Foreign Tourists Arrivals In Thailand Mounting Continuously

[animatic]

Tourists are mounting whom? Not enough specifics.

I think the bureaucrats showing about out these figures are giving everyone a good mounting.

[surayu]

....with all these young kids everywhere you go, i am sure it must to be someone mounting continuously in Thailand

[LaoPo]

The TAT is notoriously infamous for the numbers it presents.

They ALWAYS give some positive feedback and they have to do so because of the budgets they receive from the Ministry of Tourism.

If Phuket is 40% up versus last year it doesn't say anything yet.

When Phuket tourism in 2009 was down 30% versus 2008 and let's say 1 million tourist arrivals (probably more) it was down to 700.000.

A PLUS of 40% and Phuket tourism is back to 980.000....still down from 2008.

They mention that they "expect" tourism to be more than 14 million in 2010 but they don't tell you that more than 3-4 million visitors/tourists are from Malaysia (with repeating visitors and some 1,5 Million in total), Cambodia, Laos, Myanmar and the expat border runners PLUS the tourists who travel to Cambodia, Myanmar and Laos and cross the borders also multiple times.

It adds up.

LaoPo

[David006]

The TAT is notoriously infamous for the numbers it presents.

They ALWAYS give some positive feedback and they have to do so because of the budgets they receive from the Ministry of Tourism.

If Phuket is 40% up versus last year it doesn't say anything yet.

When Phuket tourism in 2009 was down 30% versus 2008 and let's say 1 million tourist arrivals (probably more) it was down to 700.000.

A PLUS of 40% and Phuket tourism is back to 980.000....still down from 2008.

They mention that they "expect" tourism to be more than 14 million in 2010 but they don't tell you that more than 3-4 million visitors/tourists are from Malaysia (with repeating visitors and some 1,5 Million in total), Cambodia, Laos, Myanmar and the expat border runners PLUS the tourists who travel to Cambodia, Myanmar and Laos and cross the borders also multiple times.

It adds up.

LaoPo

for sure..one has to wonder the methodology of the "count"

...just been down to the Malaysian border for my 3 monthly... there were at least 12 bus loads of Malaysians visiting the market on the Thai side..This happens every weekend apparently.... a lot of padding for the "tourist" count...

just a guesstimate but at 30 odd seats times 12 times 2 day weekends times say 45 weeks.... 30 odd thousand entry stamps..just one boarder

Maybe TOT have a belief in self fulfilling prophecy...

[ExpatJ]

Who are they trying to convince? It doesn't work with me so they must be trying to convince themselves

there is no need to "convince" anyone.

people from all over the world will ALWAYS come back to Thailand quickly, as it is a desired destination, no matter what those moaners and whiners say.

after all, those moaners and whiners reside in Thailand too, or travel there frequently.

the thing is, people in general forget quickly, and indeed destinations such as Phuket or Samui never had trouble regarding unrest. they may have problems regarding transport-Mafias though, but most tourists care little about that

Thailand is a phenomenon, always bouncing back, no matter what happens (Tsunami, SARS, Bird-Flu, PAD-Airport-occupation, Military Coups, Public unrest......)

the thing is, no other county here in the region offers a similar experience - fantastic value for money when it comes to accomodation, cheap and AROI food, and SANOOK as if there is no tomorrow. plus a pretty good touristic and public infrastructure, including very good hospitals.

you cannot have that in the same way in Indonesia, Malaysia, Vietnam, Philippines, Cambodia, Myanmar.....

that's how it is, and therefore, I will probably not move to anywhere else for the time being, even I acknowledge there is a lot wrong in this country too, in 2010 more than ever before.

Agree completely- Thailand is a huge magnet- even people who seemingly dont like thailand, double pricing, thai people, etc etc, they still stay here - such is the countries draw.

Why is everywhere so quite...please dont say it isnt, as it really is dire in Hua Hin, Bangkok and Samui, from what my friends said in Phuket, they may need to go back to Europe as it is empty there.

