Prostitution : Is It Wrong To Pay For Sex ?

[mark45y]

Oh, pleeeezzzeeeee! There are all kinds of jobs that are soul destroying. I know as I have held a number of them. Why single out prostitution as the only crappy job in the world? I have news for you. The vast majority of working people in the world did not dream of what they ended up doing when they were kids. Cry me a river.

So do you think the suicide rates for McDonald employees or janitors are the same as they are for prostitutes? What about the HIV/STD rate? What about the drug/alcohol abuse rate? What about the self harm rate? Prostitution is a profession that absolutely chews women up and spits them out.

Since you are talking about statistics that can’t be known like the suicide rate of janitors I thought I would put in my two cents. There are 2.8 million prostitutes in Thailand. Of those 1.4 million are short term prostitutes, that is 13 ½ months or less. The psychological harm to the short term prostitutes is no more severe than nurses in trauma or burn care units when looked at over an 8 year period.

Of the long term prostitutes 10 percent end up as wealthy land owners and 30 percent retire to a laundry or som tom stand business. 10 percent die.

The rate of HIV among long term female prostitutes is approximately the same as college sophomores who wear skirts more than 4 inches above the knee attending school in Bangkok or Chiang Mai.

The HIV rate among merchant seamen in Rayong is three times higher than long term prostitutes in Korat.

The incidence of lung cancer in Chiang Mai and Mataphut is 300% higher than the incidence of HIV at Sattahip Naval station.

In case you are wondering I made up all these statistics up. Pretty cool Eh?

Edited July 14, 2010 by mark45y

[MB1]

The experts are all playing to a politically correct audience .... sortof makes their conclusions suspect.

And just exactly how does violence over sexuality make it more or less PC?  

And as this has been published for years before people even started thinking about what is PC or not, I can't accept that rationalization.

What act of violence against your person would you consider worse than rape?

Having both your legs broken with a baseball bat?

Being blinded?

Death?

Now my personal rating would put it somewhere between a severe beating maybe with minor bones broken (not so bad) and having major bones broken (worse)

But many of the PC brigade would have it as almost as bad if not as bad as death.

Are you a man or a woman Sarah, I seem to remember that you said you'd posted on other boards/forums posing as a female member, or have you been brainwashed by the likes of that <deleted> Nick Erikson who was a candidate for the BNP and said..

"To suggest that rape, when conducted without violence, is a serious crime is like suggesting that forcefeeding a woman chocolate cake is a heinous offence. A woman would be more inconvenienced by having her handbag snatched."

Ask women how they feel about being raped and ask them about phycological scars that some never get over and carry around for ever, some even commit sucicide.

[Ulysses G.]

"To suggest that rape, when conducted without violence, is a serious crime is like suggesting that forcefeeding a woman chocolate cake is a heinous offence. A woman would be more inconvenienced by having her handbag snatched."

[cardholder]

Since you are talking about statistics that can’t be known like the suicide rate of janitors I thought I would put in my two cents. There are 2.8 million prostitutes in Thailand. Of those 1.4 million are short term prostitutes, that is 13 ½ months or less. The psychological harm to the short term prostitutes is no more severe than nurses in trauma or burn care units when looked at over an 8 year period.

Of the long term prostitutes 10 percent end up as wealthy land owners and 30 percent retire to a laundry or som tom stand business. 10 percent die.

The rate of HIV among long term female prostitutes is approximately the same as college sophomores who wear skirts more than 4 inches above the knee attending school in Bangkok or Chiang Mai.

The HIV rate among merchant seamen in Rayong is three times higher than long term prostitutes in Korat.

The incidence of lung cancer in Chiang Mai and Mataphut is 300% higher than the incidence of HIV at Sattahip Naval station.

In case you are wondering I made up all these statistics up. Pretty cool Eh?

GREAT STATS !!

Now that is what sells newspapers.

[elkangorito]

Nothing wrong with prostitution at all. It's all the idiots who bitch about it who make it wrong.

