Happy Birthday Singapore - You Suck!

[fredob43]

Havent looked at all the reply's, sorry if it's been said before but the BKK post (Horizons) this week had a two page spread on going to singapore if you would like to educate the editor on how they treat Thai's Im sure he/she would like to know, it's Kun Pongpet Mekloy email [email protected] please send email telling BKK post that they treat Thai's like pig shit.

[Atmos]

^ a bit extreme. Language like that will get you nowhere.

We (me + Thai partner) were there for a holiday in April and did not encounter any issues with immigration; the OP's treatment is not acceptable; guess just because we went through ok once doesn't mean something similar could happen. I'd similarly be enraged re loss of prepaid fares/accomm, but admit I'd be less likely to let them see it than it appears OP was - I have a fear of immigration/police and the risk of being locked up.

Remember the guy in Phuket March or April 2009 - swore at an immigration official and grabbed his passport back. About a month in lock-up before they even dealt with his offence.

[lonewolf99]

Singapore's ok for a short trip, but I find it a bit sterile. Bangkok is much more interesting, but takes more energy and adventurousness.

I've been thinking of taking 2 Thai girls I know to Singapore, but don't want them treated like that.

Correct "Sterile Singapore" even whats left of the jungle is trimmed into lollipop trees.

HOWEVER ....This is not NEW news - I was working in Singapore exactly 5 years ago to the month and Thai / Viet / Phillo / Malay / Indonesian women were being stopped then by Customs.

Ex-pats working with me with Thai wifes and GF's had them flying back and fore all the time and had to be at the airport to make sure they got in.

Customs sometimes gave them 7 days sometimes if they were lucky got 14 days then it was back out again to try again.

I feel sorry for the OP but it is a sad fact, all Asian women are tarred with the same brush.

Profiling is an issue these days.

I have been wracking my brains where to go with my GF outside of Thailand and the best bet is Taiwan.....a lovely place and UK passport holders get A 3 month Visa on entry with a great big smile from their Customs people...well I did last year when I went on my own......check it out....beats over rated sterile Singers any day ...IMHO

[kiwisr]

I was on a job in Singapore and thought that my wife could join me when the job was almost done. I already stood four weeks in my hotel and told the receptionist, that my wife will join me for the next three or four days till I check out.. So I had a reservation for her and agreed to pay more because the room will be used by one person more. As my wife arrived late night the receptionist denied her access to my room because that's against hotel's philosophy!!! It took me quite a long discussion, argue, to take my wife to my room, without breakfast vouchers and douple price for the room. Next day I checked out and left a letter for the management: ...."Not all Germans are Nazis and not all Thai women are prostitutes..."

SINGAPORE SUCKS

I've stayed at many SIngapore hotels, The Fullerton, both Swissotels, Pan Pacific, Mandarin Oriental, Hilton etc and have brought plenty of 'guests' back to my room without a problem whatsoever, in fact it's much easier than Thailand and feels less judgemental.

To the OP, it is arrogant to expect that because you are a farang it should impart some sort of preferential treatment for your travelling partner. Plenty of working girls in Singapore and many of them ask customers to meet them in Thailand/Indonesia/Phillipines and to fly back with them precisely to try and avoid the situation where the girl is deported. Additionally Singapore doesn't ban for life, it's normally a 12 month ban. That is what all the girls I know got who were caught working and deported.

[oakweb]

To the OP, it is arrogant to expect that because you are a farang it should impart some sort of preferential treatment for your travelling partner. Plenty of working girls in Singapore and many of them ask customers to meet them in Thailand/Indonesia/Phillipines and to fly back with them precisely to try and avoid the situation where the girl is deported. Additionally Singapore doesn't ban for life, it's normally a 12 month ban. That is what all the girls I know got who were caught working and deported.

