Boi - Non-B Visa

[fraksken]

Hello,

I'm trying to set up a company in Phuket, but I may need some guidlines.

I'm a Belgian citizen, aged 22 yrs. I'd like to startup a co. ltd. company under the BOI privilege. However, at the moment I'm under the TR visa. I'll supposedly need a non-IB or non-B. The one stop service for workpermits and visa in Bangkok should be able to supply me the visa. But what papers do I need?

I quote out of the Business Guide to Thailand (supplied by the BOI office):

In respinse to feedback from investors, the BOI coordinated the establishment of a One-Stop Service Center for Visa and Work Permits, through joint cooperation with the Immigration bureau and the Ministry of Labor, the center can process applications or renewals of visas and work permits within 3 hours, upon receipt of proper and complete documentation.

In addition, the center handles other transactions, including the issuance of multiple reentry stamps, changes in class of visa (to non-immigrant from tourist or transit), and payment of fines.

How can I make up papers of employment (to obtain the non-b visa) if the company has not been made yet?

I've been told to setup the company with my TR visa, when the company has been made, then go and get the non-b visa and apply for the job. Can this be done? or is this false information.

After getting the BOI approval, I need to go back to Phuket to start the company:

- Register the Company with 3 promoters at the MOC. Pay 5000 Baht

- Apply for and obtain TAX ID & VAT certificate from the rev. dept. Pay 500 Baht

- File all documents to the registrar of the dept. of Business Development.

- Go back to BKK to get non-B?

Does anybody has an idea how long each step takes?

On a worst case scenario note: What does it cost to stop a company? (in case of bankrupt or things like that. Only worst case...)

Thanks in Advance

[PoorSucker]

A little bit optimistic to trying to get BOI approval for a start up company.

Most important restriction, is the requirement of selling and administrative

expenses of more than THB 10 Million per year.

I would recommend to get a specialized law firm to help you with your BOI application.

[Soutpeel]

Suppose the first question is ?......do you qualify for BOI ? as generally this is in place for large companies setting up factories etc, ie investing "significant" amounts of cash...

If you are setting up a small Ltd company, you may not qualify.

If you qualify, then they will help with the other stuff...ie WP etc. My belief in reading your post is that you are trying to set up a small company and most likely would not qualify for BOI. All companies set up by expats in Thailand do not automatically qualify for BOI

Give more detail and people may be able to advise better

[fraksken]

According to BOI personell, I do qualify for the BOI privilege, which is very simple: invest 1m ThB in 3 years time AND (in this special case) develop software.

@Poorsucker: I don't know where you get that 10m thb a year, but it's not correct.

@Soutpeel: it is not if you go for software engineering. 1mThB investment over span of 3 years.

[mausplan]

As others have suggested it would seem you need to look into this further, It would be a good idea to get some qualified advice from a couple of sources to save you time and money. You can start your company but if you want to work in it the company needs to show 2.0 million Baht working capital to secure a WP for you. You need a minimum ratio of Thai staff to you, nominally 4:1. Officers from immigration and the revenue department do visit now-days at short notice to verify the company is real and doing what the application said it will do. These inspections has happened to me twice in the last three years in two different provinces.

None of this is overly difficult but the 5 P's do very much apply - Prior Preparation Prevents Poor Performance.

[keeniau96]

All you gents talking about the higher capitalization and the 4:1 Thai:fareng are apparently unaware of the special software project now available at the BOI. It is indeed as Fraksken writes. The BOI had a seminar on that here in Phuket about 3 weeks ago and some of the members of our local computer group are filing for the program.

@ Fraksken, you would to well to come to our next meeting at Woody's near Chalong circle. Sunday at 10AM; look in the Phuket Gazette meeting page for info.

[fraksken]

Dear keeniau96,

Thanks for your useful answer. The only one. I was planning on being in BKK already on Sunday, but I might make an exception.

