Tragic Story Of A Sheffield Pensioner

[wolf5370]

Sad story, this man became very ill. I think the hospital is getting a bad rap medical care is not free any were.

this man lived for 70 years where it is FREE, may he rip.

Except for all of the taxes he paid into the system.

Or someone paid into the system. It is not a case of, if you paid in X you will get treatment up to Y. Any Brit gets the same NHS coverage (give or take millitary hospitals) regardless of payments made under NI and Income Tax. When I first came here I could not get insurance as the insurance companies wanted a WP - even though I had a long term (1 year) Visa. The reason was in case I ran off - I explained as I pay in full at the outset how will running off not be a boon to them? So, year one I insured my wife and kids, but went without it myself. Mid 30's at the time and no medical problems .

In the UK I went to get insurance for a mortgage I had. As I was overweight at the time (by BMI) they sent me to Harley Street for a medical and bloods. They expected me to have blood pressure or blood chem problems, but I came up clear (in fact I was exactly where any healthy person would be on all stats inluding Cholestrol). I was sent for a further 3 medicals with different doctors before I got the insurance (they just didn't believe I didn't have high blood pressure - I wasn't exactly a blimp!) - which they loaded anyway, and thus I cancelled (medical costs for the tests were probably quite steep, so som num nah to them - they pay for tests). As a pescitarian (i.e. no meat other than fish/seafood) the only fat I consume is from vegitables and eggs (I don't eat butter because I don't like it) - so even when I'm overweight, my blood is quite good (good types of fats as opposed to plaque causing bad fats). The other problem is that they work out this expectation on BMI - which is a ratio of weight and height, but takes no account of build. As an ex-rugby player I have always been stocky, even in my very fit youth I weighed heavy though I had almost no fat - because of bone density and muscle. Now I'm not fit at all, and have a spare tyre, I still have the muscle and bone density underneath - its just my build.

[BusyBee123]

nothing tragic or unfortunate, he didn't have insurance whats tragic about that? yes he died so what this has nothing to do with thai hospitals, you pay your insurance you get treated what's so difficult to understand. If an uninsured driver smashed into you would you be saying oh dear you're not insured never mind we will fix your car for you dont worry about the millions of people who do pay insurance and pay more because of people like you, we'll fix it no problem wouldn't want you to lose your car.

[soihok]

nothing tragic or unfortunate, he didn't have insurance whats tragic about that? yes he died so what this has nothing to do with thai hospitals, you pay your insurance you get treated what's so difficult to understand. If an uninsured driver smashed into you would you be saying oh dear you're not insured never mind we will fix your car for you dont worry about the millions of people who do pay insurance and pay more because of people like you, we'll fix it no problem wouldn't want you to lose your car.

There's always one.

I guess you maybe a member of the grumpy forum members club that Glitterman keeps mentioning.

[soihok]

Hmmm...maybe the things I've seen in life have hardened me a bit, but...

Guy is 70 years old, doesn't have the money to pay for health insurance, but does have the money to go vacation in Thailand. Were his priorities out of wack, or did he figure he was on his last leg and wanted to squeeze everything he could out of his remaining time on this earth?

Cheers to the insurance company for coughing up some money...highly unexpected! I could see why friends and family would want to try to pay the medical bills to keep the guy alive (love is a powerful emotion), but why should the hospital eat the bill? They don't owe anything to the guy who went to Thailand without insurance or enough money to pay for any illness/injury that may come up while he was there. In fact, if they eat the cost, then their employees and other patients will have to make up that loss of money in the form of salary cuts (or lack of raises) and high cost of healthcare. Not only that, but it would set a bad precedence and the next thing you know everyone would want free medical treatment.

We all die eventually...that lucky guy got to see 70 years of life...I doubt I'll survive to do the same. Hope he enjoyed himself while in the LOS...I want to die there myself someday.

Spot on with the post mate.

I,ll be mighty impressed if I get to see 70, as everyone would wish for.

I have a daughter who is mentally disabled, she is 8 and I cannot find a company to insure her......

[soihok]

Certainly another grumpy forum member.

( Athough his/her post doesn't read like that......still grumpy )

[Jiu-Jitsu]

I have no time for people who travel without insurance, just like those who drive round on bikes without crash helmets and/or not passed a bike driving test.

Having said that...

I do not think HSBC should be praised, they like the other insurance companies treat Travel Insurance as "money for old rope", there are so many conditions and rules that any insurer could find reason to wriggle out of paying on most claims.

For the old the insurance is very expensive, also take the case of a person who who is diagnosed with a terminal condition with that at the time is stable and only require proscribed medication they would like to travel before their condition deteriorates yet the insurance is ridiculously expensive.

