Fake Degrees In Thailand?

[Bluffer]

places ask for transcripts now, to be officially mailed from your school.

Well if you got your degree in Scotland pre95 like I did, the school won't issue a transcript.

As for needing a degree, well upcountry you don't.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Then if you have a HND then the transcript comes from the SQA not the college. The ministry freaks wont know what to do!

"Give us you college transcript."

Here it is.

"Not from college."

But its my transcript.

"Not have college name"

But the SQA hold my results and give the transcripts

"Not have college name"

etc etc

[Neeranam]

Then if you have a HND then the transcript comes from the SQA not the college. The ministry freaks wont know what to do!

"Give us you college transcript."

Here it is.

"Not from college."

But its my transcript.

"Not have college name"

But the SQA hold my results and give the transcripts

"Not have college name"

etc etc

An HND is of no use, should be but isn't.

Edited July 11, 2005 by Neeranam

[kenkannif]

Funnily enough I know of two people in the last 6 months that got a WP with a HND (both in Bangkok). So yes it is(/can be) possible and thus is of(/can be of) use.

Never say never! But then never say for sure. TiT where rules/requirement change from one day to the next and from person to person.

Edited July 11, 2005 by kenkannif

[westybrook]

I was told that up north, schools don't need a degree and can get you a WP, so it is possible I guess if the demand is needed and the post is to be filled urgently!

[p_brownstone]

Although the OP does not say he is considering getting a fake degree to obtain employment in Thailand, in his particular case I would advise strongly against it.

Westy, if your wife is denied her Visa to join you, your only option is to come to Thailand and join her as you mentioned somewhere I believe. If you try to use a fake degree and get caught out you may very well be deported and declared persona non grata in Thailand, slamming the door on any chance of you being together as a family.

Far better to be honest about it and try to get a job from somewhere that does not require a degree.

Patrick

[dr_Pat_Pong]

Remember that guy, about a year or so ago, who got sprung with a fake degree ? He had to flee for Vietnam leaving his Thai wife in Thailand. He was wanted and couldn't return to Muang Thai.

[PeaceBlondie]

I was told that up north, schools don't need a degree and can get you a WP, so it is possible I guess if the demand is needed and the post is to be filled urgently!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

As kenk said, anything's possible. I worked upcountry full-time for two years, and never could get a WP or TL, even with a degree and a TEFL cert. If they want you bad enough, they'll promise you everything and give you little or nothing. No kidding; some of the job recruiters lie worse than the USArmy does.

[Eastender]

Did my post about the king of Thailand being granted a degree in music by an American university he never studied at get deleted? Or did I not post it correctly?

[dr_Pat_Pong]

Did my post about the king of Thailand being granted a degree in music by an American university he never studied at get deleted?  Or did I not post it correctly?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

It was an honorary degree. Nothing sinister in that. His Majesty would literally have scores of such degrees across multiple disciplines.

[WhiteShiva]

Did my post about the king of Thailand being granted a degree in music by an American university he never studied at get deleted?  Or did I not post it correctly?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

It was an honorary degree. Nothing sinister in that. His Majesty would literally have scores of such degrees across multiple disciplines.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Having heard some of his composition, I'd say an honorary degree was much deserved!

Check out

http://kanchanapisek.or.th/royal-music/index.en.html

for some of his recordings in MP3 format. Some very good stuff here....

[dr_Pat_Pong]

thanks for the link.

[kenkannif]

Did my post about the king of Thailand being granted a degree in music by an American university he never studied at get deleted?  Or did I not post it correctly?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Your initial phrasing was a tad 'naughty' shall we say, so I deleted it.

[dr_Pat_Pong]

As you should Ken. As you should

[adjan jb]

I was told that up north, schools don't need a degree and can get you a WP, so it is possible I guess if the demand is needed and the post is to be filled urgently!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Up north, all universities and most "decent" schools do need a degree (BA at least)

But when we apply for a WP and a B visa (or the annual extensions of both) neither the labour dpt nor the immigration ask for a copy.

But i guess it's different if you work for a private tution centre. Most of the teachers (and owners) in such "schools" don't even bother with the paperwork.

I've been teaching in a state uni for more than 3 years. the policy their is simple : no degree and no experience, no job.

[kenkannif]

^ Do you mean the whole of the North or just in Chiang Mai???

[Neeranam]

Up north, all universities and most "decent" schools do need a degree (BA at least)

Not true in one university in Isaan, it is entirely up to the principal or president. Of course, usually they will ask for one.

