If You Have Time.. These Guys Could Do With A Vist

[Nordlys]

Im sure if some people here had the roles reversed that you too would appreciate some kind people making time to visit you and bring a little happiness into your day.

Not everybody can be perfect.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

So, did you go visit the fellow citizen from your town in Bang Kwang?

[TheAceFace]

Not as yet Nordlys, as the only time I was available his visiting was already booked so I just left some clothing with the guards to hopefully pass on to the inmates who need them. I also provided some clothing and books to the embassy to pass onto the needy in there.

I am due to try and visit again next month.

[Nordlys]

Not as yet Nordlys, as the only time I was available his visiting was already booked so I just left some clothing with the guards to hopefully pass on to the inmates who need them. I also provided some clothing and books to the embassy to pass onto the needy in there.

I am due to try and visit again next month.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

[khall64au]

Not as yet Nordlys, as the only time I was available his visiting was already booked so I just left some clothing with the guards to hopefully pass on to the inmates who need them. I also provided some clothing and books to the embassy to pass onto the needy in there.

I am due to try and visit again next month.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

[/quote

For whatever stupid or insane crime that landed you inside such a ###### hole, for seemingly the most important part of your life, wouldn't it be heart warming to know that there are people out there that understand that you f***** up and are paying the price big time - but care enough for your humanity to come visit you?

Just don't buy the donuts from Bangkwang Prison canteen. My mate did, and the guards pulled guns on him. The sugar was packaged in a small plastic bag... which looked just like the substance that landed his visitee there in the first place

[bartender100]

One of the points here is,not really about the guys guilt or sentence,but basic human rights.Pitiful food,no living space or exicise, access to clean water and sanitary conditions.

Prison I believe is no picnic in the UK or US,but conditions here are 18th century barbaric.

Hard drug pushes are the dregs,put them in jail for 30 years,but come on they are human beings,give them rehabilatation,not just misery and no hope.

[Guest fj2003]

My friend Steve is in Bangkwang Prison Thailand. I have been writing to Steve for some time now. There are other guys in the Prison, who have no contact with the outside world at all.

If you have a little time to spare, why not visit someone. You could be making their day or week or month.

Have a look at:

what does he love to eat , most favorite thing ...(or any stuff he want)

i live not so far from bangkwang ...maybe 10-20mins or so

i wish i could make his day ..just tell me ok?

Bambi

ps. i've never been prison place b4 ... how can i please him.... just ask for guys there who is steve?...sorry sound like silly .. but obviously i dont have that experience b4 ...maybe its nice if u tell me whatt do u want me to do, and how?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

If you go to the British Embassy in Bangkok, they will tell you the different visiting times and who is there. These Guys need books and Tshirts and boxer shorts. You can also buy food for them at the prison shop.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

well .. i can go to British Embassy in Bangkok...but ...just ask them " i wanna see steve @ Bangkwang , it will be work? (maybe many steve..and i hve to fight with people who want UK visa@ embassy)...can i contact him at Bangkwang directly?

"These Guys need books and Tshirts and boxer shorts. You can also buy food for them at the prison shop." >>>>> no prob

bambi

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Bambi.... I'm sure a visit from you would cheer him right up...

totster

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Just read 'The Damage Done' by Warren Fellows. He did 12 years in the 'Big Tiger' ........ Bang Kwang (drug sales). Can easily see how someone would just commit suicide very shortly after being imprisoned there. If you read this book and then even THINK about committing a crime in Thailand you are a &lt;deleted&gt; idiot.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

What is it he done exactly, it says he is in on drug charges with possesion to supply, but what are we talking about here, getting a caught a little over the limit with some minor drug or worse?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Well... what normally warrants 33 years..?

totster

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Bambi.... I'm sure a visit from you would cheer him right up...

totster

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

well totster .. i fear alil ..never been prison place be4 ..but ..reasons

1 maybe he is lonely ..need brit stuff(i tried to imagine if i was him)

2 seem its complicate/hard to meet him , UK embassy stuff blah blah

etc..

anyhow .. i think its good to please him ..atleast he can feel he is not alone in universe..(yes he live too far from his home ..UK)

Bambi

...5 am in LOS , i hve to work tomorrow...anyhow ,,if u want some help , u can PM me ...ciao

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Khun Bambi,

If you are going to visit this guy, I suggest you get his last name first. First of all, there may be more than one prisoner called Steve there, and in addition the prison guards may refuse you access if all you have is a first name.

