Being With Someone Underage

[Thakkar]

Not buying it. A 17 year old peddling it on Beach Road is not a victim. She's a young business woman. The age of consent is 18 but the age of reason of being a sucker knows no bounds. I am not saying there aren't victims aged 17 or age 50, just this case doesn't sound like one. The law is one thing, reality is another. You devalue the word victim by calling a 17 year old actively hooking a victim. Caveats, unless there are circumstances such as being controlled by a pimp, sexual slavery, etc.

Definition of victim --

vic·tim

   /ˈvɪktɪm/ Show Spelled[vik-tim] Show IPA

–noun

1.

a person who suffers from a destructive or injurious action or agency: a victim of an automobile accident.

2.

a person who is deceived or cheated, as by his or her own emotions or ignorance, by the dishonesty of others, or by some impersonal agency: a victim of misplaced confidence; the victim of a swindler; a victim of an optical illusion.

3.

a person or animal sacrificed or regarded as sacrificed: war victims.

4.

a living creature sacrificed in religious rites.

She is a victim because at 17, instead of engaging in activity I would consider suitable for that age, she is plying sex to support her yaba-consuming mother. I don't need a dictionary to recognize victimhood.

She is not a victim because she knows exactly what she's doing and, I'd bet money on it, will be proud of what she's doing (as will her friends/neighbours), as long as she makes LOTS of money i.e. more than she would working in a normal job.

At 17, she doesn't know any better. One reason why there are laws against what she's doing. In this case the law has failed to protect her from herself and from her abusive mother and the grubby bar owner that employs her.

I know that when I say 'at 17 she doesn't know any better', I'm making an assumption. But so are you when you say 'she knows exactly what she's doing'. My assumption lacks your cynicism.

This may be a little long-winded, but bear with me:

Many of my close friends and even clients scattered around the world have teenage/young adult children. Many of these kids trust me and open their hearts to me without fear of loss of confidentiality. They also know that if it's a dispute between them and their parents, I'll unfailingly be an honest broker. My kids too have friends of mine they can similarly open up to. So I've had heart to hearts with many a teen over many years.

Now, I know that their experiences can't compare to the 17 year old we are speaking of. Still, no matter how sophisticated they may seem, I've yet to meet a 17 year old that, when it really comes down to it, isn't still a kid.

Oh, look...wasn't so long-winded after all

[Ulysses G.]

A lot of people are still "kids" are in their 60s and 70s.

Edited August 14, 2010 by Ulysses G.

[Thakkar]

A lot of people are still "kids" are in their 60s and 70s.

Indeed. And not just in the sense of childlike, but full-blown childish!

Still, at that age, they're on their own; they don't need a morally outraged keyboard-thumping blowhard to spout for them.

Thanks for the levity. I guess I may have got a little too serious for a while there. I couldn't help but look at this through a fatherly prism.

Anyway, I gotta go now. Mrs T and the girls are staying up late today to watch the Miss Thailand contest and insist I join them. They didn't need the popcorn and beer to entice me, but I appreciate the gesture.

[powderpuff]

I am not sure about UK law, but US law makes it illegal for an adult to have sex with anyone under 18 regardless of the local laws.

Are you kidding me?

Let's assume for a second - a 19 yo guy marries a 17 year old girl , with her parents consent. You're saying that sex between them is illegal under US law?

Might want to rethink that one.

[Jingthing]

I am not sure about UK law, but US law makes it illegal for an adult to have sex with anyone under 18 regardless of the local laws.

Are you kidding me?

Let's assume for a second - a 19 yo guy marries a 17 year old girl , with her parents consent. You're saying that sex between them is illegal under US law?

Might want to rethink that one.

Bonobo is correct if the sex occurs outside USA borders. If the American marries in a US state with a lower age of consent, that would be legal. It is an interesting question if such a couple from a lower age state took a trip abroad and had sex. I didn't read any exception in the text of the law (see earlier in the thread) like that. On the other hand, who would make a complaint to the police about a married couple having sex? Nobody unless it was marriage rape.

Edited August 14, 2010 by Jingthing

[bonobo]

I am not sure about UK law, but US law makes it illegal for an adult to have sex with anyone under 18 regardless of the local laws.

Are you kidding me?

Let's assume for a second - a 19 yo guy marries a 17 year old girl , with her parents consent. You're saying that sex between them is illegal under US law?

