PM Abhisit Vows To Defend Thailand's Rights

[RedNIvar]

Very good reading. very comprehensive. Unfortunately it is in Thai Perhaps google translate may help. . http://www.manager.c...D=9530000098345

Poor Child. First she states: The ICJ ruling is not fair, said the PAD. I'm assuming, although I could be wrong, that she agrees with PAD and that statement. Now she's putting links to The Manager, which is owned and run by Sondhi of PAD. She apparently has no idea that The Manager is a totally and completely biased media outlet that reflects the views and beliefs of Sondhi and PAD, with very little truth in it.

I wonder if she, and others, realize that should PAD somehow come to power, that they would set Thailand backwards about 100 years. Sondhi has stated, more than once, and on national television and in the other news media that the "rural poor are too stupid to vote". Now, it that isn't a racist comment about his own countrymen and women, then I don't know what is. Does she realize that PAD wants to do away with Parliament as it is now and replace it with one which is 70% appointed, and only 30% elected? The 70% appointed would be appointed by the elite, the military and the academics, while the 30% that is elected would only be voted on by the elite, the military and the academics. Anyone who does not hold at least a Bachelor's Degree would NOT be allowed to vote and have no say so in who runs the country.

People's Alliance for Democracy is more a case of Politburo AGAINST Democracy, and more Fascist than Democratic in nature. Their favorite trick is to try and stir up "Nationalism" by mixing facts and fiction, and THEIR version of the truth in an effort to further their own goals, which have absolutely NOTHING to do, or benefit, the average Thai.

I apologize to the monitors for getting somewhat "off topic", and hope they will forgive me.

BTW, she lists herself in her profile as being of the Male gender. Explains the confusion, I guess.

[zthyadat]

3 provinces in Cambodia is actually Thailand.

The half of Thailand is formerly a part of the Khmer Empire.And the second belongs to Malayans. The real Thailand is hidden somewhere at Lanna (which is, of course, formerly a part of Chinese Empire and built by Chinese escaped from Genghiz Khan's ords invading from the north).Read your own histtory, kiddo. And don't post stupidity.

Including Angkor Wat.

Built by who?

Hasn't everyone worked out by now that Piengrudee is a troll? And it isn't a pretty young girl, but obviously a bloke, and probably considerably older.

But while I'm here... Yes Piengrudee, and three provinces of southern Thailand belong to Malaysia.

[mazeltov]

3 provinces in Cambodia is actually Thailand.

The half of Thailand is formerly a part of the Khmer Empire.And the second belongs to Malayans. The real Thailand is hidden somewhere at Lanna (which is, of course, formerly a part of Chinese Empire and built by Chinese escaped from Genghiz Khan's ords invading from the north).Read your own histtory, kiddo. And don't post stupidity.

Including Angkor Wat.

You're a prime example of the Thai Education System, especially in the area of History, which is more about fantasy than actual fact. The Khmer Empire existed LONG before Siam even came into being, and it included MOST of what is now Thailand. Ankor Wat and Preah Vihear are both HINDU temples, NOT Buddhist, and were built by the Khmer. After the breakup of the Khmer Empire, then the Lanna Kingdom came into being, with the original capital in Chiang Rai, but later moved to Chiang Mai by King Mengrai in 1291, with the wall around the city being completed in 1296. By the way, do you even know what "Lanna" means? Did they actually teach you in school? In case they didn't, it means "Land of a Million Rice Fields".

As for your comment about the 3 provinces in Cambodia belonging to Thailand, after the joining of the Siam and Lanna kingdoms, Thailand went on a mission of conquest to conquer everyone they could. They invaded what was left of the Khmer Empire, which is now Cambodia, as well as Lao, and even parts of Vietnam. But just like the Burmese couldn't hold on to Chiang Mai and other parts of what is now Thailand, Thailand couldn't hold on to what they had conquered, and were gradually forced to give it up, mainly by the French, who began to take control of most of South East Asia.