Edited July 14, 2010 by elkangorito

[F1fanatic]

Nothing wrong with prostitution at all. It's all the idiots who bitch about it who make it wrong.

Have to agree. As long as ITS MADE V CLEAR THAT THEY'RE A PROSTITUTE and providing a service for money - there's no problem.

The problem arises when they pretend they 'love' you.... You're so 'hansum', 'love you too much' etc.

There will always be people that need prostitutes. Men don't bitch about it in the West, because they wouldn't DREAM of taking one as a g/f - let alone as a wife!

Edited July 14, 2010 by F1fanatic

[Chunky1]

But it is so very confusing when you coming from a Western nation where not even the prostitutes pretend that they like you.

[MB1]

Nothing wrong with prostitution at all. It's all the idiots who bitch about it who make it wrong.

Have to agree. As long as ITS MADE V CLEAR THAT THEY'RE A PROSTITUTE and providing a service for money - there's no problem.

The problem arises when they pretend they 'love' you.... You're so 'hansum', 'love you too much' etc.

There will always be people that need prostitutes. Men don't bitch about it in the West, because they wouldn't DREAM of taking one as a g/f - let alone as a wife!

I'd say IMO the main problem is when the people whom their saying they "love you" to, etc, believe all they say and fall hook line and sinker for thier charms and become a walking ATM..., that's the way of the world, some people are naive and gullible when looking for the love of their lives.

Prostitution IMO is all about supply and demand, some men might not choose a prostitute to become a wife or GF in the west, though some do, infact some women become prostitutes in the west after their married...FACT..

By the way F1, I sense and suspect by your post that you have a dislike of men who come to asia and take a wife or GF who has been a prostitute.

[F1fanatic]

Nothing wrong with prostitution at all. It's all the idiots who bitch about it who make it wrong.

Have to agree. As long as ITS MADE V CLEAR THAT THEY'RE A PROSTITUTE and providing a service for money - there's no problem.

The problem arises when they pretend they 'love' you.... You're so 'hansum', 'love you too much' etc.

There will always be people that need prostitutes. Men don't bitch about it in the West, because they wouldn't DREAM of taking one as a g/f - let alone as a wife!

I'd say IMO the main problem is when the people whom their saying they "love you" to, etc, believe all they say and fall hook line and sinker for thier charms and become a walking ATM..., that's the way of the world, some people are naive and gullible when looking for the love of their lives.

Prostitution IMO is all about supply and demand, some men might not choose a prostitute to become a wife or GF in the west, though some do, infact some women become prostitutes in the west after their married...FACT..

By the way F1, I sense and suspect by your post that you have a dislike of men who come to asia and take a wife or GF who has been a prostitute.

Are you being serious??

How many men do you know in the West that have taken a prostitute as a wife (or g/f)????

Its considered way beyond social acceptance!

Yes, I do have a problem with men who are stupid enough to believe that their prostitute loves them (not their money, or a way of life they could previously only dream about).

[Ulysses G.]

One problem is - in a limited number of relationships - the "prostitute" makes an excellent wife.

[MB1]

F1, yes I'm being very serious, many women in the west are prostitutes whilst married, and some did not become prostitutes until after being married...FACT....And yes I have known people whom I'm talking about.

[DLock]

I don't frequent prostitutes, but I must admit, i do enjoy a good story where the man loses everything he owns to one.

I don't like lawyers much either.

[sokal]

So what was she getting out it other than physical satisfaction?

And yes, it is simple misogyny to assume that women are somehow incapable of enjoying the same biological urges as men.

I did not say that women are incapable of enjoying sex. I am just saying that women know that men need sex more then they do so they use that to their advantage. And there is nothing wrong with that.

No, but you did write that no women just want sex. Pretty much the same thing.

Be-that-as-it-may. As I wrote before, we live in alternate universes where the only portal is here on TV. Yours is a much more pessimistic and angry universe than mine, as I interpret it. And I much prefer mine, thank you very much.

And I just think it is pretty sad that you have seemingly never met a lusty woman. I love all women, but I can really appreciate what the lusty woman can bring to the table.

