Thai Lawyers Council Blasts Police Over Trash Man's Arrest, Bt133,000 Fine

[webfact]

Lawyers Council blasts police over trash man's arrest, fine

By The Nation

The Lawyers Council of Thailand yesterday criticised police for carelessness and a lack perspective in letting a case go to court after a city garbage collector was arrested and fined Bt133,000 for selling video compact discs that he salvaged from trash.

"Police are the first screening step to help prevent people from being unnecessarily punished, or preventing poor people with no criminal intent from being jailed or facing serious charges. Police should have considered this carefully," council spokesman Sombat Wongkamhaeng said.

Surat Maneenoppharatsuda should not be considered "an entrepreneur" selling copyrighted movies and music without a licence under Article 38 of the Film Act because he worked as a garbage collector for the Saphan Sung District Office and sold the movies he picked out of the rubbish, he said.

Surat also did not intend to make an occupation out of it, but just wanted to earn some extra income for his children, he said.

In a previous case of a boy stealing a steamed bun from a shop, the prosecutors decided not to pursue it, Sombat said.

Kayasit Pisawongprakan, director of the Office of the Attorney-General's criminal-litigation division, said it was regrettable that the defendant did not appeal when the prosecutors were considering whether to indict him on the point that a garbage collector selling what he found in the trash was an entrepreneur by law.

Learning from this case, public prosecutors would strictly apply the guideline of not filing charges in cases deemed not useful to the public, he said.

Bangkok Governor Sukhumbhand Paribatra said his adviser Pol Colonel Sawat Jampasri would take Surat, who was released on bail, to seek legal assistance from the Lawyers Council of Thailand today.

He also instructed the director of the Saphan Sung District Office to provide some assistance to Surat's family.

Surat said he sold the VCDs at Bt20 apiece at a small stall, along with other items found in the trash, because his pay was low and his wife was pregnant, so he wanted some money for expenses.

Surat was arrested two years ago and was later convicted by the Criminal Court and fined Bt133,000.

-- The Nation 2010-08-18

[scorecard]

This is unbelievable:

- Vendors on Solim Road, many other roads and markets, shops at Pantip, etc etc all openly selling same stuff get a shake up every few months and their stock is destroyed (which is in fact no great loss to the vendors, then can have the same discs copied again for less than 10Baht).

- The mercedes boy deliberately drives his car into a crowd at a bus stop killing several people, found guilty, appeals, but two years later appeal still not heard. Probably never will be. Pojaman convicted on massive tax avoidance, appeals but nearly two years later appeal not heard.

- Young toll collector pockets around 7,000Baht, gets 27 years jail. His superiors pocketing millions untouched.

- In this case the man sold a few disks recovered from the trash - gets 133,000Baht fine. Proably close to penniless. Probably won't made that much money from salary in three years. Way way out of balance.

The sooner the police are reorganized the better but hopefully not just moving the chairs around the table.

The judiciary should also be scolded in this case.

Move ahead quickly please PM Abhisit and get some strong and permanent changes in place.

[siampolee]

Little things get squashed by big things. Fleas have fleas upon them.

[marquess]

Agree this is an absurd case, also recall about seven years ago the tollway collector who stole 80k and got 40 years! Just goes to show how disadvantaged the poor are when it comes to the law, especially here.

[coastalmatty]

I agree with the first to comments, the double standards here are unreal they need to shake all this up a bit. start by firing the Police commisioners and start again

[neilf]

I agree with the first to comments, the double standards here are unreal they need to shake all this up a bit. start by firing the Police commisioners and start again

fuedal system keep the peasants in their place

same in uk up to about 70 years ago

[Phuket Stan]

I agree with the first to comments, the double standards here are unreal they need to shake all this up a bit. start by firing the Police commisioners and start again

Strange how there is no comment from the Fat Red Shirt Loudmouth.....I thought that was what the protest was all about....getting some justice for the poor...I originally thought it was a misprint when I saw the fine....Unbelievable

fuedal system keep the peasants in their place

same in uk up to about 70 years ago

[imjustagirl]

Shouldnt the court also be criticized, after all there was a judge that made the ruling....he should have thrown this one out and certainly not put this ridiculous fine on this poor man and his family. This truly is amazing thailand....chuck a poor garbage collector in jail for selling second hand movies, yet i am sitting here watching KickAsss movie playing with thai dubbing, only just released to dvd, being played on cable tv, completely flouting the copyright and distribution law for all to see - including law enforcement at all levels.