They eventually signed a treaty with the French that gave up ALL the land they had conquered EAST of the Mekong River, which included Cambodia and Lao. So, they took, by war, land that didn't belong to them, but then had to give it back when a "Bigger Bully" (the French) came on the scene. So, those three provinces never really belong to them in the first place.

Again, try doing so research before you make comments that reflect your lack of knowledge and the ineffectual Thai Education System.

My bet is on the 'kid'. That poster behind the young gal avatar seems to be well versed in the story telling of the different histories and calculate exactly what to write to trigger your predictable replies.

Your schoolmaster approach hints that yourselves just got a glimpse on the basics of 'history' how its taught in the compulsory education system or distributed as entertainment product on history channels. That isn't History with the capital letter and in the end not much different from histories and the construction of the past your can hear in Thai schools.

Your way of thought and interpretation of histories, these auxiliary constructs to explain the past or much more legitimate the 'present' are pretty much 19th century. 'history' as epic narratives to claim ancestry to heroes of the past, filled up with faux lineage and fictional continuity and much more story telling to legitimate the then young national states.

My guess is also that your talents in cultural studies came to the conclusion that you think Thai humour always come with a boing sound, so that those who visited only inferior Thai schools will know at what point they have to laugh.

In the end it is you who don't get the jokes.

[zthyadat]

<br />

<br />Emerald Buddah was stolen from Laos? Better start a new forum.<br />

<br /><br />Yes, dear one, it was stolen from Ankor Wat. Go here and read about it. <a href='http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emerald_Buddha' class='bbc_url' title='External link' rel='nofollow external'>http://en.wikipedia..../Emerald_Buddha</a><br />

<br /><br /><br />

According to the legend, the Emerald Buddha was created in India in 43 BC

And according to Science, it is not emerald, but green jasper...

[Piengrudee]

If The Manager, which is owned and run by Sondhi of PAD, is a totally and completely biased media outlet that reflects the views and beliefs of Sondhi and PAD, with very little truth in it. WHY IS IT NOT BANNED?

[whybother]

If The Manager, which is owned and run by Sondhi of PAD, is a totally and completely biased media outlet that reflects the views and beliefs of Sondhi and PAD, with very little truth in it. WHY IS IT NOT BANNED?

Does anything on it incite people to commit violence and destruction?

[webfact]

PREAH VIHEAR CONFLICTS

Unesco calls for dialogue

By The Nation

Unesco has called for dialogue between Thailand and Cambodia concerning Unesco's listing of Preah Vihear Temple as World Heritage Site.

Unesco's director general Irina Bokova said in a statement issued on Wednesday that the role of the 1972 World Heritage Convention as an instrument for international cooperation.

She was referring to dispute between Thailand and Cambodia over Cambodia's listing of Preah Vihear Temple as World Heritage Site.

Unesco's World Heritage Committee is convening in Brasilia city of Brazil and Cambodia has submitted a Full Management Plan for the Hindu-styled temple required by the committee after the temple was inscribed as the WH site in 2008.

Thailand said it would walk out from the meeting if the committee approved the plan.

Bokova's comments follow protests outside Unesco Office in Bangkok (Thailand) held as the World Hertiage Committee meets in Brasilia to examine the state of conservation of the temple.

Referring to her recent meetings with representatives of Cambodia and Thailand, Bokova emphasized that the first concern of the World Heritage Committee is to protect and promote their heritage, and this with full respect and without prejudice to the sovereignty of Member States or to any territorial claims.

"Protecting and enhancing our natural and cultural heritage, means building the peace, respect and solidarity which lies at the heart of Unesco mission. It is our common responsibility to make these sites emblems of peace, dialogue and reconciliation."

-- The Nation 2010-07-28

[animatic]

If The Manager, which is owned and run by Sondhi of PAD, is a totally and completely biased media outlet that reflects the views and beliefs of Sondhi and PAD, with very little truth in it. WHY IS IT NOT BANNED?