Although I sympetize with the conditions these guys serve in, they have no one to blame but themselves. There are people suffering in this country who are far more worthy of our spare time and sympathy than these guys.

Suggest you spend some time on supporting Burmese or Lao refugees, victims of abuse or violence, handicapped people, orphans, the homeless, etc, etc....

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

For this thread I see myself agreeing with Khun Larry for a change.

Also, I really dont see why some of you feel such a strong need to weigh support for the poor or orphans, with visiting somebody who will spend most of his/her life in jail.

I think there is room to show sympathy and provide help for both. Life is not a simple add and subtract game.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

By all means go and see him - it will probably make him feel a bit better, and if you haven't seen the inside of a Thai jail, it is an eyeopener.

But save a thought for the many prisoners, who get no visitors, simply because familiy members cannot get a visa to Thailand, or are illegal aliens or refused citizenship, and therefore cannot show ID, e.g. Burmese or Hmong. These people get no visits from any embassies, have no money to buy proper food, cigarettes or other good and services, and are at the very bottom of the pecking order in the prison. Add to that that some (not all, not even most, but some) have been framed for crimes they did not commit.

Contemplate that, and then see how sorry you feel for foreigners with regular visits from their respective embassies, their own web pages, and the odd donation from well-meaning visiting strangers.

I prefer to spread my pity and surplus resourses elsewhere.

Others may feel otherwise, and I respect that, but I am just telling you what I feel. Not expecting to change anybodys opinion on the subject.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Thank you for Khun Boatabike,Khun Jai dee and Khun Nordlys for understand my point ..

At first time i read this thread.. what i think was... oh, i live 10-15 mins from Bang Kwang .. well if i m not busy..and not complicate to go there , its ok to see him..maybe give him some food, underwear ..etc

......this is an example that i try to explain......

like few months ago, in TH we donated brassiere and tampon for women prisoner ..

do u think , people who did bad in past and now they stay in place that they deserve to live .....but they dont desrve to have bra and tampon?

Regards

Bambi

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

QUOTE(Nordlys @ 2005-07-08 13:39:54)

QUOTE(yoot @ 2005-07-08 12:22:07)

For others' comments of foreigners I have no idea to agree or disagree. But I have a question. Would you guys like to please any criminal who commits a major crime in your country, especially that criminal is a foreigner? Be honest.

A criminal is a criminal, it doesn't make any difference to me if it's a foreigner or a Thai. I think they should get the same treatment. But if I want to go visit a prisoner I'd probably choose to see a foreign inmate who might be receiving a fewer visits than Thai inmates whom I assume to be receiving more frequent visits than foreign prisoners whose families and friends are not in Thailand.

thats my point too

Bambi

What K.Yoot doesn't understand is why a Thai person would want to help a "farang" drug dealer in jail. A Thai, fair enough. But come on Bambi, you can't be Thai if you want to visit a farang, doesn't make sense.

It is not the fact that he is a drug dealer, I used to stay near the prison(and have been), and seen many many Thai people visiting strangers for compassionate reasons or making merit or whatever.

Anyone who has stayed in Thailand for a while knows that Thais stick together, and do not go out there way to help ANY farang who has done something that is negative towards their country.

I have been to prisons in the UK visiting drug offenders, and many of them K.Yoot were Asians and other foreigners.