I dont see the police rushing to the cable tv station to arrest all involved.....

Edited August 18, 2010 by imjustagirl

[scorecard]

I agree with the first to comments, the double standards here are unreal they need to shake all this up a bit. start by firing the Police commisioners and start again

Strange how there is no comment from the Fat Red Shirt Loudmouth.....I thought that was what the protest was all about....getting some justice for the poor...I originally thought it was a misprint when I saw the fine....Unbelievable

fuedal system keep the peasants in their place

same in uk up to about 70 years ago

Copied from above: "Strange how there is no comment from the Fat Red Shirt Loudmouth.....I thought that was what the protest was all about....getting some justice for the poor... "

Couldn't agree more.

[Robby nz]

Indeed sillyness on the part of the police (law)

It means that the local garbage collectors who live a few houses away from us and sell all the plastic, glass bottles, scrap metal and cardboard the retreive from the rubbish truck are doing it illegaly.

Or maybe not, these things arent copyright.

[animatic]

This is unbelievable:

- Vendors on Solim Road, many other roads and markets, shops at Pantip, etc etc all openly selling same stuff get a shake up every few months and their stock is destroyed (which is in fact no great loss to the vendors, then can have the same discs copied again for less than 10Baht).

- The mercedes boy deliberately drives his car into a crowd at a bus stop killing several people, found guilty, appeals, but two years later appeal still not heard. Probably never will be. Pojaman convicted on massive tax avoidance, appeals but nearly two years later appeal not heard.

- Young toll collector pockets around 7,000Baht, gets 27 years jail. His superiors pocketing millions untouched.

- In this case the man sold a few disks recovered from the trash - gets 133,000Baht fine. Proably close to penniless. Probably won't made that much money from salary in three years. Way way out of balance.

The sooner the police are reorganized the better but hopefully not just moving the chairs around the table.

The judiciary should also be scolded in this case.

Move ahead quickly please PM Abhisit and get some strong and permanent changes in place.

Agreed Just idiotic logic used here.

[hoaker]

Thailand laws are based on the emotions of these crooked cops, attorneys and judges. Logic and common sense is thrown out the door, human rights are violated and the disparity between horrific crimes and minor ones are narrow. Of course, Silom road and Panthip plaza are full of pirated CD's, but these stalls are sharing their profits with the Lumpini police extortion unit so they are free from arrest, who cares about laws, we the "police, counselors and judges" make them up as we go!!!

[Motoon]

Double standards everywhere and a very long way to go...but at least some of it gets now reported, contrary to a few years ago where no one gave a dam_n.

Edited August 18, 2010 by Motoon

[scorecard]

I agree with the first to comments, the double standards here are unreal they need to shake all this up a bit. start by firing the Police commisioners and start again

Strange how there is no comment from the Fat Red Shirt Loudmouth.....I thought that was what the protest was all about....getting some justice for the poor...I originally thought it was a misprint when I saw the fine....Unbelievable

fuedal system keep the peasants in their place

same in uk up to about 70 years ago

Copied from above: "Strange how there is no comment from the Fat Red Shirt Loudmouth.....I thought that was what the protest was all about....getting some justice for the poor... "

Couldn't agree more.

If jatuporn and his ilk were genuine about fighting for equal justice / no double standards, then this would provide a perfect case for them to run with.

Just shows how genuine they are.

[Lancelot]

Good to see the Thai judiciary stand up and make a "spirited" defense on behalf of a poor person, struggling to make ends meet.

Much better to stamp out piracy at the top and go after the big fish supplying the counterfit goods. Alas, it happens everywhere-catch a few small fry for some good press, then its back to business as usual. To much money to be made...

