Being With Someone Underage

[IanForbes]

I think that you have to be as charming and fit as Ian to get away with that one. I always get slapped when I try that line!

Actually, you are not far wrong, Ulysses. It's amazing what some guys can say and get away with when other men get their faces slapped for doing the same thing. I've known more than a few men who could walk up to just about any woman and chat her up until she was eating out of his hand. And, it wasn't always because of handsome good looks. The guys just had some sort of magnetic appeal to women.

[astral]

I am not sure about UK law, but US law makes it illegal for an adult to have sex with anyone under 18 regardless of the local laws.

In the UK you can get married at 16.

Minimum Age

The minimum legal age for getting married is 16 years old. In England and Wales the written consent of the parents or Guardians is required for persons who have not reached 18 years old and have not been previously married. If either of the persons is below 18 a birth certificate must be produced. It is preferred that all persons produce such evidence.

[IanForbes]

Every case is unique in its own right. Self righteous bigots have always stuck their noses in places where they don't belong. The famous case about Jerry Lee Lewis, the rock singer musician, is a good example.

According to Wickipedia...

"Lewis's turbulent personal life was hidden from the public until a May 1958 British tour where Ray Berry, a news agency reporter at London's Heathrow Airport (the only journalist present), learned about Lewis's third wife, Myra Gale Brown. She was Lewis's first cousin once removed^[9][10] and only 13 years old. (Brown, Lewis, and his management all insisted she was 15). Lewis was nearly 23 years old. When he married Myra Gale Brown in December 1957, their marriage caused a scandal which destroyed his career for a decade. They had two children and divorced in December 1970 after 13 years of marriage. The publicity caused an uproar and the tour was cancelled after only three concerts.

The scandal followed Lewis home to America, and as a result, he was blacklisted from radio and almost vanished from the music scene. Lewis felt betrayed by numerous people who had been his supporters. Dick Clark dropped him from his shows. Lewis even felt that Sam Phillips had sold him out when the Sun Records boss released "The Return of Jerry Lee", a bogus "interview" cut together by Jack Clement from excerpts of Lewis's songs, which made light of his marital and publicity problems. Only Alan Freed stayed true to Jerry Lee Lewis, playing his records until Freed was removed from the air because of payola allegations."

The fact that their marriage lasted 13 years and they had 2 children together seems lost on the self righteous bigots of the world.

[twschw]

Title 18, Part I, Chapter 117, Section 2423, Subsection C of US federal law states:

"© Engaging in Illicit Sexual Conduct in Foreign Places.— Any United States citizen or alien admitted for permanent residence who travels in foreign commerce, and engages in any illicit sexual conduct with another person shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than 30 years, or both."

(f) Definition.— As used in this section, the term “illicit sexual conduct” means

"(1) a sexual act (as defined in section 2246) with a person under 18 years of age that would be in violation of chapter 109A if the sexual act occurred in the special maritime and territorial jurisdiction of the United States; or

(2) any commercial sex act (as defined in section 1591) with a person under 18 years of age."

FYI: Definition of "special maritime and territorial jurisdiction of the United States"

TITLE 18 > PART I > CHAPTER 1 > § 7

§ 7. Special maritime and territorial jurisdiction of the United States defined.

The term “special maritime and territorial jurisdiction of the United States”, as used in this title, includes:

(1) The high seas, any other waters within the admiralty and maritime jurisdiction of the United States and out of the jurisdiction of any particular State, and any vessel belonging in whole or in part to the United States or any citizen thereof, or to any corporation created by or under the laws of the United States, or of any State, Territory, District, or possession thereof, when such vessel is within the admiralty and maritime jurisdiction of the United States and out of the jurisdiction of any particular State.

(2) Any vessel registered, licensed, or enrolled under the laws of the United States, and being on a voyage upon the waters of any of the Great Lakes, or any of the waters connecting them, or upon the Saint Lawrence River where the same constitutes the International Boundary Line.

(3) Any lands reserved or acquired for the use of the United States, and under the exclusive or concurrent jurisdiction thereof, or any place purchased or otherwise acquired by the United States by consent of the legislature of the State in which the same shall be, for the erection of a fort, magazine, arsenal, dockyard, or other needful building.

