Fitness First..

[Lammbock]

Man...she is a sales women. Get your balls together.

[Svenn]

Not to be a contrarian OP, but I think you sort of led them on in this situation as well... if all you wanted to do is 'look around', you should have taken her quick little walking tour then said goodbye... both them were obviously confused when you sat down, gave them your credit card, and then talked for 10 minutes about the plans (or your non-desire for one). Now that's not say they weren't pushy, they certainly were, but it sounds like you were acting ambiguously. Oh, and American consumer protection laws are equal if not stronger than Oz, I don't think it's fair to say she learned her tricks from the US The take-home lesson is to be on guard everywhere in Thailand... even in a high-class suburban gym, you're still gonna get the patpong night bazaar sales-pitch treatment.

[Will1]

Posted Yesterday, 14:47

I rarely have need to whinge about the usual day to day things that can test you in LOS, but thought id make an exception after visiting a Fitness first gym here in Bangkok. I wont name the particular branch,suffice to say it is was in suburban BK, in a large mall.

I havent even looked at joining a gym here so i thought i would just go along and check out whats on offer and what the facilities were like.

I talked with a very nice polite (thai) girl, not great English but easy enough to understand. She showed me around and I was quite impressed by the new looking gear,cleanliness of of locker rooms, nice lounge ect ect..even had a wall of DVD's you can borrow for two days..give you a few (supposedly) freebies if signing up for a year..all good

So the girl takes me back to a cubicle and talks about the latest promotion and what the possible options were.

I was quite happy at this point and was pondering the five month plan as opposed to the yearly one, as not sure of how long i would be staying in Thailand. I can say i am quite used to usual sales pitch...quote a larger price+ multiple joining fees ect, then scratch out one fee to make you believe you are getting something for nothing..all the usual BS.

At this point the girl asks for my credit card, stating that she will check whether she can offer a special deal for using this particular card.

She wonders off for a little while and returns with another girl. I was not quite sure of her nationality, at first glance she looked like a typical thai but when she spoke it sounded as if she had an American accent, so maybe grew up or uni educated in the US..

I suspect she was wearing those queer contact lenses that makes one look a bit like a cat..quite offputting to me and i dont know why they do that or how they can think its appealing, but each to their own.

Anyway, she goes over all the same details as the other girl has already said, which was a bit tedious. She asks for my passport which i dont have on me. Not sure why she would ask for this but anyway.

Then she says "OK, which deal will you be signing up for today?"

I explain for the second time i am just looking for now, i will not be signing up for anything today. This seems to go way over her head again however, as she goes on about what a great deal it was,how she could only offer this today..ect ect

"SO, supposing you were to sign up today, which option would you take?"

me:..well i guess if were to consider anything, it would be the 5 month plan as i am not yet sure how long i will be staying

"Ok you can sign up today..your credit card please.."

me..well,...err..again.... i am not signing up for anything today

This banter goes on for another 10 minutes with me having to repeat the last line at least another three times.

At this stage ive had enough and just remember they still have my credit card, so it was a strange this girl would ask for it. I tell her they already have my card and id like it back thanks.

She says " but you wait, i will give you a free fitness test for today"

I tell her im not waiting, i dont want any test, and i want my card back.

She goes on to tell me that i am quite stupid for not wanting the free test, it only takes a few minutes...<deleted>!!!

Give me back my card..NOW

The thai girl is watching all this and is clearly quite uncomfortable with it. She nods and hurries of to get my card. Meanwhile the other one practically takes my hand an forces me over to another room with a few scales and stuff..OK whatever.

They note hieght and age and i get on what looks like a typical scale..

Low and behold a spectacular printout is produced... Apart from all the jargon of percentages of body fat and this and that, it tells me that i need to loose 9 kgs...

funny that, as the last time i checked 78kgs for a guy of 180cms was pretty good...perfect in fact.

I dont know how they could claim this machine can tell you all these details, and i may well be stupid as she says, but i am definately stupified as to how anyone, thai or otherwise, could believe the validity of this crap.

