Tourist's Arrest Scary Experience

[Bluffer]

SOI 4 is a 21 year limit not 18 because of the gay bars.

From about 9pm on there is almost always a mobile sign with a couple of thais checking ids - they do seem to be fairly lax in doing it though. But the sign in plain english says you must be over 21.

Apart from the other points already raised about finding out basic laws, if the mother was that concerned why did she let her precious daughter out on her own in a street full of gay bars without checking up on basics.

The Thai cop was absolutely correct, ignorance is no defence. Imagine walking into an airport with pills of e being arrested and then climing you didnt know it was against the law in UK, US, France, Germany....... see how far that defence will get you. ( ok an extreme example but the principle is still the same.)

[Simpleton]

What do the gay bars have to do with it?

[Bluffer]

No tourist can be expected to know every law of every country they visit.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Yes they can and should know the major ones around the activities they are going to do. Read a &lt;deleted&gt; guide book. Its not that hard you know.

    What do the gay bars have to do with it?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

gay bars have a higher age limit than straight bars. about 90% of the bars on soi 4 are gay so........

Edited July 12, 2005 by Bluffer

[dr_Pat_Pong]

The legal age for drinking in the US is 21 NOT 20

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

And foreigners drinking underage get charged in the US too. Even Dubya's daughters got done.

[opothai]

yes the law is the law, but for a 19 year old tourist to be teated this way is not going to be good for tourism along with everything that has happened over the past year or so [bar hours, raids,shootings, tsunami, bird flu, sars,malaria outbreaks], it beggars the question does the thai government want to encourage tourism or do they not need foreign currency.

[britmaveric]

I dare say any underage drinker will think twice after reading about this?

[Kerryd]

The legal age for drinking in the US is 21 NOT 20

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

And foreigners drinking underage get charged in the US too. Even Dubya's daughters got done.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Remember that thread where the guy was whining about being caught smuggling 50 cases of cigarettes into the country. He had done it a couple of times before and never got caught, and when he did get caught, was upset about it (his arguement was similar to: "How was I supposed to know it's illegal to smuggle in Thailand" ?).

As I recall, he didn't get a lot of sympathy from the other forum members.

Too many arrogant people travel the world and get upset when things aren't exactly the way they are back in Loserville.

As for the drinking age in Thailand. In May, a group of friends and I went from one club in Pattaya (where they worked), to a different club (managed by the same farang manager). The doormen stopped us to check ID's, one of the girls in the group (a go-go dancer) was only 19 and was denied entrance (even after the mamasan phoned the manager directly).

She had been working (as a dancer) for 8 months, no problem, but she had to be 20 to legally drink in the same club she worked in (T.I.T.).

We had a little party for her (in her club) a week later when she officially turned 20. The big joke was that she was finally old enough to drink in the same club that she worked in !

[Simpleton]

Who told you gay bars have a higher age limit than straight ones do? I've never heard of such a thing. And who told you that "90%" of the bars in Soi 4 are "gay"? In fact, there only only 3: Telephone, Balcony, and Sphinx.

[mrbojangles]

The legal age for drinking in the US is 21 NOT 20

And foreigners drinking underage get charged in the US too. Even Dubya's daughters got done.

Remember that thread where the guy was whining about being caught smuggling 50 cases of cigarettes into the country. He had done it a couple of times before and never got caught, and when he did get caught, was upset about it (his arguement was similar to: "How was I supposed to know it's illegal to smuggle in Thailand" ?).

As I recall, he didn't get a lot of sympathy from the other forum members.

Too many arrogant people travel the world and get upset when things aren't exactly the way they are back in Loserville.

Well said Kerryd

[Insight]

I dare say any underage drinker will think twice after reading about this?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I dare say any tourist will think twice after reading about this?

You may all have your points about "the law's the law" etc etc., but doesn't anybody think she was treated a bit on the heavy-handed side?

