Nitrogen Gas In Motorcycle Tyres ?

[Kwasaki]

I bought new tyres for my truck and they put gas in them and I find there is no loss from check to check.

Seeing as bike tyre pressures are usually more critical than car/truck tyres what are the pro and cons of using gas on bike tyres ???.

Is it already used in bike tyres ??? Riding through hoops of fire I think could be dodgy.

NASCAR teams use nitrogen gas in the tyres of their racing cars because the tyre pressure varies less than it does with air.

[sevenhills]

All Aircraft tyres are filled with Nitrogen, (Inert Gas so does not burn) so I can't see an issue in truck or motorbike tyres.

But I guess the cost would be higher using Nitrogen.

[sulasno]

while I can see the advantages of using nitrogen for car's tyres, I cannot see the benefits for motorbikes;

motorbikes (normally) do not travel more than 100 Km a day

[lennya12threh]

they do so travel far distances. ask the group of "dekwans" here on thaivisa!

Edited August 15, 2010 by lennya12threh

[Zzinged]

The purpose of nitrogen in tyres is to reduce the amount that it expands when heated. This allows you to fill the tyres to the pressure you desire it to be and not having to account for an increase in pressure when the tyres heat up. Other than reduced loss over time, as has already been mentioned, do you really need to use nitrogen?

It all depends on your application.

[Garry]

The purpose of nitrogen in tyres is to reduce the amount that it expands when heated. This allows you to fill the tyres to the pressure you desire it to be and not having to account for an increase in pressure when the tyres heat up. Other than reduced loss over time, as has already been mentioned, do you really need to use nitrogen?

It all depends on your application.

Good response Zzinged...I was going to post something similar based on my aircraft and dragracing maintenance. I'l stick with bike. I had a fairly quick turbo-suzuki full chassis dragbike and to get consistancy in tyre pressure in the rear car tyre style slick I used Dry Nitrogen (non-hospital grade) as rule for pressure stability and repeatibility issues on the start line procedure. Especially when .25 of a psi could be critical in tyre slick traction and clutch slip.

What I'm getting at, is that on the street, I will just top up the air from the local gas station. I'm not concerned at all, racing is another story.

[seanocasey]

can't see the point with 79%nitrogen and 21%02 in air,would 100%nitrogen make 21% difference.

[Kwasaki]

The purpose of nitrogen in tyres is to reduce the amount that it expands when heated. This allows you to fill the tyres to the pressure you desire it to be and not having to account for an increase in pressure when the tyres heat up. Other than reduced loss over time, as has already been mentioned, do you really need to use nitrogen?

It all depends on your application.

Good response Zzinged...I was going to post something similar based on my aircraft and dragracing maintenance. I'l stick with bike. I had a fairly quick turbo-suzuki full chassis dragbike and to get consistancy in tyre pressure in the rear car tyre style slick I used Dry Nitrogen (non-hospital grade) as rule for pressure stability and repeatibility issues on the start line procedure. Especially when .25 of a psi could be critical in tyre slick traction and clutch slip.

What I'm getting at, is that on the street, I will just top up the air from the local gas station. I'm not concerned at all, racing is another story.

I hear what your saying I just thought the benifit of no loss of pressure on a powerful sportsbike was a good alternative that all. I didn't want to get into rocket science.

[mcyachty]

Hi guys,

I used to put gas in my Yamaha 1100 V-Star back in Sydney.

I was good, as the gas I have been told is thicker and less prone to leakage, and also more stable as a post advised previous. Go for it!

[VocalNeal]

can't see the point with 79%nitrogen and 21%02 in air,would 100%nitrogen make 21% difference.

I think this has been beaten to death already but the chief difference is the moisture content. There is some stuff about molecule size and minuscule leakage over time but primarily Nitrogen is a factory made gas. Like most gases separated from air basically by multiple expansion and thereby cooling. As such all the moisture is of course removed prior to cooling, so nitrogen is dry.

Race team use nitrogen also to eliminate the moisture so they do not have differences in tyre pressure at different locations as a result of different humidity also as in F1 nitrogen is easier to source in bottles than compressed air and the moisture content is always the same. F1 also uses nitrogen in their rattle guns but because they already have it and do not have to rely on compressed air from a third party.

Here it is 50 baht per tire and who knows if it really is nitrogen? Also provides endless opportunity for discussion in bars and on forums!

Edited August 16, 2010 by VocalNeal

[illy]

where do you get the nirogen gas put in your tyres? [iE: you KNOW it IS nitrogen!!]is it from any tire shop? sports or big bike tyres continually lose pressure here in thailand and have be topped up with air almost daily it seems.

[TongueThaied]

I hear what your saying I just thought the benifit of no loss of pressure on a powerful sportsbike was a good alternative that all. I didn't want to get into rocket science.

I use Ride-On Tire protection System in ER6n tires. No flats, VERY little loss of tire pressure (maybe one psi/3 weeks), self balancing and longer tire wear. You have to buy it online in the US and have somebody send it if you want to escape customs duty. I love this stuff.