On the rest of the answers:

Thanks for replying, I appreciate your gestures, though I would advice you to look into the BOI law (www.boi.go.th they have guides and info there). BOI overrules a lot of the normal Thai commercial laws, for example the 4:1 Thai - Farang law, the 2m ThB law, the corporate tax law, ... (No, I won't pay any corp. tax, I need just to invest 1m ThB in 3 years and I don't need any employees. I can hire as much farang as I want though. On top of this, I don't pay for import.)

Asking me to come to your lawyer firm is also out of the question, cause I'm very confident that I can do this without any overpriced help that is otherwise freely distributed by the thai government.

The main issue here is how I can obtain the NON-B or NON-IB visa, and when I should obtain it.

- Do I need to get it before I apply BOI and co.tld. If so, what papers do I need and where can I get them?

- Can I wait and apply after I founded the co.ltd. with my TR visa?

Best regards

Edited July 14, 2010 by fraksken

[jazzbo]

... also see conditions as specified by BOI in that such investments are under auspices and specifications of SIPA at 5.8:

http://www.boi.go.th...ut/section5.pdf

[Soutpeel]

According to BOI personell, I do qualify for the BOI privilege, which is very simple: invest 1m ThB in 3 years time AND (in this special case) develop software.

@Poorsucker: I don't know where you get that 10m thb a year, but it's not correct.

@Soutpeel: it is not if you go for software engineering. 1mThB investment over span of 3 years.

Well it appears you have all the answers, so why ask on TV, if you qualify for BOI go and ask them....thats what they are there for...

[fraksken]

@SoutPeel: You seem to miss the question:

The main issue here is how I can obtain the NON-B or NON-IB visa, and when I should obtain it.

- Do I need to get it before I apply BOI and co.tld. If so, what papers do I need and where can I get them?

- Can I wait and apply after I founded the co.ltd. with my TR visa?

[jazzbo]

There is a listing of all Category 5.8 Software approvals (listed by date of approval) at:

http://www.boi.go.th/english/project_approval.asp

[monty]

Just to answer you actual visa related questions:

You can perfectly establish your company (BOI sponsored or otherwise) while on a tourist visa.

Once you have established the company, the company can then proceed with the application of your work permit (even if on a tourist visa). Note that Thai staff of your new company will have to put in your application, you are not allowed to do anything on behalf of your company until you hold your work permit!

Once your work permit has been approved you will receive a WP3 form (but not yet the actual work permit!). With this form and the paperwork of your company, you can get a non immigrant B visa in any of the neighboring countries.

When you return, the labor department can then proceed with issuing you your work permit.

The above is the standard procedure for non BOI sponsored companies. In your case, being BOI sponsored, it is very well possible that the one-stop service center can change your tourist status to non immigrant status without you leaving the country.

For non BOI sponsored companies the catch 22 situation is in the fact that immigration will only change your status to non immigrant if you qualify for a 1 year extension, but you only qualify if you hold a valid work permit (not just the wp3 form), and labor will not issue you one unless you hold non immigrant status!

I'm pretty sure BOI can smooth this process over, so ask them, and in case they cannot do this, you'll have to follow the above procedure!

[jazzbo]

In reviewing the BOI 5.8 approval lists as above, there does not seem to be too many start-ups... if any... unless they are newly formed Thai subsidiaries of existing foreign companies. YMMV.

"After getting the BOI approval, I need to go back to Phuket to start the company" ...???

Edited July 15, 2010 by jazzbo

[fraksken]

Thanks Monty, Most helpful post.

Biggest problem will be that ... I won't have any Thai staff, so maybe I might need to obtain a O visa again... Or maybe the BOI can do something for me. I'll check when I'm in BKK.

@Jazzbo ... you've written 3 comments, all 3 were hardly relevant. Clearly a BOI are for people who know about it and want to save some money. There are a lot of companies who could get covered by the BOI status, but they just don't know it.

[jazzbo]

all 3 were hardly relevant

As all 3 posts you reference all have to do with the BOI approval process for 5.8 software companies and come from the BOI and SIPA websites -- and a perusal of those companies that have in fact received BOI approval -- I do not see how they can possibly be MORE relevant...