I also believe that if a person is paying UK tax and NI at the time of falling ill abroad they should get some subsidy from the NHS, it probably would have been more cheaper to treat Mr Ogden in Thailand than it cost the NHS for the 8 weeks in the UK, If Mr Ogden fell ill in the UK the NHS would have had to pay his full treatment, yet they do not contribute to patients who need to get treatment abroad but teat too many free-loaders who come to the UK just to get free treatment.

I think certain people just use forums as a place to vent. Maybe because they've had a bad day or they just have a cr*p view on life.

I didn't read anywhere that he didn't have travel insurance, only that it expired on his birthday. General travel insurance may cover people up to 65. After that maybe you need to get special quotes for up to 69 years. So it is entirely possible that even though he had travel insurance, it became void on his 70th birthday whilst he was away.

You can't apply for a new policy until you are back in the UK.

This could be a likely reason why HSBC paid out. He was probably a long term customer who kept up with his premiums.

[happylarry]

Get to 65+ and health insurance gets very costly,better for peace of mind to move back to the EU if a EU subject, and get free full medical care. Like Russian roulette staying here.

Just out of interest can anyone say approximately what are the insurance rates per annum when living in Thailand and being 65 and over? Or is it not possible to get insurance at that age?

(I currently live in Thailand and have BUPA)

The trouble isn't always the cost but what the cover offered is. For example if you are typical older person with high blood pressure, high cholesterol, etc. these are considered lifetime chronic conditions so the insurance companies will try to exclude all coverage for diseases of the heart, stroke, etc. In other words, the diseases you are most likely to NEED cover for.

The key is get it while you're healthy and hang on to it. In my case I had a couple of "old age"-related problems, but I weathered the 2-year exclusion provision. In other words, if you can tough it out 2 years without any problems, then they cover everything even the pre-existing condition.

Correction...there are only a handful of companies in the world who offer the two year deal on exclusions, most companies just refuse to cover for any pre-existing conditions. Also you would find it impossible to get health insurance at 70 years old....you need to get insurance before 65 and then keep renewing it year after year.

Many people seem to have missed the point ....the man had insurance but it ceased to exist because he turned 70 while on holiday...well this was either an unfortunate oversight on his part or more likely he decided to gamble his life in order to get an extra couple of days holiday. This is not the hospitals fault nor the insurance company.

HL

[Rimmer]

One post deleted, please note it against forum rules to alter someone else's post in your quoted reply either with font changes, added emoticon, or altered wording.

[barryofthailand]

Sad story, this man became very ill. I think the hospital is getting a bad rap medical care is not free any were.

sorry in belguim they save you first and discus the bill after you are in shape !!!

This should be the case in any hospital but sadly not the case in Thailand.

You only have to read the tragic case of Matt Hayes (do a search on this forum) a lovely guy who had a serious road accident on his motor bike and was refused treatment at Bangkok Pattaya hospital and died on the way to another hospital in Chonburi all because he did not have his wallet on him and could not proof he could pay for treatment. He was only 32 years old.

I new Matt, A very good school teacher from Ohio USA, and yes it was tragic what BHP did. If they had only checked, he was fully insured. The Hospital policies in Thailand are a warning to all foreigners that live here.

Barry

[Tolley]

What is worrying is that you might well have insurance but if you don't have the documents on you in the case of a serious accident you may well be refused treatment.

In the case of accidents minutes may be the difference between life and death.

I have cover but i don't carry it around with me that is for sure.

[barryofthailand]

What is worrying is that you might well have insurance but if you don't have the documents on you in the case of a serious accident you may well be refused treatment.

In the case of accidents minutes may be the difference between life and death.

I have cover but i don't carry it around with me that is for sure.

Easy to solve. Show the hospital of your choice your insurance documents, have them verify your coverage, and enter it in their computer. this way, if your ever in an accident, and even unconscious, they will know you are insured. They always call the insurance company to verify coverage when you are admitted.

Barry

[Suradit]

Travelling without travel insurance, or living here without health insurance is playing with fire. If you can't afford a decent policy you shouldn't really be here!

Why should friends and family bail you out - it's about personal responsibility.

Unfortunately that's true. If the hospitals give "free" treatment, the money will eventually have to be made up by charging everyone else more. And if they have to treat people without insurance, then why should anyone bother paying for insurance?

In the UAE they had a very liberal policy regarding treatment of people resident in the country and the system became swamped with people who took advantage of the compassionate attitude.

Of course if you live in a country where medical treatment is provided by the state, it's still not free. It's the government and, therefore the citizens, who are paying the bill.