She's not my traveling partner, she's my Fiancé. In my phone I have pictures from London, Paris, New York, Beijing, Tokyo, Paris, Hong Kong, Singapore, Taipei and many other places over a span of 7 years we have visited. I don't think its arrogant thinking, when I say I would be the guarantor. If you have traveled as much as I have with Thai significant others you would understand that many custom officers look to the person they travel with to make sure they have the financial means to be there. Much like they would look at a 18 year old to have someone financialy stable as well (there was a young European male backpacker that was refused entry as well for this reason). I'm American, I have a wallet full of credit cards and I'm able to support whatever disaster we run into. Including purchasing two one way tickets to get us the hel_l out of Singapore.

I'm not the bad guy here, I'm a business traveler with a Thai girl as a fiancé. My Fiancé has traveled there twice before without a problem.

Regarding the ban for life, I only repeated what the inspector said to me in spite. I already confirmed that the document they passed on to us did not confirm that statement.

Edited August 15, 2010 by oakweb

[geriatrickid]

A country has the right to decide who it allows to enter as a visitor. Entry into a foreign country is a privilige granted by that country. There is no right of entry. The female in this case did not meet the requirements. I do not think we would be reading this story if the subject was a physician or a nurse or an accountant or a government employee. One of the requirements of entry into a foreign country is a requirement to have suitable financial means to support oneself. That's the downside of traveling on a deep discount budget carrier. It's a redflag. I'm not badmouthing anyone for flying AirAsia as I have taken the flight from HKT to SIN because it was significantly less than the SilkAir price. However, 1/2 the passengers on the flight looked like they had collected cans and bottles to come up with the airfare.

Yes, you had lots of credit cards. However, those were your credit cards and your money. It's wonderful that you have a fiancé, but why would that make a difference. She's been your fiancé for 7 years? That's quite a long courtship. Perhaps if she was your wife and not a long term girlfriend, they might have been convinced to let her pass and convince them she had the financial means to visit. In any case, Singapore doesn't just ban Thais on a whim. They do so because either the person has been to Singapore before and had a problem, the paperwork isn't right, the answers given at entry are inconsistent or otherwise suspicious or the person really is an undesirable.

The decision that the Singapore agent made is similiar to decisions made on a daily basis at U.S. border entry points. A day doesn't go by when Canadians are banned at the border with the U.S. agency not obliged to provide a reason. So what? That's the way it is. Big deal, so she had a U.S. visa. What does that have to do with it? Do you think a U.S. immigration officer cares if a Thai shows up with a Schengen visa? The U.S. sets the rules for its visas and other countries set the rules for their own visas.

Sorry, but there is more to this story than you are providing. You basically had a temper tantrum at immigration and you wonder why people are not bending over backwards to help you? Yes, they kept your fiancé in custody. That's what happens everywhere. If they are going to forbid entry, they are not going to then just let a person wander about the airport are they? Yes, she was searched. What's your point? All detainees are searched. Are you aware that anyone entering the USA, Canada, Australia etc. can be strip searched? It happens on a daily basis. Your being unaware of it, doesn't mean it doesn't happen.

I am sorry you were unable to enter Singapore. I suggest you visit Arizona.

Get a grip on reality. Your ladyfriend gets banned and you want everyone to stop traveling to Singapore. Right. I have been rudely treated by US customs in LAX when I transit. Now I just avoid going to the USA. I don't make a stink about it. Nor do I hate 308,000,000 people because of the rude nasty customs staff of LAX. In any case, I don't think the Singapore economy has suffered because you didn't visit. Nor is Singapore about to lose sleep because some other travelers do not come. There are thousands of visitors that come from all over that spend in an hour what you would spend in a week. That's the economic reality. Singapore works. We may dislike the choking of freedom and absence of basic human rights, but apparently thousands upon thousands of very wealthy visitors seem to like it.

[oakweb]

@geriatrickid

- she was not banned - read the messages

- AirAsia - interesting point and probably they are profiling more on cheap flights

- USA visa - I'm repeating myself again here but anyways it's one of the toughest VISAs for a Thai to obtain. And usually once they are able to get a USA Visa, other Visas are easier to get. This is a known fact.

- I'm not sure why everyone is talking about America, is it because I'm American? I never said that USA Visa entry points are perfect.