Bang Kwang is crowded with visitors on Buddhist holidays, some even do visit the farang prisoners.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

he guys just think a little bit about carma

i mean what ever this guys and ladies have done we all know

that the past of thailand was never realy fair

it is always the same,

if you can bribe the right one you are fine but if you can't you are shit

we can decide by ourself if we go there or not but at least for someone is this something to do good as same as to do for otheronce (homeless e.g.)

and be truth has anyone of us some real experience in prison here in this part of the world?

i think the most not even know how a jail looks back home

so why not calling that guy or lady from your own embassey

and ask them for your nationality inmates

at least you will get some experience for yourself

and on top they deserve already there penalty

so we don't need to kick them into the universe

i read damage done twice to understand it

specially between the lines

and i think if you are there

you have already realized what you have done wrong

so give them a little bit sun to their mind and to your own carma

it is not about being selfish or always confirm to the right

here justiz is far far away from what we westerners do understand

and if already thaipeople go their om buddha holidays to polish up their carma why not you also?

the time off inquisation is gone already

and the human right report is already bad enougth

[khall64au]

One of the points here is,not really about the guys guilt or sentence,but basic human rights.Pitiful food,no living space or exicise, access to clean water and sanitary  conditions.

Prison I believe is no picnic in the UK or US,but conditions here are 18th century barbaric.

Hard drug pushes are the dregs,put them in jail for 30 years,but come on they are human beings,give them rehabilatation,not just misery and no hope.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Well said Bartender... modern society must take some responsibility. Let's help help to look after each other.

[BambinA]

im sorry ... i bought fish and chip,KFC,MacDo..etc ... i drove to the prison place

..and i just know it is "Klong Prem" not "Bang Kwang"

im really sorry , my misunderstand , ..

"Bang Kwang" is too far from my place

im silly i know

BB

[Simpleton]

I dunno, guys...wouldn't my time would be better spent visiting orphanages, old folks' homes, AIDS hospices, rather than visiting people who largely deserve to be where they are?

[Joey Boy]

I dunno, guys...wouldn't my time would be better spent visiting orphanages, old folks' homes, AIDS hospices, rather than visiting people who largely deserve to be where they are?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

dam right.. If ya cant do the time, dont do the crime.. Simple as that

[Mr Helper]

Amazing............people 'STILL' wanna go and visit scum at Bangkwang. Aren't the Orphanages a more worthy visit? or the Childrens hospitals? Childrens homes? Tsunami survivor centres?

This Guy 'Steve Wilcox' (I remember this case), was Grassed up by his co-defendant 'Flannaghan' who was arrested getting off a minibus on KSR with a couple of Kilos of Heroin, which were going to be deported the next day to Europe. Wilcox was the mastermind of it all, and had been a pretty 'Big Fish' in the Thai Drug Exporting business, and had been for a few yrs. He knew EXACTLY what he was doing, and knew only too well the misery his drugs caused back in farangland.

Personally I would let the scum rot. People like that give farangs a very bad name in Thailand, and they all knew the penaltys if caught, so just let them get on with their punishment. The guy had been living in Thai for at least 2 yrs, and knew exactly what would have happened if he was caught, but still carried on regardless. And if anybody should be supporting him, shouldn't it be his family, or have they disowned him? As for the OP you aren't his real friend, you only know him through writing to him right? Where are his REAL friends from Thai or UK??? I bet they have disowned him too, and good for them. If you wanna be the guys joey/serf/whatever, then go ahead, but your being used for sure.

Why not go and visit the drug centres when you go home, and watch the pain and suffering of the addicts who try to wean themselves off Steve Wilcox's heroin, or your local hospital, where there's bound to be an old granny who's been bashed up in their own home, or mugged on the streets by heroin addicts, desperate for money to buy the heroin 'Steve Wilcox' has just had imported to his country!

And what about the families of the young kid with a bright future, who unfortunatley got led astray, and introduced to drugs, and ended up on heroin. That poor kid, a few months later, is found dead in a stinking bedsit, from a heroin overdose. Maybe you could go and be of some support to those families?

[Egor]

Hey buzz1812, I respect you for looking out for your friend, as I would do the same. That is what being a friend is all about. I personally would work a second job to get my friend out of there regardless of how stupid he was.

Steve is not a personal friend of mine or the majority of us. Why should we visit or write him? Because he is a farang.

Why should I send him money to buy twinkes in the prison store? There are Thai children that I would much rather feed rice.

This is a reminder for us all if we choose to see it as that. To make the right choices. When you drive a car drunk, have unprotected sex or decide to make money illegally among other activities you open yourself to face the consequences of these actions.

