Why Do Thai Wives Learn English

[jrincon17]

Old dogs, new tricks.

My wife learnt English at uni in her late teens - early twenties. I've managed to learn a few phrases but I doubt that my Thai will ever come close to her English. Mai Pen Rai...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

One entry found for learnt.

Main Entry: learnt

Pronunciation: 'l&rnt

chiefly British past and past participle of LEARN

and you say brits speak proper english its brit english.

[buadhai]

Stupid.

I've never felt so stupid as I do with my failed attempts to learn Thai.

Nine, white, rice, old? Which is it? I never can figure out the difference.

Kaprao, kapao, krapao; which one is which?

Gor Gai. Gor Gai with a bow tie. Gor Gai with wings. Gor Gai with a crop facing left. Gor Gai with a crop facing right. Gor Gai with a crop, tail and pussy (Ya Ying). Why is Mr. Chicken in so many characters in so many disguises?

Can I ever get all this straightened out in my mind?

No. I'm too old. Too dumb. And, well, yes, too lazy.

Sorry. I really am. Maybe this goes in the "apology" thread.

[withnail]

I would agree as we all know that Americans and Aussies can't talk proper English like what we brits do.   

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Oh Yeah like you Brits do , you cant even understand you guys because your accent is so harsh just sounds like you are mumbling. Geez some of you brits get to me . Not all but some .

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

You obviously also don't understand our sense of humour. Read what Dave said and you'll notice he said "Like what we do" It's called sarcasm, he was suggesting that actually our English is not perfect at all, possibly worse.

Lighten up no one is trying to start an argument (including me)

[Curt]

But it seems something else is required to make people actually want to listen to what you have to say.

Ever notice how those with the least to say, often say it the loudest, over and over?

Volume is always a good substitute for content.

I think the tones have a lot to do with our plight.

[Neeranam]

QUOTE(johnh101 @ 2005-07-13 13:20:03)

QUOTE(Jack Jones @ 2005-07-13 17:07:36)

QUOTE

Farang roo mak....mai dee!!!

That's a stereotypical bar girl response to a farang who can speak Thai, in other words they can't pull the wool over your eyes. If you speak Thai with a 'normal' Thai they are more than impressed that you've taken the time to learn the language.

My wife would disagree with you on that one. She has told me that many Thai's do not like Falangs who know too much about anything, not just the language. You could be talking about car mechanics, farming, breeding dogs, anything really and when you display a superior knowledge to them they back off and do not want to know any more.

Interesting - I have to admit I have seen this reaction as well.

When leaving the initial pleasantries and 20 questions reg. my relation to Thailand behind and instead getting into a discussion about facts and knowledge, many Thais are put off when I want to share what knowledge I have, even though I make an effort trying to not directly criticize their opinions or come off as a wise-arse.

I have had a fair amount of exposure to IT-related issues, medicine, history and social sciences.

Knowledge seems to be a sensitive spot for a number of Thai people, more so than I am used to from other countries.

Any Thais in the forum who have any ideas about the reasons for this reaction?

I always try to not be too 'serious' or act superior, avoid making big gestures and also try to not speak too loudly. But it seems something else is required to make people actually want to listen to what you have to say.

Anybody with suggestions for what I may be doing wrong and how I can improve communication?

--------------------

I have seen this reaction so many times too.

One area seems to be religion, especially when I start going on about having been to the Buddhist sacred spots in India, and most Thais don't know the name of the towns.

Another one I noticed even today at the hospital, doctors hate speaking Thai to me, in fact they usually refuse. Even when my wife is there, the doc speaks to her in Thai and then she passes it on to me in Thai, the doc still uses the 3rd person to "translate".

So many times someone will come up and say , pood passaa Thai reu plao? kind of laughing. When I say yes, they back right off, as they can't continue their ridicule. I guess this is because of the many farang they have met who can't say a word. They don't respect us in the slightest, especially if we make no effort to learn the language and culture.

Laziness, for sure. How many people spend lots of time on this forum without visiting the Thai language section, which is a great resource for learning?