Thailand used to attract backpackers,..KSR then off to the Islands, backpackers now, go to KSR and then leave for Cambodia or Laos without seeing anything else in Thailand as it is so expensive. Gone are the days of rooms for 200 Baht...now its 800 Baht or even more in most places. Taxes on alachol have increased the past 2 years.Tuk Tuks etc all charging too much. I remember KSR as a great place with everyone talking about going to Samui, Krabi or Phi Phi, my last recent visit, it was dead, and the people I spoke to were all going eleswhere...so Thailand cant rely on the gap year students/backpackers anymore.

Sexpests have always come to Thailand but now with those that are gradually getting older or have even moved here, there really isnt a new generation of sexpests visiting Thailand, most are now going to Philipines or Cuba, simply because it is far cheaper in those countries for their main activity.

Families....well 100 dead or so on the streets of BKK, do you really think a family would travel to Thailand at present...no chance

OK, there are the diehards that will always come back but Thailand just isnt appealing to any new generation of tourist...maybe a few Indians or Eastern Europeans but they dont spend anything.

Maybe a trip to Phili or Cambodia and you would see what a busy tourist town should look like.......

I can think of at least 7 friends that were regular visitors here...twice a year every year but not since 2007.....how many others know of friends/family that just dont come here anymore.

TAT needs to wake up and face reality as if they dont, a few years more and it dosnt bear thinking about how many business will be ruined.

This is all anecdotal- i could provide my own observations noting the increased number of tourists in the sukhumvit area, increased number of friends (and families) that i know of who are either here or planning to visit this year because of the hotel deals available, the longer than normal queues at immigration that i noticed last week etc etc

I have no strong feelings either way- infact as an expat id rather see fewer tourists here- but as a rational being i tend to believe people who provide statistics e.g. TAT (that can at least be proved or disproved methodologically) rather than people who can only provide anecdotal evidence.

[rametindallas]

Who are they trying to convince? It doesn't work with me so they must be trying to convince themselves

there is no need to "convince" anyone.

people from all over the world will ALWAYS come back to Thailand quickly, as it is a desired destination, no matter what those moaners and whiners say.

after all, those moaners and whiners reside in Thailand too, or travel there frequently.

the thing is, people in general forget quickly, and indeed destinations such as Phuket or Samui never had trouble regarding unrest. they may have problems regarding transport-Mafias though, but most tourists care little about that

Thailand is a phenomenon, always bouncing back, no matter what happens (Tsunami, SARS, Bird-Flu, PAD-Airport-occupation, Military Coups, Public unrest......)

the thing is, no other county here in the region offers a similar experience - fantastic value for money when it comes to accomodation, cheap and AROI food, and SANOOK as if there is no tomorrow. plus a pretty good touristic and public infrastructure, including very good hospitals.

you cannot have that in the same way in Indonesia, Malaysia, Vietnam, Philippines, Cambodia, Myanmar.....

that's how it is, and therefore, I will probably not move to anywhere else for the time being, even I acknowledge there is a lot wrong in this country too, in 2010 more than ever before.

It's what keeps me coming back, The occational problems areas are easy to avoid the same as bad neighborhoods back home are avoided. Phoney Thai smile or not, as a U.S. citizen, I am welcomed here as I never am in Europe. Amazing Thailand! Gotta love it!

Edited August 4, 2010 by rametindallas

[samjaidee]

Are these statistics based on people passing into Thailand through any/all immigration posts? If that is the case then all people doing visa runs would be considered as tourists since they re-enter the country through immigration.

Thailand is a main hub for flights from all over the world to South East Asia. Visitors to Cambodia will more than likely arrive first in Thailand and then transfer either by air or land to Cambodia. This applies equally to Laos or even Vietnam.

Living in Ho Chi Minh City, I've met many tourists who have first flown into Thailand and then moved on to Cambodia immediately and then on to Vietnam. There are many who used to be regular visitors to Thailand but have become rather disillusioned by the state of the country. (I'm not talking about "sex tourists" in case there's some doubt).

There is a quote frequently attributed to Benjamin Disraeli which has some relevance here: 'There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies, and statistics.'

[chivo]

are they sure it's not actually just an increase in the drug smugglers enterring the country!!!!

[mrjohn]

I see chocolate rations are up.....Doubleplusgood eh?