Might want to rethink that one.

Bonobo is correct if the sex occurs outside USA borders. If the American marries in a US state with a lower age of consent, that would be legal. It is an interesting question if such a couple from a lower age state took a trip abroad and had sex. I didn't read any exception in the text of the law (see earlier in the thread)  like that. On the other hand, who would make a complaint to the police about a married couple having sex? Nobody unless it was marriage rape.

Jingthing is correct.  I should have been more complete in my post.  As I wrote the post, it was not correct.  The law covers Americans going outside the boundaries of the US and having sex with people under the age of 18.

[IanForbes]

One of the rules of sexual conduct I picked up from TVF is that if in doubt, walk away.

There are so many potential partners available, that the benefit of a dangerous liason never ever justifies the risk.

Pack it in and move on.

Precisely what I said, only in different words. Take it slow and walk away if there is any doubt. It is easy for a new visitor to Thailand (or other South east Asian countries) to be fooled by the age of the young women. And, because 95% of everyone, everywhere doesn't have total command of all laws, rules and regulations everywhere it only makes sense to learn a bit about a country before taking chances. It has been a pretty good discussion so far and a valuable one in opening the eyes of people who might THINK they know it all.

After spending more than a little time in Thai villages, and getting a bare understanding of what happens there, I've learned to my horror that girls barely out of their puberty stage are having unprotected sex with Thai teenage boys. The resulting pregnancies causes untold pressure on families trying to exist on very little. It is little wonder that the young women head for the city to work in bars. They grow up very quickly and become like a 30 year old western woman. They've totally lost their childhood and that is a crime.

[hastings]

I am not sure about UK law, but US law makes it illegal for an adult to have sex with anyone under 18 regardless of the local laws.

Not true, there is no such United States law. Statutory rape laws (criminalizing sex with minors based on the age even with consent) in the United States varies greatly depending on the state. In several states the age of consent is only 14 or 15 years old (5 states 14 and 2 states 15). The age of consent in the majority of states is 16 years old. That said, California and a few other states have 17 and 18 as the age of consent. See this recent parody song on The Age of Consent in the United States. http://www.huffingto...i_n_682162.html

The United States does have a law making it illegal to travel abroad with the intention of having sex with someone under the age of 18 (if having sex with that person would be illegal within the United States). There is a question whether the consent laws of the travelors home state will govern. In any event, sex with someone 13 or under would mean jail time as it is illegal in all states (and most foreign destinations as well).

Edited August 14, 2010 by hastings

[darhut]

I think in 12 months time you will think back on this and realize you have dodged a bullet, not so much because of the girls age but more her circumstances.

You would be constantly forking out more money for mums habits and that would put strain on the relationship giving it little or no chance of surviving. In Thailand you have to not only like your patner but her family also.

I'm just a little worried about this statement "We left the place where I done the tefl " . And you will be teaching english ????

[Xircal]

I think you've been grossly unfair on her. She's had the courage to tell you the truth about her age and your reaction has been to dump her because you're afraid of the consequences of becoming involved with an underage girl.

But before we go any further, let's get the facts straight. If you have sex with a bargirl who continues to work in that job, then the miminum age of consent is 18 years old.

If you have sex with anybody else who isn't a prostitute, then the minimum age of consent is 15 years years old.

If she comes to live with you, but you support her so that she doesn't have to work as a hooker, then you're in the clear in my opinion.

But there's something else you have to understand and that is that if you become involved with a Thai girl, you'll be expected to support her family financially too.

Thailand isn't like the West where we have welfare programs to fall back on if we lose our jobs, or become ill. She'll be expected to support her family once she's old enough to work and the sex industry provides a means earning a lot of money in a short period of time. But most of what she earns will filter back to the family.

It's sad that her mother is a junkie, but this is part and parcel of her family and you'll just have to get used to the idea if you want to form a relationship with her, or anyone else for that matter. Bargirls always come from poor families, so if you meet another one doing the same job, then the same kind of story is going to repeat itself infinitely.

Finding a girl that really loves you for what you are, not what you can give her is very difficult goal in life and if you've found such a person and you love her too, then go for it. Yes, she comes with a certain amount of baggage, but so does everyone. But if you can attain just 50% of what you really want in someone, then you're a very lucky man in my opinion.