[fraksken]

I do not see how they can possibly be MORE relevant...

because you did not notice the question, as Monty did.

[jazzbo]

... unless you can receive approval from both BOI and SIPA, everything else is moot.

[monty]

Thanks Monty, Most helpful post.

Biggest problem will be that ... I won't have any Thai staff, so maybe I might need to obtain a O visa again... Or maybe the BOI can do something for me. I'll check when I'm in BKK.

@Jazzbo ... you've written 3 comments, all 3 were hardly relevant. Clearly a BOI are for people who know about it and want to save some money. There are a lot of companies who could get covered by the BOI status, but they just don't know it.

It does not really matter what visa you hold! You most likely will not be able to obtain a non immigrant visa before you applied for a WP (and have the WP3 form).

Remember, for the employee to successfully apply for a work permit, he needs paperwork signed by the director of the company employing him. If you are the director of said company, you cannot sign those papers unless you hold a valid work permit!

There are a few precedents, where a foreigner who is listed as shareholder and director in a company, applies for his own work permit, which then is refused by the labor department based on said foreigner working for the company without work permit (the signing of the company paperwork in the function of director).

In non-boi sponsored companies, you usually make a Thai person (not necessarily a shareholder) director of the company just for the purpose of applying for your work permit (and whatever else needs to get signed initially). Once you hold your work permit, the company can be updated having you as director, and if so wished the Thai person can be removed as director.

Again, it might be different when BOI sponsored, there is a fair chance that they will have one of their officers act a director for your company during the initial formation, and he/she can sign for your WP application. Which again can be done while you are here on a tourist visa.

[jazzbo]

If one reads the BOI literature, one of the biggest incentives for a foreign company to establish a BOI / SIPA approved company is the availability of skilled Thai software personnel...

Using Thai software programmers, 1st of Reuter's 10 global offices to achieve CMM-5 certificate -- "Thai software programmers can compete with any in the world."

–Ron Dale, Head of Asian Development, Reuters

Contrast this with: Biggest problem will be that ... I won't have any Thai staff...

[fraksken]

Aha, BOI is very big on bringing foreign specialists to Thailand, that's why there is no 4:1 ratio. I do not intend to hire staff if I don't need to, however, the business plan will see to employ up to 30 staff over the course of the first 3 years.

[jazzbo]

Once you submit your plan and it is jointly approved by BOI and SIPA you are off to the races... I have never said anything different...... Very few of the approved plans have been pure start-ups but certainly that is always possible... best of luck to you

... your first post however said "After getting the BOI approval..." as if that was some foregone conclusion.

Edited July 15, 2010 by jazzbo

[RAZZELL]

Once you submit your plan and it is jointly approved by BOI and SIPA you are off to the races... I have never said anything different...... Very few of the approved plans have been pure start-ups but certainly that is always possible... best of luck to you

... your first post however said "After getting the BOI approval..." as if that was some foregone conclusion.

Very interesting topic...I wish I knew as much as the 22 year-old OP

RAZZ

[lordnedox]

Hi fraksken,

me and my partners have just setup a 100% Foreign owned Thai company (3 shareholders, all foreigners). Our business is software development. We have 1 Million bath registered capital.

First of all, I want tell you it took more than 1 year to setup the company.

- preparing a good business plan

- find a good lawyer (not so easy)

- preparing the BOI application form (this can take more than 1 month, as it has to be validated more time by the BOI before you formally submit it)

- Submit the application form and wait for approval (it took 60 days)

- Setup the company (you need at least 3 shareholders, excluding legal entities)

- Open the bank account and transfer the funds

- Give all the documentation to the BOI again

- Get the certificate (approx 10-30 days)

- Get a Foreign business certificate (not the license, approx 30 days), i don't know if u need if you are american

And then you can apply for visa and work permit and start working.

