Al Qaeda To Blame For London's Explosions?

[chuchok]

If its discovered that the bombers are Saudi Arabians, I think the Coalition should immediately invade a country - not Saudi Arabia obviously, but some other one.

Here are some ideas....

France

Tibet

Africa

Scotland

The Moon

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Saudi is perhaps the biggest breeding ground for these types believe it or not.lots of poverty and extreamists with lots of cash.

not sure about moonists though.

[Thomas_Merton]

If its discovered that the bombers are Saudi Arabians, I think the Coalition should immediately invade a country - not Saudi Arabia obviously, but some other one.

Here are some ideas....

France

Tibet

Africa

Scotland

The Moon

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Saudi is perhaps the biggest breeding ground for these types believe it or not.lots of poverty and extreamists with lots of cash.

not sure about moonists though.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

...and Moogists?

[camerata]

IMHO it is an absolute must read for all seriously interested in solutions to this Gordian Knot.

And the solution is... for the West to "proceed with relentless, brutal, and, yes, blood-soaked offensive military actions until we have annihilated the Islamists who threaten us."

Not sure which comic you are reading, but it certainly isn't Imperial Hubris:

That was a quote from the book that appears in the editorial reviews on Amazon.com. According to various reviewers, the author knows the problem all right, but his solution using military might against urban terrorists is a little off the mark.

[camerata]

Saudi is perhaps the biggest breeding ground for these types believe it or not.lots of poverty and extreamists with lots of cash.

Exactly. Virtually all of the Jihadis have been influenced by Wahhabism, the puritanical, fundamentalist brand of Islam that is the official sect in Saudi Arabia and is heavily financed by Saudis. The extremist Wahhabi doctrine is spread through Islamic schools in Pakistan and elsewhere, and has even reached Thailand.

[Zarkow]

George Carlin said something thoughtworthy about drug-dealers and the bankers the laundry the money, that can be translated into this:

"Killing suicide-bombes and other terrorists are stupid - they aren't afraid to die. They are already killing themselfs evey day. If you really want to stop the traningcamps and attacks, start executing a banker, CEO or other people that donate money to these organisations."

FYI, the planning of the 9/11-attack cost, according to the investigation around 'the 20th member", around 500 000 USD$.

[Spee]

Exactly. Virtually all of the Jihadis have been influenced by ... Wahhabism

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Exactly ...

The saving grace is that they are a very small minority of a very large religion and population. I just wish that larger religion and population would take a unified stand against them.

[Thomas_Merton]

IMHO it is an absolute must read for all seriously interested in solutions to this Gordian Knot.

And the solution is... for the West to "proceed with relentless, brutal, and, yes, blood-soaked offensive military actions until we have annihilated the Islamists who threaten us."

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Not sure which comic you are reading, but it certainly isn't Imperial Hubris:

That was a quote from the book that appears in the editorial reviews on Amazon.com. According to various reviewers, the author knows the problem all right, but his solution using military might against urban terrorists is a little off the mark.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Read the book, before quoting other's opinions - especially at these sensitive times, we have a duty to the dead and injured, to be reasonable and correct.

If you want a copy PM me, with an email address, and I’ll send you a pdf version as an attachment to an email.

[camerata]

Anybody spend any time in the Middle East before all this started? I remember travelling through Iran, Afganistan, Pakistan, Bahrain, Kuwait, Iraq and Syria around 1970, and the worst thing that happened was some old guy in Lahore shouted, "Yankee go home!" at me. It's amazing how screwed up the world has become in just 35 years.

[Spee]

Anybody spend any time in the Middle East before all this started?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Only been to Bahrain and Saudi several years ago (post Kuwait war). Bahrain was tolerable and at times pleasant. Saudi was utterly forgettable. What can one say about a country that has religious police?

[Thomas_Merton]

Anybody spend any time in the Middle East before all this started? I remember travelling through Iran, Afganistan, Pakistan, Bahrain, Kuwait, Iraq and Syria around 1970, and the worst thing that happened was some old guy in Lahore shouted, "Yankee go home!" at me. It's amazing how screwed up the world has become in just 35 years.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I have lived and/or worked in the Middle East most of my life for which I have been awarded a doctorate, therefore I suggest, respectfully, should you, or anyone else, genuinely desire an answer to your conundrum, you examine the issues raised in the book Imperial Hubris.

