Born Gay

[Totster]

Actually had to sell a bull the other week as we reconed it was gay, absalutley no intrest in the feamle cows (some of them are quite pretty as well).

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Priceless... !

totster

[meom]

Why is this important.. "gayness is born, not made."

Surely if you are gay, then you are gay.. if you're not, then you're not... doesn't matter why ..

Because there are people out there that would like to 'fix/cure' us if at all possible and it's best not to give them any encouragement.

If it could be fixed/cured wouldn't it be better to make everybody bi-sexual?

[ProThaiExpat]

How come some of your cows are not gay - answer that smarty pants.

If its genetic then it should not be species-specific.

(O and don't say, 'Natural Selection has bred out all the queer cows, who don't reproduce' ...because if that was accurate, then there would be no human benders too. Aha, gotcha , wise guy.

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There are over eightly species in nature that have homosexual members. The latest persuasive research suggests it is not genetic, but a function of development in the womb.

[Ijustwannateach]

For instance I have 3 staff working on the farm, they are all "gay" Tom and Boo are lesbians, tom is the butch one dresses like a man, acts like a man ect. She is also my mother-in-laws youngest sister, the MIL recons even as a child she was never that "girly" always a bit of a tom.

How come some of your cows are not gay - answer that smarty pants.

If its genetic then it should not be species-specific.

(O and don't say, 'Natural Selection has bred out all the queer cows, who don't reproduce' ...because if that was accurate, then there would be no human benders too. Aha, gotcha , wise guy.

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Actually, homosexual behavior has been observed in hundreds of species of animals, and there's a new book just recently out as a layman's survey of the research data (if anyone's genuinely interested, pm me and I'll get the Amazon link for you). Bonobo chimps, our genetically closest living animal relatives, are wildly promiscuous in ALL forms of sexuality.

As a random side tidbit, a classic nickname among the "horsey set" for a gay horse is "reluctant breeder."

"Steven"

[Boo]

Why do people feel the need to research homosexuality? It is what it is, some people will be gay some wont , whats the f*cking problem, wouldn't the money spent on all this research into the whys & wherefores be better spent on cancer cures? As obviously no gay person is gonna read this research & go "oh thats why I like boys (or girls for the ladies ), now i can be straight" it's such a waste of time & money, no one researches why non gays aren't gay, do they?

[Totster]

no one researches why non gays aren't gay, do they?

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I'll bet someone has...

totster

[karen]

I say gayness is born and not made. Gayness to me means happiness, so hapiness is born and not made or forced into people. If you ask me about people being born gay, i must say... we cant choose these thing, its a gift, we jus have to accept it. my best friend is gay and i wouldnt luv him as much today if he were straight!!

Karen

A new book says gayness is born, not made.

See the review at:

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,7-1689843,00.html

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[meom]

Why do people feel the need to research homosexuality? It is what it is, some people will be gay some wont , whats the f*cking problem, wouldn't the money spent on all this research into the whys & wherefores be better spent on cancer cures? As obviously no gay person is gonna read this research & go "oh thats why I like boys (or girls for the ladies ), now i can be straight" it's such a waste of time & money, no one researches why non gays aren't gay, do they?

They are researching all sorts of things probably wishing science can come up one day with an engineered human being.

As a future parent you can then decide what kind of child you like to have; boy or girl, dark-skinned or light skinned, big body or small body, etc. etc.

Somewhere down the road in the questionaire you have to specify sexual preference so there you go.

Agree with you that for the time being money would be better spent on finding a cure for cancer.

[Krit]

Most gays would probably like to have proof that people are born gay, because the other option means you're somehow mentally "twisted". Well maybe it's just that I had such a wonderful childhood with loving parents and lots of Xmas presents, but I don't care. I believe that there are two causes: genetic disposition and social environment. Neither is hardly on/off, and even one is enough to make you gay, if strong enough.