The thai girls returns with my card, and asks if she can give me a follow up phone call..I say ok but i wont be talking to the other pushy one. She doesnt understand what ive said but im sure the other one does and she pretends not to hear it and storms off.

With this, the thai girl whais and offers multiple apologies and says i can call her and she will give me one day trial for free ok?

Its a shame as the place had great facilities at not to bad a price, but the behaviour of that lady ruled it out for me and id sooner join up with the local no frills joint nearby at the same price than support the wages of this person.

I wont even be taking up the free day offer,although they reckon its worth 535 baht to go for one day.

If this person or anyone else that works for FF should ever happen to read this i hope they will realise that this sort of crap will turn away many more potential customers than any harrasment or bullying will ever produce..

The thai girl was quite nice and i suspect doing a good job..to bad she has to put up with this other ***** daily.

FF..i can think of a few prime words for those letters

:realangry:

1

• Posted Yesterday, 14:47
  I rarely have need to whinge about the usual day to day things that can test you in LOS, but thought id make an exception after visiting a Fitness first gym here in Bangkok. I wont name the particular branch,suffice to say it is was in suburban BK, in a large mall.
  I havent even looked at joining a gym here so i thought i would just go along and check out whats on offer and what the facilities were like.
  I talked with a very nice polite (thai) girl, not great English but easy enough to understand. She showed me around and I was quite impressed by the new looking gear,cleanliness of of locker rooms, nice lounge ect ect..even had a wall of DVD's you can borrow for two days..give you a few (supposedly) freebies if signing up for a year..all good
  So the girl takes me back to a cubicle and talks about the latest promotion and what the possible options were.
  I was quite happy at this point and was pondering the five month plan as opposed to the yearly one, as not sure of how long i would be staying in Thailand. I can say i am quite used to usual sales pitch...quote a larger price+ multiple joining fees ect, then scratch out one fee to make you believe you are getting something for nothing..all the usual BS.
  At this point the girl asks for my credit card, stating that she will check whether she can offer a special deal for using this particular card.
  She wonders off for a little while and returns with another girl. I was not quite sure of her nationality, at first glance she looked like a typical thai but when she spoke it sounded as if she had an American accent, so maybe grew up or uni educated in the US..
  I suspect she was wearing those queer contact lenses that makes one look a bit like a cat..quite offputting to me and i dont know why they do that or how they can think its appealing, but each to their own.
  Anyway, she goes over all the same details as the other girl has already said, which was a bit tedious. She asks for my passport which i dont have on me. Not sure why she would ask for this but anyway.
  Then she says "OK, which deal will you be signing up for today?"
  I explain for the second time i am just looking for now, i will not be signing up for anything today. This seems to go way over her head again however, as she goes on about what a great deal it was,how she could only offer this today..ect ect
  "SO, supposing you were to sign up today, which option would you take?"
  me:..well i guess if were to consider anything, it would be the 5 month plan as i am not yet sure how long i will be staying
  "Ok you can sign up today..your credit card please.."
  me..well,...err..again.... i am not signing up for anything today
  This banter goes on for another 10 minutes with me having to repeat the last line at least another three times.
  At this stage ive had enough and just remember they still have my credit card, so it was a strange this girl would ask for it. I tell her they already have my card and id like it back thanks.
  She says " but you wait, i will give you a free fitness test for today"
  I tell her im not waiting, i dont want any test, and i want my card back.
  She goes on to tell me that i am quite stupid for not wanting the free test, it only takes a few minutes...<deleted>!!!
  Give me back my card..NOW
  The thai girl is watching all this and is clearly quite uncomfortable with it. She nods and hurries of to get my card. Meanwhile the other one practically takes my hand an forces me over to another room with a few scales and stuff..OK whatever.
  They note hieght and age and i get on what looks like a typical scale..
  Low and behold a spectacular printout is produced... Apart from all the jargon of percentages of body fat and this and that, it tells me that i need to loose 9 kgs...
  funny that, as the last time i checked 78kgs for a guy of 180cms was pretty good...perfect in fact.
  I dont know how they could claim this machine can tell you all these details, and i may well be stupid as she says, but i am definately stupified as to how anyone, thai or otherwise, could believe the validity of this crap.
  The thai girls returns with my card, and asks if she can give me a follow up phone call..I say ok but i wont be talking to the other pushy one. She doesnt understand what ive said but im sure the other one does and she pretends not to hear it and storms off.
  With this, the thai girl whais and offers multiple apologies and says i can call her and she will give me one day trial for free ok?
  Its a shame as the place had great facilities at not to bad a price, but the behaviour of that lady ruled it out for me and id sooner join up with the local no frills joint nearby at the same price than support the wages of this person.
  I wont even be taking up the free day offer,although they reckon its worth 535 baht to go for one day.
  If this person or anyone else that works for FF should ever happen to read this i hope they will realise that this sort of crap will turn away many more potential customers than any harrasment or bullying will ever produce..
  The thai girl was quite nice and i suspect doing a good job..to bad she has to put up with this other ***** daily.
  FF..i can think of a few prime words for those letters
  :realangry:
  This post has been edited by ozzieovaseas: Yesterday, 15:03
  Build a system that even a fool can use and only a fool will want to use it