[THAILIBAN]

instead of tracking each tourists steps day-by-day in a paranoid way as planned, Thai immigration should rather require proof of an insurance when a tourist enters the country. that way, TREATMENT would come first before PAYMENT, because all hospitals would be assured that a foreigner actually IS insured. but such thing will probably not happen anytime soon.....

[thaibeachlovers]

It's a good thing that he wasn't on holiday in America or the bill would have been ten times as much.

And big respect to HSBC for paying the bills of a long standing customer even though his insurance had expired. That sort of attitude is almost unknown in todays world of impersonal corporations.

Agreed about the cost. Actually I thought what they were asking was pretty reasonable. It's not a charity.

I once asked about staying in LOS after 65 when health insurance becomes very expensive, and the best advice I could find was to live very carefully and hope for the best.

As I won't be able to afford it then, I guess I just have to hope that when the end comes, it's quick and painless. I'd rather live happily here for a short while, than cold, lonely and miserable for a long time back in the "home country", even if they might keep me alive for free, assuming the public health hasn't gone broke by then.

[thaibeachlovers]

What is worrying is that you might well have insurance but if you don't have the documents on you in the case of a serious accident you may well be refused treatment.

In the case of accidents minutes may be the difference between life and death.

I have cover but i don't carry it around with me that is for sure.

Easy to solve. Show the hospital of your choice your insurance documents, have them verify your coverage, and enter it in their computer. this way, if your ever in an accident, and even unconscious, they will know you are insured. They always call the insurance company to verify coverage when you are admitted.

Barry

I have a small card with the policy number and phone number in my wallet. Easy.

Even if you are unconcious, they will check your wallet for your ID.

[Basil B]

What is worrying is that you might well have insurance but if you don't have the documents on you in the case of a serious accident you may well be refused treatment.

In the case of accidents minutes may be the difference between life and death.

I have cover but i don't carry it around with me that is for sure.

Easy to solve. Show the hospital of your choice your insurance documents, have them verify your coverage, and enter it in their computer. this way, if your ever in an accident, and even unconscious, they will know you are insured. They always call the insurance company to verify coverage when you are admitted.

Barry

I have a small card with the policy number and phone number in my wallet. Easy.

Even if you are unconcious, they will check your wallet for your ID.

You get mugged, your wallets stolen, and you need urgent hospital treatment, now where is your card?

[jori]

You do not need a card for specific insurance details,just something written in Thai like do not take me to BPH,International,or the other one. Banglamung or Sattahip will do fine.

[haroldc]

If you don't have insurance or think that your insurance won't cover the expense of a private hospital, first go to the provincial government hospital (not the amphur hospital). If your condition is serious, get stabilized and then transferred to Chulalongkorn, Ramathibodi, or Sirirat in Bangkok; or Srinakarin in Khon Kaen; etc. These are all government university teaching hospitals, and the quality of medical care is probably the best available in Thailand.

Government hospitals are much less expensive than private hospitals. If you can deal with sleeping in a ward and having examinations by a professor of medicine and 10-15 students 3 times a day, the cost is only a few hundred baht per night. I spent 5 nights in a Ramathibodi ward with about 100 patients. There was one man near my bed who was in really bad shape - machines and tubes connected everywhere imaginable. I swear, there was a nurse and sometimes 2 or 3 nurses at his bed every 20 minutes, 24 hours per day. I speak Thai, and I could hear what they were saying while they took care of him. I was really impressed by their attitude and concern. And the care that I got, not that I needed all that much, was also first rate.

I had a micro-surgery procedure that would have cost me about US $10,000 (320,000 baht) in the USA. To do it in a Thai private hospital would have been about 120,000 baht. The total bill at Ramathibodi was only 19,500 baht. If you have Thai Taxpayer ID card like I do, they charge you the same rate as a Thai. They told me that if I wasn't a taxpayer, the cost would have been about 24,000 (20% more).

The surgery was done by a team of six doctors led by a professor at Mahidol University who established the first micro-surgery team in Thailand. I searched his name on the Google, and he is certainly is an internationally recognized expert. And at government hospitals, there is no fee for the doctors themselves!

I actually have a Thai health insurance policy. But if I were really sick, even if my policy fully covered the cost of treatment in a private hospital, I wouldn't go anywhere but to a government university teaching hospital.

[GaryB7471]

In the US this man would have been treated and then they would have discussed the bill. It would have been very expensive for sure. In the US if you can't pay the hospital writes the bill off there taxes and then they give you a bad credit rating. That is it. 9 out of 10 hospitals in the US accept government funding so they have to treat you. Private hospitals have to treat emergencies until the patient is stable enough to transfer. It is a terrible story but he may have still been alive if this happened in the US.