This is not a propaganda attempt on my behalf, but I do feel all thinking citizens of the USA ought to be confronted with the issues raised in this book, before they make up their own minds.

[camerata]

Read the book, before quoting other's opinions - especially at these sensitive times, we have a duty to the dead and injured, to be reasonable and correct.

If you want a copy PM me, with an email address, and I’ll send you a pdf version as an attachment to an email.

Thanks, but I think I'll pass for now. Jason Burke's books seem to cover the subject very well and, being a veteran journalist, he has a very balanced viewpoint.

Edited July 8, 2005 by camerata

[johndoe5555]

Firstly, I want to add my condolances and sympathies to London.

Its too early to say who was behind the bombings, and the truth will not be know for some time. However, instead of jumping to conclusions, like Tony Blair did by using the words "Islamist Terrorists", rather than just "Terrorist", we should step back and look for answers, not from our compliant and controlled media, who simply repeat what the polictical classes want people to think.

Look at the USS Liberty, The Lavon Affair, La Belle disco bombing in Germany, and the truth behind 911, and you will see that causing terror, and trying to blame Arabs is a well known strategy. The recent bombings in Lebanon also seem to bear the hallmark of one well know group of terrorists, trying to blame another.

The terrorists are criminals, they are evil, they are wrong, but lets try and find out who they are, and who is really behind this. Only the politically naive would expect to get the truth from our politicians and press.

You only have to watch the Power of Nightmares, or look at Bush and Blairs lies and spin for a perfect example of what Im taking about.

[Spee]

or look at Bush and Blairs lies and spin for a perfect example of what Im taking about.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Yeah sure, B&B spin flew those planes into the buildings. B&B spin blew up the trains in Madrid & London. B&B spin murdered 100s on innocent tourists in Bali. That's a bit too big of a pill to swallow.

[johndoe5555]

or look at Bush and Blairs lies and spin for a perfect example of what Im taking about.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Yeah sure, B&B spin flew those planes into the buildings. B&B spin blew up the trains in Madrid & London. B&B spin murdered 100s on innocent tourists in Bali. That's a bit too big of a pill to swallow.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Did i say that? I think not.

However, B&B spin on Iraq has killed over 150,000 people and has stoked the furnace of global terrorism for generations to come.

Or are you one of the americans that believe that Saddam was behind 911

[Spee]

Or are you one of the americans that believe that Saddam was behind 911

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Of course not and I don't think any rational person thinks that. However, it is rational to believe that the terrorist pipeline ran directly through Iraq in the Saddam era (probably at the price of a bribe).

By the way American is spelled with capital A.

[johndoe5555]

Or are you one of the americans that believe that Saddam was behind 911

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Of course not and I don't think any rational person thinks that. However, it is rational to believe that the terrorist pipeline ran directly through Iraq in the Saddam era (probably at the price of a bribe).

By the way American is spelled with capital A.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

"..the terrorist pipeline ran directly through Iraq in the Saddam era.." What on earth are you talking about. Either quote facts, or stop this silly slander..it just makes you seem desperate.

By the way, I spell american with a small a.

[Zarkow]

Of course not and I don't think any rational person thinks that. However, it is rational to believe that the terrorist pipeline ran directly through Iraq in the Saddam era (probably at the price of a bribe).

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

It's not rational to believe a lie.

Of the countries in the region, Saddams Iraq, being a cruel place for the wrong it would be, was _not_ a good place to be a radical muslim. Read up on Saddams goverment, their enforment of their laws and the Baath-party's views on religion. (First step on your journey: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ba'ath_Party )

The training-grounds where held elsewhere, as most people already know.