[SamritT]

Shouldnt the court also be criticized, after all there was a judge that made the ruling....he should have thrown this one out and certainly not put this ridiculous fine on this poor man and his family. This truly is amazing thailand....chuck a poor garbage collector in jail for selling second hand movies, yet i am sitting here watching KickAsss movie playing with thai dubbing, only just released to dvd, being played on cable tv, completely flouting the copyright and distribution law for all to see - including law enforcement at all levels. I dont see the police rushing to the cable tv station to arrest all involved.....

If you criticize court, you go to jail. They are untouchable by law....

[kuffki]

I am sorry but Thai lawyers are in no place to critisize anyone. Not only they sell out their clients interest to the other side for the right price, but worry more about saving face then practicing law.

[marquess]

I agree with the first to comments, the double standards here are unreal they need to shake all this up a bit. start by firing the Police commisioners and start again

fuedal system keep the peasants in their place

same in uk up to about 70 years ago

Not quite so as far back as 1760 (and even further back the Lord Dacre being prosecuted for the murder of a game keeper in 1530's,) the 4th Earl Ferrers was hung at Tyburn for the murder of his steward, a one Mr Johnson. Hi so Murder still go free here even in 2010.

[SamritT]

There must be only 1 law. The same law for the rich and poor. Now the government is saying that it is OK for poor to commit crime, but not OK for the rich to do the same. Do I understand correctly? No wonder Thaksin has to go to jail first. Because he is supper rich. Good on him. Som Num Na.

[chuang]

Agree this is an absurd case, also recall about seven years ago the tollway collector who stole 80k and got 40 years! Just goes to show how disadvantaged the poor are when it comes to the law, especially here.

Yes absurd case comes from an absurd government....

[LanxangBillybob]

It's nice to see that the Lawyer's Council can critizice police.

If this had happened in one of Thailand's neighboring countries, the lawyers responsible would have 'disappeared' and the story would have never made it to print.

[imjustagirl]

There must be only 1 law. The same law for the rich and poor. Now the government is saying that it is OK for poor to commit crime, but not OK for the rich to do the same. Do I understand correctly? No wonder Thaksin has to go to jail first. Because he is supper rich. Good on him. Som Num Na.

you are absolutely right there absolutely should be one law - but why does this law not apply to the rich in thailand? Should there not be some element of common sense used here, he is a binman with little education on distribution laws and was simply selling items no one wanted. Probably selling them for less than the other dvd sellers who were paying a bribe to stay in business.

As i said in my post thai cable tv stations are regularly broadcasting films that are quite clearly not released yet, but nothing is done. Add to that the fact that the punishment does not fit the crime - it seems to fit the bank balance of the person committing the crime. You have money then no problem you get away with it with a 'under the table' contribution to funds, you are poor then you are in court, huge fine and prison. There is a reason that the symbol for justice is blindfolded.... Perhaps the thailand justice image should be an open wallet....

[TAWP]

Agree this is an absurd case, also recall about seven years ago the tollway collector who stole 80k and got 40 years! Just goes to show how disadvantaged the poor are when it comes to the law, especially here.

Yes absurd case comes from an absurd government....

The government does NOT control the courts NOR the police.

This is the fallout of the insane IP-legislation forced upon the third world countries that wish to to commerce with western nations.

[Hyponeros]

Thailand is losing face:

Try to kill 5 police officers you go free, resale VCD found in the garbage you have to pay Bt133,000 fine!

[webfact]

UPDATE

Police Admit Lack of Public Awareness on Copyright

The National Police Office has acknowledged that the case of a trash collector getting fined for selling discarded CDs is somewhat too harsh, saying that either the public and police have not been adequately educated on copyright laws.

National Police Office Spokesman Police Lieutenant General Pongsapat Pongcharoen has donated 50,000 baht of his own money to Surat Maneenopparattanasuda, a Bangkok trash collector who was fined 100,000 baht by the court for reselling old CDs he found during his work.

Pongsapat said he gave the money to Surat to help him repay his debt and the medical expense for his son.

The police spokesman said that Surat's case is indicative of one of Thailand's social problems.

He said deputy national police chief Police General Pansiri Prapawat will review the copyright laws and map out a plan to educate the public more about them.

Pongsapat also addressed junior police officers, telling them to study the laws and understand its purpose so that they can use a right judgment when making arrests.