My post is to notify those of us that have Thai significant others that there is no guarantee they will be granted entry into Singapore and for the rudeness they could potentially encounter, these situations do happen, and is already backed up by many others who have reported the same result.

If you don't have a Thai significant other, then this post has no significance to you. Travel, make reservations, have no worries. Enjoy, la!

The post is pertinent to persons who travel to Singapore with Thai significant others. And if I changed the mind on how only one of my fellow board members travel

to Singapore (maybe they will be cautious, wear conservative clothes, keep cool and know what to expect, etc) then that's good enough for me.

It sucks to loose your hotel and airfare due to a Singaporean policy or immigration officer believing your significant other is a sex worker.

[eeconomist]

Oakweb,

Singapore does not ban a person for no reason. They did not give you any reason does not imply that there is no reason. There are thousand of Thai ladies entering Singapore very da..m.n day and they don't get banned or refused entry. My colleauges from Thailand fly in and out of Singapore and no problem at all!

Maybe your case is a case of mistaken identity or maybe there are more than what eyes meet. Have you tried probing your fiance about her past? Does the Singapore authorities knows things that you do not know?

Btw, having a Visa does not guarantee entry to any person. Don't blame Singapore alone, all countries including the US has the right to refuse entry even though the person was issued with an entry visa!

Also, seriously why in the world you shouted vulgarities in the airport officials?? They were kind enough not to arrest you for insulting a public servant!

Try doing it in US and Europe and see what will happen to you!!

[oakweb]

@eeconomist

- never shouted vulgarities, that was another member

- again, she was not banned.. read the messages

- there is no past to probe, as stated we were there before with no problems

- are your colleagues sexy?.. no I didn't think so

[eeconomist]

@eeconomist

- never shouted vulgarities, that was another member

- again, she was not banned.. read the messageh

- there is no past to probe, as stated we were there before with no problems

- are your colleagues sexy?.. no I didn't think so

So you thought is she was refused entry because she was in your opinion sexy?

And you think all other Thai ladies are in Singapore now are not sexy then or they all dress like Mother Theresa at the Singapore immigration?

Nothing to probe, sure!! Nothing!

Don't go to Singapore. They don't need your tourism dollar and you don't need them too!!

You think that Singapore sucks, sure. Maybe that feeling is mutual!!

Edited August 15, 2010 by eeconomist

[exterminator]

To quote you: " It's amazing to me that customs does not care that a Farang traveler to Singapore is not sufficient enough to guarantee a Thai girl into the country." Dream on - you can't be more wrong and you are assuming a superiority complex here because you are a farang. You can't be a guarantor unless you are a citizen of the country she's entering, or a PR at least. Also, they don't give a dam_n whether she is your fiancee or girlfriend, it doesn't earn you any points and doesn't entitle you to jump to her assistance/defense when questioned by the CIQ. If she's your wife, having the marriage certificate at hand would certainly be enough visa for entry!

[oakweb]

@eeconomist I already stated that Singapore does not suck, their immigration desk does

Anyways, yes they are profiling. If you are 45 years old and Thai, you will draw no suspicion from them.

[oakweb]

@exterminator ok good point, I would suggest anyone traveling to Singapore with a Thai wife to bring all the documentation to prove it. I would not want to try to enter the country unless I had everything that a normal Consul in a embassy might ask for when applying for a Visa. Letters, Photos, Marriage Certificate, Bank Statements. I suggest everything since it's your vacation on the line.

[kevozman1]

Thailand does not have a good name internationally.

Thailand from right at the top have closed their eyes to

how they conduct themselves meaning citizens of Thailand

will not find travelling to decent countries easy. Simple as that.

Want to travel with ease to other countries then think of picking

a woman from a country that considers its international status

a little more than Thailand does.

[jackr]

I'm not the bad guy here, I'm a business traveler with a Thai girl as a fiancé. My Fiancé has traveled there twice before without a problem.