(4) Any island, rock, or key containing deposits of guano, which may, at the discretion of the President, be considered as appertaining to the United States.

(5) Any aircraft belonging in whole or in part to the United States, or any citizen thereof, or to any corporation created by or under the laws of the United States, or any State, Territory, district, or possession thereof, while such aircraft is in flight over the high seas, or over any other waters within the admiralty and maritime jurisdiction of the United States and out of the jurisdiction of any particular State.

(6) Any vehicle used or designed for flight or navigation in space and on the registry of the United States pursuant to the Treaty on Principles Governing the Activities of States in the Exploration and Use of Outer Space, Including the Moon and Other Celestial Bodies and the Convention on Registration of Objects Launched into Outer Space, while that vehicle is in flight, which is from the moment when all external doors are closed on Earth following embarkation until the moment when one such door is opened on Earth for disembarkation or in the case of a forced landing, until the competent authorities take over the responsibility for the vehicle and for persons and property aboard.

(7) Any place outside the jurisdiction of any nation with respect to an offense by or against a national of the United States.

(8) To the extent permitted by international law, any foreign vessel during a voyage having a scheduled departure from or arrival in the United States with respect to an offense committed by or against a national of the United States.

(9) With respect to offenses committed by or against a national of the United States as that term is used in section 101 of the Immigration and Nationality Act—

A. the premises of United States diplomatic, consular, military or other United States Government missions or entities in foreign States, including the buildings, parts of buildings, and land appurtenant or ancillary thereto or used for purposes of those missions or entities, irrespective of ownership; and

B. residences in foreign States and the land appurtenant or ancillary thereto, irrespective of ownership, used for purposes of those missions or entities or used by United States personnel assigned to those missions or entities.

Nothing in this paragraph shall be deemed to supersede any treaty or international agreement with which this paragraph conflicts. This paragraph does not apply with respect to an offense committed by a person described in section 3261 (a) of this title.

Basically everywhere except in a foriegn nation. I particularly like number 6.

[Samuian]

30 and 17?

Did I understand it correct?

What does a 30 and a 17 year old talk about?

I normally have no problem with age differences.

Even 80/25 is much much better than 30/17.

I think either the OP must be extremely naive/immature, or he is trolling.

I bet it is the latter.

"i'll top that bet!

if not and the OP the sort of character who is drooling about,

the OP needs certainly help!

[Johpa]

Age of consent....troll....the real issue is how someone who writes so poorly could pretend to become an English teacher. But hey, welcome to ThaiVisa circa 2010.

[Pdaz]

So much for 'The Land of the Free'' Even when they are overseas big Govt is ruling their lives... Wouldn't want to be an American in Amsterdam ...

[bonobo]

So much for 'The Land of the Free''   Even when they are overseas big Govt is ruling their lives... Wouldn't want to be an American in Amsterdam  ...

 Not to keep this off-topic, but I believe that under-age sex is one of the few things for which the US government can prosecute an American for things done outside of US jurisdiction.  Smoking pot in Amsterdam by an American is not a crime and cannot be prosecuted.  (although the military has prosecuted soldiers for "possession" when they came back to Army bases with THC in their system, hence the "possession.")

[carmine]

I think that you have to be as charming and fit as Ian to get away with that one. I always get slapped when I try that line!

Actually, you are not far wrong, Ulysses. It's amazing what some guys can say and get away with when other men get their faces slapped for doing the same thing. I've known more than a few men who could walk up to just about any woman and chat her up until she was eating out of his hand. And, it wasn't always because of handsome good looks. The guys just had some sort of magnetic appeal to women.

Lots of my mates have asked me my secret Ian and i can't explain...its a natural instinct i think.

[GuestHouse]

Every case is unique in its own right. Self righteous bigots have always stuck their noses in places where they don't belong.

That of course closes the door on any opinion that disagrees with your own unless the owner of that opinion wishes to branded a self righteous bigot.

I'll leave it to you to look up the meaning of the word 'Bigot'.

