Grid Vs Cu

[Crossy]

The Electrical Safety Council have a useful document with clear diagrams http://www.esc.org.uk/pdfs/business-and-community/electrical-industry/E45-25.pdf

They also have other handy documents for download, well worth a look http://www.esc.org.uk/business-and-community/electrical-industry/best-practice-guides.html

Edited August 12, 2010 by Crossy

[electau]

The third picture shows an earth rod of 2.4m length dug 0.3m in the ground. I have previously on TV been advised that the rod, according to AS3000 that is, should stick 0.3m above the ground so clamped earth wire is visible, where the above ground part be painted with acrylic paint.

Can someone clarify this please.

Under AS3000/2007 rule 5.5.1.2 Conection to earth electrode.

(a) be accessible for visual inspection and for the purposes of testing; and

( be made by means of a suitable device in accordance with the manufacturers specification that provides adeququate electrical conductivity; and

© provide protection against mechanical damage likely to occur to the main earthing conductor or the connection to the electrode at the location, in accordance with clause 5.5.5.2; and

(d) be suitably protected against corrosion in accordance with clause 5.5.5.3

NOTES:

1.Where necessary, access by means of an underground pit with its cover accessible above ground is considered acceptable, provided adequate space is available for the connection of test leads and the pit is suitably identified as to its purpose.

2.Where reinforcing steel is used as the earth electrode, this testing condition is deemed to be satisfied by the provision of a test point on the main earthing electrode.

　

Should read a b c d and no smileys can not get rid of them

　

Edited August 12, 2010 by electau
fixed the bullet labels :)

[Crossy]

Electau. If you use a. b. c. d. or put a space before the ) then you should have no problem

You can also use list tags in the Full Editor, use [list=A] for alphabetic or [list=1] for mumeric :-

[list=A]
[*]Item 1
[*]Item 2
[*]Item 3
[*]Item 4
[/list]

Gives:-

1. Item 1
   
2. Item 2
   
3. Item 3
   
4. Item 4
   

Edited August 12, 2010 by Crossy

[electau]

Electau. If you use a. b. c. d. or put a space before the ) then you should have no problem

You can also use list tags in the Full Editor, use [list=A] for alphabetic or [list=1] for mumeric :-

[list=A]
[*]Item 1
[*]Item 2
[*]Item 3
[*]Item 4
[/list]

Gives:-

1. Item 1
2. Item 2
3. Item 3
4. Item 4

Thanks for that info Crossy.

[electau]

The Electrical Safety Council have a useful document with clear diagrams http://www.esc.org.u...stry/E45-25.pdf

They also have other handy documents for download, well worth a look http://www.esc.org.u...ice-guides.html

There are differences in the practical application of the TN-C-S (MEN) in the UK and in Australia/NZ. which have to be recognised.The TT system is also used as well as the TN-C-S in the UK, in Australia the TT system it is not used. There are exceptions but they fall under AS3007.

[Crossy]

There are differences in the practical application of the TN-C-S (MEN) in the UK and in Australia/NZ. which have to be recognised.The TT system is also used as well as the TN-C-S in the UK, in Australia the TT system it is not used. There are exceptions but they fall under AS3007.

Indeed, and since Thailand is governed by neither set of rules a pragmatic approach is required.

There is no one 'right' way to do the job, unfortunately most local sparkies relish finding as many of the wrong ways as they can

[eraymos]

No problem eraymos, glad the drawings were of use, I've got the original Visio drawings somewhere if you want them

I agree electau, I REALLY don't like the Thai way of linking N and E although that's how it's shown in all the local drawings I have and in the PEA guidance booklet. It makes it very difficult to remove the N - E link for testing purposes

Hmmm, 'testing' and 'Thailand', sadly two words not normally associated

EDIT I'd also add to electau's comment on diagram 2 that there is no single point of isolation. i.e. no one breaker to turn off the entire installation. Whilst not an absolute requirement of BS7671 it is considered good practice (at least in domestic installations) to have one breaker that kills everything.

EDIT 2 Actually, diagram 1 would not comply with BS7671:2008 (17th Edition) as that requires all circuits to be RCD protected, it does however comply with the previous 16th Edition.

Thanks Crossy., It would be nice to have the drawings if you can find them.

As far as what Schneider told me, that was the reason I had asked Elkangorito to help me come up with a new CU configuration. I don't know to much, but I did not feel comfotable with what S.E.T showed me.

If you guys remember my earlier postings (In house electrics, where do i go from here) you will see that with Elk's help I changed the configuration

[Khonwan]

　

...
Should read a b c d  and no smileys can not get rid of them
...

　

When composing your post, see "Click to configure post options" just above "Add Reply" then uncheck "Enable emoticons"

[powderpuff]

There is no one "right" way to do the job,

Best single piece of advice I have ever read on DIY forum.

"Best Practice" yes - but differs according to customers installation.

[eraymos]

The third picture shows an earth rod of 2.4m length dug 0.3m in the ground. I have previously on TV been advised that the rod, according to AS3000 that is, should stick 0.3m above the ground so clamped earth wire is visible, where the above ground part be painted with acrylic paint.

Can someone clarify this please.

I picked up one like this in England.

[electau]

There is no one "right" way to do the job,

Best single piece of advice I have ever read on DIY forum.