Man...she is a sales women. Get your balls together.

Yeah, she is just doing her job.

[ozzieovaseas]

Man...she is a sales women. Get your balls together.

So you would be Ok with being hassled, not taking no for an answer and being told your stupid for not taking up their offer?

Also people trying to prevent you from leaving the joint?

then afterwards putting up with phone calls all hours of the day when your trying to sleep..as another poster has mentioned?

[bkkjames]

Jack nicklaus when asked why he does not use a mobile phone said, "when was the last time someone called you to give you something?"

Like insurance people and other fitness touts you see in malls/bts, a wide birth is required, regardless of how cute she is.

Begs the question, how many of you blindly take those flyers people push at you on the stairs of the bts etc out of guilt?

Edited August 21, 2010 by bkkjames

[Lammbock]

Man...she is a sales women. Get your balls together.

So you would be Ok with being hassled, not taking no for an answer and being told your stupid for not taking up their offer?

Also people trying to prevent you from leaving the joint?

then afterwards putting up with phone calls all hours of the day when your trying to sleep..as another poster has mentioned?

First of all I am to busy to get a nap during the day. So feel free to call any time.

Ofcourse. A good sales man/women do this kind of stuff. I would do anything to sale my product.

Telling you that you are stupid if you not buy, this is the chance of your lifetime, stuff like that.

I would kick your ass right out of the door if you would be my employee and doing thinks like that:

Hello, would you like to training here?

No. i don't want.

Ok, bye.

A good sales man/women is aggressive. He/She do anything to get the deal done.

[NamF0n]

^^

A good sales person would have got him to buy at a later date this one made sure he wont, you seem to believe that everyone that walks through the door is instantly going to buy and that the hard sell is the only way to go.

[Pikey]

How do members of the WOW gym in Thailand rate it and would you recommend it? I joined one in Singapore before and it was great, the staff were also very keen but not pushy.

I've only been a member of the Chiang Mai CAWOW since March and really like it. I go 3 days a week and most members of staff are pretty friendly. Some of the PTs are a bit aloof but it's not like I give a dam_n about them anyway. I first went as a guest and made it clear that if I joined, I did not want to be hassled with constant phone calls e.t.c. To be fair to them, I didn't get that or asked for my CC in advance and I joined their lifetime membership for what I consider a good price. Not the cheapest probably but considerably less than their opening gambit.

What was funny was that when I joined I got a 6 week free trial for my (Thai) wife and each time we went together they were asking if she was going to join that day. The lifetime membership deal was the original amount I'd been quoted and was only available for a limited time. After a couple of weeks of this we finally got it for her for the same rate as mine. Now when we go, the staff are fine and courteous and not pushy at all.