Does anything on it incite people to commit violence and destruction?

That is the point.

At least not within Thailand's borders, Thai against Thai.

They do not espouse violence, even if the a quite overboard in their nationalism.

They may well push too far towards using force versus Cambodia in the temple issue.

The sites that are banned, are banned for INTENTIONALLY stirring up violence

and for INTENTIONAL and blatant lese magisty violations.

Not for protesting for democracy the concept, and not for criticizing the government,

and basic functional methods in Thai society.

Edited July 28, 2010 by animatic

[RKASA]

If The Manager, which is owned and run by Sondhi of PAD, is a totally and completely biased media outlet that reflects the views and beliefs of Sondhi and PAD, with very little truth in it. WHY IS IT NOT BANNED?

Good cop Bad cop they work for the Dem's - always have. How else can you make Ab Lincoln out of veggie's?

[webfact]

Cambodia Adamant on Preah Vihear Issue

Cambodia's foreign minister staunchly declares that Preah Vihear Temple has been a recognized World Heritage Site of his country since 2008 after leading over 20 international delegates on a visit to the controversial area.

A report on ASTV website said Cambodia's Deputy Prime Minister and Foreign Minister Hor Nam Hong responded to Thailand's effort against listing Preah Vihear Temple as Cambodia's World Heritage, saying that it has been recognized as his country's World Heritage site since 2008. He added nothing can be done to refute this fact.

The Cambodian foreign minister made the statement following a visit to Singapore with Cambodian Prime Minister Hun Sen after hearing about a People's Alliance for Democracy assembly in Bangkok protesting the registration of Preah Vihear by UNESCO.

Hor Nam Hong was firm in stating that Thailand cannot reverse the status of the ancient temple, which was granted by UNESCO two years ago.

On Monday, more than 20 ambassadors and delegates to Cambodia from countries such as Australia, Cuba and Vietnam were led on a tour of markets surrounding Preah Vihear.

During the visit, the representatives were informed that many of the vendors had been fired upon by Thai soldiers.

Cambodia maintains that it does not have “disputed” territory with Thailand.

The neighboring nation has called for Thailand to respect the Siam-France Treaty border map that was created between 1904 and 1907 as well as a World Court ruling in 1962 that Preah Vihear belongs to Cambodia.

-- Tan Network 2010-07-28

[alex_aka_P]

According to the legend, the Emerald Buddha was created in India in 43 BC

BTW, she lists herself in her profile as being of the Male gender. Explains the confusion, I guess.

C'mon, just one more troll is discovered here.

Someone, please act.

PS: and too good English to be a Thai's one

Edited July 28, 2010 by alex_aka_P

[alex_aka_P]

Emerald Buddah was stolen from Laos? Better start a new forum.

Better try to google for "Ho Phrah Kaew" (Vientiane, Laos).

And, once again - please dont post your trolling posts. Please.

[rogerman]

3 provinces in Cambodia is actually Thailand.

The half of Thailand is formerly a part of the Khmer Empire.

And the second belongs to Malayans. The real Thailand is hidden somewhere at Lanna (which is, of course, formerly a part of Chinese Empire and built by Chinese escaped from Genghiz Khan's ords invading from the north).

Read your own histtory, kiddo. And don't post stupidity.

Quite right.

  The problem with the "Thai version"of history is that it has been edited to look like everyone has stolen Thai's land....... Why else would there be Khmer temples in the middle of Isaan....which isn't Thai-land at all

[ranoch]

You are 100% correct, but their history might hide all that part! so better learn from France library.

3 provinces in Cambodia is actually Thailand.

The half of Thailand is formerly a part of the Khmer Empire.

And the second belongs to Malayans. The real Thailand is hidden somewhere at Lanna (which is, of course, formerly a part of Chinese Empire and built by Chinese escaped from Genghiz Khan's ords invading from the north).