As regards US law, the US PROTECT Act 2003 is aimed at pedos and concentrates on US citizens who go abroad to exploit children. I don't think you have anything to fear from that because you're working in Thailand and have a stable relationship with a girl who lives with you, not some pervert hopping between countries to get your rocks off with a 12 year old.

[Jingthing]

As regards US law, the US PROTECT Act 2003 is aimed at pedos and concentrates on US citizens who go abroad to exploit children. I don't think you have anything to fear from that because you're working in Thailand and have a stable relationship with a girl who lives with you, not some pervert hopping between countries to get your rocks off with a 12 year old.

This is totally wrong! The US law is about underage sex by Americans abroad. ANYONE under 18, period. Read the law. There is no distinction made between 17 and 10 and there is no favor made for illicit UNDERAGE relationships. BTW, for US nationals abroad the consent laws in your home US state are totally irrelevant.

[F1fanatic]

30 and 17?

Did I understand it correct?

What does a 30 and a 17 year old talk about?

I normally have no problem with age differences.

Even 80/25 is much much better than 30/17.

I think either the OP must be extremely naive/immature, or he is trolling.

I bet it is the latter.

Even more, what does any basically educated Westerner talk about with a foreign bargirl?

Rubbish. That's the general topic of conversation. The guy lowers his IQ to meet hers, whilst she at first might be bothered to fake higher IQ to meet in the middle. Alright for a beer and a dirty joke or two ok.....but after a month or two of that?! OP is going to be an English teacher. OP will have opportunites abound for girls on a similar IQ level but a few years younger than him. But they might not be so dirty. Will he take them?

Good morning, Kuhn Mark what would you like for breakfast? Bananas in strawberry yogurt and French toast.

She cooks

Would you write this for me in Thai? OK. (I speak but don't write Thai). She types out what I say on the computer.

She does morning cleaning and makes bed while she sings songs.

Where do you want to eat lunch? We go to MK and then shopping.

She says, Dr. House is on TV do you want to watch? OK.

I am reading Thai Visa. What you read? I explain a couple of news stories to her.

She showers and comes dancing out of the shower. Smell me she says.

Two hours later. She says, you want grilled cheese sandwich? OK. She cooks and we watch a movie on TV with Thai subtitles.

She helps me with my Thai alphabet writing practice. I can write only a few words but I practice every day. Today I learned how to write I love you in Issan dialect.

She says, Khun Mark I am sleepy. We go to bed. She asks if I am asleep. I say yes dear that is why I go to bed. She laughs and we end up going to sleep in an hour or so. She says, non lop fun dee (good night sweet dreams).

Yup, she 'luvs you too much'.

She's not a hooker that's learned how to hook a farang at all....

Its great though that you've found a woman that pretends to be subservient.

[F1fanatic]

30 and 17?

Did I understand it correct?

What does a 30 and a 17 year old talk about?

I normally have no problem with age differences.

Even 80/25 is much much better than 30/17.

I think either the OP must be extremely naive/immature, or he is trolling.

I bet it is the latter.

Even more, what does any basically educated Westerner talk about with a foreign bargirl?

Rubbish. That's the general topic of conversation. The guy lowers his IQ to meet hers, whilst she at first might be bothered to fake higher IQ to meet in the middle. Alright for a beer and a dirty joke or two ok.....but after a month or two of that?! OP is going to be an English teacher. OP will have opportunites abound for girls on a similar IQ level but a few years younger than him. But they might not be so dirty. Will he take them?

Good morning, Kuhn Mark what would you like for breakfast? Bananas in strawberry yogurt and French toast.

She cooks

Would you write this for me in Thai? OK. (I speak but don't write Thai). She types out what I say on the computer.

She does morning cleaning and makes bed while she sings songs.

Where do you want to eat lunch? We go to MK and then shopping.

She says, Dr. House is on TV do you want to watch? OK.

I am reading Thai Visa. What you read? I explain a couple of news stories to her.

She showers and comes dancing out of the shower. Smell me she says.

Two hours later. She says, you want grilled cheese sandwich? OK. She cooks and we watch a movie on TV with Thai subtitles.

She helps me with my Thai alphabet writing practice. I can write only a few words but I practice every day. Today I learned how to write I love you in Issan dialect.

She says, Khun Mark I am sleepy. We go to bed. She asks if I am asleep. I say yes dear that is why I go to bed. She laughs and we end up going to sleep in an hour or so. She says, non lop fun dee (good night sweet dreams).