What would usually happen in (most of) our own countries, despite the law? Drinks confiscated, slap on the wrist, told to find somewhere else to go?

No. Not here. Thrown in the slammer, treated like a criminal and given one single phone call for help.

I wasn't aware of the "20 or over" law until they started with this silly "social order" campagin about 2 years ago - it certainly wasn't made clear even when you asked bar staff or owners before then, and there's plenty of places the police know well about now where underage (as in around 18 or above) drinking is still the norm.

Tourists, you are wanted in Thailand, honest! Just don't step slightly out of line or else.

[Simpleton]

The Social Order Campaign has been with us for four years now, hasn't it?

[britmaveric]

Insight - sort of reminds me of that youngster in Singapore. He was caught vandalizing. Punishment was caning.

Anyways - need to be careful when u visit other countries. I'd prob gone the slap on the wrist, but seems they were out to make a point. Plus who knows maybe youngster or father got mouthy to them?

[Insight]

The Social Order Campaign has been with us for four years now, hasn't it?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

It has, but I've personally only noticed the "20 or over" signs go up in the past 2 years or so.

[mrbojangles]

Plus who knows maybe youngster or father got mouthy to them?

It's a good point that Brit. We only ever hear the "I was treated like this and that" side of the story from the "victims". We never get to hear if indeed they where being a 'tad' lippy

[womble]

The point here is not that the law was broken. She broke the law, and should be punished, it is her responsibility to check up on legalitys.

They have absolutley no right to complain about this, they broke the law, and should accept whatever punishment the law of the land deals out.

However, it does sound as if they were treated badly, whenever a forigner is arrested, it should be routine that a tourist policeman and an interpreter are present before any signing of decuments etc.

She broke the law, she should accept that.

This does look very bad on Thailand and it's police force, and shows what contempt they hold for us forigners.

Singaporeans will be put off by this if the word gets out, not because she broke the law, but because of the way she was treated.

[Ijustwannateach]

I would like to see the regulation that creates discriminatory aging policies towards gay bars?

As far as I'm aware, though I rarely go, the preferred legal age limit for *working* in the gay "host" bars is 20, so I would hardly expect there to be a legal age of 21 simply to *drink* in a gay bar.

I would expect the 21-year age limit to be more the result of the following possible guesses:

1. The dodgy straight-oriented discos which are now unfortunately numerous on that street, and which are raided for drugs more frequently than the gay bars (when individual places are raided rather than the whole street).

2. Since this is a semi-tourist zone, they want to avoid the hassle and bad press that comes from, um, innocent Americans who find out that 21 is not the drinking age and 18 is not the age of consent the whole world over.

"Steven"

[Simpleton]

Singaporeans will be put off by this if the word gets out, not because she broke the law, but because of the way she was treated.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

It sounds as if she was treated politely throughout the episode. Nowhere do I see that she was shouted at, handcuffed, man-handled, cursed, or thrown into a pit. She should stop whining.

[Khun Larry]

Just another "Thailand Tale" of a rude inconsiderate host country

Classic Thailand

[petedk]

However, it does sound as if they were treated badly, whenever a forigner is arrested, it should be routine that a tourist policeman and an interpreter are present before any signing of decuments etc.

It's interesting to see how many of you say that the tourist police should be involved.

I know quite a few Thai people who work at the airport and through their job often have to deal with difficult (and sometimes aggressive) foreigners. I asked them why they didn't get help from the tourist police only to be told that "the tourist police cannot speak English. All they can do is stand and stare". If this is true then I don't see what help they can be.

Tourists, you are wanted in Thailand, honest! Just don't step slightly out of line or else.

Correction: Tourists, you are NOT wanted in Thailand but we DO WANT your money.

These same Thai people have used very similar words to me " We don't like you foreigners, but we like your money"

I am sure that in the above case the police were hoping for some kind of extra money.