Cheers,

Pikey.

[Gobbledoc]

I wonder if they put 5 months on your credit card, worth keeping an eye on !!!!

[canuckamuck]

I got boxed in while trying to buy some car wax in Carefour once. I wasn't looking for advice I grabbed the wax I wanted while the wholes sales team was there doing a wax talk or something. The leader got in front of me with a different wax and said I should buy that one. I said no it's way too expensive. It was three times the price of the one I had. He said no it isn't. I said it cost much more than the one I have in my hand. He said no it doesn't (it did). I turned around put the wax back on the shelf and pushed past two of the grunts that had moved in behind me.

Not a big deal, but they went from a guaranteed sale, to a never in million years will I buy your wax, in about 3 minutes flat.

[Pnow]

All timeshare tactics. Most are probably ex Laguna staff who use the same tactics. It all starts with filling in a survey at a coffee booth. Result: days and days getting phone calls. When turning up to receive your gift they will do anything in their power to get the deal!

Ok, its sales. And cant blame them wanting to sell you. Fair enough. Thats the way they make a living

[Tonto21]

These sale people are such bone heads! These aggressive methods employed are so crap, so they trap a few punters, WOW! Should that be Cal WOW? The only thing they correctly do is work on a known sales fact, that when a potential customer leaves it’s very doubtful he’ll be back, so they really have one small window to close the deal. That is where there sales knowledge and skill seems to peter out.

They, (the sales people) have it all on their side, punters walk in to look around, and as such despite what the punter says………With the right buttons pressed, he/she will sign up. So what do they do? Try the sweet mouth first, if that doesn’t work……..Plan “B” go hard sale! Yes I could see this form of sale pitch working on some nationalities for one reason or another, but not many. I tend to think people buy from sales men/women they connect with. Reminds me of the saying; It’s easier to pull a piece of string across a table than it is to push it!

[CanInBKK]

I do wonder how places like Cal Wow can stay in business with their cashflow. A few years ago they offered lifetime memberships (maybe they still do) and since then the number of "users" has gone up significantly while the cashflow has slowed to a crawl. I'm sure the rent in places like Paragon, Esplanade and other malls must be quite hefty given the large square footage these places take up.

So how can this company stay in business?

If you look at a chart of the shares it looks like many believe their prospects have declined over the last few years, it now trades at 49 satangs when it used to trade over 5 bt per share. The value of the whole company is now less than 270 mil bt with debt of 400+ mil bt. They may not be with us much longer!

I know of 4 or 5 students at the university on soi 23 who pay 2000 baht a month for 2 years to use Cal. Wow and only at the Soi 23 branch. They are committed for the 2 years as they submitted their credit cards (or parents' cards).

So if this the new sales method then I'm sure cash flow won't be a problem. Just walk by any branch especially in the evenings and see how many people are being "captured".

Wordchild, I just took a look at CAWOW on settrade and it's financial statements are truly abysmal!!! Retained loss 10 times their cash, and assets receivable of less than 30m and a net loss of almost 300m last year......I think you're on to something, it's quite possible that they'll be gone soon. I don't think the students at the university are typical....eventually they'll find out what other people are (or really, aren't) paying and quit.

Edited August 21, 2010 by CanInBKK

[robblok]

Wordchild, I just took a look at CAWOW on settrade and it's financial statements are truly abysmal!!! Retained loss 10 times their cash, and assets receivable of less than 30m and a net loss of almost 300m last year......I think you're on to something, it's quite possible that they'll be gone soon. I don't think the students at the university are typical....eventually they'll find out what other people are (or really, aren't) paying and quit.

They (financial statements) have been bad for a while... but they are still around. When i joined they were bad and that is 2 years ago.