[henryalleman]

More "statistics" for us to believe.

Correct,

My girlfriend is working as a manager in a 5 star hotel in the Silom area. They give away rooms with a 50% discount. After the last bomb attack they had more than 20 rooms concelled in one day.

A friend who is a regular visitor of CM told me that its look like a ghost town, at the sunday walking streets almost not foreigners and many bussiness where closed.

A great part of the salary of people working in the hotel bussines is made by the 10% service charge. Well there salary is down with almost 40%. since the last riots.

Tourisme pick up again????? ballony !!!!!!!!!

[taninthai]

as its low season i would expect it to be quiet everywhere how ever i thnk they are basing info on high season bookings being made

have a read off this from uk website.....

After a tumultuous year, Thailand is returning to form as the best-value destination in Asia – and that sounds like great news for us. Book now and you could find an incredible bargain – you can pick up a week’s luxury package tour, including flights, transfers and stays in 4- and 5-star hotels, from as little as £499.This is because the Foreign Office has finally lifted its warning against travel to Bangkok and Chiang Mai after violence erupted in the Thai capital back in April. Anti-government riots left 21 people dead and hundreds injured but things have now settled. Holidays there are going for a song – as little as 50% of their original price – even though tour operators insist that tourists are flocking back to the idyllic destination.

Online travel agent Travelmood claims Thailand is its most-searched-for spot. And top-end company Kuoni says it has seen a “steady but positive” increase in bookings to Thailand over the past month. The Tourism Authority of Thailand (TAT) says the number of British visitors to Thailand has increased since last year and the Post Office claims it has sold more Thai Baht than in 2009.

But while the prices look great, and in these recessionary times the bigger the bargain the better, there is a downside. The TAT is arguing against the crazy drops in room rates, fearing they spell suicide for the country’s tourism industry as a whole.

The official view is that Thailand is already one of the best bargains in Asia and it shouldn’t need to slash prices any further, while individual hotel owners feel they have no choice other than dropping rates if they want to fill rooms.

So even though we all love a bargain, what if that bargain does long-term damage to a country and its economy? Does that actually make the price too steep? In this case we reckon Thailand is way too popular to stay this cheap for too long. So book your break now to make the most of the deals before everyone gets the hint and Thailand truly takes off again.

Are you all for taking advantage of the incredible deals or will you be listening to the TAT

[SomTumTiger]

Khao San Road was packed last Saturday - floor to ceiling, with Farang Kee Nok . Some are taking advantage of the rock bottom prices.

[jayjay0]

Are these statistics based on people passing into Thailand through any/all immigration posts? If that is the case then all people doing visa runs would be considered as tourists since they re-enter the country through immigration.

Thailand is a main hub for flights from all over the world to South East Asia. Visitors to Cambodia will more than likely arrive first in Thailand and then transfer either by air or land to Cambodia. This applies equally to Laos or even Vietnam.

Living in Ho Chi Minh City, I've met many tourists who have first flown into Thailand and then moved on to Cambodia immediately and then on to Vietnam. There are many who used to be regular visitors to Thailand but have become rather disillusioned by the state of the country. (I'm not talking about "sex tourists" in case there's some doubt).

There is a quote frequently attributed to Benjamin Disraeli which has some relevance here: 'There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies, and statistics.'

Not sure what you are trying to say here that hasn't been said over and over again on this thread. Are you saying that these tourists had bad travel agents and didn't know how to fly them into Cambodia's international air port.

[jayjay0]

as its low season i would expect it to be quiet everywhere how ever i thnk they are basing info on high season bookings being made

have a read off this from uk website.....

After a tumultuous year, Thailand is returning to form as the best-value destination in Asia – and that sounds like great news for us. Book now and you could find an incredible bargain – you can pick up a week's luxury package tour, including flights, transfers and stays in 4- and 5-star hotels, from as little as £499.This is because the Foreign Office has finally lifted its warning against travel to Bangkok and Chiang Mai after violence erupted in the Thai capital back in April. Anti-government riots left 21 people dead and hundreds injured but things have now settled. Holidays there are going for a song – as little as 50% of their original price – even though tour operators insist that tourists are flocking back to the idyllic destination.