In the op you say she was not provocatively dressed but sexy. Perhaps best to have her dress conservatively when crossing borders in future as, especially with Singapore, this in itself would be a red flag to immigration.

[ding]

Your experience sounds bad and I understand how you got angry. A westerner feels "justified" in his anger if he's done nothing wrong (or his Thai wife). Of course, we all know anger does no good in Asia.

That said, the officials were unprofessional. Holding her arm when there was no effort to resist. Long detention after willingness to vacate the country. This implies the country promulgates draconian immigration handling - even for tourists. I'd recommend spending the money elsewhere too, can't blame you oakweb.

People don't get it- merely because it hasn't happened to you doesn't mean it can't happen to you. And the lack of empathy for this Thai woman's unwarranted ordeal is almost sociopathic. "It has never happened to me either... YET" and I thank posts like this for alerting us that it does go on.

[H2oDunc]

You want to talk of immigration Nazi's

A British national been in the USA for 20 years. Was married to an American, now divorced with a 17 year old son. Again a US national. Having taken back her green card for daring to spend too long out of the country she now has to apply for a visa. After Watling for 7 months to get one here in Thailand her son has an accident. She flies to the US and guess what. They keep her in detention for 48 hours then put her on a plane to Hong Kong at her expense losing the return ticket she had booked for 3 days later. And you have the audacity to complain about the immigration of another country. The UK is supposed to be an ally of yours yet you regularly treat our citizens as terrorists or illegal immigrants. By reading your account I would put down your troubles to your attitude.

[craigt3365]

I first went to Singapore about 6 years ago. I was 47, my wife 22...cute, and dressed fairly sexy...but not too much. She traveled separately as I was already in Malaysia scuba diving. She had a one way ticket, so they made her take out 10,000 baht before getting on the plane. Luckily, she had my ATM card. But other than that, it was no problem. I have found that if you have a bad attitude, you can get into trouble quickly. Dealing with things quietly and politely works wonders...but hard for us farang to do so!

H2oDunc: Sorry to hear about your troubles. But, it is clearly stated that if you are outside the US for an extended time, you will lose your green card. When my wife had one, we were acutely aware of that. Sorry to say this, but it is the law and it is clearly stated. And how do the immigration officers really know she had a son in an accident? People tell stories all the time. We've never had a problem with immigration in the US....or anywhere really....and have traveled extensively in the past 5 years. About 35 countries so far....immigration officers have a tough job...dealing with jerks that yell and scream. No wonder they take a hard line at times. It's a job I would never want.

Edited August 16, 2010 by craigt3365

[soihok]

Correct "Sterile Singapore" even whats left of the jungle is trimmed into lollipop trees.

I have been wracking my brains where to go with my GF outside of Thailand and the best bet is Taiwan.....a lovely place and UK passport holders get A 3 month Visa on entry with a great big smile from their Customs people...well I did last year when I went on my own......check it out....beats over rated sterile Singers any day ...IMHO

Well you have ,obviously , been looking for jungle in the wrong place. Orchard Road was it?

I have also lived and worked in Taiwan and its a world away from Singapore ,apart from Taipei which is perhaps slightly similar.

So cannot really draw a true comparison.

I worked on a hydro electric project near a place called Puli and Sun Moon Lake, really beautiful place.

[steelepulse]

OP could always have his significant other change her last name to his, or marry her and then have her change her name. I bet if they had the same last name there wouldn't of been a hassle.

[PattayaParent]

If your wife is just a little bit pregnant when you get there there is no way Singapore will let you in. Caused me no end of problems 35 years ago when my ex wife and I were booked on a ship out of there. Probably why she is my ex wife. But then they at least were polite,.

My missus was very visibly pregnant when we went there.

No problems entering.

And for the OP information Singapore repealed the no oral sex law some years ago.

[PattayaParent]

I sympathise Oakweb, me and the girlfriend have had similar problems last year with her being dragged off for interrogation and finger-printing for the heinous crime of wanting to visit a country for a holiday. After half an hour or so they relented and let her in, but she was pretty shaken by the experience and we've not been back since.

