who I go home with. And, you still pay for sex in any case. It can be straight up with money spent, or in all the many "honey-doos" needed to seduce the woman. Don't kid yourself; If the litlle lady aint happy then you ain't getting any. The gals who work the bars provide a good service and for that I'm thankful. I'll make no judgement on their character.

[spud1]

I think certain posters have found their forte in regards of the subject on this thread.Personally I don't think it's something to be boasting about.The headstone inscription read. RIP.knew alot about hookers.

I'm assuming you answer is that it's wrong. Who are you, the Pope?

If you can't understand then keep assuming.

[sokal]

NOBODY thinks its wrong to pay for sex - as long as there's no pretense about love involved.

Male Thais treat them as precisely what they are - its only falangs that try to pretend they're a g/f - not paid for sex.....

Male Thai's treat all women that way. Open your eyes, look at their reputation.

Marriage is corrupted prostitution.

Edited July 24, 2010 by sokal

[473geo]

NOBODY thinks its wrong to pay for sex - as long as there's no pretense about love involved.

Male Thais treat them as precisely what they are - its only falangs that try to pretend they're a g/f - not paid for sex.....

Male Thai's treat all women that way. Open your eyes, look at their reputation.

Marriage is corrupted prostitution.

Marriage is about building and maintaining a relationship, planning and producing a family preparing and looking forward to the future.

Prostitution is about paying to empty your <deleted> in a sperm receptical and closing the door on the way out.

You cannot see a slight difference there?

[TAWP]

One is a relationship built on love [hopefully] and the other is a renting of a service.

There is a big different.

[sokal]

NOBODY thinks its wrong to pay for sex - as long as there's no pretense about love involved.

Male Thais treat them as precisely what they are - its only falangs that try to pretend they're a g/f - not paid for sex.....

Male Thai's treat all women that way. Open your eyes, look at their reputation.

Marriage is corrupted prostitution.

Marriage is about building and maintaining a relationship, planning and producing a family preparing and looking forward to the future.

Prostitution is about paying to empty your <deleted> in a sperm receptical and closing the door on the way out.

You cannot see a slight difference there?

As men, we all know that a woman's primary objective is to marry. I've discovered their most commonly used strategy. here it is:

1. Girl pressures guy for marriage.

2. Guy delays.

3. Girl gradually starts destroying guy's self-esteem and eliminating his friends.

4. Guy becomes too weak and too much of a loser to find something better than what he has.

5. Girl starts to limit sex. In effect controlling the only good thing in the guy's life.

6. Guy is in despair. Capitulates to marriage.

Then 5-10 years later the guy is an empty shell of his former self. Girl is a ruthless manipulating machine. Girl divorces loser husband. Girl takes 80% of guy's stuff because the guy is too brain dead to find a good lawyer. Girl lives happily ever after. Guy becomes bald alcoholic who dies of heart attack at 45 years old.

[sokal]

One is a relationship built on love [hopefully] and the other is a renting of a service.

There is a big different.

There is a thing called "falling in love within a framework" which means these women at a subconscious level only allow themselves to fall for men who meet their conditions in regard to success, wealth, etc. The other guys, no matter how nice, intelligent, good-natured, and self-assured, will get screened out before they are even seriously considered, in 90% of cases.

And there is nothing wrong with that, its natural.

[473geo]

I'm pleased my world is so different to yours Sokal........I wouldn't even be alive in yours.....and if I was in it earlier in life I would have probably hung myself anyway!!!!

In my world life is good, when bad things do happen you just get over them, you really think what you have decribed above is how marriage is arrived at, and the subsequent plot unfolds..........man you need to get out of your world and try mine!!!!

[IanForbes]

Marriage is about building and maintaining a relationship, planning and producing a family preparing and looking forward to the future.

Prostitution is about paying to empty your <deleted> in a sperm receptical and closing the door on the way out.

You cannot see a slight difference there?

That is how most marriages are intended at the start, but not what they turn into 10 years down the road. The 80% of the ones that fall apart is the reason why some people wise up and turn to prostitution. If you like those odds, then keep buying the lottery tickets or spinning the roulette wheel. There is still no cut and dried answer that fits all relationships. I highly doubt Mark's figures that 90% of Thai bar girls being married or in serious relationships (with Thai men or farangs). My guess is it's more like 10%. However, considering that I don't really care WHAT the bar girls do in their spare time, it doesn't bother me one way or another. They don't care what I do either. I enjoy the freedom of doing whatever I want for as long as I want to do it. I don't need a mommy to look after me, and I don't lack for company when I want it. How it works for others is entirely up to themselves.