Online travel agent Travelmood claims Thailand is its most-searched-for spot. And top-end company Kuoni says it has seen a "steady but positive" increase in bookings to Thailand over the past month. The Tourism Authority of Thailand (TAT) says the number of British visitors to Thailand has increased since last year and the Post Office claims it has sold more Thai Baht than in 2009.

But while the prices look great, and in these recessionary times the bigger the bargain the better, there is a downside. The TAT is arguing against the crazy drops in room rates, fearing they spell suicide for the country's tourism industry as a whole.

The official view is that Thailand is already one of the best bargains in Asia and it shouldn't need to slash prices any further, while individual hotel owners feel they have no choice other than dropping rates if they want to fill rooms.

So even though we all love a bargain, what if that bargain does long-term damage to a country and its economy? Does that actually make the price too steep? In this case we reckon Thailand is way too popular to stay this cheap for too long. So book your break now to make the most of the deals before everyone gets the hint and Thailand truly takes off again.

Are you all for taking advantage of the incredible deals or will you be listening to the TAT

I notice this was posted before May 19 and the subsequent bombings.

Sounds like a TAT post to me.

[TheBarbarian]

The fact that more tourists are coming is certainly not a result from the murderous activities of the Thai army or from other government policies. It is simply because the economy is doing much better than a year ago.It would make sense to see how the figures compare with other Asian countries. Bet that the numbers are for more impressive outside of Thailand.

[samjaidee]

Are these statistics based on people passing into Thailand through any/all immigration posts? If that is the case then all people doing visa runs would be considered as tourists since they re-enter the country through immigration.

Thailand is a main hub for flights from all over the world to South East Asia. Visitors to Cambodia will more than likely arrive first in Thailand and then transfer either by air or land to Cambodia. This applies equally to Laos or even Vietnam.

Living in Ho Chi Minh City, I've met many tourists who have first flown into Thailand and then moved on to Cambodia immediately and then on to Vietnam. There are many who used to be regular visitors to Thailand but have become rather disillusioned by the state of the country. (I'm not talking about "sex tourists" in case there's some doubt).

There is a quote frequently attributed to Benjamin Disraeli which has some relevance here: 'There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies, and statistics.'

Not sure what you are trying to say here that hasn't been said over and over again on this thread. Are you saying that these tourists had bad travel agents and didn't know how to fly them into Cambodia's international air port.

No, that's not what I'm saying. That's only your interpretation of what I said.

I think it's fair to say that many, if not a majority of people nowadays use on-line services not travel agents for booking flights.

Flights to Thailand are considerably cheaper than flights direct to Cambodia due to the fact that it is a hub. Does that clarify my post enough for you?

[elcent]

Divide the numbers by two or even three to cut off the Visa Runners and others like business travelers you will have the figures right.

Edited August 4, 2010 by elcent

[RichB]

Who are they trying to convince? It doesn't work with me so they must be trying to convince themselves

there is no need to "convince" anyone.

people from all over the world will ALWAYS come back to Thailand quickly, as it is a desired destination, no matter what those moaners and whiners say.

after all, those moaners and whiners reside in Thailand too, or travel there frequently.

the thing is, people in general forget quickly, and indeed destinations such as Phuket or Samui never had trouble regarding unrest. they may have problems regarding transport-Mafias though, but most tourists care little about that

Thailand is a phenomenon, always bouncing back, no matter what happens (Tsunami, SARS, Bird-Flu, PAD-Airport-occupation, Military Coups, Public unrest......)

the thing is, no other county here in the region offers a similar experience - fantastic value for money when it comes to accomodation, cheap and AROI food, and SANOOK as if there is no tomorrow. plus a pretty good touristic and public infrastructure, including very good hospitals.

you cannot have that in the same way in Indonesia, Malaysia, Vietnam, Philippines, Cambodia, Myanmar.....

that's how it is, and therefore, I will probably not move to anywhere else for the time being, even I acknowledge there is a lot wrong in this country too, in 2010 more than ever before.

Well written analysis above.