Everyone knows that illegal activity lead to 1 place, no matter what country you are in. The sentence may vary but whatever it may be it was earned. There are repercussions for illegal activates, Steve made the wrong choice and I am sure he certainly realizes it now.

This is proof to the majority that by making the right choices, although not always easier are the right choices. One bad move and it is over, you can't rollback time. Steve ruined his life, reading his story and learning assures me of not repeating his mistakes. Hopefully that is true for us all reading his story.

[richard10365]

I'm sure he knew before he decided to sell drugs in Thailand that the sentence, if caught, would be harsh.

I think the United States should impose the same penalties.

Maybe the drug problem would go down.

Only people who do drugs would feel sorry for him.

He got what he deserves.

[Jack Jones]

Chaps, I think you're missing the point. The people who want to go and see these inmates treat the place like a tourist attraction. Some of them are there to see how bad the prision really is and then thank themselves that they are not in there. I wonder how many of these 'tourist' visitors really care about the inmates?

[carlar]

Amazing............people 'STILL' wanna go and visit scum at Bangkwang. Aren't the Orphanages a more worthy visit? or the Childrens hospitals? Childrens homes? Tsunami survivor centres?

This Guy 'Steve Wilcox' (I remember this case), was Grassed up by his co-defendant 'Flannaghan' who was arrested getting off a minibus on KSR with a couple of Kilos of Heroin, which were going to be deported the next day to Europe. Wilcox was the mastermind of it all, and had been a pretty 'Big Fish' in the Thai Drug Exporting business, and had been for a few yrs. He knew EXACTLY what he was doing, and knew only too well the misery his drugs caused back in farangland.

Personally I would let the scum rot. People like that give farangs a very bad name in Thailand, and they all knew the penaltys if caught, so just let them get on with their punishment. The guy had been living in Thai for at least 2 yrs, and knew exactly what would have happened if he was caught, but still carried on regardless. And if anybody should be supporting him, shouldn't it be his family, or have they disowned him? As for the OP you aren't his real friend, you only know him through writing to him right? Where are his REAL friends from Thai or UK??? I bet they have disowned him too, and good for them. If you wanna be the guys joey/serf/whatever, then go ahead, but your being used for sure.

Why not go and visit the drug centres when you go home, and watch the pain and suffering of the addicts who try to wean themselves off Steve Wilcox's heroin, or your local hospital, where there's bound to be an old granny who's been bashed up in their own home, or mugged on the streets by heroin addicts, desperate for money to buy the heroin 'Steve Wilcox' has just had imported to his country!

And what about the families of the young kid with a bright future, who unfortunatley got led astray, and introduced to drugs, and ended up on heroin. That poor kid, a few months later, is found dead in a stinking bedsit, from a heroin overdose. Maybe you could go and be of some support to those families?

Hi there you small minded arrogant person. Just read your interesting post about my cousin Steve!! Yes that right - his family fully support him and none have disowned him!! I would be extremely interested to learn where you got your incorrect information about Steven?? Because it obviously wasn't from a legitimate source. For a start Steven wasn't drug dealing - may be if you read the actual court papers you would see that, but as you know nothing about him, his family or his case - don' talk about what you don't know.

Do you think him and many others in Bangkwang don't think they should be punished for their crimes? But thirty three years? You may as well be dead. The trouble is Thailand's justice system is so poor there is no fair trial and no chance for sentences to reflect defendants' crimes. A judge falling sleep during your case - real justice!!!

A few years in there is enough for any human to be punished.

The fact is there was no evidence of Steven supplying because his wasn't. The only thing that led the police to him was that a certain person who was involved in supplying(and sentenced to the death for it),instead of admitting what they did tried to blame Steven. If Steven had drugs for his personal use who was he hurting but himself?

I have absolutely no doubt that you and other small minded people go out drinking and smoking - but that is OK is it?? Just because the law says it is legal. Tell me where the difference is between drugs, alcohol and smoking. Yet do you get locked up for smoking and drinking even though there are more people dying from those causes than drugs! Just as many people are addicted to to smoking and alcohol costing the NHS a small fortune. Do you go and visit the wards where people are addicted to drink or can no longer breath themselves?? Do we lock Benson and Hedges or Stella producers for thirty three years - even in Thailand?