Having said that, I don't believe in the gay/straight division either. Sexuality is a wide spectrum, and I think that, like other human preferences do, it too follows quite nicely the mathematical laws of distribution (remember the Gaussian curve and that stuff?). Of course the vast majority of people are heavily on the straight side, but some are at the other end of the curve and then those few in the middle.

In my mind nobody is absolutely, positively straight nor gay. It's just the surrounding society and our own way of thinking that usually makes us identify ourselves with the group that feels most right.

If you're, say, 70% straight and 30% gay, it's very likely that you consider yourself "completely" straight. (If on the other hand you're in fact mostly gay but there's still that 30% straight guy in you, you might want to try and play it straight anyway, because it's easier.)

What follows is that everyone will have some gay or straight feelings that are not consistent with their nice b/w sexual identification. These feelings are often self-depressed so that one doesn't even notice or admit to them, but sadly, such feelings of sexual insecurity are also an underlying cause of disgust and hatred towards others' sexual preferences or behaviour (both for those that consider themselves "gay" or "straight").

(OK, so I forgot the kathoey preference, but perhaps someone can fill me in.)

[Ijustwannateach]

Boo,

For many reasons sexuality is inherently political. Power, money, and status are tied up in laws which are made regarding sexual orientation and behavior. For this reason, many groups (fundies, homophobes, idiots) have motivation to prove that homosexuality is somehow "unnatural." As a self-defense, and to achieve political equality, other groups (the gays) have an equal motivation to demonstrate that sexuality is not so clear-cut. Unfortunately, in my view, many gays have politicized the definition of "gay" to mean one standard way of living (which in many ways it is not, especially outside the west) for political purposes (in politics, it's best to keep things simple for the yahoos) rather than celebrating the plurality of ways of living which Krit is talking about.

One of the best ways of demonstrating that homosexuality is not so "strange" is to dispel the myth which The Moog propagated above- i.e., that animals don't do it. This is just dead wrong.

I tend to think that sexuality will be one of those things which results from both genes and environment, like physical height- your height is influenced both by your genes and your nutrition and exercise, but doesn't really change past a certain point in your life. That will stymie the morons who are looking for a way to "screen" out homosexuality, and yet will also give biological backing to those who need it to continue the battle for our political legitimacy.

And before anyone questions the need for that political legitimacy- gays have routinely been the victims of violence, sometimes mass violence, in all forms of political regime in the 20th century. Some "progress."

"Steve"

[ProThaiExpat]

Bravo IJWT.

The latest "mastermind" of that violence toward gays is the Pope, a terrorist by any definition.

Any wonder hate crimes against gays are on the upswing. The Pope's forthcoming pronouncements will give license to his church's members to further marginalize gays, are ecunemical.

[RamdomChances]

Bravo IJWT.

The latest "mastermind" of that violence toward gays is the Pope, a terrorist by any definition.

Any wonder hate crimes against gays are on the upswing.  The Pope's forthcoming pronouncements will give license to his church's members to further marginalize gays, are ecunemical.

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How's the pope "masterminding" voilanct towards gay's then? Not having a pop just dont know>

[ProThaiExpat]

RandomChances: Masses of people turn to religion for moral guidance. If their church advocates marginilizaton of any identifiable group, this ipso facto grants permission for fundamental believers to act out the condemnation sactioned by the church heirarchy.

When the Pope says that gays are so bad that they will be denied priesthood, that their being is "evil" and all the other negatives this Pope has uttered against gays in the short time since he has been in office, he is clearly a bigot, but because he wears the robes of a religion, many don't call such utterances as bigotry, but as his "beliefs".

As anti-gay bigotry increases, so does the crimes against gays increase.

Look for increased gay hate crimes in the next year for sure. They are up already this year.

When an Imman of a muslim mosque, particularly the Whabbists, says" death to all infidels", a non-muslim is being marginalized and permission is given directly for violence against non-muslims.