Read your own histtory, kiddo. And don't post stupidity.

Quite right.

The problem with the "Thai version"of history is that it has been edited to look like everyone has stolen Thai's land....... Why else would there be Khmer temples in the middle of Isaan....which isn't Thai-land at all

[ranoch]

Ask World Court for your answer! and tell yellow people don destroy ur own country bcoz of losing face

I think Cambodia should give PREAH VIHEAR which is rightfully theirs back to Thailand. You do not want PAD vexed, they might throw a temper tantrum and close the Airport again.

[chantorn]

3 provinces in Cambodia is actually Thailand.

Don't blame Khun Piengrudee. This is actually what we are taught is school.

[HAL9000]

In today's day of GPS, it shouldn't be a big issue to get out the map and put a bunch of stakes in the ground to mark the border.

[webfact]

PREAH VIHEAR CONTROVERSY

PM vows to oppose plan

By The Nation

Pulling out of Unesco panel among options being considered by government if World Heritage Committee accepts Cambodia's proposal on Preah Vihear

Prime Minister Abhisit Vejjajiva yesterday considered options to retaliate against Unesco if the World Heritage Committee approved the controversial Preah Vihear temple management plan although the United Nations agency has guaranteed that the Hindu temple's inscription has nothing to do with the disputed border areas with Cambodia.

Among the options suggested by ministers was for Natural Resource and Environment Minister Suwit Khunkitti, who will be at the World Heritage Committee meeting in Brazil, to stage a walkout, and withdraw Thailand's membership from the Unesco committee.

Abhisit blamed the Unesco committee for listing Preah Vihear, which had created conflict between the two neighbouring countries. "If Unesco accepts the plan, it will create a wide rift between the people of the two countries," he was quoted by a source as saying at the Cabinet meeting.

The issue of the world heritage designation for Preah Vihear heated up after the pro-government People's Alliance for Democracy (PAD) protested in front of the Unesco regional office in Bangkok on Tuesday over its fear of losing territory.

Abhisit took the PAD line and instructed Suwit to lobby for a delay of the Preah Vihear management plan until the border dispute with Cambodia could be settled.

The Hindu temple of Preah Vihear is situated in territory under Cambodian sovereignty, according to a ruling by the International Court of Justice in 1962. Thailand claimed sovereignty over the areas adjacent to the temple. The two countries are now in the process of demarcating the border, but have made little progress so far.

The PAD and Abhisit are concerned that Cambodia might treat the disputed areas as a buffer zone of the listed temple.

"There are many points in the plan that we cannot accept, notably what has shown in the graphic," Abhisit said, without elaborating whether it included the disputed area. However, the premier gave contradicting information, as he also said the plan mostly focused on the areas to the south of the temple, which is under Cambodian sovereignty and over which Thailand has never made claims.

The World Heritage Committee, since 2008, has made it clear that the area proposed by Cambodia does not include the areas to the north and the west of the temple that are the subject of a territorial dispute with Thailand.

Unesco director-general Irina Bokova yesterday called for a dialogue on safeguarding Preah Vihear and underscored the role of the 1972 World Heritage Convention as an instrument for international cooperation.

Referring to her recent meetings with representatives of Cambodia and Thailand, Bokova said in her statement issued from Paris that the first concern of the World Heritage Committee was to protect and promote heritage, and this with full respect and without prejudice to the sovereignty of member states or to any territorial claims.

"Protecting and enhancing our natural and cultural heritage, means building the peace, respect and solidarity which lies at the heart of Unesco's mission. It is our common responsibility to make these sites emblems of peace, dialogue and reconciliation," she said.

Cambodian Foreign Minister Hor Namhong said Preah Vihear had already been designated as a World Heritage Site. "Whatever Thailand is doing, this cannot be changed," he was quoted as saying by The Phnom Penh Post.