Thanks for that Rumblecat. I know there are others, they really don't seem to have a reason why. How about the one girl who was allowed 3 times earlier that year, and then on the 4th time denied.

"You come to visit too often". What is that about? I really think the officers there are lacking training, they should be able to provide a better reason for that traveler than you are coming too often!

Sounds like Thailand and their restrictions on visa free entries or even on issuing visas in nearby consulates.

[canopus1969]

"I'm an American", "She is sexy"

Could you tell us your respective ages, maybe that will shed more light on the circumstances

Be interested to hear what 'age' has to do with this poor girls treatment.

[harrry]

If your wife is just a little bit pregnant when you get there there is no way Singapore will let you in. Caused me no end of problems 35 years ago when my ex wife and I were booked on a ship out of there. Probably why she is my ex wife. But then they at least were polite,.

My missus was very visibly pregnant when we went there.

No problems entering.

And for the OP information Singapore repealed the no oral sex law some years ago.

As noted this was 35 years ago. I understand that Singapore rules on citizeship have changed since and children born in singapore without a singapore parent do not now gain citizenship. I understand that the fear was pregnant women would hide in Singapore to gain the benifits? of Singapore citizenship. My objection was the time is that they needed to publish their requirements for visitors clearly and I feel they should also do this now in cases such as th OP. Have you everf seen a warning in a Singapore Tourism advertisment or one of Singapore Airlines/Silkair?

Edited August 16, 2010 by harrry

[PattayaParent]

To quote you: " It's amazing to me that customs does not care that a Farang traveler to Singapore is not sufficient enough to guarantee a Thai girl into the country." Dream on - you can't be more wrong and you are assuming a superiority complex here because you are a farang. You can't be a guarantor unless you are a citizen of the country she's entering, or a PR at least. Also, they don't give a dam_n whether she is your fiancee or girlfriend, it doesn't earn you any points and doesn't entitle you to jump to her assistance/defense when questioned by the CIQ. If she's your wife, having the marriage certificate at hand would certainly be enough visa for entry!

More than likely they assume that any accompanying male is the pimp, or at best a customer.

[craigt3365]

To quote you: " It's amazing to me that customs does not care that a Farang traveler to Singapore is not sufficient enough to guarantee a Thai girl into the country." Dream on - you can't be more wrong and you are assuming a superiority complex here because you are a farang. You can't be a guarantor unless you are a citizen of the country she's entering, or a PR at least. Also, they don't give a dam_n whether she is your fiancee or girlfriend, it doesn't earn you any points and doesn't entitle you to jump to her assistance/defense when questioned by the CIQ. If she's your wife, having the marriage certificate at hand would certainly be enough visa for entry!

More than likely they assume that any accompanying male is the pimp, or at best a customer.

I can only imagine that a majority of the Thai girls heading there are customers....

[Will27]

Hi oakweb,

Firstly, sorry to hear about you and your fiance's awful experience.

If indeed it happened exactly as you've stated, it is poor form by Immigration.

However, I think that your behaviour exacerbated the situation.

You admitted that you have a "gut clenching anger" whenever she is interviewed.

My guess is that you were confrontational to say the least. This does not help.

"I don't trust this group of goons, and the fact I showed some rage I'm sure

has them thinking payback". Again, showing rage ain't going to help.

Also, by saying "No, she's traveling with me and I'm not going back in line. I'm going

wherever she's going", you're not doing anyone any favours. Maybe a "I don't wish to

proceed without my fiance, can I wait somewhere for her might've been better.

You then said "I was a concerned that they wanted my fiancé into a room without

me." This happens everywhere, the interview is between Immigration and your fiance.

It has nothing to do with you to be honest.

"The fact they profile Thai girls like they do, also makes me angry. It's amazing to me that

customs does not care that a Farang traveler to Singapore is not sufficient enough to guarantee

a Thai girl into the country. Anyways, yes they are profiling."

Of course they profile, usually with good reason.

"If you are 45 years old and Thai, you will draw no suspicion from them."

What do you base this on?