A "cafeteria catholic" poses no danger as they ignore what the current Pope has to say about morals and go ahead and believe what their rational minds tell them to. Its the ignorant, poverty stricken and oppressed who blindly follow their priests dictates. A Catholic church goer who is read the Popes latest pronouncement in church on Sunday, is unlikely to accept modern moral imperitives when they oppose the 2000 year old dogma coming from Rome and spoon fed to them weekly from the pulpit.

Likewise, the immature, jobless, disaffected teenager listening to his Imman at the Mosque in England or Thailand and being told the non-muslim world is acting to destroy Islam and using words like "Crusades" a 2000 year old concept again, as a source for this bigotry and hate, then we see violence perpetrated against innocent people.

In a CNN interview with English citizens of Pakistani heritage in Leeds, they were all fairly young, they heatedly explained in a defensive manner and justified the bombings in London because of the deaths of muslims in Bagdad.

The inaction of the leaders of the Muslim community to root out extremist or fundamental Immans speaks volumes that there is a feeling that violence is justified against non-muslims due to a collective "victim" mind set among the Muslim mindset.

While it appears in the last two or three days that the U.K. government might start to make illegal the direct or inferential advocacy of violence by anyone, including church leaders, how does the Pope differ from George Bush and his "axis of evil" agenda when the Pope calls gays "inherently evil" and thereby gives permission to those so inclined to "root them out".

[The_Moog]

A generation ago, the average dairy cow yielded 8 quarts of milk a day. Today a typical cow yields 50 quarts per day.

A generation ago, they ate grass, today its bone meal and blood meal.

[RamdomChances]

Masses of people turn to religion for moral guidance. If their church advocates marginilizaton of any identifiable group, this ipso facto grants permission for fundamental believers to act out the condemnation sactioned by the church heirarchy.

When the Pope says that gays are so bad that they will be denied priesthood, that their being is "evil" and all the other negatives this Pope has uttered against gays in the short time since he has been in office, he is clearly a bigot, but because he wears the robes of a religion, many don't call such utterances as bigotry, but as his "beliefs".

I dont really see this as being a "The latest "mastermind" of that violence toward gays is the Pope, a terrorist by any definition." They dont like women to be priests either, Can you be a gay Iman or Rabi?

When an Imman of a muslim mosque, particularly the Whabbists, says" death to all infidels", a non-muslim is being marginalized and permission is given directly for violence against non-muslims.

Yes I agree as he's calling for "death to all infidels" has the pope called for "death to all gays" ?

I dont really know why I'm defending the pope here as I'm an atheist, mabye because I think its unjustified singling him out, yes he's no friend to gay people, but I dont think he's actually giving anyone a mandate for "violance agains gays" I see you points just think they are a little overboard.

A generation ago, the average dairy cow yielded 8 quarts of milk a day

How much is a quart, we sell by KG 1 kg about 1 ltr

[sonong1]

"Steven" well put, or should that be "nice putt" personally having now aged/matured I agree with "daveb1" although a few years back many an hour was spent at the geophysical observatory in Moresby debating the topic with other expats all well lubricated by SP of course. Strange as it may seem "never a definative answer was derived upon".

[Guest endure]

Why is this important.. "gayness is born, not made."

Surely if you are gay, then you are gay.. if you're not, then you're not... doesn't matter why ..

Because there are people out there that would like to 'fix/cure' us if at all possible and it's best not to give them any encouragement.

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I dont really follow? Is it better (from a gay perspective) to be "born" gay or "become" gay? Do the fix/cure brigade think it would be easier to "cure" if born or made?

I'm with toaster doesn't really matter. Are you born prefering beef to chicken or do you just become that way. I'm a lamb man myself

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I was replying to the 'if you're gay, you're gay' comment rather than the 'born or made' comment. The fix brigade (usually but not always fundamentalist Christians) don't care either. They jusy want to 'fix' us.

For the record I realised I was gay when I was 12 - at that time I'd had an 'ordinary' life with a mother and father, younger brother - none of the nurture arguments really applied to me. I feel as though I was born gay.