Foreign Minister Kasit Piromya said at the Cabinet meeting yesterday that international organisations had been unfair to Thailand and not transparent. Such practice created conflicts among countries. Academics from some superpower nations have personal interests in the World Heritage designation, he said.

However, Kasit said the option of withdrawing Thai membership from the Unesco committee was not an easy one, and would take time. The idea of withdrawal was discussed widely, since it might affect Thailand's cultural and natural properties included on the world heritage list.

At the end of the Cabinet meeting, Abhisit concluded that Thailand would not accept the Preah Vihear management plan and the government would review its membership of the Unesco committee. He said Suwit would make the decision on whether he should walk out of the Brazil meeting to protest against the decision of the World Heritage Committee.

Kasit has been told to write to Unesco about Thailand's disapproval of the Preah Vihear management plan.

Pongpol Adireksarn, former chairman of the Thai National World Heritage Committee, said separately that the Thai delegation should look at the Preah Vihear management plan in detail before making any decision to oppose it.

Minister Suwit and the Cabinet should be well prepared before the meeting and should employ diplomatic ways to communicate with the World Heritage Committee rather than acting impulsively, he said.

-- The Nation 2010-07-29

[somchaiq]

I have read the story that a Thai King gave the Area of Prehar Vehear Temple to Cambodia and received in exchange for it the Chantaburi Province. There are a lot Fruits growing and they find also Gems there. A good Deal for Thailand. If they don't want it now they may just give Chantaburi back to Cambodia.

[geovalin]

If Abisith was only ridiculous we just would laugh and that's it.

But it's ALSO dangerous. Obviously, the Thai gvt stances are exactly the ones of the PAD. Abisith obeys to the PAD. And all of us know that the final goal of the PAD is to create a the conditions of a war: to irritate, to assault, to provoke Cambodia until Hun Sen becomes mad.

Thailand has already a civil war in the South, important troubles with the Red Shirt, it's difficult to understand why the gvt wants to attack Cambodia on a silly story like that.

[webfact]

PREAH VIHEAR CONTROVERSY

Unesco delays pondering management plan to tonight

Unesco's World Heritage Committee has decided to postpone consideration on the controversial Preah Vihear Temple management plan from yesterday to tonight.

The postponement came after Cambodia's representatives requested an urgent talk with Thai Natural Resource and Environment Minister Suwit Khunkitti who is at the WH committee meeting in Brazil.

The panel will decide the matter again at about 10pm Bangkok time.

Prime Minister Abhisit Vejjajiva yesterday considered options to retaliate against Unesco if the WH Committee approved the controversial Preah Vihear temple management plan.

PM revealed the option although the United Nations agency has guaranteed that the Hindu temple's inscription has nothing to do with the disputed border areas with Cambodia.

Among the options suggested by ministers was for Natural Resource and Environment

Suwit Khunkitti threatened to stage a walkout, and withdraw Thailand's membership from the Unesco committee.

Abhisit blamed the Unesco committee for listing Preah Vihear, which had created conflict between the two neighbouring countries. "If Unesco accepts the plan, it will create a wide rift between the people of the two countries," he was quoted by a source as saying at the Cabinet meeting.

Abhisit had instructed Suwit to lobby for a delay of the Preah Vihear management plan until the border dispute with Cambodia could be settled.

-- The Nation 2010-07-29

[geovalin]

Compare the first page of The Pravda Nation - The Bangkok Post

and

http://www.phnompenhpost.com/

This silly temple story is on the main title in Thailand and just a small news in Cambodia.

Does Abisith need a war to win the next polls?

[march]

Abisith obeys to the PAD.

An untold number of news stories over the past 3 months directly refutes that inaccurate assessment.

[Piengrudee]

Thailand have to take back what is belong to us. Including Angkor Wat.

[Just1Voice]

Thailand have to take back what is belong to us. Including Angkor Wat.