Edited July 8, 2005 by Zarkow

[meom]

Anybody spend any time in the Middle East before all this started? I remember travelling through Iran, Afganistan, Pakistan, Bahrain, Kuwait, Iraq and Syria around 1970, and the worst thing that happened was some old guy in Lahore shouted, "Yankee go home!" at me. It's amazing how screwed up the world has become in just 35 years.

I been working in the Middle East since 1992 and in my opinion it's not so bad as some western media make it out to be. OK I'm basically a money mercenary and don't care much about politics which probably gives me a jaded perspective.

It seems to me that most arabs got pissed off during the 1st intifada when Israel, with American weapons started killing stone throwing children. There's probably more to it but it definately did not go down well in the Arab world when children got killed/murdered. After that things went downhill fast.

[haha]

or look at Bush and Blairs lies and spin for a perfect example of what Im taking about.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Yeah sure, B&B spin flew those planes into the buildings. B&B spin blew up the trains in Madrid & London. B&B spin murdered 100s on innocent tourists in Bali. That's a bit too big of a pill to swallow.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Did i say that? I think not.

However, B&B spin on Iraq has killed over 150,000 people and has stoked the furnace of global terrorism for generations to come.

Or are you one of the americans that believe that Saddam was behind 911

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

not too long ago, people were saying that saddam and bin laden were not allies with one another.

even when zaqawi was actively fighting with the iraqi rebels, they said this.

I don't know if saddam was behind the 911 attack, but I would have to say it's possible.

when the world kicked him out of kuwait, he was pissed. and as we all know, revenge is a big thing in the middle east.

[Tornado]

katort, very

Edited July 8, 2005 by Tornado

[kayo]

Dougla N. Adams may have been a bit of a Nostrodamus:

QUOTE(johndoe5555 @ 2005-07-08 18:24:32)

QUOTE(Spee @ 2005-07-09 01:11:21)

QUOTE(johndoe5555 @ 2005-07-09 01:06:57)

or look at Bush and Blairs lies and spin for a perfect example of what Im taking about.

Yeah sure, B&B spin flew those planes into the buildings. B&B spin blew up the trains in Madrid & London. B&B spin murdered 100s on innocent tourists in Bali. That's a bit too big of a pill to swallow.

Did i say that? I think not.

However, B&B spin on Iraq has killed over 150,000 people and has stoked the furnace of global terrorism for generations to come.

Or are you one of the americans that believe that Saddam was behind 911

DNA:

Humma Kavula: [confronting Zaphod Beeblebrox for the first time after losing the Galactic Presidential Election to him] The election is ancient history, Zaphod. If memory serves, you won, proving that good looks and charm win over brilliance and the ability to govern.

Humma Kavula: [in response to his "Don't Vote for Stupid" campaign] And incidentally... You ARE stupid!

DNA:

Marvin: I've calculated your chance of survival, but I don't think you'll like it.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Barman: Did you say the end of the world is coming? Shouldn't we all lay down on the floor or put paper bags over our heads?

Ford: If you wish.

Barman: Will it help?

Ford: Not at all.

DNA:

Marvin: This will all end in tears.

And as a final Note:

DNA:

Dolphins: [singing] So long, and thanks for all the fish / So sad that it should come to this / We tried to warn you all, but, oh, dear / You may not share out intellect / Which might explain your disrespect / For all the natural wonders that grow around you / So long, so long, and thanks for all the fish!

Dolphins: [singing] The world's about to be destroyed / There's no point getting all annoyed / Lie back and let the planet dissolve around you / Despite those nets of tuna fleets / We thought that most of you were sweet / Especially tiny tots and your pregnant women / So long, so long, so long, so long, so long! So long, so long, so long, so long, so long! So long, so long, and thanks for all the fish!

Dolphin: [singing] If I had just one last wish / I would like a tasty fish!

Dolphin: [singing] If we could just change one thing / We would all have learnt to sing!

Dolphins: [singing] Come one and all / Man and mammal / Side by side / In life's great gene pool!

Dolphins: [singing] So long, so long, so long, so long, so long / So long, so long, so long, so long / So long, so long and thanks for all the fish!

Although posted lightheartedly, it makes me tremendously sad to have to bear the news of this tragedy and my heart goes out to all affected by this pointless, immature, and unfair attack on our capital´s populace.