Edited July 14, 2005 by Neeranam

[kenkannif]

I think he just meant for Chiang Mai, there's no way he could know about all unis/schools in the North.

[Gumleaf]

You can easily buy fake degrees on the web - I often get offered them over email (I think having university email addresses causes that).  Obviously having worked for my degrees, I have strong moral objections to these cheats.  But, here's one story;

------------

Last year, working at one university in Thailand, we had many applicants for teaching jobs to sort through and check up on.  One guy managed to get all the way to the interview stage before one of my colleagues found out he had fake degrees.  Moments before walking into the interview, my colleague passed around the advert from where the guy had got his degrees - and this was duly attached to his file in front of all of us.

He then had an interview with 5-6 professors all of whom knew he had fake degrees.  We humoured him for a while, and then got him to make a presentation...  Watching the presentation, it was very hard to stop laughing as this 'doctor of marketing' tried to explain to us that is "wasn't enough to just advertise a printer on tv, you needed to have someone to sell it too".  The presentation lasted 2 minutes (should have been 20).  After which the guy was laid into.

-------------

My point is this, ok you can buy a degree and maybe you are arrogant enough to feel that you are good enough to do the job and you won't learn anything from doing a degree anyway.  You may even get an interview, and even manage to con someone into giving you a job, but then you'll not be equipped with the knowledge and ability to really do the job.  Then, you'll either get found out, or you'll ruin the reputation of the good, real teachers.

Capco - you are missing something big, life isn't always about money, money, money - if I was in life for money, I certainly wouldn't be in Thailand.  I spent 8 years at university, and probably a lot more money than you suggest on my degrees, but I got them.  I had a high paid city job before returning to study, but I'm a lot happier doing something that makes a real difference in a great environment, earning 35kBaht.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Can someone explain to me how a person with a BA in French Renaissance Painting , Garden Gnome management or whatever obscure field is better "equipped with knowledge and ability to really do the job. "

Unless the degree is directly related to teaching then the holder of said degree is no more "better equipped" to teach than the holder of a degree from "Kao Sarn Rd University"

I know the process of gaining a BA teaches gives you research skills among other things . Maybe this would be helpful in searching the net for pre done lesson plans after a heavy night at Pat Pong.

[Vit42]

Can someone explain to me how a person with a BA in French Renaissance  Painting , Garden Gnome management or whatever obscure field is better "equipped with  knowledge and ability to really do the job. "

Unless the degree is directly related to teaching  then the holder  of said degree is no more "better equipped" to teach than the holder of a degree from "Kao Sarn Rd University"

I know the process of gaining a BA teaches gives you research skills among other things . Maybe this would be helpful in searching the net for pre done lesson plans after a heavy night at Pat Pong.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Although i agree that a degree doesn't necessarily make you more qualified, it does serve a purpose. From the hiring firm's p.o.v., when they have tons of resumes, an easy and legitimate way of filtering down to the short list of candidates is by level of education. Another perspective is that a degree, no matter what it's in, is a way to guage a person's ability to learn, accomplish, complete, and compete to do something beyond the norm. Without a degree it's time consuming and wasteful to determine, let alone take a chance, with someone to see if they are "better equipped" or not to do the job.

[westybrook]

I agree with you to some degree there Vit42, but I know many who have done Uni and got this and that, and are as dumb as they come, maybe he or she aced that subject they were doing, but other subjects even basic, can be a problem to them.

If someone has the passion to teach and are good at it, its a shame that some man or lady with a BA in Landscape design will eventually beat them to it!

[Gumleaf]

Can someone explain to me how a person with a BA in French Renaissance  Painting , Garden Gnome management or whatever obscure field is better "equipped with  knowledge and ability to really do the job. "

Unless the degree is directly related to teaching  then the holder  of said degree is no more "better equipped" to teach than the holder of a degree from "Kao Sarn Rd University"

I know the process of gaining a BA teaches gives you research skills among other things . Maybe this would be helpful in searching the net for pre done lesson plans after a heavy night at Pat Pong.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Although i agree that a degree doesn't necessarily make you more qualified, it does serve a purpose. From the hiring firm's p.o.v., when they have tons of resumes, an easy and legitimate way of filtering down to the short list of candidates is by level of education. Another perspective is that a degree, no matter what it's in, is a way to guage a person's ability to learn, accomplish, complete, and compete to do something beyond the norm. Without a degree it's time consuming and wasteful to determine, let alone take a chance, with someone to see if they are "better equipped" or not to do the job.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Your answer would be to a question such as "How does a BA make it easier to GET a teaching job"

My question was "How does a BA make you better equipped to DO a teaching job"

Next!

