Excise Folks Hit Surin

[CMX]

Thaicbr,

Thanks for the explanation. I had not been aware that the bikes involved were mostly "parts" bikes?

Anyway, if I understand now, 11 months ago, you advised:

"I think the tax is the difference between what was paid as a parts import and a real import. Its kinda of a tax amnesty.

This is just the idea i get from reading different peoples posts on this and other forums. I think it has to be paid before you can get a legal green book. My advice is use an agent or if you or your partner can speak Thai. go down to the customs and transport offices and inquire. " (underlining mine)

So those who read this advice (and that of the other biking forums) went off and inquired, they paid the differences, and yet they are still having these problems?

It's far worse than I thought. My only excuse might be that the complexity was not explained in earlier posts. But anyway, it is these bikes that are being seized, those that paid the taxes due?

Thanks for your clarifications,

[powderpuff]

Considering that 99% of Thai's riding big bikes has ZERO lisence plates this is rich.

F the Falang huh?

Tell me something I don't know.

I thought Surin was famous for elephants?

Many many expats riding liter bikes huh?

zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

[LivinLOS]

Missed the mark. But what we really are exchanging views about is feeling upset because the police are enforcing laws that many felt had been lost in time and space forever. We take their sudden (and extreme steps, another issue) enforcement as if they'd passed a law "ex post facto" - I think that's what I mean.

While the law may have been on the books, or actually tax may have already existed.. If no one enforces it, mentions it, even is aware of said rules existance then the new implementation, of an old tax, that was the importers responsibility, IS 'new'...

But in fact, most buyers of xpensive bikes discussed these details - green books, plates, and so forth, the gray market - over beers, if the purchase was considered before various forums. There was v. slight chance of a problem down the road and they bought the bike and fixed it up and polished up its appearance and made it family.

Let me emphasize again, I am not defending grey books or skirting the law at all.. But lets apply the law equally, and levy the fine and tax on the person who is responsible, not just round up a bunch of farang scapegoats.

Secondly, yes, expats get together, discuss books, and try thier level best to navigate this stupid maze of poorly designed and spottily enforced laws, so that they dont get made a scapegoat of and fined for 'nothing'.. Yet the excise issue, was not on anyones radar a couple of years ago, you could go to the DMV, ask 'is this bike legal and no problem' get a 100% affirmative answer from the highest authority there, and still get a 50k fine later !! How is that fair ?? Ehen every effort to assure legality was attempted.

But given the large number of discussions on this forum that specifically lay out different situations, I have to think that somebody had a clue. It was the shock of unexpected enforcement of what had traditionally been let go that was annoying.

When this first happened (couple of years now) no one had a clue.. Plus customs refused to explain it, they refused to describe it, obfuscated all the details so as to keep people in the dark, because ignorance of the rules made people easier to exploit. It took people sicking thier neck out, making a royal pain in the arse of themselves (which has its risks), comparing notes online, getting local newspapers involved, getting lawyers involved, to even work out what this was over.

Compound that with heavy handed enforcement or green books not correctly credited with back payments, and of course we're upset. But righteous? Not.

Well lets agree to disagree.. Remember this is not the 'now', this was the 'then'.. Remember also excise tax is due at import and first registration. They missed it then, but want it from later owners now. Fair ??

[katabeachbum]

Most countries have a simple system not allowing first registration before ALL previous taxes are approved. Her in LOS, bikes have been registered and taxes checked. Then bike sold on, Then bike sold on. Then impounded by customs cause taxes not payed before first registration, and LAST owner has to pay. They are unable or unwilling to track down the person or authority cheating the system, and make present owner pay.

Its a process to clean up previous corruption or cheating, but in most countries they would go after the guilty guys

[CMX]

Quite sincere thanks to all for the education. And patience.

For one thing, I now collect that the taxing events (excising doesn't fit, except where they seized the bikes) were aimed, mostly, at Westerners, because we, as a percent, want the respective Big Bikes more than do Thais. I did read that a few Thais, in shops, were included.

Also, I gather that the imminent "reality" of this enforcement activity was NOT known or not believed or hoped against (forlorn hope, as it turned out) by everyday riders. I gather, however, that there was some very clear information available almost a year ago, before these abrupt and sometimes inane (as reported, anyway) deviations from proper enforcement actions.

Also (and above all), justice would have been served if those who at the point of the first registration indeed had been tracked down and made to pay. There is in fact, in my mind (finally!) the question as to whether in a western nation any payment could be demanded, once a bike had been admitted (in error, or as a fiddle) to the system for book and plates.