I remember a Scottish international football player saying at a special meeting called to discuss conficts and problems within the club in the broadest accent he said in his loud booming voice: " <deleted> king Presidents come and go, <deleted> king Committee Members come and go, <deleted> king Players come and go, but the <deleted> king Club will always be here, so get over it , we're here to play football!!!!!

Long Live Thailand may it always be here and may the Tourists realize Thailand is still the best value, best fun, best shopping, best people, most exciting and safest destination on earth.

[MaiThaiMai]

"He believed that the Thai tourism would apparently recover during the high season of this year if there was no further political violence..."

Great ...give the violence-doers something to shoot for ... literally

MaiThaiMai

:jap:

[Just1Voice]

OP deleted by J1V.

Edited August 4, 2010 by Just1Voice

[LaoPo]

Are these statistics based on people passing into Thailand through any/all immigration posts? If that is the case then all people doing visa runs would be considered as tourists since they re-enter the country through immigration.

Yes; every time a visitor/tourist, businessman/woman is coming from abroad into Thailand by road, rail, plane, boat or even walking...he/she has to fill the entry card and thus is counted as a "new" entry; whether that is as tourist- or business purpose has to be filled in on the entry card.

Anybody who left Thailand -for Cambodia, Malaysia etc- and is returning, is considered to be a "new" tourist......and TAT loves them

LaoPo

[Just1Voice]

Ok, let's try this again, since I can't post Excel in here.

Here's something TAT might want to take a look at:

International visitors to Vietnam in July and 7 months of 2010

July 28, 2010

International visitors to Vietnam in June estimated 410,000 arrivals, increasing by 51.1% over the same period last year. Total international arrivals in 7 months reached 2,920,521 representing a 34.9% growth.

July 2010 (estimate) = 410,000

Accrued for 7 months of 2010 = 2,920,521

July 2010 vs June 2010 (%) = 109.1

July 2010 vs July 2009 (%) = 151.1

7 Mos 2010 vs 7 mos 2009 (%) = 134.9

Granted, while the figures are not as high as those of Thailand (ie. 14 – 15 mil), the growth rate is one that Thailand could only wish they could see.

I would state that if I were a TAT official, I would be worried about the numbers and growth rate, but with typical Thai arrogance, they probably just shrug it off as meaningless, and claim "This is Thailand, and people will always prefer to come here."

Like the Agricultural Minister (I think it was) who claimed that people would always prefer Thai Jasmine Rice over other "inferior" brands. Is that why, in 5 years, Thailand has gone from the #1 rice producer and exporter, controlling over 60% of the market, to just barely 30% , while Vietnam and their "inferior" rice now holds the #1 position?

Edited August 4, 2010 by Just1Voice

[LaoPo]

Like the Agricultural Minister (I think it was) who claimed that people would always prefer Thai Jasmine Rice over other "inferior" brands. Is that why, in 5 years, Thailand has gone from the #1 rice producer and exporter, controlling over 60% of the market, to just barely 30% , while Vietnam and their "inferior" rice now holds the #1 position?

Sorry for going off topic but Thailand is only a small rice producer in comparison to the largest producers India and China; it still is the largest exporter though*

http://www.dangcongsan.vn/cpv/Modules/News_English/News_Detail_E.aspx?CN_ID=410898&CO_ID=30107#TCHDZxnco5bw

Mea Culpa for going off topic.

LaoPo

[Just1Voice]

Like the Agricultural Minister (I think it was) who claimed that people would always prefer Thai Jasmine Rice over other "inferior" brands. Is that why, in 5 years, Thailand has gone from the #1 rice producer and exporter, controlling over 60% of the market, to just barely 30% , while Vietnam and their "inferior" rice now holds the #1 position?

Sorry for going off topic but Thailand is only a small rice producer in comparison to the largest producers India and China; it still is the largest exporter though*

http://www.dangcongs...07#TCHDZxnco5bw

Mea Culpa for going off topic.

LaoPo

You might be correct in regards to China & India, but I was basing my comments on a report in Bangkok Post about a week or so ago that gave the figures of Thailand controlling 60% of the market share, but are now down to 30%. But however you look at it, this time next year Vietnam will be well ahead of Thailand in production and export if the current trend continues.