[singa-traz]

Singaporeans will be put off by this if the word gets out, not because she broke the law, but because of the way she was treated.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Singaporeans will continue to come here for shopping.

[britmaveric]

petedk - not sure who you associate with, but I for one know I am welcome as many of my mates who work/live in thailand. It's how you act and behave that makes a difference to thai people.

[Simpleton]

Hear, hear, Britmaveric. I was thinking of an appropriate response to peterdk's comments, and you hit the nail on the head.

[Richard W]

Anyone who goes to a foreign country and claims ignorance of even the most basic things about that country is, well, ignorant!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

As for signing something that was written in Thai.....yeah she was in Thailand. If you can't understand it, call the tourist Police or pay an interpreter. Does she think the Police will have on stand-by an interpreter of every language on this Earth.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Not every language, perhaps, but quite a few. The police in London certainly have ready access to Thai translators.

Richard.

[Simpleton]

Anyone who goes to a foreign country and claims ignorance of even the most basic things about that country is, well, ignorant!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

As for signing something that was written in Thai.....yeah she was in Thailand. If you can't understand it, call the tourist Police or pay an interpreter. Does she think the Police will have on stand-by an interpreter of every language on this Earth.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Not every language, perhaps, but quite a few. The police in London certainly have ready access to Thai translators.

Richard.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Right, and they'd call in an interpreter for something as earth-shaking as this...

[dannishgung]

<snip> Read the forum rules.

Edited July 13, 2005 by meadish_sweetball

[moebius]

I don't see an impropriety in any of the actions of the police as indicated in the story.

Just as I fail to find any sympathy whatsoever with every whiner who has a run-in with the law(s) of any country they travel to simply because they fail to check what is on the other side of line before they cross it.

It is simple naivete and if the parent had gotten the tourist police involved they probably would have explained this in terms the police might understand.

Really, the fact that Thailand has Tourism police in the first place is far, far more progressive than most will find in many other countries abroad. Those who recognise what is well and good about this country will appreciate it and will keep coming (or stay) here. Those who insist otherwise are living in a dreamworld and might do well to stick to Disneyland.

;0)

[slapdashkitty]

Oh yet another Singaporean whiner...

"You mean the whole world is not exactly the same as Singapore...?"

I think complaining should be their national sport.

[The Dan Sai Kid]

So in Singapore ignorance of the law means that laws don't apply to you...

Being arrested for being an underage drinker is not an infringement of civil liberties. However, how many bar girls are that age and nothing is done about that.

Some consistency would be nice.

[WISteve]

Thais can WORK in an entertainment facility at 18, but must be 20 years of age to be "entertained" there.

There are a number of states here in the US where you can work in a bar at 18, but must be 21 to consume alcohol. If a minor is caught consuming alcohol, the minor, the bartender AND the owner are all subject to penalty.

This whole story is just unrealistic expectations on the part of this Sing Princess and her coddling parents. If a Thai minor was caught here in small town America consuming alcohol, the parent or guardian would be required to come to the police station before they would be released. They would have to sign a signature bond or promise to appear notice and it would be in English. You would be hard pressed to find a Thai interpretor on short notice out here in the Sticks.......

I don't see it mentioned anywhere that she was treated badly. But when you are traveling you are subject to the law of the land you are visiting.

Don't expect special treatment. Do plan to act responsibly.

~WISteve

[petedk]

petedk - not sure who you associate with, but I for one know I am welcome as many of my mates who work/live in thailand. It's how you act and behave that makes a difference to thai people.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Britmaveric and Simpleton please don't misunderstand me.

The Thais that I associate with and said this to me are very good friends. I love Thailand and Thai people and have many Thai friends and get on well with them and yes I am welcome too.

I believe what they meant was that in general Thais don't want foreigners here. They prefer to be left alone but they do want the foreigners money.

I experience this daily (as I am sure you all do) when shopping in small shops and taking motorcycle taxis etc. "Farang have money ... farang pay more".