I learned because I was desparate to know what others were saying about me, took me a few years before I had the motivation, and yes it was annoying to get laughed at my initial attempts. Perseverance is the answer, one day it will finally come and you will be happy that you made the effort.

Meadish you have a great understanding of the Thai language, a lot better than mine. If they try to speak English to you, but find that Thai works best, maybe you could say a bit about how hard English is. Also wait until you are asked. You must know that we are a novelty here. If the Thai wants to learn about anything other than English, they rather go to a Thai.

Buddhism, for sure, they don't want anyone from a non buddhist country telling them things they don't know.

Of course there are a few exceptions.

As for country girls or bar girls learning English, well they have the motivation.

If I were young and single and attractive and stuck in my country, and was told if I learn Mongolian/Chinese or whatever, I would have a good chance of some woman giving me a monthly allowance of 3 times my salary in my home country, plus a nice house in my country, plus in a few years I could get all her money when she dies(more money than my family had ever dreamed of, more money than even if they won the National lottery) plus being able to travel places I could only dream of, well I think I would spend a lot of time learning that language, especially if I were in a rut, and hated the woman from my own country etc etc.

One of my motivations was to be able to meet country girls who didn't work in the bars. Be able to travel by myself all over the country without feeling like dis-respectful tourist..

Farang roo mak....mai dee!!!

This is definately true! It is a power/contol thing.

[mpdkorat]

I would agree as we all know that Americans and Aussies can't talk proper English like what we brits do.   

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Oh Yeah like you Brits do , you cant even understand you guys because your accent is so harsh just sounds like you are mumbling. Geez some of you brits get to me . Not all but some .

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

You obviously also don't understand our sense of humour. Read what Dave said and you'll notice he said "Like what we do" It's called sarcasm, he was suggesting that actually our English is not perfect at all, possibly worse.

Lighten up no one is trying to start an argument (including me)

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

He may be an American they have a few problems with deep humor, they also have great problems spelling innuendo.

[RamdomChances]

I've never came across the "Farang roo mak....mai dee!!!" that much usually in bars.

I think some of it may come from the fact that Thais generaly know their place, that is they are taught to listen to and respect "authority" figures (docters,teachers, gov officials ect) so these "authority figures" can sometimes come across as a bit arrogant because basicly the dont often get people telling them their opinions and dont offer their opinions tho people that are percived to be higher then them. They often have a problem with us falangs as we are difficult to place in the social scale.

Saying that I usually disagree with everything our provincial vet has to say and have even offered to let him stay here for a week to actually see how a real farm is run as he needs to get out of his office more He still places trainee vets here on work experiance though so I recon he takes it well

Back on topic. I speak thai about as well as my wife speaks english, neither of us is brilliant but we get by, when we talk to each other it's usually a mixed up jumble of thai and english

[Greer]

I studied Thai for six months before I came to Thailand - although I must admit it was not because I knew I was destined to live in Bangkok, but simply out of interest.

I truly think that one of the major hiccups for any farang is the tonal nature of many Asian languages - you must develop an ear for the tone of a word - not easy, but if you hope to speak or understand Thai, you simply have to.

Another problem we face is the bewildering array of characters in Thai, and the use of combinations of characters, especially vowels, to make other sounds.

I am no linguist, so I cannot use the correct phonetic descriptives for words and sounds, but every day I hear farang tripping over the differences between Gor Gai and Kor Kai for example (note I believe I have actually written these the wrong way around for any linguist, but most of us mere mortals don't understand that a K is pronounced like a G etc).

There are very big differences between the words for "nine" and "rice" - the first consonant is different for a start - a G and a K sound again for example.

If you are learning Thai and are holding off on learning the character set (reading and writing it), think again - I found it made a HUGE difference when I tried to understand how a word was pronounced if I could actually read it myself, at least a little - and the basics are not as hard as you might imagine.

I find that most of the people I meet who are learning Thai are not as careful with their pronunciation as they need to be - it is very important to listen very carefully to the word, and emulate the teacher exactly.