Everyone - to some extent deserves basic human rights. If people want to write and visit prisoners who are you to say they are being used?? and who are you to blacken name who you obviouslyknow nothing about!

As for you who mentioned AIDS - do you think it is fair that prisoners are forced to contract aids because their living conditions are so poor? The court didn't give them the death sentence - they may as well have!

[Noel]

As for you who mentioned AIDS - do you think it is fair that prisoners are forced to contract aids because their living conditions are so poor? The court didn't give them the death sentence - they may as well have!

Hmmm, perhaps you should heed your own advice:

...don' talk about what you don't know.

[qualtrough]

A significant portion of forum members have no sympathy for drug dealers, fair enough. I don't do drugs-never had the interest. But in some ways I do feel sorry for these people because they are in a sense victims of the larger War on Drugs initiated in large part by my government (the US). It is with their encouragement that draconian penalties were put in place around the world for drug possession/use, even drugs far less harmful than alcohol, such as marijuana. Even if this Steve was dealing, did he force his customers to use drugs? Recall that in Thailand opium was legal and government administered up until the early 60s, and marijuana was pretty freely available until at least the early 80s when I arrived here. What progress has been made since then in curbing drug use though incarceration? The so-called War on Drugs has been a total failure and has ruined more lives than it has saved.

Another totally separate issue is why a purportedly Buddhist country maintains such miserable prisons. If the Lord Buddha had a grave he would be spinning around 10000 RPM to see a Buddhsit country with a death penalty and horrible prisons. If any members can refer me to any documents showing that the Buddha would countenance that kind of behavior I will issue a retraction.

Yes, by all means orphans and many other should probably be higher up on our list of priorities. But that doesn't mean that locking people away for 30 or more years in dreadful conditions for using/selling relatively small quantities of drugs is right.

Finally, remember that the big fish in this game almost never see the inside of a jail cell. The people you see in jail are just minnows periodically sacrificed so that authorities can show they are serious about drugs. In the meantime the big dealers inside/outside government continue their business unmolested.

[fanciman]

I have visited a Thai prison. I spoke with somebody on a life sentence for drugs. In 8 years, there had been no visitor. The family were too poor to travel.

People who have not visited, I urge you to go. You would be *amazed* at what you could learn from talking for a few minutes with an inmate that has survived so long under those conditions. You might think you are helping them, but the insight i received will stay with me forever.

You should try and find out a name before going, so that you can meet one of them. You can deposit some money for them. That is a big help! It is very difficult for them. There is a little shop in the compound where you can choose what items you would like for them. These things are then given to the prisoners. Liquid soap is much appreciated.

There is a women's prison next to the men's. There is also a craft shop and so on.

If *you* are ever feeling down, and have some free time, make the trip. You won't regret it.

[Tippaporn]

A very provocative thread, as I've read it in it's entirety just now. Without opining about Steve one way or the other I did want to introduce a concept which has as yet not been brought up. And that is redemption.

While there are those who through their posts obviously portray a more generous heart I believe the concept of redemption is one to consider for those who have a more hard-nosed attitude towards crime and punishment. Especially those who believe that any degree of harshness of punishment is a just fit to a crime.

The reason I'm bringing up redemption is because I am witnessing some startling policy (at least to me) back in the States where certain offenses go on your record rather permanently. Having these offenses on your record in this computerized day and age can prevent you from gaining employment, for instance, among causing other hinderances to pursuing a normal life. A minor offense or two could conceivably have a huge impact on the rest of one's life, the equivalent of being literally branded. Seemingly a greater shame for one who is at the beginning of adulthood.

So I ask myself, if someone fcuks up once or even a multiple of times, whether out of youthful foolishness or due to other circumstances, is the law denying them a chance to redeem themselves? Is there no chance of escaping a past that one would like most of all to leave behind? Now I do understand the logic behind the policy in that it's an effort by government and/or society to protect itself from ill will. How often do we read about cases of hardened criminals who, soon after release of a mild prison sentence for a rather serious crime, simply repeat their original offenses? In these cases the outcry against a lax justice system ensues with pronounced reverberations.