Ok, let's see, Angkor Wat is a HINDU temple dedicated to the Hindu god Vishnu, in Angkor, Cambodia, built in the early 12th century for King Survavarman II, a Khmer King. So how is you think it belongs to Thailand????

Oh, I know, you learned in the wonderful Thai school system that it was built by Thai, and therefore belongs to them, right????

[asiawatcher]

&lt;deleted&gt; has UNESCO got to do with this? Butt out ...

[Tod Daniels]

All this rampant nationalism over a management plan to a temple which was decided back in 1962 belongs to Cambodia? A management plan I might add that thailand hasn't even laid eyes on, nor requested an 'advance copy' before showing up with their pissy attitude, their bluster and bluff?

I love the quote by 'Mark';

"We think the World Heritage Committee should not consider this plan until Thailand and Cambodia have agreed on the demarcation line."

In the time since Preah Vihear was designated a WHS in 2008, I don’t think even a single square meter of land has been hashed out by the two countries. In fact I don't believe the Joint Demarcation Committee members on either side even met with one another .

This entire pissing match is about 4.6 kilometers of economically unviable and nearly totally worthless, rocky 'scrub' land.

Not to mention thailand has closed their access to the temple site which was a former cash cow for the national park up in Sisaket as the access road to the temple site from the thai side runs thru it; letting thailand charge tourists to pass thru.

I think thailand shot themselves in the foot on all this posturing and rabid nationalistic rhetoric.

I totally concur with the synopsis given by "Just1Voice" about how this sour grapes attitude on thailand's part came about. OLD NEWS.. In fact a country can appeal an ICJ decision IF they can provide compelling new evidence. I think the statute of limitations on filing an appeal is 10 years. In that time thailand didn't supply even a single piece of 'new evidence'.

I also remember going to the FCCT and listening to a thai guy talk about Phra Vihear a coupla years ago when it was listed as a WHS. He rambled on about how the ICJ's decision wasn't unanimous, and therefore somehow 'didn't count'. He even had a booklet made up of the judges comments who didn't vote for decision, yet conveniently left out any of the judges comments who did vote for it.

BTW: 'asiawatcher' the reason UNESCO is involved is once a location is listed as a World Heritage Site the country in which it resides hasta follow UNESCO rules about it's management, including filing a plan for the management. What UNESCO is not involved in is this pissing match between Cambodia and thailand over the 'disputed' land.

I also whole heartedly agree with other illustrious posters in the fact that the poster known as "Piengrudee"; (the ‘nearly 100 post’ new resident expert on all things thai) has some skewed ideas about thai history and in their posting penchants overall. Not to mention some very marginal engrish skills. Probably some old, bald, beer bellied, fat foreigner who ripped the avatar pic off the internet and is tryin’ to type ‘thai-speak’.

My advice; DON'T FEED THE TROLL. .. ..

[Piengrudee]

"marginal engrish skills" - you can't even spell right.

[Insight]

"marginal engrish skills" - you can't even spell right.

What was wrong with Rucharee?

[mazeltov]

You might want to say that every thing you say applies to the red shirt's also. They were the ones in power who started this fiasco. They started it for the same reason Abhisit carries it on. It looks good to the average Thai pure and simple.

One of the things that really gets me is that they imply King Rama v was not aware of what he was doing. What they are saying in a nice polite way is he was a idiot and didn't know what was going on.

What you talking about? What did the 'red shirts' start when they were in power?

Do you mean the Samak government who did nothing else but agreed and support the Cambodian bid to getting that temple listed as World Heritage Site. Then Foreign Minister Noppadon Pattama was attacked by Democrats in the parliament and by the PAD on the street for signing a deal with Cambodia. The Democrats started a censure motion over this. The constitutional court found that Noppadon as FM has violated the constitution because the signing the deal with Cambodia was only a cabinet decision without holding a parliamentary debate over it.

Without the ultra nationalistic rabble-rousing by the Democrats and the PAD there wouldn't be a problem.