[Vit42]

Can someone explain to me how a person with a BA in French Renaissance  Painting , Garden Gnome management or whatever obscure field is better "equipped with  knowledge and ability to really do the job. "

Unless the degree is directly related to teaching  then the holder  of said degree is no more "better equipped" to teach than the holder of a degree from "Kao Sarn Rd University"

I know the process of gaining a BA teaches gives you research skills among other things . Maybe this would be helpful in searching the net for pre done lesson plans after a heavy night at Pat Pong.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Although i agree that a degree doesn't necessarily make you more qualified, it does serve a purpose. From the hiring firm's p.o.v., when they have tons of resumes, an easy and legitimate way of filtering down to the short list of candidates is by level of education. Another perspective is that a degree, no matter what it's in, is a way to guage a person's ability to learn, accomplish, complete, and compete to do something beyond the norm. Without a degree it's time consuming and wasteful to determine, let alone take a chance, with someone to see if they are "better equipped" or not to do the job.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Your answer would be to a question such as "How does a BA make it easier to GET a teaching job"

My question was "How does a BA make you better equipped to DO a teaching job"

Next!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Still don't get it do you? 2 people: one has a BA one does not, just from this fact alone i could assess that the person with a BA has at least done something that might qualify him to teach. The other person, who knows, may or may not be qualified. It's not about "easier to get" or "better equipped" but about who has at least proven they can do something with their life that might just qualify them. If not a degree, pray tell, how would you qualify someone to teach... test the lot of them? That sounds profoundly efficient and value added, NOT.

Perhaps a better question would be "why do some people have to lie in order to get a job especially if they think they are well equipped to do the job?" Don't blame it on the system... what's the point in becoming a teacher if you don't believe in learning and getting a legitimate degree yourself?????

[dr_Pat_Pong]

Well put Vit.

[mbkudu]

I, like most people would never use a fake degree. There is absolutely no shame in not having one; lots of westerners don't have degrees. Much better to just say you don't have one and then deal with from there on. Getting a TEFL or CELTA doesn't require one and then you've got a foot in the door. Anyone who is determined in Thailand can make it.

[Gumleaf]

Can someone explain to me how a person with a BA in French Renaissance  Painting , Garden Gnome management or whatever obscure field is better "equipped with  knowledge and ability to really do the job. "

Unless the degree is directly related to teaching  then the holder  of said degree is no more "better equipped" to teach than the holder of a degree from "Kao Sarn Rd University"

I know the process of gaining a BA teaches gives you research skills among other things . Maybe this would be helpful in searching the net for pre done lesson plans after a heavy night at Pat Pong.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Although i agree that a degree doesn't necessarily make you more qualified, it does serve a purpose. From the hiring firm's p.o.v., when they have tons of resumes, an easy and legitimate way of filtering down to the short list of candidates is by level of education. Another perspective is that a degree, no matter what it's in, is a way to guage a person's ability to learn, accomplish, complete, and compete to do something beyond the norm. Without a degree it's time consuming and wasteful to determine, let alone take a chance, with someone to see if they are "better equipped" or not to do the job.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Your answer would be to a question such as "How does a BA make it easier to GET a teaching job"

My question was "How does a BA make you better equipped to DO a teaching job"

Next!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Still don't get it do you? 2 people: one has a BA one does not, just from this fact alone i could assess that the person with a BA has at least done something that might qualify him to teach. The other person, who knows, may or may not be qualified. It's not about "easier to get" or "better equipped" but about who has at least proven they can do something with their life that might just qualify them. If not a degree, pray tell, how would you qualify someone to teach... test the lot of them? That sounds profoundly efficient and value added, NOT.

Perhaps a better question would be "why do some people have to lie in order to get a job especially if they think they are well equipped to do the job?" Don't blame it on the system... what's the point in becoming a teacher if you don't believe in learning and getting a legitimate degree yourself?????

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I do get it .. I understand your answer perfectly .. I agree 100% with what your saying ... Everything you said is logical .. its all common sense. Of course if one person had a degree and one didn't .. the one with the degree would more than likely be the one to GET the job (do you understand the difference betwwen the verbs "GET and "DO? .. I think not as it's causing you problems in understanding my question).. Theres only one teeny weeny little problem .... Its just not the answer to my question .. DO you GET it now?

Does anyone have an answer to my question? .. well don't worry .. it was a rhetorical one anyway I suppose. Of course a B.A in Garden Gnome Management wouldn't better equip you to DO a teaching job. (Although according to to the posters trying to answer my question it would certainly help you GET a teaching job)

That concludes todays lesson on the difference between the verbs "DO" and "GET"

and how some people .. no matter how simply you try to ask a simple question .. just don't GET it.