But can you take punishment too far? At what point do you allow for redemption? Or is the issue as black and white as Christianity's concept of heaven and hel_l? Going to hel_l for all eternity for your sins has always seemed quite an excessive sentence to me, especially coming from a God who is supposedly pure love and compassion. Does it seem just to strip a person of all worth forevermore, without any chance of ever regaining it? At what point does a transgression become so unbalancing that it would cancel out all other worth a person exhibits? Afterall, no one is purely "good" or purely"evil."

To put it in another perspective, has anyone read or seen the movie Les Miserables? That would about sum it up. Yet another perspective from which to view this issue would be one's handling of their own children when they make mistakes. How many parents turn their own kids in to the authorities when they find out they're doing drugs, for instance? Is it possible that people use different yardsticks when meteing out punishment depending on how relatively close they are to the perpetrator?

I would wager that this is an issue where people seem to have strong feelings one way or another, and yet if the circumstances would change then the feelings, however strong in a previous direction, could very easily be reversed. I would strongly bet that for most people there exists a dichotomy of thought which goes unrecognized until the tables are turned, or the shoe is on the other foot. I've witnessed this dichotomy often enough and it never ceases to amaze me how seamless the transition is between such disparate beliefs. Their transparency becomes almost invisible.

[chanchao]

Why not visit Thai inmates, by the way?

[mogoso]

That's a bit harsh, WhiteShiva.

The forigners in BK are doing at least 25 years. The only inmates there are those on that sentence, life, awaiting an appeal to The Supreme Court or on death row.

Most of the forigners fell on hard times. Yes, the decision they made was stupid, but knowing someone in there who's almost 3 years through a 100 year sentence and having a copy of the BBC documentary on the place (sanitised of course, or no permission given to broadcast), I have a measure of sympathy for some of them.

A visit wouldn't go amiss IMHO.

I can't bring myself to have sympathy for them. I do feel sorry for them, but as trond has pointed out they brought it upon themselves.

Any moron that gets involved with drugs in SE Asia really is asking to enter the gates of the prison voluntarily. There are the noted exceptions that we've seen on the board, but in most cases stupidity rules apply. Some local knows you've gotten the drug and no secret is safe in the drug world for a farang. A favor needs to be gotten or a debt repaid with the end result of a farang doing time.

Years back on Koh Samui I was walking back from the post office to my cottage. A small grocery lies along the road with a table outside where after purchasing a beer I sat drinking it. A couple (dutch) came and sat at the table with me. We talked a bit, then the male pull some pot out, dumped it on the table and started cleaning it. A quick swallow to finish the beer and I was gone. They didn't know me, they were in their mid fifties, and should have know better. Sure pots always been a Samui commodity, but why advertise ignorance. You gotta live under Thai laws while in Thailand.

[taxexile]

interesting stuff there from tippaporn , maybe sentencing in thailand is way over the top , but so long as he locked up then society is protected from his future wrongdoings , and lengthy sentencing sends a powerful message to other would be offenders.

but the guy in question was found with bagfuls of drugs and he will have been well aware of the consequences of being caught with them.

he was a gambler , he took the risk , and now he is paying the price.

i think visiting prisoners is a worthwhile thing to do , it wont diminish their sentence , but it will give them some contact with the outside. loss of freedom thousands of miles from home in harsh conditions is punishment enough , without them having to be reviled forever. they are suffering for their sins , and that is what punishment is all about.

i enquired a while back at the british embassy about visiting british prisoners , but was asked to go for an interview to ascertain if i was a suitable enough person to go and visit. i got a typical british frosty response when i replied that ive never smuggled drugs or killed anybody what else would you like to know ?

is there a website that publishes names of brits in gaol here , or do i have to jump through hoops at the embassy to find out.??

[Noel]

I see nothing wrong with visiting convicted offenders, although I do have to wonder about those who include such a visit on their tourist attraction itinerary. King's Palace... tick; Crocodile Farm... tick; Bangkok Hilton...