Yup, she 'luvs you too much'.

She's not a hooker that's learned how to hook a farang at all....

Its great though that you've found a woman that pretends to be subservient.

Sorry, I was a bit slow there - only just realised your post was a 'piss-take"....

[Xircal]

As regards US law, the US PROTECT Act 2003 is aimed at pedos and concentrates on US citizens who go abroad to exploit children. I don't think you have anything to fear from that because you're working in Thailand and have a stable relationship with a girl who lives with you, not some pervert hopping between countries to get your rocks off with a 12 year old.

This is totally wrong! The US law is about underage sex by Americans abroad. ANYONE under 18, period. Read the law. There is no distinction made between 17 and 10 and there is no favor made for illicit UNDERAGE relationships. BTW, for US nationals abroad the consent laws in your home US state are totally irrelevant.

To quote from the act itself:

The PROTECT Act of 2003 (Pub.L. 108-21, 117 Stat. 650, S. 151, enacted April 30, 2003) is a United States law with the stated intent of preventing child abuse. "PROTECT" stands for "Prosecutorial Remedies and Other Tools to end the Exploitation of Children Today".

The PROTECT Act incorporates the Truth in Domain Names Act (TDNA) of 2003 (originally two separate Bills, submitted by Senator Orrin Hatch and Congressman Mike Pence), codified at 18 U.S.C. § 2252

In any event, if it came to it, a good defence lawyer would have no problem getting something like this thrown out of court. As I said before, the act is aimed at perverts who go abroad to abuse children and I'm all in favour of putting them behind bars. But this isn't the case here.

[bonobo]

As regards US law, the US PROTECT Act 2003 is aimed at pedos and concentrates on US citizens who go abroad to exploit children. I don't think you have anything to fear from that because you're working in Thailand and have a stable relationship with a girl who lives with you, not some pervert hopping between countries to get your rocks off with a 12 year old.

This is totally wrong! The US law is about underage sex by Americans abroad. ANYONE under 18, period. Read the law. There is no distinction made between 17 and 10 and there is no favor made for illicit UNDERAGE relationships. BTW, for US nationals abroad the consent laws in your home US state are totally irrelevant.

To quote from the act itself:

The PROTECT Act of 2003 (Pub.L. 108-21, 117 Stat. 650, S. 151, enacted April 30, 2003) is a United States law with the stated intent of preventing child abuse. "PROTECT" stands for "Prosecutorial Remedies and Other Tools to end the Exploitation of Children Today".

The PROTECT Act incorporates the Truth in Domain Names Act (TDNA) of 2003 (originally two separate Bills, submitted by Senator Orrin Hatch and Congressman Mike Pence), codified at 18 U.S.C. § 2252

In any event, if it came to it, a good defence lawyer would have no problem getting something like this thrown out of court. As I said before, the act is aimed at perverts who go abroad to abuse children and I'm all in favour of putting them behind bars. But this isn't the case here.

Since the OP is a UK citizen, the US has no jurisdiction over him anyway.

[WinnieTheKhwai]

For US citizens, you better go by the letter of the law. There was a recent article in The Economist (could have been Newsweek) investigating why so many US citizens are in jail. A big reason is that people actually do go to jail for breaking the letter of the law, not the larger objective. An example was given about a law that forbids Americans from breaking local wildlife laws, aimed at preventing Americans from going to Africa and shooting elephants. A good law you'd say. Yet the law applies to ANY local wildlife law ANYWHERE, so some people got thrown in jail for breaking a pretty minor fisheries regulation in a middle American country. (Something silly relating to the parts of shrimp that can or cannot be exported or packaged or processed bla bla whatever. ).

While prosecutors and politicians can score points by coming down hard on child abuse, YOU BET they will go after someone who 'goes to Thailand and has sex with a 17 year old'. If the 10 second headline sounds smutty, that's more than enough.

( This topic applies to the UK though, where the legal system is still somewhat on the rails. )

[Jingthing]

While prosecutors and politicians can score points by coming down hard on child abuse, YOU BET they will go after someone who 'goes to Thailand and has sex with a 17 year old'. If the 10 second headline sounds smutty, that's more than enough.