I don't regret having been married. I have two well adjusted offspring and three lovely grand children. I hope my kid's marriages last, but if they don't then life doesn't end with a divorce. Life often gets better.

I'm glad the mods have managed to keep this interesting topic on the rails, although I'm surprised it lasted this long.

Edited July 24, 2010 by IanForbes

[Shotime]

I think certain posters have found their forte in regards of the subject on this thread.Personally I don't think it's something to be boasting about.The headstone inscription read. RIP.knew alot about hookers.

I'm assuming you answer is that it's wrong. Who are you, the Pope?

If you can't understand then keep assuming.

Whether or not you care to boast about your knowledge on the subject is not the topic, and judgements as to how he'll be remembered is way off the Marky. The correct topic would be "What do you know about Prostitution." However, I do hope the poster who claims to have all this knowledge, has some other interests in life that may suit his tombstone.

I see that my post, although quoted, was deleted, and, deservedly, so.

[MB1]

Male Thais treat them as precisely what they are - its only falangs that try to pretend they're a g/f - not paid for sex.....

Thai males don't think it is wrong to pay for sex. Thai prostitutes don't think it is wrong for men to pay for sex. Thai women on the whole would rather work in Thai bars because they have more choices as to who to go with and there is a more social atmosphere. Falang bars only get the leftovers that Thai men don't want.

haha.No. Allot of Thai women I have met dont like Thai men not only because they treat them worse or that they typically have less money but also because they are short and they drink too much.

Can you say 100% that the Thai women you meet/prostitutes/girlfreind label, that tell you they don't like Thai men because they treat them worse and typically have less money and are short and drink too much are telling the truth, if you can say that 100% then IMO your seriously deluded, why I say that is because there are many Farang that have found out that the Thai woman/girl they are seeing have a Thai boyfreind in the background and the money she earns from farang pays for his motor bike, whisky and the list go's on.

Thai women lie, the same as western women, do you get it yet.?..

At 26 Sokal you really think you know it all,IMO you know nothing, infact I suspect that you think the bigger your wallet the more you get, you have no clue that certain women resent people who think that they can flash the cash and get in the sack with them because they have money...., maybe your not 26, infact you could be a 12, 13, 14 year old boy who's just trying act older and thinks he knows it all.

Like I have said more than once now, your post's keep getting better, oh by the way I noticed that up to now you have not replied to a post I made when I asked you to provide evidence proving that I had said that "No free sex happens in Thailand", I also note you can't back up the "racist" label you slapped on me, post 727, I also note you decided to evade post 688, probabaly because you realised that your wrong once again, as you have been so many times in this thread, or maybe you post while under the influence of chang or some other substance..

Maybe you should print off the whole of this thread and highlight who you are "Sokal" and what your posts are and send them to your parents and let them evaluate what you have posted, I'm pretty sure that by reading what you have posted if they are caring parents, they'd send you for evaluation with a therapist of some kind.

PS, I'm not trying to flame you, but am concerned at your way of thinking about women, but if you think I am trying to flame you, once again I'll remind you where the report button is, "bottom left of this post"..

HTH......

Edited July 25, 2010 by MB1

[Ulysses G.]

I have to agree that most Thai woman are lying when they claim to want nothing to do with Thai men. Most of them prefer them, no matter what they say to us. They are very good at telling us what we want to hear.

Edited July 25, 2010 by Ulysses G.

[sokal]

Male Thais treat them as precisely what they are - its only falangs that try to pretend they're a g/f - not paid for sex.....

Thai males don't think it is wrong to pay for sex. Thai prostitutes don't think it is wrong for men to pay for sex. Thai women on the whole would rather work in Thai bars because they have more choices as to who to go with and there is a more social atmosphere. Falang bars only get the leftovers that Thai men don't want.

haha.No. Allot of Thai women I have met dont like Thai men not only because they treat them worse or that they typically have less money but also because they are short and they drink too much.