As regards those incarcerated for drug offences, the fundamental issue to my mind concerns the prevailing law.

However unjust, Draconian or ridiculous the penalties for drug offences under Thai law may seem to us, the law is the law.

I can only conclude that the severe sentences handed down for drug offences are intended to be more of a deterrent to would be offenders, rather than a fitting punishment for those foolish enough to thumb their noses at the law of the land..

It is not as though the penalties for drug offences are not widely known; in any event, ignorance is no excuse.

I therefore find it difficult to have sympathy for the profiteers when their careers are brought to a sudden end.

They knew the consequences of their actions: they were aware of the harsh conditions in Thai prisons; they have no one to blame but themselves.

If you do not like the Thai law on drugs, go somewhere else to ply your trade.

And for those who cry that the drugs were for their own use and they were not dealing, supplying, trafficking or whatever, tell someone who may be interested. The Thai law clearly lays down what constitutes each offence.

Again, there can be no excuse: go elsewhere to feed your habit or face the consequences.

To read accounts of petitions being sent to the British Government and the like, with all the predictable bleating as to how ‘unfair’ their plight is and how 'inhuman' the conditions are, leaves me unmoved.

All this was known in advance.

The offenders knew the penalties and so one has to presume they considered the potential reward to outweigh the risk.

In such situations I am reminded that sympathy is found between shit and syphilis in the dictionary.

That may sound harsh, but reality often is.

My message to those who choose to play with fire is simple: do not cry if you get burnt.

If the truth be told, I suspect the only thing most convicted offenders are sorry about is getting caught.

Som nam naa as the Thai say.

[Phil Conners]

If he did the crimes he better be prepared to do the time. Punishment for drug offences are extremely harsh here, everybody know that, so why are some people stupid enough to touch it? Som nam na to them.

But I feel extremely sorry for those framed and innocent. The Aussie girl in Indonesia recently comes to mind. Apparently everybody know (?) she was innocent.

Anyway, who to thank? I think none of the local governments out here really cared about drug trafficing until pushed by US and Euro governments....

[Patsycat]

I agree with everything said above, but perhaps it is also a kindhearted gesture to visit someone just to take a bit of the outside world to them. Food, soap, underwear etc.

But, even if i was to do that, it does not mean that i would write to Blair about their plight (unless it was believable). They made their bed... etc. And who knows, you may get verbal abuse back at you....

[Tippaporn]

Very well stated, Noel. Without a doubt I agree that it's difficult to lament about your situation when you were well aware in advance of the potential consequences of your actions. Don't cry on my shoulder, either.

I can also understand that the severity of the punishment is instituted as a means of detering crime to a more or less absolute degree. Yet there are still some aspects about the issue that remain unsettling to me. Such as a complete lack of compassion; a complete lack of any other considerations whatsoever, whether they be offsetting valuable charateristics or mitiagating circumstances; depending on the situation or severity of the crime the possibility of unjustly throwing someone out to the lions to serve as an example to others; the absolute expunging of self worth; the absolute denial of redemption; and hypocrisy that I know most certainly exists (not intended hypocrisy but unrecognized).

On the one hand what other recourse is there to deal with crime? Yet on the other hand I'm glad that I'm not the one to swing the axe. Nor could I ever be a prison guard. There's just something about it that's too cold-blooded and inhumane for me. It's a valid quandary, no doubt. But this issue has complexity which I'm afraid cannot be overly simplified. Up to now I have my own unspoken conclusions which I'll reserve for myself.

[sibeymai]

I'm no bleeding heart liberal, but neither am I exceptionally intolerant of other people's faults or failings. In my mind a sentence of 33 years for the crime of possesion seems overly harsh. Even more so when the majority of someone's productive life is involved at the same time removing absolutely the person's opportunity to make good for their mistake. Also, the sentence of hardship effectively given to his wife and child is difficult to justify. As far as I am aware it has never been established that Steve ever sold anything. Of course he may have, but that has never been proved and therefore has no legitimacy in this debate.