[surayu]

haha, this girl also asked the question why did i come here today then

Maybe all these same responses are in the training manual

Yes i am thinking the same, as exactly the same words were offered to me during a check in at one hotel in BKK many months ago, basically after they tried to give me some of the usual "bulls" on why the room i booked was now twice the price on the printed voucher they provided me with, i had to cut short and quote the previous attempt on an earlier date to steal my cash and for which i never complained for (basically i paid cash one of the 2 receptionists, she took the money and spent sometime apparently inputting all my informations on her pc, then when she finished her other colleague asked me again for the cash, after at least 5 minutes her dirty hands colleague eventually decided to give up when they saw i was quite sure of what i did and not letting the thing go so easily, ah ahh), i was really going to follow their suggestion if the "curfew" imposed by the government at that time wasn't in place, it's a shame because i did like the place and the location, however on my last time there, having to deal with 5 receptionists all giving me the same crap and leaving the "trainee" leading them wasn't the best service they could offer for sure, the managers were nowhere to be found as apparently they don't work at night and also the day managers in holidays, mmmm......i don't know why but just now it reminded me of all those posters quoting " if you don't like it why don't you jump on a plane and leave?" ah ah they are all reading the same manual for sure

[ozzieovaseas]

These sale people are such bone heads! These aggressive methods employed are so crap, so they trap a few punters, WOW! Should that be Cal WOW? The only thing they correctly do is work on a known sales fact, that when a potential customer leaves it's very doubtful he'll be back, so they really have one small window to close the deal. That is where there sales knowledge and skill seems to peter out.

They, (the sales people) have it all on their side, punters walk in to look around, and as such despite what the punter says………With the right buttons pressed, he/she will sign up. So what do they do? Try the sweet mouth first, if that doesn't work……..Plan "B" go hard sale! Yes I could see this form of sale pitch working on some nationalities for one reason or another, but not many. I tend to think people buy from sales men/women they connect with. Reminds me of the saying; It's easier to pull a piece of string across a table than it is to push it!

Yes, you have pretty much nailed the point i was making in the first post...especially with the string analogy.

Seeing how posters have metioned CalWow in the same vain, theres obviously some fierce competition in the industry, which gives more reason to think they are doing themselves a huge disservice by adopting such extreme strategies.

The thing is (for me anyway) the actual product stood up for itself..so much so that i would have thought the obnoxious hard sell was not really needed.

As i said earlier, I couldnt find fault with anything..they had it all.. all the various gear you could ever need, locker rooms in good nick, lounge area nice, small but convenient coffee shop, air con ok, newspapers in thai and english..

My general feel and perception of the place was all good when talking to the Thai girl, and there was a good chance i would have taken one of the plans in the future, or at least taken on the trial period offer.

After the bad taste in my mouth from the heavy handed one im now looking at a no-frills place nearer my hotel. It has nothing like what FF offers and is around the same price..but no attitude and no BS about "discounts" for joining fee that shouldnt exist anyway OR hard sell from obnoxious rude and desperate salespeople.

Just lucky that the FF girl caught me after my temperament has been somewhat thai-climatised, she would have copped a very nice serve from me if this had occured on my first visit

[wordchild]

I do wonder how places like Cal Wow can stay in business with their cashflow. A few years ago they offered lifetime memberships (maybe they still do) and since then the number of "users" has gone up significantly while the cashflow has slowed to a crawl. I'm sure the rent in places like Paragon, Esplanade and other malls must be quite hefty given the large square footage these places take up.

So how can this company stay in business?

If you look at a chart of the shares it looks like many believe their prospects have declined over the last few years, it now trades at 49 satangs when it used to trade over 5 bt per share. The value of the whole company is now less than 270 mil bt with debt of 400+ mil bt. They may not be with us much longer!

I know of 4 or 5 students at the university on soi 23 who pay 2000 baht a month for 2 years to use Cal. Wow and only at the Soi 23 branch. They are committed for the 2 years as they submitted their credit cards (or parents' cards).

So if this the new sales method then I'm sure cash flow won't be a problem. Just walk by any branch especially in the evenings and see how many people are being "captured".