I am in no way going to convince you that women are normal human beings. So I am not going to try and am pretty much done with this train of posts.

Women do not have to just want sex and 99% of them are smart enough to know this. They can demand more then just sex even if they enjoy it, because they know that men want sex that much more then they do.

[sokal]

If you look back at the original post, the OP wrote about marriage 'you pay once for a lifetime of sex' ..... No! Marriage doesn't work like that, and it's one of the main reasons for the continued existance of prostitution sadly. My view is that ideally, paying another consenting adult for sex isn't wrong, and all other circumstances involving minors, forced victims, drug/alcohol/gambling dependencies, trafficking, 3rd party profit etc is wrong. I have paid for sex and I viewed it as a necessary evil - I'd rather women slept with me for free as I'm sure they'd rather I gave them money for no reason. Logically, either senario is highly unlikely to ever happen, isn't it? Morally and ethically I felt the same, I can't 'take matters into my own hands' forever while realising that in paying, I was perpetuating cycles of misery and suffering on some levels.while releasing my own temporarily.

You gave no reasons why you thought marriage doesnt not work like that.

[sokal]

Well there's sex and then there's good sex.

Good sex can't be bought basically so there you go.

Flame away

I guess then no good sex exists because women are not all sluts running around giving it away without even a dinner or a night out at the movies.

[sokal]

I don't frequent prostitutes, but I must admit, i do enjoy a good story where the man loses everything he owns to one.

I don't like lawyers much either.

Allot more men lose everything to women in the west then they do to so called prostitutes in the east.

That is where the theory of legalized prostitution comes in (marriage)

Another relevant fact is that 80% of the divorces in the west are the result of financial difficulty.

[bonobo]

Do you really think that a Thai laborer, for example, suddenly feels horny and wants release, so he grabs the nearest women and rapes her?

Yes, that's actually the way things worked before our civilization has started. In parts of Africa without a functioning legal system, it is not unknown.

But 99% of Thai laborers would certainly not consider anything like that. But some do despite the harsh punishments, and as more men are deprived of sex, as higher the rape rate.

And regarding the "studies" of power and anger.... these are politically motivated and are basically to blame men in general. Not worth the paper they are written on. Ideology of 1970 ff.

All I can write here is simply "Wow!"

I would sure like to see anything which backs up your allegations.  Unlike other things such as politics or global warming, I wasn't even aware that there was any controversy over this by anyone with any cognizant ability.

[bonobo]

 

Finally, I agree with Ian, that rape has NOTHING to do with the OP anyway...

Maybe this thread could be split by moderators. Or would one of them have a problem with the fact that Rape has nothing to do with Thailand and as such that whole part of this thread could be chopped. Not meaning to tread on any toes just a suggestion as the bulk of this thread is pretty off topic. And its and interesting topic.

The fact that this thread has shifted towards the rape aspect is fine.  Threads go where they will, and the rape aspect was brought up in connotation with the initial subject matter.

However, it really is not Thai-related.  But posters, although differing in views, have kept it pretty civil.  This thread may get closed due to the Thai aspect, but be-that-as-it-may.

[MB1]

I don't frequent prostitutes, but I must admit, i do enjoy a good story where the man loses everything he owns to one.

I don't like lawyers much either.

Allot more men lose everything to women in the west then they do to so called prostitutes in the east.

That is where the theory of legalized prostitution comes in (marriage)

Another relevant fact is that 80% of the divorces in the west are the result of financial difficulty.

If you'd had said that 80% of western divorces are the result of "irreconcilable differences" then I might have believed you.

There are many reasons why marriages fail and people divorce, arguments and conflicts, incompatability,physical abuse, sexual abuse, alcholism and the list go's on but to say 80% of western divorces are the result of financial difficulty I don't agree with, statistics show that there are many reasons why people divorce, and "infidelity" is a big one, and to keep on topic I'd say that plenty of women have divorced husbands because they went with a prostitute.

Edited July 14, 2010 by MB1

[MB1]

 

Finally, I agree with Ian, that rape has NOTHING to do with the OP anyway...