"They reject probably 30-70, maybe more, people a day

since they don't ask for VISAs."

How did you come to these figures?

"I'm not sure why everyone is talking about America, is it because I'm American?

I never said that USA Visa entry points are perfect."

It's because you keep mentioning it (see below).

"I'm American, I have a wallet full of credit cards and I'm able to support whatever disaster

we run into. Including purchasing two one way tickets to get us the hel_l out of Singapore."

I'd suggest she didn't get refused for lack of finances.

"My fiancé was refused entry into Singapore since she was too sexy".

That's just a silly thing to say.

"we received a letter saying she did not meet the standards to allow entry or something like that"

Give us a bit more info that that. That is the crux of the whole matter. What were the grounds of refusal?

What other, if any paperwork was given?

"And now I'm content to make this post and send the faxes every year on my birthday"

Pointless, not helping anybody.

At the end of the day, if you back officials into a corner, you're not going to receive the benefit

of any doubt. If for example, it was a line ball decision to let her in, your behaviour wouldn't

have helped.

Just forget it and move on.

Put it down to experience and vote with your feet.

I hope you both went somewhere else for a holiday

and had a good time.

Regards

Will

[stevenl]

I'm not sure why everyone is talking about America, is it because I'm American? I never said that USA Visa entry points are perfect.

Maybe because of your attitude: I'm an American, so I can do whatever I want. ??

[lonewolf99]

To quote you: " It's amazing to me that customs does not care that a Farang traveler to Singapore is not sufficient enough to guarantee a Thai girl into the country." Dream on - you can't be more wrong and you are assuming a superiority complex here because you are a farang. You can't be a guarantor unless you are a citizen of the country she's entering, or a PR at least. Also, they don't give a dam_n whether she is your fiancee or girlfriend, it doesn't earn you any points and doesn't entitle you to jump to her assistance/defense when questioned by the CIQ. If she's your wife, having the marriage certificate at hand would certainly be enough visa for entry!

More than likely they assume that any accompanying male is the pimp, or at best a customer.

Correct....I avoided mentioning this before on this thread...(which has grown like crazy)

I knew a Thai woman who is/was a regular "visitor" to Singapore. She would strike up a conversation with any male on his own waiting in the queue to go through Singapore Customs.

Just as they got to the front of the queue she would ask to go first. Ever the gent the man would let her go first to the desk.

Any questions from the customs officer about her intentions in Singapore and she would look back at the man behind her and say she was traveling with her "boyfriend" / "Husband" and of course ( Land of smiles cheesy grin back to the guy in the queue) and he would smile back.

Thump thump another entry stamp in her passport and off she would go to make her money on Orchard Road.......

This whole story is about assumption. Customs "assumed' the OP's GF was not fit to enter for reasons known only to themselves. They were WRONG

The OP is American he assumed an American Visa stamp was held in "high regard" by other countries. WRONG

The Customs officer met by the lady I mention above "assumed" she was telling the truth. WRONG

My work colleagues in Singapore all "assumed" Singapore Customs "assumed" their wives GF's were "on the game". WRONG

My earlier posting on this thread was met with a derisory remark "assuming" I was talking "only" about trees on Orchard Road. WRONG

Light skinned Chinese Thais in Bangkok assume any Thai with dark skin is a Rice picking red shirt farmer from Isaan. WRONG

People who visit a country once for a holiday and have a bad experience with a Customs officer / taxi driver / waitress / jet ski hire / dirty hotel ....."assume" everyone/thing in that country is the same. WRONG

Millions of people watching dozens of News channels on T.V. around the globe "assume" Thailand is full of raging pervs and criminals. WRONG.

Remember....Einstein.........assume made an ASS out of U and ME...

I am out of this thread and back to reading about the assumed Pervs and Criminals in Pattaya !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:ph34r:

Nuff said..............:jap:

[marvinberry]

Wow, what a horrendous story. Made me very angry just reading it. Not surprised you lost your rag. The fact that they didn't give any justification to their actions is just outrageous!!!!