I know that in many cases it is not laziness, but often a fear of the complexity of the undertaking which then leads to a fear of failure - and it's then a short step to "can't be bothered learning Thai" - but give it a go - and turn a deaf ear to those who say "Farang roo mahk, mai dee...!"

[TokyoT]

Lazy.

Other contributing factors –

It is easy to use English as a crutch – much easier for a farang to get by in Thailand w/English than it is for a Thai to get my in Farangland w/only Thai language skills. So if you are attempting to learn Thai there can be a tendency to fall back on English for communications.

Money, Money, Money - helps drive more Thai’s to learn English – but there is not such a big money motivator for farang to learn Thai – offer a farang a significant pay raise if they learn Thia and many will learn Thai – any offers?

For me one of the big hurdles for learning Thai (outside of the laziness factor) is tones. I am freakn’ tone deaf (you do not want to listen to me butcher a song during karaoke) which is quite a big problem when attempting to learn Thai. Dog, horse, mom??????

[Greer]

True - the tones are a big problem for many - of course context helps sometimes - it's unlikely you would be taking your mum to the vet for her distemper shot, and of course a dog would look fairly silly with a saddle....what exactly is a Soi Horse, and why is my secretary telling me that my good mate, Paul, is a dog already, when in fact he is usually a fairly reasonable chap??

Unfortunately it's not as easy as the above silliness would imply - agreed!

Edited July 13, 2005 by Greer

[mpdkorat]

QUOTE(johnh101 @ 2005-07-13 13:20:03)

QUOTE(Jack Jones @ 2005-07-13 17:07:36)

QUOTE

Farang roo mak....mai dee!!!

One of my motivations was to be able to meet country girls who didn't work in the bars. Be able to travel by myself all over the country without feeling like dis-respectful tourist..

Farang roo mak....mai dee!!!

This is definately true! It is a power/contol thing.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I have snipped most of the comments out of the previous posts although I generally agree with what they were both saying.

These are a few of the comments that have been made:

They learn English in School

My wife will not teach me Thai, she does not want me to understand.

They do not like ‘’Farang roo maak’’

Thai girls have more motivation

Lazy

Many farangs can already speak Thai

(A comment on the last point: In my experience a very small percentage of farangs living in Thailand can speak Thai other than just the very basics; we all know the words; chuck wow springs to mind. BTW ‘Chuck wow’ means fly a kite)

We English speakers really have been getting away with this not learning other languages for a long time, no point in mentioning any countries we all know them.

My wife speaks little or no English although she did spend three years in a lower level Thai university learning cooking (I’m sure there is a posh word for the course). I also believe she learned English in school. When I met her I was able to speak enough Thai for our conversations to be 99% Thai based, although I do get the occasional ‘’Where you go sexy man’’ This has been a great advantage for me as it has forced me to improve my Thai language skills, but she is now finding it a little frustrating as most farang wives can speak English to some degree. Perhaps I’m being a little selfish?

Like Neeranam I struggled at first to get the hang of the language, in fact I have a VERY long way to go (The rest of my life) In the main it has been a great advantage being able to talk to Thai people in their own language, although like some previous posts have stated some Thai’s don’t like it, but the vast majority of Thai’s do like the fact that we have made the effort and for those that do not Fck em.

The one disadvantage about speaking Thai is you have to translate for non Thai speaking farangs who are trying to pick up girls.

[billd766]

I have been coming to Thailand on and off and been living here for about 12 years and frankly my Thai is poor.

It is due to a combination of laziness and no spare time though I did go to the BIS school off Sukhumvit to try but 1 1/2 hours a week after a 9 hour working day was not the best way to learn.

My wife speaks fair English learned before I met her and she refuses to teach me Thai and suggests I go for lessons. We have a friend staying with us long term and she has offered to help but I am out of country working in Pakistan with 10 days off every 3 months which doesn't help.

Plus at 61 I find it hard to learn a new language which has 44 characters and 5 tones.

However when I get home again I will try.

People in the village tell me I can speak good Thai but I think that they are being polite though I do try now and again.