[Zzinged]

Going slightly off topic, if you're worried about air leakage there is this little gadget which I've been looking at getting. At least you won't have to constantly check the pressure yourself with this thing to give you readouts

http://specialtrade24.com/product_info.php?info=p184_TIREMONI-TM410-Cruiser-Bike.html&XTCsid=ac69affd8519718eb091c935135e0188

[witold]

There's some questionable claims made in this thread. The bottom line is as follows:

Regular air expands and contracts ALOT with heat. Check your tire pressure some time, ride the bike for 1/2 hour, and check it again to see what I mean. As your ride your bike and warm up the tires, the tire pressure increases alot. And tire pressure affects performance greatly. If you are doing some trackdays or racing, using tire warmers, etc, tuning in your pressure is quite an art with a lot of weather/ambient temperature variables. At most track days (at least in the US) the first question on everyone's mind is what tire pressure they should be running that day for a given tire they have.

Here is where nitrogen comes in. Because Nitrogen is not as susceptible to heat, it means that when you warm up your tires and regardless of how hot or cold it is outside, your tire pressure does not vary as widely. This makes tire pressure tuning a lot easier and gives you a lot more room for error. Consequently, you are more often in the optimal operating temp for the tire you are using, which in turn equals better performance, which in turn equals better lap times.

This is the only practical and good reason to use nitrogen.

Stuff about leaks and fewer flats is unnoticable/theoretical salesman BS. If your tire needs to be topped up often you have a problem and you should have it remounted. Tell a real tech or racer that you put Nitrogen in your cruiser or street bike/scooter and they will think you're a fool with too much money.

[Zzinged]

witold, what questionable claims are you referring to? Summing up all the posts in this tread yields the following:

• Nitrogen does not expand and contract as much as air when the temp changes.
  
• Nitrogen is supposedly less likely to leak over time compared to air.
  
• Pure nitrogen has less moisture content than air.
  

Even if the leakage thing isn't solidly proven, that leaves the other items which are known to be true. So yes, what you said is correct and has been said before in this thread, I don't see any crazy bogus claims being made about nitrogen =\

[Garry]

The purpose of nitrogen in tyres is to reduce the amount that it expands when heated. This allows you to fill the tyres to the pressure you desire it to be and not having to account for an increase in pressure when the tyres heat up. Other than reduced loss over time, as has already been mentioned, do you really need to use nitrogen?

It all depends on your application.

Good response Zzinged...I was going to post something similar based on my aircraft and dragracing maintenance. I'l stick with bike. I had a fairly quick turbo-suzuki full chassis dragbike and to get consistancy in tyre pressure in the rear car tyre style slick I used Dry Nitrogen (non-hospital grade) as rule for pressure stability and repeatibility issues on the start line procedure. Especially when .25 of a psi could be critical in tyre slick traction and clutch slip.

What I'm getting at, is that on the street, I will just top up the air from the local gas station. I'm not concerned at all, racing is another story.

I hear what your saying I just thought the benifit of no loss of pressure on a powerful sportsbike was a good alternative that all. I didn't want to get into rocket science.

All I was getting at was not to worry yourself about nitrogen in your tyres. I've ridden big sportbikes for a fair while now and I don't hestitate to top up my tyres at any service station. hel_l, before I went to re-register my Ducati today, I used my 12v car compressor to top up the Pirelli Supercorsa Pro's.

Have a nice day :jap:

[Kwasaki]

The purpose of nitrogen in tyres is to reduce the amount that it expands when heated. This allows you to fill the tyres to the pressure you desire it to be and not having to account for an increase in pressure when the tyres heat up. Other than reduced loss over time, as has already been mentioned, do you really need to use nitrogen?

It all depends on your application.

Good response Zzinged...I was going to post something similar based on my aircraft and dragracing maintenance. I'l stick with bike. I had a fairly quick turbo-suzuki full chassis dragbike and to get consistancy in tyre pressure in the rear car tyre style slick I used Dry Nitrogen (non-hospital grade) as rule for pressure stability and repeatibility issues on the start line procedure. Especially when .25 of a psi could be critical in tyre slick traction and clutch slip.

What I'm getting at, is that on the street, I will just top up the air from the local gas station. I'm not concerned at all, racing is another story.

I hear what your saying I just thought the benifit of no loss of pressure on a powerful sportsbike was a good alternative that all. I didn't want to get into rocket science.

All I was getting at was not to worry yourself about nitrogen in your tyres. I've ridden big sportbikes for a fair while now and I don't hestitate to top up my tyres at any service station. hel_l, before I went to re-register my Ducati today, I used my 12v car compressor to top up the Pirelli Supercorsa Pro's.

Have a nice day :jap:

Pirelli Supercorsa good motorcycle tyres. Let this post die at the end of the day it's the same as usual, you takes your choice and do what you want.