Wordchild, I just took a look at CAWOW on settrade and it's financial statements are truly abysmal!!! Retained loss 10 times their cash, and assets receivable of less than 30m and a net loss of almost 300m last year......I think you're on to something, it's quite possible that they'll be gone soon. I don't think the students at the university are typical....eventually they'll find out what other people are (or really, aren't) paying and quit.

Also seems like the Major group their second largest shareholder has been trying to get out at these levels. Maybe the reason they are selling so many lifetime memberships is to get the cash in now knowing that these memberships will be worthless if they go bust.

Edited August 22, 2010 by wordchild

[ozzieovaseas]

Im by no means a business expert but id think the plant and equipment in these places must cost an absolute fortune to set up, especially if some of the stuff is imported..then theres the ongoing rent/lease payments.

Would be a brave thing to pull the pin on that much already invested, no doubt even if they are only just keeping the wolves from the door, they would have no choice but to hang on as long as possible.

If they do get the final axe and are forced into recievership,what happens then?

If there are ever new owners then surely they would have to honour the existing clients contracts? ..I guess this in itself would make it a hard to task to sell the businesses off in any case, considering lifetime memberships will definately limit any future income?

I wonder what would happen to all the equipment if worst came to worst?

[ACMIKE]

The sales girl was smarter than you think, she got your credit card and you weren't intending to purchase anything. Why would anyone hand over a credit card in this situation? If they have a special promotion for a certain type of credit card ask them which crdit card has the promotion. I have found in Asia most of the time it has to be a loclally issued card to get the promotion. They don' need our credit card to determine anythng, you were held hostage and lost any negotiating opportunity and the ability to just get up and walk out

ACM

Edited August 22, 2010 by ACMIKE

[whybother]

It was her twisted sarcasm, but she is probably getting a bollocking from upstairs if someone walks out with out signing on the dotted line, its those we'll never see that are the biggest cun_ts, she was just vile.

But why have a free 7 day trial if youre not really offering it ... if you read their website and read comments at recent AGM's youll see theyre in the sh7t and will sooner or later be going out of business, showing this business model doesnt work..

You reap what you sew.

I had a similar experience as the OP with California Wow. I had won a months free membership "worth 18,000 baht", so went in to see what it was all about.

I was met by the polite sales person, and then later the hard sell sales person - that must be the SOP.

What confused me most is when they did the "sell" for the 12 month contract, saying it would cost about 2,000 baht per month. I tried to work out how a months free membership could be valued at 18,000 baht ... and they couldn't explain it either .

[Tonto21]

Some time ago, about two years my wife and I were looking to join a gym in Chiangmai, we aimed to tour around a few and then decide. I have to say they all tried this patented bull shit, aggressive, hard sales pitch, so we gave up on the gym idea and stuck to biking and other activities instead. Now, I’m not trying to be rude, but I have always, rightly or wrongly associated this type of sale with 1970’s America, blunt snappy one liner’s, with pre scripted waffle and loaded questions all designed to get your answer to be “Yes” I see It is a form of brain washing, or even grooming! Like all things coming out of the states, (not all bad by any means) it got taken up by the rest of the world in the 70’s. Luckily for us most sale teams now see this sales technique as counterproductive for today’s more savvy punter, Ha ha! Not Thailand. How could they screw this up?

Thailand sales doctrine is a mess, in general Thai sale staff has little idea about what makes any potential customer tick; it feels that they don’t really want too.

Sales, I think in the main around the world…(Not Thailand) have moved away from this hard sale crap, and moved into “selling the dream” for example; instead of, “so why you come in here, fat boy” attitude to the; “putting aside the heath benefit, you’ll very soon start to look younger, fitter and more be attractive……..Picture yourself in 6 months on the beach or by the pool up to your knees in ponanee” Ha ha!………………….Or some other such old pony! Come on you Thai sales staff, get a grip, sell me the dream!