I suppose it was simply the memory of conversations I'd had before buying, involving riders hereabouts, about how the system worked - and didn't. This just since last October, but in the provinces. Also, there were some pretty blunt admissions on ThVi. Gaps and "bargains" were enthusiastically discussed. That is, fundamental ways of keeping low the purchase price of "big" second-hand bikes were common knowledge (common is right) and they added up, I thought then, to evasion of something essential or another. - I even thought that there was something missing in the parts-to-bike game. It all put me off, somehow, even though I had not then read the alert by Thaicbr that he posted over ten months ago.

Still, it was all pretty vague and suspicious to one new to this country. I've lived in places that are foreign to me and step very carefully. Well, my horse does, I'm trying to keep out of the s__*.

[biker Bob]

Is this likely to affect the 70-80% of Thai-owned small bikes and scooters in Surin which doubtless have no book?

they don't seem to be concerned in small bikes...and if it is an old bike they are not concerned, it seems to be 400cc and up and newer than 99 at least this is what the shop owner here told me...he refused to let them in his shop 3 times, they got a court document and came back with the police

I hope Mr Moo gets out of this farce OK, as he is one of the Good Guys (in Surin)

Dave is that the guy who had a shopin Krasang?

[Dave the Dude]

Dave is that the guy who had a shopin Krasang?

Could be, I am not sure.

I know he was working around the Rayong area and a few people helped him move back to these parts.

Maybe Wildoats will be able to confirm it,because he knows him a lot better than me.

[wildoates]

Is this likely to affect the 70-80% of Thai-owned small bikes and scooters in Surin which doubtless have no book?

they don't seem to be concerned in small bikes...and if it is an old bike they are not concerned, it seems to be 400cc and up and newer than 99 at least this is what the shop owner here told me...he refused to let them in his shop 3 times, they got a court document and came back with the police

I hope Mr Moo gets out of this farce OK, as he is one of the Good Guys (in Surin)

Dave is that the guy who had a shopin Krasang?

Yes that is him, he is back now in Surin.....busy all the time......

[CMX]

":Copied from Motorcycle News - From new bike to second hand, further reasons to do due diligence before buying a bike =

******************************************

Richard (offline) on Tuesday, 07 September 2010 @ 12:00 PM ICT (Read 99 times)

Richard >Richard "A warning to people who think that they are able to buy a super cool new big bike for what looks like an amazing price. But remember the good old saying 'if it's to good to be true, it's probably not true;'

"The same go's for buy a NEW big motorcycle in Thailand, the import tax on a big motorcycle (over 250cc) is 188% so it's impossible that people offer motorcycles for prices what they cost in the USA, Europe or Japan with import tax paid...

"THIS IS PURE SCAM, you will loose you money faster than you can think...

"And not forget, not all motorcycle websites in Thailand will remove scam postings, so you can find classified ads with somebody offering a Ducati 1198 for 719,000 Baht (half the price of what it will cost in Thailand)"

Easy to see why second hand bikes above the Wave, or recently the 250/CBR class, need to be checked out thoroughly, with nothing taken as given.

Edited September 7, 2010 by CMX

[thaicbr]

But Cmx. You also realise how difficult the bike market is here in Thailand. Because even your Brand new Tiger initially had a problem registering (all sorted now) but food for thought.

I know you are trying to be helpful but sometimes you come across a little to preachy. Are you by chance a retired Methodist preacher?

[Sojourner]

Keep in mind that there's a new set of players in town. Kawasaki, Yamaha, Harley, KTM and soon to be Honda. Triumph, BMW and Ducati are also players. I may have left out a few more, but the point I'm making is that these importer/dealers are here to make money. The existance of gray market bikes cuts into their sales potential. By making it more difficult to buy or transfer an older bike, or one that came in parts, the potential buyer may lean towards a new bike from the stealers listed above. I'm sure this subject has been brought up when bike importers have had their meetings with the Ministry of Commerce.

Edited September 8, 2010 by Sojourner

[katabeachbum]

Keep in mind that there's a new set of players in town. Kawasaki, Yamaha, Harley, KTM and soon to be Honda. Triumph, BMW and Ducati are also players. I may have left out a few more, but the point I'm making is that these importer/dealers are here to make money. The existance of gray market bikes cuts into their sales potential. By making it more difficult to buy or transfer an older bike, or one that came in parts, the potential buyer may lean towards a new bike from the stealers listed above. I'm sure this subject has been brought up when bike importers have had their meetings with the Ministry of Commerce.

It s no secret one of them payed customs to focus on existing bikes in LOS when they started official legal import