[chantorn]

No benefit to top up with Nitrogen. Don't believe the stuff expend less than Air (which is about 80% Nitrogen anyway). Go read up the PVT (Pressure Volume Temperature) section in your school physic book. And the section on molar mass & molecular weight in your school Chemistry book. I give you a clue. Molecular weight of N =7, and O=8. http://en.wikipedia....ogadro_constant Avogadro constant ring a bell? The volume of a gas (at a given pressure and temperature) is proportional to the number of atoms or molecules regardless of the nature of the gas.

If you argue that nitrogen in bottle has no moisture, what about just remove the moisture in air. There are cheaper way of doing it than buying bottle nitrogen bottle to fill your tyres. Like bubbling air through water absorbing chemical (glycol if i remember correctly). Didn't you do those experiment in Chemistry lab in school? Easy & cheap.

Yet you people keep saying that Thai education is bad. I thing farang's worst.

Edited August 17, 2010 by chantorn

[illy]

Going slightly off topic, if you're worried about air leakage there is this little gadget which I've been looking at getting. At least you won't have to constantly check the pressure yourself with this thing to give you readouts

http://specialtrade24.com/product_info.php?info=p184_TIREMONI-TM410-Cruiser-Bike.html&XTCsid=ac69affd8519718eb091c935135e0188

very interesting indeed.

[Kwasaki]

No benefit to top up with Nitrogen. Don't believe the stuff expend less than Air (which is about 80% Nitrogen anyway). Go read up the PVT (Pressure Volume Temperature) section in your school physic book. And the section on molar mass & molecular weight in your school Chemistry book. I give you a clue. Molecular weight of N =7, and O=8. http://en.wikipedia....ogadro_constant Avogadro constant ring a bell? The volume of a gas (at a given pressure and temperature) is proportional to the number of atoms or molecules regardless of the nature of the gas.

If you argue that nitrogen in bottle has no moisture, what about just remove the moisture in air. There are cheaper way of doing it than buying bottle nitrogen bottle to fill your tyres. Like bubbling air through water absorbing chemical (glycol if i remember correctly). Didn't you do those experiment in Chemistry lab in school? Easy & cheap.

Yet you people keep saying that Thai education is bad. I thing farang's worst.

I think I'll go and have a beer, get some Niitrogen put in my Motorcycles tyres and then do some Egyption Athletics, ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ !!!!!

Edited August 18, 2010 by Kwasaki

[VocalNeal]

If you argue that nitrogen in bottle has no moisture, what about just remove the moisture in air. There are cheaper way of doing it than buying bottle nitrogen bottle to fill your tyres.

Yes one can remove moisture from air. Each tires shop need a desiccant air dryer. Not cheap and requires maintenance. As the industrial process already removes the moisture from the nitrogen it is cheaper to use industrial nitrogen directly.This has little to do with education, more to do with common sense.

What the AA thinks.

[Kwasaki]

If you argue that nitrogen in bottle has no moisture, what about just remove the moisture in air. There are cheaper way of doing it than buying bottle nitrogen bottle to fill your tyres... VocalNeal.......I did not say this chantorn did.

The A.A. are Ok and many people have there views. What I say is if you personally find a certain application works well for you it's up to you.

I brought it up on here about motorcycles to see if people use it....because the benifit I find is great for me using it in my truck tyres, there are many times when I am not doing normal motoring by going where saloon cars cannot..

Going back to what I said before all points taken.... Let this post die at the end of the day it's the same as usual, you takes your choice and do what you want.

Edited August 20, 2010 by Kwasaki

[wildoates]

for the purpose of air loss, I use "no flats" in my tires, lots of benifits, and have only added air to my tires 1 time in the last year. great stuff, I buy it on ebay,

[JimSiam]

Works much better if you put it in the throttle body and not the tyre

[Gonsalviz]

I use Ride-On Tire protection System in ER6n tires. No flats, VERY little loss of tire pressure (maybe one psi/3 weeks), self balancing and longer tire wear. You have to buy it online in the US and have somebody send it if you want to escape customs duty. I love this stuff.

I have a question about this product. Is there a difference in the formula for Motorcycles or cars and trucks? The reason I ask is the price. 4 bottles at 16 OZ for SUV's is 54.99. It is 14.95 for 1 8 OZ bottle for motorcycles. 119.60 for the same qty.

[Garry]

I use Ride-On Tire protection System in ER6n tires. No flats, VERY little loss of tire pressure (maybe one psi/3 weeks), self balancing and longer tire wear. You have to buy it online in the US and have somebody send it if you want to escape customs duty. I love this stuff.

I have a question about this product. Is there a difference in the formula for Motorcycles or cars and trucks? The reason I ask is the price. 4 bottles at 16 OZ for SUV's is 54.99. It is 14.95 for 1 8 OZ bottle for motorcycles. 119.60 for the same qty.

Packaging costs overheads would be their reasoning I would imagine plus let's screw the bike rider for all we can get

But in all honesty, the website does say that there is a different formula for bike rubber http://www.ride-on.com/prod_mot.asp

Edited October 4, 2010 by Garry