[The_Moog]

1) Cows milk can contain 50 types of antibiotics, because cattle get so many jabs etc.

If one was to drink unpasteurized cows milk, would it be dangerous? If the cattle were organic perhaps it would be okay. If so, where could such fresh milk be bought from.

2) If there was a pill that could be taken to stop you being gay, perhaps acting at DNA genetic level, or just a behavioural modifier, (two very different types of pills), would correspondents take either?

[Guest endure]

2) If there was a pill that could be taken to stop you being gay, perhaps acting at DNA genetic level, or just a behavioural modifier, (two very different types of pills), would correspondents take either?

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How would a "behavioural modifier" stop me being gay? Being gay isn't a form of behaviour, it's a state of mind. It's not what I do, it's what I am.

[The_Moog]

My "Behavioural Modifier" would be something along the same pharmaceutical lines as the one that people who want to stop drinking alcohol use.....

...when you have it in your mouth it makes you throw up ......BLOOOAWCH!

Obviously it still has to be invented.

[Guest endure]

My "Behavioural Modifier" would be something along the same pharmaceutical lines as the one that people who want to stop drinking alcohol use.....

...when you have it in your mouth it makes you throw up ......BLOOOAWCH!

Obviously it still has to be invented.

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Are you being serious or is this just a troll? What trigger would this tablet respond to? Are you going to invent one that makes black people vomit every time they realise they're black?

[RamdomChances]

My "Behavioural Modifier" would be something along the same pharmaceutical lines as the one that people who want to stop drinking alcohol use.....

...when you have it in your mouth it makes you throw up ......BLOOOAWCH!

Obviously it still has to be invented.

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Are you being serious or is this just a troll? What trigger would this tablet respond to? Are you going to invent one that makes black people vomit every time they realise they're black?

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He's just trolling.......he does that.

Usually quite funny, but he does have his off days

[Guest endure]

My "Behavioural Modifier" would be something along the same pharmaceutical lines as the one that people who want to stop drinking alcohol use.....

...when you have it in your mouth it makes you throw up ......BLOOOAWCH!

Obviously it still has to be invented.

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Are you being serious or is this just a troll? What trigger would this tablet respond to? Are you going to invent one that makes black people vomit every time they realise they're black?

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He's just trolling.......he does that.

Usually quite funny, but he does have his off days

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And today is obviously one of them

[slapdashkitty]

I y'am what I y'am...

I'm Popeye the sailor man...

Toot toot...

Sorry wrong ditty, but honestly who cares?

Now stop arguing girls and get back to work!

Sorry that's the Cruella De Villle in me...

[Ijustwannateach]

Hey, Moog- headache today? Not enough coffee?

So Moog- your own question back at you- if YOU could be cured of your counterproductive desire for women by a pill, would you take it? (Think of all the money you'd save without wife, kids, etc.) Do you have any reason to suspect our answer as gays should be any different?

"Steven"

[The_Moog]

Isn't the Contraceptive Pill precisely that?

Well, not precisely, but it achieves the same net effect.

If gayity is genetic though, then one day, science will decode a way of reversing it - like genetically modified crops. Would gay people go for such a sugar-coated pellet? I think probably not.

[Ijustwannateach]

And science will choose somehow to "cure" homosexuality but not heterosexuality because...

???

"Steven"

[The_Moog]

The only reason Science even investigates homosexuality is because of gay people going on about it and the resulting self-examination.

'Why are we like this?'

'Nature or Nurture?

'Lets have a Forum to discuss it ad infinitum!'

So some shrewd medic who needs to make a living - and isn't getting any Aids research dollars, gets the financial funding to research it and that keeps his team afloat for 5 years !

[Ijustwannateach]

I notice you didn't answer my question.

[The_Moog]

And science will choose somehow to "cure" homosexuality but not heterosexuality because..

There is no money in it. 'Big Pharma' is all about profit nowadays.

If one could give something to kids on a cube of sugar that would inhibit homosexuality, people might pay a dollar a dose.

Not ethically right though is it.