Even it's not written, the most important thing is that you will hire Thai staff and train them. The more you hire, the more chances you have. To train Thai staff, you should also have some kind of working background.

Also you will need to prove what you state in the application every 6 months/1 years.

The whole process costed us approx. 120.000 bath, and it's not yet finished.

I believe that you think you just need to buy a PC, put 1 M Bath in a bank, and that's all, you can stay in BKK forever with your gf forever. It's NOT so easy, otherwise everyone would do that.

You should try other ways (IF there are), or just forget about that. Anyway I think it's pretty hard to do everything under a single-entry tourist visa.

Good luck

[PoorSucker]

Thanks LordNedox.

Very good post.

[jazzbo]

Kuhn L. -- 'Just noticed your post. Good work ... and further Good Luck

[farrol]

Hi lordnedox ,

thanks for this useful posting. I am just going through this procedure to get a BOI sponsored company going.

May I ask how did you get around the chicken-and-egg problem of getting Non-B visa and work permit as a shareholder who is going to be director.

As monty was saying:

There are a few precedents, where a foreigner who is listed as shareholder and director in a company, applies for his own work permit, which then is refused by the labor department based on said foreigner working for the company without work permit (the signing of the company paperwork in the function of director).

Any way around this dilemma?

When we applied at the BOI they told us it would be possible to change tourist visa into non-B without leaving Thailand, but they didn't elaborate how to exactly get it done.

Cheers

Farrol

[lordnedox]

Hi lordnedox ,

thanks for this useful posting. I am just going through this procedure to get a BOI sponsored company going.

May I ask how did you get around the chicken-and-egg problem of getting Non-B visa and work permit as a shareholder who is going to be director.

As monty was saying:

There are a few precedents, where a foreigner who is listed as shareholder and director in a company, applies for his own work permit, which then is refused by the labor department based on said foreigner working for the company without work permit (the signing of the company paperwork in the function of director).

Any way around this dilemma?

When we applied at the BOI they told us it would be possible to change tourist visa into non-B without leaving Thailand, but they didn't elaborate how to exactly get it done.

Cheers

Farrol

Let me tell you, when you enquire internet or even the Thai government, don't trust everything you read/hear and always get at least 2 opinions.

I cannot answer your specific question, as we have our lawyer to take care of everything ,we're not even in Thailand. I think it's almost impossible to do everything without a lawyer office.

I got my non-B visa (90 days) very easly, you just need to follow the instructions given by your embassy-consulate (the most important documents are the company setup documents and the letter from the company granting for you).

I don't understand if you already setup the company, got the BOI certificate, got the FBC, or you're still in the planning phase. If you could be more specific i could help you better.

For the tourist VISA to Non-B Visa, yes it's true you can convert it, but it just makes no sense, The process is already very complicated and you don't want add more hassles to it.

Just to give you an example of "Beautiful Thailand":

- To open the company you need a bank account

- Ask most of the banks, they will say you need a work permit to open a bank account

- So how can u get a work permit without the company?

- Just went through 4-5 different banks (sometimes the same bank/different office has different policies) and found one which let me open the account.

Never give up!

[farrol]

Thanks,

I don't understand if you already setup the company, got the BOI certificate, got the FBC, or you're still in the planning phase. If you could be more specific i could help you better.

For the tourist VISA to Non-B Visa, yes it's true you can convert it, but it just makes no sense, The process is already very complicated and you don't want add more hassles to it.

We have got the BOI approval already, and the Ltd. has just been set up, tax and vat IDs are being processed now.

Then I believe we have all necessary documents to get the BOI certificate.

For me it makes sense to convert tourist visa to non-B because I need to travel to Thailand before all company paperwork is done.

That's why I would like to get tourist visa converted to non-B to avoid another trip abroad. The BOI officer we were dealing with told us that wouldn't be a problem, I just don't know exactly where and how I can get it done.

Cheers, Farrol.

[lordnedox]

You should be able to do it at the OSOS (One stop one service center), your BOI officer should confirm it.