He said since police are at the front line of the justice system, they must exercise common sense.

He acknowledged that the image of police in Thailand is predominantly negative and called on all officers to work together to correct this impression.

In a separate case, Amporn Nuntawanich, whose husband was arrested on similar charges as Surat, met with Pongsapat today.

Amporn explained that her husband, who was apprehended for reselling CDs he had bought legally, was now serving a year-long jail sentence after failing to pay his 100,000-baht fine. The police spokesman donated another 96,000 to help her.

-- Tan Network 2010-08-18

[Tanaka]

This is unbelievable:

- Vendors on Solim Road, many other roads and markets, shops at Pantip, etc etc all openly selling same stuff get a shake up every few months and their stock is destroyed (which is in fact no great loss to the vendors, then can have the same discs copied again for less than 10Baht).

- The mercedes boy deliberately drives his car into a crowd at a bus stop killing several people, found guilty, appeals, but two years later appeal still not heard. Probably never will be. Pojaman convicted on massive tax avoidance, appeals but nearly two years later appeal not heard.

- Young toll collector pockets around 7,000Baht, gets 27 years jail. His superiors pocketing millions untouched.

- In this case the man sold a few disks recovered from the trash - gets 133,000Baht fine. Proably close to penniless. Probably won't made that much money from salary in three years. Way way out of balance.

The sooner the police are reorganized the better but hopefully not just moving the chairs around the table.

The judiciary should also be scolded in this case.

Move ahead quickly please PM Abhisit and get some strong and permanent changes in place.

Agreed Just idiotic logic used here.

No, there is no logic whatsoever. Like so often here.

[teatree]

The rich and powerful are insane.

[farangene]

Hopefully, the appeal lawyers will show their client was re-selling the cds only as a reflective safety apparatus for bikes and motorcycles.

He was thus performing a public service to improve the safety of the roads and vehicles which has nothing to do with copyright infringement.

[scorecard]

There must be only 1 law. The same law for the rich and poor. Now the government is saying that it is OK for poor to commit crime, but not OK for the rich to do the same. Do I understand correctly? No wonder Thaksin has to go to jail first. Because he is supper rich. Good on him. Som Num Na.

Nobody has suggested that it's OK for the poor to commit crime. People are saying that this case lacks balance and lacks consistency.

[webfact]

UPDATE

Police campaign to warn public on VCD selling

By The Nation

The wife of an autopart shop assistant - arrested for selling old VCD movies on a Bangkok pedestrian bridge - has appealed to National Police spokesman MajGeneral Pongsapat Pongcharoen, saying the discs belonged to the couple's son.

Amporn Nitcharoen, 45, told Pongsapat her husband Somchai Nanthawanich, 46, was arrested by Bang Mod plainclothes police on June 5 for taking 19 VCD movies - which his son had bought and got bored of -along with old clothes to sell on the Rama 2 pedestrian bridge.

She said the officers demanded Bt2,000 so Somchai wouldn't face charges, but her husband refused and was taken to the police station.

Pongsapat took Amporn to help pay the Bt95,000 fine at the Thon Buri Criminal Court yesterday to free her husband. Bang Mod police also carried out a probe into allegations the two officers demanded a bribe from Somchai.

Meanwhile, city garbage collector Surat Maneenoppharatsuda - fined Bt133,000 for selling VCDs he salvaged from the trash - yesterday received Bt50,000 assistance money from Pongsapat to repay money his family had borrowed from a loan shark to fight the court battle.

Surat promised not to sell VCD movies again and urged others not to also, because it was against the law. Surat said he would later seek legal advice from the Lawyers Council of Thailand.

Pongsapat said the Royal Thai Police had lined up deputy police chief General Pansiri Prapawat to work with the Culture Ministry on a public relations campaign for more awareness of this new law.

A seminar would soon be organised for police officers nationwide about reinforcement of the law so that treatment of law violators would be correct, Pongsapat said. A guideline for proceeding according to the law would also be provided to all law enforcers.

Pongsapat urged people facing problems similar to Surat's to contact police so related agencies could help them either before or after conviction.

-- The Nation 2010-08-19