Dr Pat Pong .. 17,000 posts and you agree with Vit? .. I guess having a high post count doesn't mean all that ,much after all.

I suppose my sacred posting rights will be suspended again now .. Oh well go on then.

Edited July 16, 2005 by Gumleaf

[dr_Pat_Pong]

Yeah ... you are right. I am going to suspend you. Try to think about the old adage about cheats and prospering.

[Gumtree]

Yeah  ...  you are right. I am going to suspend you. Try to think about the old adage about cheats and prospering.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Well I'm back again as

Gumtree"

So Pong actually was WEAK enough to suspend me? .. For What? A bit of playfull banter? .. A joking war of words? .. Can't handle it can he? .. It's true what I've read about certain members of this forum .. terrified of someone new "invading" thier tight little patch .. maybe in the real world these pot bellied aging teachers are scared of being outed from thier jobs by someone younger,quicker,smarter. How will they support thier boozing and whore mongering then?

Pong sent me a PM calling me a "Cheater" .. thats it .. that was the total of the PM .. one word .."CHEATER" (in caps mind you) .. I mean really .. who talks like that? .. sounds like a school kid to me. "Nah nah CHEATER" .. Christ! .. it's pathetic.

How am I a cheater? .. whatever thats supposed to mean. Can someone with a little sense read back the last few posts and explain it to me? .. it's got me stuffed.

OK POng .. go ahead and suspend me under this name again if you have to .. I myself couldn't bring myself to be so weak and insecure.

[huski]

Yeah   ...   you are right. I am going to suspend you. Try to think about the old adage about cheats and prospering.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Well I'm back again as

Gumtree"

So Pong actually was WEAK enough to suspend me? .. For What? A bit of playfull banter? .. A joking war of words? .. Can't handle it can he? .. It's true what I've read about certain members of this forum .. terrified of someone new "invading" thier tight little patch .. maybe in the real world these pot bellied aging teachers are scared of being outed from thier jobs by someone younger,quicker,smarter. How will they support thier boozing and whore mongering then?

Pong sent me a PM calling me a "Cheater" .. thats it .. that was the total of the PM .. one word .."CHEATER" (in caps mind you) .. I mean really .. who talks like that? .. sounds like a school kid to me. "Nah nah CHEATER" .. Christ! .. it's pathetic.

How am I a cheater? .. whatever thats supposed to mean. Can someone with a little sense read back the last few posts and explain it to me? .. it's got me stuffed.

OK POng .. go ahead and suspend me under this name again if you have to .. I myself couldn't bring myself to be so weak and insecure.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

[Ijustwannateach]

[liam58]

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

So .. that's it then? .. Yes it's Gumleaf here again .. pretty slack isn't it? .. 3 of the "Heavy weight" posters .. check out thier responses to my reasonable yet playful arguments. A single line quote from Pong that's as unoriginal as it is meaningfull to what I was saying .. a childish pic from huski .. and a smug looking smilie from Ijustwannateach .. (so he says)

I expect that sort of stuff from school kids .. not from guys who teach them!

No wonder you guys are so insecure .. what childish purile behaviour. I've read other comments in other sections of the forum pertaining to this sort of behaviour but it's a bit hard to believe. I mean , are not we supposed to live in a world of free speech? ... I thought we did. I suppose there are places in the world where you get permanantly banned just because someone else feels outdone what what you have said. Indeed there are places in the world where your train gets blown up by someone who doesn't like your ideologies or thoughts.

Yes .. thats right! these high poster so called moderaters are "Forum Terrorists"

If there is any justice in this world .. I should be reinstated to this forum.

I ask again .. anyone .. please read the preceeding posts and inform me of what I said to deserve being banned. Stood up for myself? .. Is that it? .. Is that a big no no here? .. Must we be humble and meek ? Must we bow to the every whim of the moderators?

Get real! .. If you can't handle a reasonable logical argument in an internet forum .. how can you handle all the crap that goes on in the real world. Maybe they can't. Maybe thats why they come here where they can feel they have some sort of power.

Anyway .. thats my two cents worth .. if they haven't got enough honour between them to reinstate me .. I'll just go to Ajarn .. they're reasonable enough. Me? .. a troll? .. talk about the pot calling the kettle black! (I got that from Pongs book of quotes)

PS .. I've just edited this and included a couple of spelling errors .. just to give them something to whinge about.

Edited July 16, 2005 by liam58