[JulesMad]

This is complete BS!!! Business have never been so bad as it is now (this year), and it is not getting better soon... TAT can not be believed nor trusted!

[seanocasey]

More "statistics" for us to believe.

Who are they trying to convince? It doesn't work with me so they must be trying to convince themselves

more here.

[Just1Voice]

As I've stated before, my wife worked in the hotel industry for years, and we still have friends who do, and they are all stating that this is the worst they have ever seen it. Today I drove through Chiang Mai, and deliberately through the market by the river just to get an idea. I counted a total of FIVE farang that MIGHT be tourists, and this was around 3:00. Also have a couple of friends who had booths at the Night Bazaar who said they had to "close up shop" as there were simply NO tourists.

Until proven wrong, I honestly believe that TAT is counting all the "visa runners", as well as those mentioned in another post who come from Malaysia for the day, or w/e, simply to shop, as well as those in transit who get off a plane in BKK, only to board another for somewhere else, and have absolutely NO idea of the true number.

[KhunRobert]

I totally agree. I think the number of tourist are going up. But it is not the European tourist we see but more and more Asian tourist, most of them for short term holidays.

And with the business plans of the Thais, my neighbor makes money with his hotel so I build one, the amount of rooms increased quickly and much less than the amount of tourists.

At the end of the day it means that a lot of rooms are empty and nobody is making money anymore. If I see in 300 meter beach road in Ao Nang 8 supermarkets I can not understand

that only 1 of them is making any money. As long as their is no regulation in starting and opening new business the problem for the business owners will get worse.

Shops close down and are being taken over by new renters who think they make the money. Restaurants are opening quicker than I can breathe, most of them with high prices and not

the best service. The European tourist is not the backpacking tourist anymore, cheap cheap and sabai sabai, but a family who likes to have some quality and service.

The first thing what happened is the rents of the shops went sky high, the shops did not want to raise their prices so kicked out their service.

And now their complaining the tourist don't spend money? So they raised their prices. I heard in one restaurant: " We have lost 1/3 of the customers but we need to pay rent, so we put the prices up with 35%".

Get your act together as a shop owner or make the decision: If you don't make the money, take your loss and close down. After all nobody forced you to open in the beginning and if it doesn't work,

well you took the risk. Self-employed and business owner could be good, but there is a risk if your business plan is build on the fact: He makes money so I will do same same.

Even in Thailand: It is same same but different. And the tourist will choose that what they like.

A new business owner in Thailand. If the last papers are ready we will open 1 September 2010. Living here for 7 years before I decided to open up a business.

[KhunRobert]

I totally agree. I think the number of tourist are going up. But it is not the European tourist we see but more and more Asian tourist, most of them for short term holidays.

And with the business plans of the Thais, my neighbor makes money with his hotel so I build one, the amount of rooms increased quickly and much less than the amount of tourists.

At the end of the day it means that a lot of rooms are empty and nobody is making money anymore. If I see in 300 meter beach road in Ao Nang 8 supermarkets I can not understand

that only 1 of them is making any money. As long as their is no regulation in starting and opening new business the problem for the business owners will get worse.

Shops close down and are being taken over by new renters who think they make the money. Restaurants are opening quicker than I can breathe, most of them with high prices and not

the best service. The European tourist is not the backpacking tourist anymore, cheap cheap and sabai sabai, but a family who likes to have some quality and service.

The first thing what happened is the rents of the shops went sky high, the shops did not want to raise their prices so kicked out their service.

And now their complaining the tourist don't spend money? So they raised their prices. I heard in one restaurant: " We have lost 1/3 of the customers but we need to pay rent, so we put the prices up with 35%".

Get your act together as a shop owner or make the decision: If you don't make the money, take your loss and close down. After all nobody forced you to open in the beginning and if it doesn't work,

well you took the risk. Self-employed and business owner could be good, but there is a risk if your business plan is build on the fact: He makes money so I will do same same.

Even in Thailand: It is same same but different. And the tourist will choose that what they like.

A new business owner in Thailand. If the last papers are ready we will open 1 September 2010. Living here for 7 years before I decided to open up a business.

[mommysboy]

COBBLERS !