[David006]

I was just in Phuket and a Thai friends Thai male cousin ( maybe 24yo) was working for her...My Thai friend told me that the lad had just got out of jail ( 4 years!!) for sleeping with 14 year old.

Apparently the girl went to his house uninvited..yada yada yada...

So then the girls mother says pay up big money or marry her, he says no and so she dobbed him to the police.

Looks like you better upstakes mate..the old lady sounds like a major potential blackmailer and you a great earner for her! Good luck..

[Chunky1]

Are people actually suggesting that age of consent for prostitution should be made on an individual by individual basis? Scary.

[BSJ]

Well, seeing you like to run across a slippery slope in the rain....what comes next maybe no surprise! Your gunna have to marry the girl!

[smokie36]

I think that you have to be as charming and fit as Ian to get away with that one. I always get slapped when I try that line!

Actually, you are not far wrong, Ulysses. It's amazing what some guys can say and get away with when other men get their faces slapped for doing the same thing. I've known more than a few men who could walk up to just about any woman and chat her up until she was eating out of his hand. And, it wasn't always because of handsome good looks. The guys just had some sort of magnetic appeal to women.

Lots of my mates have asked me my secret Ian and i can't explain...its a natural instinct i think.

You haven't got any mates left carmine....and your wife aint too happy either!

[mark45y]

I was just in Phuket and a Thai friends Thai male cousin ( maybe 24yo) was working for her...My Thai friend told me that the lad had just got out of jail ( 4 years!!) for sleeping with 14 year old.

Apparently the girl went to his house uninvited..yada yada yada...

So then the girls mother says pay up big money or marry her, he says no and so she dobbed him to the police.

Looks like you better upstakes mate..the old lady sounds like a major potential blackmailer and you a great earner for her! Good luck..

This can also happen if the girl is 19 years of age. Check the Thai parental rights laws. She only becomes an adult after 20. Not talking about prostitution laws. There is a difference.

[brewsterbudgen]

I am not sure about UK law, but US law makes it illegal for an adult to have sex with anyone under 18 regardless of the local laws.

In the UK the age of consent (for all forms of sex) is 16.

Not true. In the UK it's illegal to pay for sex with anyone under 18.

[IanForbes]

Every case is unique in its own right. Self righteous bigots have always stuck their noses in places where they don't belong.

That of course closes the door on any opinion that disagrees with your own unless the owner of that opinion wishes to branded a self righteous bigot.

I'll leave it to you to look up the meaning of the word 'Bigot'.

No, it doesn't close the door. But, what it does do is determine who has been harmed and in what way. I'm all for free speech, but I don't have to agree to one country's laws superseding another countries laws. Take for example, Taliban laws where women and children are treated as sex slaves with no rights or freedoms, and it is perfectly okay to stone a young woman to death if she complains about being raped. If you allow one country to make the laws governing every other country then any radical group can impose its own laws elsewhere.

That is why I said a person should go slow when in a foreign country. Learn about the customs and laws BEFORE thinking you are right.

And, I do know the meaning of "bigot"... According to Webster's dictionary... Bigot: (noun) = A fanatical devotee of a single cause. That fits a lot of people I read on these topics.

I would never promote sex with under age young women. But, like the famous Jerry Lee Lewis case, it is not all black or white. Jerry Lee and his young wife were together for 12 years and had two children together. There was no forcing and no physical rape. The couple were happy together. No law was broken except by various US standards.

And, I have no idea WHAT married couples have to talk about or want in their relationship. That is entirely up to them. I can point to the over 50% divorce rate in North America as an example

[GuestHouse]

I would never promote sex with under age young women. But, like the famous Jerry Lee Lewis case, it is not all black or white.

I've never said you do, but you do by your very own arguments fudge the line.

And what's all the bleating on about the Taliban and imposing other nation's laws? Who's imposing what laws from what country?

[Ulysses G.]

Every case is unique in its own right. Self righteous bigots have always stuck their noses in places where they don't belong.

That of course closes the door on any opinion that disagrees with your own unless the owner of that opinion wishes to branded a self righteous bigot.

I do know the meaning of "bigot"... According to Webster's dictionary... Bigot: (noun) = A fanatical devotee of a single cause. That fits a lot of people I read on these topics.