[Harry2]

Terrorism is an end - to frighten people so that their lives are so disrupted that they become miserable and exert pressure on politicians. Terrorists use crime to do this - they are criminals, nothing more and nothing less.

I don't pretend to know Islam inside out, but I do know that it is neither evil nor horrific - although some individual Muslims are indeed such. As for being uniquely so, Catholicism has shown again and again that if the general message is ignored but instead isolated parts are relied upon (known as 'fundamentalism' - recognise it?), the results are pretty awful - the Spanish Inquisition, the Crusades, etc etc etc. By the way, I'm a practising Catholic and not just papist-bashing.

Harry 2, IMHO I fear that your reaction is exactly what will cause problems and precisely that desired by the murderous scum who orchestrated and executed these attacks. Don't rise to the bait, or we'll simply add petrol to the flames.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Sadman,

I am afraid your reaction is exactly the one that will play into the hands of the Muslim terrorists who organised the slaughter in London - just as they organise similar slaughter around the globe, including of course the good Buddhist people of Southern Thailand. You refuse to even define the enemy who proudly (& accurately) describe themselves as good Muslims following a Muslim agenda. Instead you attempt to smear the issue with the wet, woolly nonsense of calling them simple criminals as if they had parked on a double yellow line or stolen a bottle of milk. The nonsense you spout & the unwillingness to even define the enemy, let alone confront them, can only give them succour in an identical fashion to the way the appeasers nourished Hitler.

Islam is the National Socialism of world religions. It cannot be compared to any of the other great religions. People of all religons need to unite against this uniquely evil, antagonistic & murderous religion.

[kreon]

or look at Bush and Blairs lies and spin for a perfect example of what Im taking about.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Yeah sure, B&B spin flew those planes into the buildings. B&B spin blew up the trains in Madrid & London. B&B spin murdered 100s on innocent tourists in Bali. That's a bit too big of a pill to swallow.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

and good ol' osama bin laden is still leading the life of a riley

[Zarkow]

Sadman,

I am afraid your reaction is exactly the one that will play into the hands of the Muslim terrorists who organised the slaughter in London - just as they organise similar slaughter around the globe, including of course the good Buddhist people of Southern Thailand. You refuse to even define the enemy who proudly (& accurately) describe themselves as good Muslims following a Muslim agenda. Instead you attempt to smear the issue with the wet, woolly nonsense of calling them simple criminals as if they had parked on a double yellow line or stolen a bottle of milk. The nonsense you spout & the unwillingness to even define the enemy, let alone confront them, can only give them succour in an identical fashion to the way the appeasers nourished Hitler.

Islam is the National Socialism of world religions. It cannot be compared to any of the other great religions. People of all religons need to unite against this uniquely evil, antagonistic & murderous religion.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Your posts is a frightening show how ignorance is spread throughout the world - and you don't even have a dictatorship as goverment and have access to a (reasonable) amount of free sources to form your own opinion.

Hey Mr Hater, ever read the Quran?

You might even discover that it's more liberal then the bible. Not that you care, you are on a mission.

Amazingly it only took you this few posts to mention Hitler and National Socialism too.

[haha]

or look at Bush and Blairs lies and spin for a perfect example of what Im taking about.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Yeah sure, B&B spin flew those planes into the buildings. B&B spin blew up the trains in Madrid & London. B&B spin murdered 100s on innocent tourists in Bali. That's a bit too big of a pill to swallow.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

and good ol' osama bin laden is still leading the life of a riley

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

soon, the world will not rely on fossil fuels like they do now. when this occurs, do you think the western world will forget what the terrorists have done? will they forget that muslims were behind these attacks?

I don't think so.

when this happens, when the world doesn't depend on oil anymore, what will the middle east do? their main resource was oil.

if the muslims in the middle east want help from the rest of the world when this time arrives, they had better start cleaning up their act now.

[johndoe5555]

People of all religons need to unite against this uniquely evil, antagonistic & murderous religion.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Your attitude is indeed frightening, and shows how easy it is for the media to brainwash people. Even in the absence of facts, you choose to hysterically spout vicious hatered.