Exactly correct. Even more so if you're gay. Try getting searched by US border officers with pictures of a legal aged but young boyfriend without documentation of their age and then see how serious they are about these laws. No, hasn't happened to me but I have read reports.

Edited August 15, 2010 by Jingthing

[RAZZELL]

No sign of the OP a year+ later...maybe he's been busy paying off his credit cards

RAZZ

[norrona]

30 and 17?

Did I understand it correct?

What does a 30 and a 17 year old talk about?

I normally have no problem with age differences.

Even 80/25 is much much better than 30/17.

I think either the OP must be extremely naive/immature, or he is trolling.

I bet it is the latter.

Even more, what does any basically educated Westerner talk about with a foreign bargirl?

Rubbish. That's the general topic of conversation. The guy lowers his IQ to meet hers, whilst she at first might be bothered to fake higher IQ to meet in the middle. Alright for a beer and a dirty joke or two ok.....but after a month or two of that?! OP is going to be an English teacher. OP will have opportunites abound for girls on a similar IQ level but a few years younger than him. But they might not be so dirty. Will he take them?

Good morning, Kuhn Mark what would you like for breakfast? Bananas in strawberry yogurt and French toast.

She cooks

Would you write this for me in Thai? OK. (I speak but don't write Thai). She types out what I say on the computer.

She does morning cleaning and makes bed while she sings songs.

Where do you want to eat lunch? We go to MK and then shopping.

She says, Dr. House is on TV do you want to watch? OK.

I am reading Thai Visa. What you read? I explain a couple of news stories to her.

She showers and comes dancing out of the shower. Smell me she says.

Two hours later. She says, you want grilled cheese sandwich? OK. She cooks and we watch a movie on TV with Thai subtitles.

She helps me with my Thai alphabet writing practice. I can write only a few words but I practice every day. Today I learned how to write I love you in Issan dialect.

She says, Khun Mark I am sleepy. We go to bed. She asks if I am asleep. I say yes dear that is why I go to bed. She laughs and we end up going to sleep in an hour or so. She says, non lop fun dee (good night sweet dreams).

that's what it's all about

[AhmedTrader]

I have the same question . i know 16yrs old girl from facebook and she want to spend time with me in phuket when i go in thailand . she is not bar girl for sure . her mum might be ok i guess.. shall i ask her mum for written approval ?? thats abit awkward :S

[geriatrickid]

I have the same question . i know 16yrs old girl from facebook and she want to spend time with me in phuket when i go in thailand . she is not bar girl for sure . her mum might be ok i guess.. shall i ask her mum for written approval ?? thats abit awkward :S

Umm, sure. Why are you on facebook with little girls?

Is this about where the guy comes in singing trolololol

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gkfVdrtLcRs&feature=related

[mahtin]

10 hours of trolling - another level.

[WarpSpeed]

Wait! Let me get this right, the OP says he completed his TEFL course??

Edited January 9, 2012 by WarpSpeed

[pattayadingo]

Not read all the posts.

All I can say is that if the OP is wanting to be a teacher here and he is currently with a girl under age, I hope he does not get caught especially if the situation gets him a criminal record.

Do schools here check criminal records for teachers? Would he be listed in his own country - even if 17 is legal back home as a criminal?

This one needs to be walked away from if the above is correct. Go start a new life somewhere else and become a teacher.

[chops]

I'd stay clear of anything under 18. Just too risky even if it is legal.

[Patron]

Not read all the posts.

All I can say is that if the OP is wanting to be a teacher here and he is currently with a girl under age, I hope he does not get caught especially if the situation gets him a criminal record.

Do schools here check criminal records for teachers? Would he be listed in his own country - even if 17 is legal back home as a criminal?

This one needs to be walked away from if the above is correct. Go start a new life somewhere else and become a teacher.

The OP is from 2010, so the girl is currently 18 or 19.

[whybother]

Anyone who mixes teaching high school and having 16 yo girl friends needs to have a really hard think about what they are doing.

[Tywais]

Highly inflammatory posts removed.

[Tywais]

Anyone who mixes teaching high school and having 16 yo girl friends needs to have a really hard think about what they are doing.

From the OP: "She told me she has just recently turned 17, before I met her."

Seems some are not reading the OP. He was told she was 19 when they met and "I've ended it as shes underage" after he found out.

[rocketmanbkk]

_{ha, had my posts removed, truth hurts!}

_{Still, close this thread, it'simmoral.}