Edited July 13, 2005 by billd766

[Totster]

My wife could speak a small amount of English when I first met her... and since then her english has improved so much, and continues to do so... Obviously speaking to me in English everyday has helped her learn, but also through her own determination and keeness to learn..(obsession sometimes)..

Myself... I have been trying to learn Thai for a couple of years, I have been doing so very slowly and teaching myself using books, internet and any other means...

I would probably gain more experience speaking Thai on a regular basis with my wife, but she is insistant that we speak in English, like I said, it's an obsession for her sometimes.. To be fair though, she does help me to leearn, and does speak Thai with me, but of course, it's only a small percentage of the time... and really to be truthful we can only really communicate in english, especially when on the phone, so it makes sense to speak english ....

My only real problem is that although I started learning Thai a couple of years ago, I now find myself learning Lao, as when i am in Thailand we (wife and I) stay in Isaan, and in the village everyone speaks Lao... It gets pretty confusing sometimes..

totster

[Spee]

Back on topic. I speak thai about as well as my wife speaks english, neither of us is brilliant but we get by, when we talk to each other it's usually a mixed up jumble of thai and english

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RC .... you're way to modest about your language skills. What's up mate?

[BambinA]

My only real problem is that although I started learning Thai a couple of years ago, I now find myself learning Lao, as when i am in Thailand we (wife and I) stay in Isaan, and in the village everyone speaks Lao... It gets pretty confusing sometimes..

totster 

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sab ee leeh der?

Bambi (pood lao mai pen)

[Totster]

sab ee leeh der?

   

Bambi (pood lao mai pen)

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Saep ee lee bor ?

saep ee lee Derrrr

totster (pood lao mai pen dooay)

[BambinA]

sab ee leeh der?

   

Bambi (pood lao mai pen)

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Saep ee lee bor ?

saep ee lee Derrrr

totster (pood lao mai pen dooay)

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

for u

Pla rah mai sai ....tau yai mai sub!!

(thai anchovy , just dont pick it in somtam, but please if it's big just dont chop, i love it load!!)

Bambi( kin pla rah mai pen)..same same but different!!!

Edited July 13, 2005 by BambinA

[buadhai]

I truly think that one of the major hiccups for any farang is the tonal nature of many Asian languages - you must develop an ear for the tone of a word - not easy, but if you hope to speak or understand Thai, you simply have to.

I wish I could figure out how. I just don't hear the tones and, obviously, I can't reproduce them.

There are very big differences between the words for "nine" and "rice" - the first consonant is different for a start - a G and a K sound again for example.

On an intellectual level, I know this. I even studied enough linguistics at university to know how to technically describe the differences and I understand the physiology of producing the different sounds. But, try as I may, I cannot hear the differences or properly produce the different sounds myself.

I know that in many cases it is not laziness, but often a fear of the complexity of the undertaking which then leads to a fear of failure - and it's then a short step to "can't be bothered learning Thai"

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I'm afraid that's where I'm at. I have a pretty much 100% failure rate in having my Thai utterances understood. I finally just got tired of the confusion and embarrassment my attempts to speak caused and just gave up.

For example, one of the young women living with us is named "Bpoy" (she writes it "Poy"). Try as I may, I cannot say her name so that anyone, including her, can figure out what I'm trying to say. Yes, I know. The word begins with a voiced, nonaspirated, interlabial stop. I wish I produce make one that sounds right to Thai's.

[Neeranam]

On an intellectual level, I know this. I even studied enough linguistics at university to know how to technically describe the differences and I understand the physiology of producing the different sounds. But, try as I may, I cannot hear the differences or properly produce the different sounds myself.

I studied linguistic too, and believe me it doesn't help.

Exposure to the Thai language is what is needed. When feeling lazy, and you don't want to pick up a book, switch on the telly and try to hear one or two words. I was exposed to the telly for 3 years and thought that nnothing was going in my head, but I was wrong, somewhere, somehow, sub-consiously or whatever.

My wife also refuses to teach me Thai, maybe due to the fact that I am reading Pratom(Grade) 6 Thai and she only passed matyom 3(grade 9), and id embarrassed when she can't explain some things.