Maybe this thread could be split by moderators. Or would one of them have a problem with the fact that Rape has nothing to do with Thailand and as such that whole part of this thread could be chopped. Not meaning to tread on any toes just a suggestion as the bulk of this thread is pretty off topic. And its and interesting topic.

The fact that this thread has shifted towards the rape aspect is fine.  Threads go where they will, and the rape aspect was brought up in connotation with the initial subject matter.

However, it really is not Thai-related.  But posters, although differing in views, have kept it pretty civil.  This thread may get closed due to the Thai aspect, but be-that-as-it-may.

Nah, please don't close it, infact pretty pretty pretty please, as you said it's been civil, quite amusing in parts but has brought out some interesting facts and peoples view points, also after weeks of political thread chaos it's good to have a thread to be able to have a good debate in without it being political..TA.

[Jingthing]

Yeah, lets drop the rape part of it ...

I also think a lot of people would disagree with the assertion that a discussion about the morality of prostitution is not Thai related ...

[IanForbes]

The long term consequences of engaging in prostitution are over overwhelmingly negative. I wouldn't criticize those who engage but I do think that they should face the reality of it (most in this thread don't seem to).

The long term consequences for which party... the man or the woman? Using prostitutes has little or no affect on the man... other than public distain for the practise. For the woman it can have good or bad results. I've known quite a few former prostitutes who greatly improved their lives by a few years working in the trade. Very few women stay in the trade longer than 5 or 6 years, and probably 10 years at the most. After that they've usually met someone and settle down somewhere. As per usual, the more attractive gals get more attention and are more likely to meet someone they are willing to stay with in some sort of marriage. The people I associate with hold no stigma to the women who were former hookers. It's only the bigoted, self righteous people who hold others in distain for what they did in their past. The smart gals save their money and invest it in property for themselves and their family.

All of us adjust to our surroundings. The wealthy and attractive people have more choices in life. Those not so fortunate settle for second or third best. It a man is short, fat and ugly then he better have a lot of money or he isn't going to wind up with the beauty queen. Same goes for the girls. If she's not a beauty then she better have a good brain and the smarts to take care of herself. There are many homely, plain looking women in the prostitution trade, but they don't get much action and they have to settle for the ugly guys... who also can't get the pretty gals. I know a lot of pretty hookers and I've seen them turn away from some men. And, they DO talk among themselves about who is nice and who isn't.

I've helped several young women stay out of the sex trade for the one reason that it's usually a dead end for those that can't handle it properly. Once they''ve been in the trade, then most Thai men won't have anything to do with them on anything but a professional level. There only option of meeting a man after they've been in the trade is with one of the clients. And, there aren't that many nice clients available. Prostitution WILL harden a woman emotionally and scar her feelings for others. But, that happens to all of us anyway even if we try to live like a saint. Most of us learn from the school of hard knocks.

[sokal]

I don't frequent prostitutes, but I must admit, i do enjoy a good story where the man loses everything he owns to one.

I don't like lawyers much either.

Allot more men lose everything to women in the west then they do to so called prostitutes in the east.

That is where the theory of legalized prostitution comes in (marriage)

Another relevant fact is that 80% of the divorces in the west are the result of financial difficulty.

If you'd had said that 80% of western divorces are the result of "irreconcilable differences" then I might have believed you.

There are many reasons why marriages fail and people divorce, arguments and conflicts, incompatability,physical abuse, sexual abuse, alcholism and the list go's on but to say 80% of western divorces are the result of financial difficulty I don't agree with, statistics show that there are many reasons why people divorce, and "infidelity" is a big one, and to keep on topic I'd say that plenty of women have divorced husbands because they went with a prostitute.

And why did those guys go with prostitutes ? Probably because their female partners where not holding up their end of the bargain in bed.

I might add that if the guy won the lottery the day before, I am sure the woman would not have a problem holding up her end of the bargain the next night.

Edited July 14, 2010 by sokal

[IanForbes]

If you'd had said that 80% of western divorces are the result of "irreconcilable differences" then I might have believed you.