"Best Practice" yes - but differs according to customers installation.

There is only one "right way" and that is the one that complies with the wiring standard that is currently in use, AS3000 or BS7671 or IEC60364 as applicable. That is why one has to be able to interpret the requirements. There are of course some local requirements that have to be complied with.

Problems arise because of the fact that there is no recognised Thai Standard on electrical installations.

So to obtain compliance we use one of the above standards.

　

[Crossy]

There is only one "right way" and that is the one that complies with the wiring standard that is currently in use, AS3000 or BS7671 or IEC60364 as applicable. That is why one has to be able to interpret the requirements. There are of course some local requirements that have to be complied with.

Problems arise because of the fact that there is no recognised Thai Standard on electrical installations.

So to obtain compliance we use one of the above standards.

I can't speak for the Aussie regs, but certainly in regard to BS7671 there are multiple 'right' ways of doing many things, provided you comply with the regulation in question (some of which are very open to interpretation, visit the IET forums to view some lively discussions). For example for something as simple as running a dropper down from the ceiling space to an outlet there are at least four legitimate solutions all of which comply. It's down to the contractor / designer to decide which is best in each circumstance.

The water is muddied further (as you rightly note) by there being no Thai standard.

As there is no local standard to comply with, we cannot produce a compliant installation.

As I noted previously, a pragmatic approach is required to produce an installation that is safe and (importantly) readily understood and maintained by the local talent (so no UK style ring mains).

Over the years the forum has determined that AS3000 is probably the best basis for installations here (being intended for tropical climes and somewhat similar to what's already being installed), but rather than being a slave to our own regs (which may not apply here) we should concentrate on having a Thai style layout (with certain important exceptions like the way MEN is implemented in the CU) that is installed to Western standards.

Edited August 12, 2010 by Crossy

[electau]

A basic standard for Thai residential electrical installations is required and AS3000 is most probably the best standard to base it on as it maintains alingment with IEC6036 developments at the level of essential safety. It also provides a mechanism for acceptance of alternative design and installation practices that are not addressed in AS3000.

　

[stgrhe]

The third picture shows an earth rod of 2.4m length dug 0.3m in the ground. I have previously on TV been advised that the rod, according to AS3000 that is, should stick 0.3m above the ground so clamped earth wire is visible, where the above ground part be painted with acrylic paint.

Can someone clarify this please.

I picked up one like this in England.

Great idea, thanks! I suppose these things are not available here but I will use one designed for drainage systems although they are a bit larger.

[elkangorito]

I can't speak for the Aussie regs, but certainly in regard to BS7671 there are multiple 'right' ways of doing many things, provided you comply with the regulation in question (some of which are very open to interpretation, visit the IET forums to view some lively discussions). For example for something as simple as running a dropper down from the ceiling space to an outlet there are at least four legitimate solutions all of which comply. It's down to the contractor / designer to decide which is best in each circumstance.

The water is muddied further (as you rightly note) by there being no Thai standard.

As there is no local standard to comply with, we cannot produce a compliant installation.

As I noted previously, a pragmatic approach is required to produce an installation that is safe and (importantly) readily understood and maintained by the local talent (so no UK style ring mains).

Over the years the forum has determined that AS3000 is probably the best basis for installations here (being intended for tropical climes and somewhat similar to what's already being installed), but rather than being a slave to our own regs (which may not apply here) we should concentrate on having a Thai style layout (with certain important exceptions like the way MEN is implemented in the CU) that is installed to Western standards.

I wholeheartedly agree Crossy.

Aus Standards do provide a wide scope of system design, which requires the designer to be fully knowledgeable of all technical aspects regarding 'wiring'.

Since there is no local Thai Standard to which to comply, safety (IMHO) becomes a rather important word. A 'safe' installation may not necessarily comply with Aus &/or IEC regs but it will nonetheless be safe for the homeowner.

Being a 'slave to regs' is an easy avenue for anybody to take. Thailand provides an opportunity for any knowledgeable & experienced electrical person to not be so restrictive but at the same time, ensure maximum safety is achieved for any installation.

To anybody who is interested, attached is the outline of what "AS300:2007 A1" is meant to do. AS3000:2007 A1 consists of 2 parts. This the legislated Standard in Australia for 'Wiring'. It pertains only to the TN-C-S system & as such, departures from the Standard must be made in order to provide a 'safe' installation in Thailand, since many Earthing Systems in Thailand are IT or otherwise.

AS3000_2007_A1 forward.txt

Edited August 13, 2010 by elkangorito

[electau]

An electrical installation must be free of electrical risk as far as is practicable. That the effects of likely harm to persons or property is minimised. AS3000 achieves this result.

And in Thailand AS3000 can easily be adapted for the TT or IT systems as follows.

1. On TT and IT earthing systems DO NOT install the MEN link, and on ALL final subcircuits, using the TT or IT systems, RCDs. must be installed.

All the existing requirements of AS3000 can be maintained. Earth fault protection times have not been compromised.

Actual standard wiring practice and how it can be implemented in Thailand is what is required.

Most of the discussions involve earthing and installation of RCD/RCBOs.

　

　

[Crossy]

^^^ Isn't that what we're saying in essence?

[powderpuff]

Quickest way to insanity? Come to Thailand & expect the locals to do stuff "your way".