It's never been adequately explained to me how locking up a drug user is helpful to society. Sure there are cases of psychotic drug users who do need to be locked up. But there are many more recreational drug users within our midst who present no danger to society, convicted or not. If we are to help a drug user is a prison environment necessary or the best place to achieve a positive result ? Steve should do time, no question. But personal use should not mean life.

I've just finished looking around the web site. The cotent is nothing new for anyone who has readh about the Bangkok Hilton or the book Midnight Express. Any foreigner who lives here would be very ill-informed not to know about the conditions in jail here or the penalties throughout Asia for drug offences. But people who through their own stupidity end up in jail do not loose their humanity just because they are locked up. It's all too convenient for some members of society to just forget about people in prison as if having thousand of ignored inmates somehow makes the world a better place.

Once upon a time this same mentality resulted in thousands of people b eing transported from the UK to Australia - out of sight, out of mind. The truth is that removed from the oppressive socisty attitudes which resulted in their imprisonment, many of these people became upstanding members of society when given their freedom. What a pity Steve will not have the same chance. Provided that by being imprisoned he has earnt his lesson shouldn't he have that chance. Isn't that what prison is supposed to be for ?

In Steve's case I think visiting is humane and justified, repatriation to the UK preferable and a pardon, (after serving at least the equivalent of a UK sentence) acceptable.

[skippybangkok]

I went up to Pai ( north ) to go on a rafting trip. Arrived the day before the trip, and took a motor cycle for a tour of the surrounding area. Was shocked to see tons of hill tribe people trying to sell dope there.

There was a Brit with his "Girlfriend" ( both dubious characters ) in the transport from Chiang Mai to Pai...... And surprise surprise , came across them on a motorcycle going to buy dope......

It just seems to me people like this live in a fantasy world thinking they wont get caught ( too smart ), and then complain like hel_l when they end up like steve. I am not justifying thai jails, but unless you were framed, you did not have to end up in one to start off with.

If you wanna have adventure, stick to whats legal i.e. alcahol, sex, bungy jumping, diving or what ever.....sure beats thai jails

[carlar]

As for you who mentioned AIDS - do you think it is fair that prisoners are forced to contract aids because their living conditions are so poor? The court didn't give them the death sentence - they may as well have!

Hmmm, perhaps you should heed your own advice:

...don' talk about what you don't know.

Hmm maybe you could explain how I am talking about what I don't know, when its a family memberlocked up and I have all the court papers which says exactely what the evidence against Steven was.

Whatever people's opinions on prisoners in Thailand is, is it Ok for people to be making up evidence - as several people has rightly stated - THERE WAS NO EVIDENCE OF STEVE SUPPLYING but Thai law hasn't allowed him to be sentenced on that basis.

Have you had any contact with these people? I used to be of the opinion that criminals should just be locked up and forgotten, but it isn't that simple. There is a reason why everyone does something and locking someone up for lenghty sentences doesn't solve the problems i.e. those who are users themselves.

If Thailand's justice is so correct - why isn't it working?

There needs to be some balance between punishment and rehabilitation - which isn't being recognised.

You don't even get 33 1/2 years for murder in the UK (which I am not saying is correct).

And as for talking about what I don't know I am hardly going to sit here and let people print thing about my family that aren't true!!

[saeb]

It is terribly tragic - another one bites the dust. A couple of points though:

1. Sarah Gregory made a telling comment after she was released from jail in the UK. after she had done time in Thailand and was 'exchanged'. There was nothing for her to do in a U.K. prison - but at least in Thailand she could occupy her days in various ways.

Re Steve:

2. The smack was virtually pure - this would have been cut down many times so 25 grammes he had would on the street become 100 or 200.

3. 14 'E''s and 11 yaa baa for personal use?. Who buys in bulk for personal use?. Especially knowing the penalties in LOS for possession.

4. He had been in Thailand for some time. Nobody but a deaf, dumb and blind man can be unaware of the penalties.

It's all terribly tragic and another life wasted but what of the end users of the gear?.

Folks on hard times should just turn themselves in to IDC - at least they get fed and do have a future. At least he never got caught in Singapore.