Tell me, what has any of this go to do with religion?

This is what our politicians would like us to believe, as they discourage examination of the real causes of these acts. To even discuss why these violent, cruel acts are happening, is deemed heresy, or unpatriotic. Just apply the label "islamic" and everything falls into place for the idiot citizen, who obediently starts foaming at the mouth, and willingly breaks into the recital of "they hate our freedom" mantra, and limits their view of history and events to the previous week.

Throughout history, these scare tactics have been used to mobilise the american public agains imaginary bogeymen, remember McCarthyism and Communists?

Regardless of who is behind these acts, it is political not religious, and you need to get that through your thick head. And please dont quote me anything from the american media, as they have attributed actions and ideologies to figures like Saddam, OBL and Zarquawi to frighten people into supporting their own twisted plans for control of land and resources of the middle east, as well as the enaction of domestic laws designed to extend the power of the state to control the lives of citizens

I ask you one again to consider that this is nothing to do with religion, and everthing to do with politics, and I also ask you try and educate yourself to the truth of whats going on.

[haha]

People of all religons need to unite against this uniquely evil, antagonistic & murderous religion.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Your attitude is indeed frightening, and shows how easy it is for the media to brainwash people. Even in the absence of facts, you choose to hysterically spout vicious hatered.

Tell me, what has any of this go to do with religion?

This is what our politicians would like us to believe, as they discourage examination of the real causes of these acts. To even discuss why these violent, cruel acts are happening, is deemed heresy, or unpatriotic. Just apply the label "islamic" and everything falls into place for the idiot citizen, who obediently starts foaming at the mouth, and willingly breaks into the recital of "they hate our freedom" mantra, and limits their view of history and events to the previous week.

Throughout history, these scare tactics have been used to mobilise the american public agains imaginary bogeymen, remember McCarthyism and Communists?

Regardless of who is behind these acts, it is political not religious, and you need to get that through your thick head. And please dont quote me anything from the american media, as they have attributed actions and ideologies to figures like Saddam, OBL and Zarquawi to frighten people into supporting their own twisted plans for control of land and resources of the middle east, as well as the enaction of domestic laws designed to extend the power of the state to control the lives of citizens

I ask you one again to consider that this is nothing to do with religion, and everthing to do with politics, and I also ask you try and educate yourself to the truth of whats going on.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

you should listen to what you are saying.

there are so many sources of information depicting the evils commited by totalitarian communism in the last century, your claim that it did not happen is hard to believe.

imaginery bogeyman? I don't think so.

http://www.hawaii.edu/powerkills/20TH.HTM

brainwash us? ...what are you trying to do? tell us that the terrorists are our friends?

http://www.ogrish.com/beheading_videos.html

actually, I think the media in your country has brainwashed you into believing it's all about oil. that's why you guys keep talking about it all the time.

[johndoe5555]

HaHa,

McCarthyism was nothing to do about righting the wrongs of communisim, and everything to do with domest witch hunts. It used the fear of communism for political ends, just as the communists did with their potrayal of america.

Lets examine the references you provided. This includes a section called:

STATISTICS OF DEMOCIDE

Chapter 13

Death By American Bombing

And Other Democide

This sections details the huge anount of deaths caused by america, so by your simplistic world view, you would blame democracy for mass murders also.

As for your second reference to the videos of beheadings, I would refer you to the use of Napalm in Falluja, and the killings of doctors and nurses by the americans to preven the news of this emerging. For every beheading, there are 1000 dead iraqui civilians, so keep it in perspective.

As far as I can see, it takes more guts to behead a person with a knife, then to murder wedding parties and hundreds of civilians by a video game controlled, satellite guided, uraium tipped missile. Whats the difference?

Politicians of all colors are not to be believed, nor trusted.

[Boo]

Admin beleive this topic has now runs it's course ...so

Please go to the bearpit to discuss the political side of this discussion as we feel that it is turnuing into a political & racial discussion as apposed to the discussion of the bombings.

Thanks