Present company excluded, of course!!!

[Chunky1]

Funny how it is always the underage girl who pursued the male and how the male is always innocent, when you hear the story from the male's perspective.

"We had so much in common, her being my grand-daughter's age and all"

[Ulysses G.]

It is not easy being a righteous man.

[Thakkar]

Upon reading parts of this thread, It occurred to me that perhaps this thread could be better titled: "youngest possible age of sexual consent without legal consequences" Or, more crudely: "How young can I bed 'em"

There's no concern for the adverse effects early sexual activity (particularly with a much older person) can have on a teenager, effects that run the gamut from physical to emotional.

I understand cultural relativism—that things may be different and acceptable in other cultures (different and acceptable, but not necessarily right). And I understand that young people today are more exposed to sexuality through the media and their peer groups. But watching it on TV and talking about it is one thing. Engaging in it, quite another.

With some notable exceptions, the only concern I noticed in the thread was concern for the guy who did the deed. The only victim here is a 17 year old girl who somehow "tricked" a grown 30 year old man into having sex with her. Ignorance is not a defense. To his credit, the OP stopped as soon as he realized she was 17, though only because it's illegal and he feared the consequences. If it were legal he would apparently have had no qualms.

The OP should, anonymously if need be, report the bar owner who's employing underage girls at his bar.

On the other hand, she may well be 22 and just setting the OP up for a shakedown. In any case, my comment still stands: posters here seem less concerned about teenage sex than the legality of it. And that, to me, is cause for dismay.

I realize that moral outrage is considered uncool in these forums. As a sometime over protective father of teenage girls, I'm used to the uncool label.

[DLock]

What I find disturbing is that this thread has the highest number of views on the General Topics page, and so many people dancing around the "age of consent" whilst trying somehow to rationalize it.

The OP was a Troll, but it sure is interesting what he exposed.

[Jingthing]

Not buying it. A 17 year old peddling it on Beach Road is not a victim. She's a young business woman. The age of consent is 18 but the age of reason of being a sucker knows no bounds. I am not saying there aren't victims aged 17 or age 50, just this case doesn't sound like one. The law is one thing, reality is another. You devalue the word victim by calling a 17 year old actively hooking a victim. Caveats, unless there are circumstances such as being controlled by a pimp, sexual slavery, etc.

Definition of victim --

vic·tim

   /ˈvɪktɪm/ Show Spelled[vik-tim] Show IPA

–noun

1.

a person who suffers from a destructive or injurious action or agency: a victim of an automobile accident.

2.

a person who is deceived or cheated, as by his or her own emotions or ignorance, by the dishonesty of others, or by some impersonal agency: a victim of misplaced confidence; the victim of a swindler; a victim of an optical illusion.

3.

a person or animal sacrificed or regarded as sacrificed: war victims.

4.

a living creature sacrificed in religious rites.

Edited August 14, 2010 by Jingthing

[Thakkar]

Not buying it. A 17 year old peddling it on Beach Road is not a victim. She's a young business woman. The age of consent is 18 but the age of reason of being a sucker knows no bounds. I am not saying there aren't victims aged 17 or age 50, just this case doesn't sound like one. The law is one thing, reality is another. You devalue the word victim by calling a 17 year old actively hooking a victim. Caveats, unless there are circumstances such as being controlled by a pimp, sexual slavery, etc.

Definition of victim --

vic·tim

   /ˈvɪktɪm/ Show Spelled[vik-tim] Show IPA

–noun

1.

a person who suffers from a destructive or injurious action or agency: a victim of an automobile accident.

2.

a person who is deceived or cheated, as by his or her own emotions or ignorance, by the dishonesty of others, or by some impersonal agency: a victim of misplaced confidence; the victim of a swindler; a victim of an optical illusion.

3.

a person or animal sacrificed or regarded as sacrificed: war victims.

4.

a living creature sacrificed in religious rites.

She is a victim because at 17, instead of engaging in activity I would consider suitable for that age, she is plying sex to support her yaba-consuming mother. I don't need a dictionary to recognize victimhood.