There are many reasons why marriages fail and people divorce, arguments and conflicts, incompatability,physical abuse, sexual abuse, alcholism and the list go's on but to say 80% of western divorces are the result of financial difficulty I don't agree with, statistics show that there are many reasons why people divorce, and "infidelity" is a big one, and to keep on topic I'd say that plenty of women have divorced husbands because they went with a prostitute.

Divorce and its causes is an entirely different matter, but could be tied in with prostitution if only for the fact that men are not getting what they want from their wives... and, there are reasons for that happening.

There are hundreds of reasons why divorces occur, but I'd wager a guess that most are caused by boredom with the spouse, or stress from an unforseen event. It's easy to say I'm going to stay with my spouse forever, but that can be taken out of your hands if the spouse suddenly changes their mind at a future date. That often occurs when something happens to change the relationship... such as... there is a death in the family and one of the spouses can't handle it, or there are serious health issues that drastically change the relationship, or the main income earner loses their job, or one of the spouses has an affair, or one of many other life changing events.Nobody can say for certain how they will react to a tragedy or a life changing event until it happens. It's easy to be smug and self righteous until something nasty happens to you.

[GrahamF]

And why did those guys go with prostitutes ? Probably because their female partners where not holding up their end of the bargain in bed.

I might add that if the guy won the lottery the day before, I am sure the woman would not have a problem holding up her end of the bargain the next night.

You silly rabbit!!!! She'd probably file for divorce the next day and take half.

[GuestHouse]

The long term consequences for which party... the man or the woman? Using prostitutes has little or no affect on the man... other than public distain for the practise.

I'd disagree, I think there are long term psychological impacts on men who use prostitutes, particularly expats and sex tourists here in Thailand.

I personally know a number of men who came to Thailand to work here, got involved with a string of prostitutes and left bitter, cynical and unable to establish relationships with women who are not prostitutes.

One need only read some of the attitudes being expressed in this thread for examples of how men who use prostitutes develop a set of rather disturbing attitudes towards women.

You might of course argue these attitudes were already held in men who came to Thailand for the sex industry (as sextourists and perhaps remained as sexpats ) but I'd say even in their case the use of prostitutes reinforces the attitudes we read above.

There are a number of examples here of people completely switching off their critical thought in order to justify their views on prostitution and male/female relationships - At least one guy who clearly needs help.

I think these are examples of exactly the kind of negative impacts the use of prostitutes can have on the psychology of men who use them.

[sarahsbloke]

Nothing wrong with prostitution at all. It's all the idiots who bitch about it who make it wrong.

Have to agree. As long as ITS MADE V CLEAR THAT THEY'RE A PROSTITUTE and providing a service for money - there's no problem.

The problem arises when they pretend they 'love' you.... You're so 'hansum', 'love you too much' etc.

There will always be people that need prostitutes. Men don't bitch about it in the West, because they wouldn't DREAM of taking one as a g/f - let alone as a wife!

I'd say IMO the main problem is when the people whom their saying they "love you" to, etc, believe all they say and fall hook line and sinker for thier charms and become a walking ATM..., that's the way of the world, some people are naive and gullible when looking for the love of their lives.

Prostitution IMO is all about supply and demand, some men might not choose a prostitute to become a wife or GF in the west, though some do, infact some women become prostitutes in the west after their married...FACT..

By the way F1, I sense and suspect by your post that you have a dislike of men who come to asia and take a wife or GF who has been a prostitute.

Are you being serious??

How many men do you know in the West that have taken a prostitute as a wife (or g/f)????

Its considered way beyond social acceptance!

Yes, I do have a problem with men who are stupid enough to believe that their prostitute loves them (not their money, or a way of life they could previously only dream about).

In the western world (I'm making assumptions, never paid for sex there with cash upfront) prostitutes of the get them in, get them done, get them out variety while turning their heads to one side and having the 'get it over with' attitude had no attraction for me at all, in fact they would appear to be pretty much the same as my former UK wife .... so no desire to indulge.