Can you say 100% that the Thai women you meet/prostitutes/girlfreind label, that tell you they don't like Thai men because they treat them worse and typically have less money and are short and have less money are telling the truth, if you can say that 100% then IMO your seriously deluded, why I say that is because there are many Farang that have found out that the Thai woman/girl they are seeing have a Thai boyfreind in the background and the money she earns from farang pays for his motor bike, whisky and the list go's on.

Thai women lie, the same as western women, do you get it yet.?..

At 26 Sokal you really think you know it all,IMO you know nothing, infact I suspect that you think the bigger your wallet the more you get, you have no clue that certain women resent people who think that they can flash the cash and get in the sack with them because they have money...., maybe your not 26, infact you could be a 12, 13, 14 year old boy who's just trying act older and thinks he knows it all.

Like I have said more than once now, your post's keep getting better, oh by the way I noticed that up to now you have not replied to a post I made when I asked you to provide evidence proving that I had said that "No free sex happens in Thailand", I also note you can't back up the "racist" label you slapped on me, post 727, I also note you decided to evade post 688, probabaly because you realised that your wrong once again, as you have been so many times in this thread, or maybe you post while under the influence of chang or some other substance..

Maybe you should print off the whole of this thread and highlight who you are "Sokal" and what your posts are and send them to you parents and let them evaluate what you have posted, I'm pretty sure that by reading what you have posted if they are caring parents, they'd send you for evaluation with a therapist of some kind.

PS, I'm not trying to flame you, but am concerned at your way of thinking about women, but if you think I am trying to flame you, once again I'll remind you where the report button is, "bottom left of this post"..

How old are you and how do you look ? (You dont have to answer that)

You probably dont meet the same kind of Thai girls that I do so your assumptions about them don't apply.

Every post that you mentioned was just a misunderstanding on your part.

You only seem to know Thai women in group 1, in fact most guys replying in this thread only know women in group 1, I can tell from the responses. I know women in group 2 and up.

Edited July 25, 2010 by sokal

[Ulysses G.]

You must be joking. Thai Visa members only associate with women in category 5!

[Heng]

Can we also get some bell curves and probability distribution charts?

[473geo]

Marriage is about building and maintaining a relationship, planning and producing a family preparing and looking forward to the future.

Prostitution is about paying to empty your <deleted> in a sperm receptical and closing the door on the way out.

You cannot see a slight difference there?

That is how most marriages are intended at the start, but not what they turn into 10 years down the road. The 80% of the ones that fall apart is the reason why some people wise up and turn to prostitution. If you like those odds, then keep buying the lottery tickets or spinning the roulette wheel. There is still no cut and dried answer that fits all relationships. I highly doubt Mark's figures that 90% of Thai bar girls being married or in serious relationships (with Thai men or farangs). My guess is it's more like 10%. However, considering that I don't really care WHAT the bar girls do in their spare time, it doesn't bother me one way or another. They don't care what I do either. I enjoy the freedom of doing whatever I want for as long as I want to do it. I don't need a mommy to look after me, and I don't lack for company when I want it. How it works for others is entirely up to themselves.

I don't regret having been married. I have two well adjusted offspring and three lovely grand children. I hope my kid's marriages last, but if they don't then life doesn't end with a divorce. Life often gets better.

I'm glad the mods have managed to keep this interesting topic on the rails, although I'm surprised it lasted this long.

I'm pleased you think life has got better Ian......from what you say below perhaps not quite as good as it can get?

"Having wandered around the thousands of bars in Pattaya, Bangkok, Kanchanaburi, Krabi, Phuket, Chiang Mai and every place in between for the past 14 years I can truthfully say I have to agree with Mark in that the "leftovers" in the farang bars leave a bit to be desired when taken as a whole."

Also be careful not to confuse your situation of paying for sex with that of a younger unmarried man. You have retained a large part of the fulfilment of marriage, your family. You lost the wife and a few dollars but have retained an important aspect ,your children. Young unmarried men do not generally have family interests to fill the void when they are no longer in the paid company of sex workers.

As for me taking on the odds.......are you not the man who stated "I always see the glass as half full"???.............I like that too, but I also enjoy trying to see if I can get to fill it right to the top......against the odds!!!!

Edited July 25, 2010 by 473geo

[MiG16]

thankfully, I do not fit into any of those categories

[473geo]

thankfully, I do not fit into any of those categories

What about a spread bet?.........a bit out of all of them?