[Jingthing]

I must apologize. I got threads mixed up. I thought we were talking about an aggressive 17 year old beach road prostitute. Mea culpa, this thread is another story.

To finish the thought about generic 17 year old beach road prostitutes, based on the definition of victim, some would be victims, some would not be victims, depending on the particular situation that brought them to the street. All would be enticing men into illegal activities, some of the men aware of that, some not. 17 is well above the age of reason so in my view free will is the main factor here. Not arguing that the law creates a construct saying someone 18 doesn't really enjoy free will, and that makes sense under the law, but the actual human situation is different, 17 year olds typically can and do exercise their free will.

You can of course liberally expand the use of the word victim. What of the 30 year old man working 80 hours a week in a chicken factory for peanuts, is he a victim, of poverty? Perhaps. But where do you draw the line? If he isn't actually a slave and goes to that job on his own free will, I don't think that quite meets the definition.

Edited August 14, 2010 by Jingthing

[Thakkar]

I must apologize. I got threads mixed up. I thought we were talking about an aggressive 17 year old beach road prostitute. Mea culpa, this thread is another story.

To finish the thought about generic 17 year old beach road prostitutes, based on the definition of victim, some would be victims, some would not be victims, depending on the particular situation that brought them to the street. All would be enticing men into illegal activities, some of the men aware of that, some not. 17 is well above the age of reason so in my view free will is the main factor here. Not arguing that the law creates a construct saying someone 18 doesn't really enjoy free will, and that makes sense under the law, but the actual human situation is different, 17 year olds typically can and do exercise their free will.

You can of course liberally expand the use of the word victim. What of the 30 year old man working 80 hours a week in a chicken factory for peanuts, is he a victim, of poverty? Perhaps. But where do you draw the line? If he isn't actually a slave and goes to that job on his own free will, I don't think that quite meets the definition.

I'd agree that some, maybe even many, 17 year olds may be 'sufficiently mature' compared to the run of the mill 17 year old. Mature enough for most things, even marriage perhaps. But I think highly unlikely to be mature enough to make an informed enough decision to embark on a career in the sex trade. It is right that the law protects them from their own possible recklessness.

The law, out of practical necessity takes a broad stroke, and the higher the age the better because it makes sense to err on the side of caution.

On the definition of victim, you are right that one can liberally expand the meaning, and in fact nowadays it is often done so to the point of inanity. I don't think I was doing that, but I take your point that my use does not fit the strict dictionary definition.

[F1fanatic]

Not buying it. A 17 year old peddling it on Beach Road is not a victim. She's a young business woman. The age of consent is 18 but the age of reason of being a sucker knows no bounds. I am not saying there aren't victims aged 17 or age 50, just this case doesn't sound like one. The law is one thing, reality is another. You devalue the word victim by calling a 17 year old actively hooking a victim. Caveats, unless there are circumstances such as being controlled by a pimp, sexual slavery, etc.

Definition of victim --

vic·tim

   /ˈvɪktɪm/ Show Spelled[vik-tim] Show IPA

–noun

1.

a person who suffers from a destructive or injurious action or agency: a victim of an automobile accident.

2.

a person who is deceived or cheated, as by his or her own emotions or ignorance, by the dishonesty of others, or by some impersonal agency: a victim of misplaced confidence; the victim of a swindler; a victim of an optical illusion.

3.

a person or animal sacrificed or regarded as sacrificed: war victims.

4.

a living creature sacrificed in religious rites.

She is a victim because at 17, instead of engaging in activity I would consider suitable for that age, she is plying sex to support her yaba-consuming mother. I don't need a dictionary to recognize victimhood.

She is not a victim because she knows exactly what she's doing and, I'd bet money on it, will be proud of what she's doing (as will her friends/neighbours), as long as she makes LOTS of money i.e. more than she would working in a normal job.

[jackspratt]

. I recently passed a tefl course so i'm looking to find work, but... I met a girl after completing my tefl in a bar......................

:cheesy:

[geriatrickid]

One of the rules of sexual conduct I picked up from TVF is that if in doubt, walk away.

There are so many potential partners available, that the benefit of a dangerous liason never ever justifies the risk.

Pack it in and move on.