In Thailand this was entirely different, 'I love you so much', exactly what I was looking for, a woman who made some pretense of loving me and wanting to be in bed with me. Do I care if it is real or not, not at all, I'm happy with the fantasy .........

fantasy relationship in Thailand with prostitute who 'love me cos I'm hansum man' = better than 'real' relationship marriage with cold wife in the UK

Why do you think we believe it?

It's just a part of the fantasy.

[Ulysses G.]

I think there are long term psychological impacts on men who use prostitutes

I concur. If they are sensible, they do away with being lonely and many are unusually content.

It is usually men who don't employ sex workers who are miserable.

Edited July 14, 2010 by Ulysses G.

[Shotime]

"Very few, if any women experience orgasm."

That sounds like a personal problem. I'll assume you're not familiar with the phrase "flying the kite." I can't remember who I first heard this from, but it is one of the reasons I even come on here. Too funny.

[leemac]

I haven't read all posts here, but I feel qualified to comment based on the couple of dozen I have read.

Before I do that, I'll point out that I'm not tall, not build like a body builder but slim to medium, and I consider myself above average in looks- not out of vanity or narcissism, just because I have eyes and and have done very well with the ladies in my younger years- better than almost any other guy I have met.

I have had a lot of sex without paying for it. The number or women is in the double figured dozens, I reckon. I just got lucky with looks and learned how, when, where, and who to get it from.

As a result, I became very knowledgeable and understanding of both men's and womens emotions, both with sex and with love.

There isn't that much difference really- both parties get horny and like to bang. Too much of it desensitises you and can corrupt your soul, too little can do the same, and a balanced amount is good for mind, body, and soul.

Marriage isn't prostitution. The people who say so are usually those who've been stung by nasty break-ups and have had to pay alimony/child support, so they are understandably bitter.

Marriage is for love. It used to be for convenience, but nowadays it's a love, commitment and devotion ceremony. Prostitution is a one off deal- one party needs cash, the other party wants sexual gratification, they trade- cash for a service. No love, commitment, or devotion is involved. Sure, it can cost, but so can being single and not having someone to entertain you cheaply, paying for sex, drinking more, and sharing accommodation, meals, chores etc that you otherwise might pay more for.

Most women can and do orgasm. In my entire sexual history, only a few women have never been able to orgasm at all. If most of yours aren't able to, either you're very unlucky or (more likely) not doing it right. then again, if you only do it with "working girls", they are so desensitised to sex that you're pushing shit uphill to try to get them off. I only succeeded with one bar girl at this, and only when she had a hangover (which made her mega-horny!).

Some women can get off in minutes, others only orgasm a handful of times in their life. It's like men- some last minutes, some (like me) take a while (usually 20-40 minutes, up to an hour or more sometimes), most are in the middle I think. Society says men should last longer, but trust me, getting told to stop before you're done is not fun. It's just like everyone saying women with big tits are better. They are good to look at, sometimes, but I prefer small, sensitive and firm/perky, to big, insensitive and floppy/squishy. Everyone's different and everyone has different tastes.

Now I didn't pay for sex until I was in my early 30's, but I did buy the odd girl a coffee, dinner, drinks etc to get it. They didn't usually try to "hold" me after one shag, unless they were really inexperienced or we had been dating for a long while beforehand (ie: more than 3-4 dates).

Some just wanted sex. At one stage when I was 21, I broke up with a Korean girl who wanted to marry for residency. She married an older Korean resident in my country, then came over at random hours demanding sex. It was always kinky, rough, dirty sex, and I LOVED it! Another time in my early 20's, maybe 3 years later, I was seeing three girls at once, on and off. One was engaged to a man overseas and wanted to have her affair in my country before settling into married life. Another was planning to get engaged and married soon, again to a man back home, and wanted to try out white guys first. The third was chasing someone who she loved, but he wasn't interested. She still had sexual desires though, and I got to fulfil them for her.

This alone shows us that women are NOT using sex "to get something", and they DO have sexual desires and CAN separate love and sex, thesame as men do.

We are different, but not as much as everyone seems to think.