Edited July 25, 2010 by 473geo

[MiG16]

this thread is not exactly about me 473, but to indulge you - no I cant say I have traits from all of those categories either

the point was: I made the comment to highlight to people that those categories are not exhaustive

sure, some of the generalisations may apply to a group of people in similar background. but is that really only limited to Thai-Farang relationships? or could the same not be said of relationships between people of different social class and educational level, regardless of their ethnic backgrounds?

[TAWP]

Sokal>> You are mistaken, I for instance know women from 1 - 5. For various reasons. I would never mix the women from the different groups however or go with someone from the lower group and show my mom...

[IanForbes]

Marriage is about building and maintaining a relationship, planning and producing a family preparing and looking forward to the future.

Prostitution is about paying to empty your <deleted> in a sperm receptical and closing the door on the way out.

You cannot see a slight difference there?

That is how most marriages are intended at the start, but not what they turn into 10 years down the road. The 80% of the ones that fall apart is the reason why some people wise up and turn to prostitution. If you like those odds, then keep buying the lottery tickets or spinning the roulette wheel. There is still no cut and dried answer that fits all relationships. I highly doubt Mark's figures that 90% of Thai bar girls being married or in serious relationships (with Thai men or farangs). My guess is it's more like 10%. However, considering that I don't really care WHAT the bar girls do in their spare time, it doesn't bother me one way or another. They don't care what I do either. I enjoy the freedom of doing whatever I want for as long as I want to do it. I don't need a mommy to look after me, and I don't lack for company when I want it. How it works for others is entirely up to themselves.

I don't regret having been married. I have two well adjusted offspring and three lovely grand children. I hope my kid's marriages last, but if they don't then life doesn't end with a divorce. Life often gets better.

I'm glad the mods have managed to keep this interesting topic on the rails, although I'm surprised it lasted this long.

I'm pleased you think life has got better Ian......from what you say below perhaps not quite as good as it can get?

"Having wandered around the thousands of bars in Pattaya, Bangkok, Kanchanaburi, Krabi, Phuket, Chiang Mai and every place in between for the past 14 years I can truthfully say I have to agree with Mark in that the "leftovers" in the farang bars leave a bit to be desired when taken as a whole."

Also be careful not to confuse your situation of paying for sex with that of a younger unmarried man. You have retained a large part of the fulfilment of marriage, your family. You lost the wife and a few dollars but have retained an important aspect ,your children. Young unmarried men do not generally have family interests to fill the void when they are no longer in the paid company of sex workers.

As for me taking on the odds.......are you not the man who stated "I always see the glass as half full"???.............I like that too, but I also enjoy trying to see if I can get to fill it right to the top......against the odds!!!!

I haven't confused my situation with the situation of others, Geo. As I have stated many times... everyone is different and has a tale to tell. Everything is in shades of grey... from almost white to almost black, and everything in between. I understand humanity and I can see valid points on both sides of most debates. And, this has been a good debate. Without conflicting ideas and ideals this would be a boring site and would die a lonely death. There are only so many ways to discuss... "where can you buy a good pizza or hamburger"

Good luck at getting your glass full to the brim. I was reminded how lucky I am when my son and his family came to visit me tonight. My 4 year old grand daughter is a sweetie and she loves her "gramps"

[473geo]

this thread is not exactly about me 473, but to indulge you - no I cant say I have traits from all of those categories either

the point was: I made the comment to highlight to people that those categories are not exhaustive

sure, some of the generalisations may apply to a group of people in similar background. but is that really only limited to Thai-Farang relationships? or could the same not be said to relationships between people of different social class and educational level, regardless of their ethnic backgrounds?

Accepted. The chart does say a rough guide, and I don't get the impression you are rough.......

"could the same not be said of relationships between people of different social class and educational level, regardless of their ethnic backgrounds?"

I think yes.

The question your comment raises in relation to the thread is: Does poverty and desperation drive people in differing parts of the world to make these 'high risk' attachments? Does the player in the pay for sex arena make choices that others may not?....why?.....and what drives those choices?.........because there are posters here who appear to believe that a large percentage of pay for sex people are content in their chosen profession.

Edited July 25, 2010 by MiG16
took the liberty of correcting my grammar mistake :p - MiG16