In my opinion, books are good if you really want to learn, but what is best is to hang about with Thai people. Go out of bangkok for a holiday and you'll be amazed what progress you make when there are NO Enlish speakers about.

[penelope]

Farang roo mak....mai dee!!!

That's a stereotypical bar girl response to a farang who can speak Thai, in other words they can't pull the wool over your eyes. If you speak Thai with a 'normal' Thai they are more than impressed that you've taken the time to learn the language.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

My wife would disagree with you on that one. She has told me that many Thai's do not like Falangs who know too much about anything, not just the language. You could be talking about car mechanics, farming, breeding dogs, anything really and when you display a superior knowledge to them they back off and do not want to know any more.

I have seen this once or twice but know it does not apply to most.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

AFAIC, they type of thais who have the "farang roo mak mai dee" attitiude are undesirable as aquaintences (unless you like a complete lack of genuity in your interpersonal relationships)..especially abroad, thai women who say and think this may as well walk around with a sign on their head saying "scamster" (and their "farang mai roo" partners the sign "sucker").

[jayenram]

When I first met the FG she could read and write some English but found it difficult to speak. I am sure it was shyness at first (frightened of getting it wrong). Some 3 years later she speaks very good English even to the extent of acting as an interpreter for farangs and their wives/girlfriends.

Regarding my Thai, I too have a major problem with pronunciation particularly the tones. The FG does generally try and put me right but I realise that sometimes she looses interest because she can tell what I am trying to say. I'll get there eventually.

[Pepe']

6 years ago when I got married in Samut Sakorn I wanted to learn to speak Thai.

My new sister in law told me not to waste my time and it was more important for my wife to learn english.

I am pretty good on Spanish, French and had three years of Latin. I am interested to learn Thai but no time really.

I find the "Green Back" is an excelent translator in LOS...

[thaibebop]

Are farangs stupid, lazy or both.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Maybe Austraylian is easy to learn than Thai...

Cheers BaanOz

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I would agree as we all know that Americans and Aussies can't talk proper English like what we brits do.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I'll believe that when you Brits stop putting 'r's on the ends of words that end with an 'a'. Those BBC new guys drive me nuts, Chinar and Americar.

[Boon Mee]

Are farangs stupid, lazy or both.

Maybe Austraylian is easy to learn than Thai...

Cheers BaanOz

I would agree as we all know that Americans and Aussies can't talk proper English like what we brits do.

I'll believe that when you Brits stop putting 'r's on the ends of words that end with an 'a'. Those BBC new guys drive me nuts, Chinar and Americar.

And how about 'Florider"...

[thaibebop]

sab ee leeh der?

   

Bambi (pood lao mai pen)

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Saep ee lee bor ?

saep ee lee Derrrr

totster (pood lao mai pen dooay)

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

for u

Pla rah mai sai ....tau yai mai sub!!

(thai anchovy , just dont pick it in somtam, but please if it's big just dont chop, i love it load!!)

Bambi( kin pla rah mai pen)..same same but different!!!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Yum, that looks good! What is it?

[thaibebop]

Are farangs stupid, lazy or both.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Maybe Austraylian is easy to learn than Thai...

Cheers BaanOz

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I would agree as we all know that Americans and Aussies can't talk proper English like what we brits do.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I'll believe that when you Brits stop putting 'r's on the ends of words that end with an 'a'. Those BBC new guys drive me nuts, Chinar and Americar.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

And how about 'Florider"...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Oh yeah and let us not forget 'Georgiar' thats a good one.

[Greer]

I truly think that one of the major hiccups for any farang is the tonal nature of many Asian languages - you must develop an ear for the tone of a word - not easy, but if you hope to speak or understand Thai, you simply have to.

I wish I could figure out how. I just don't hear the tones and, obviously, I can't reproduce them.

There are very big differences between the words for "nine" and "rice" - the first consonant is different for a start - a G and a K sound again for example.

On an intellectual level, I know this. I even studied enough linguistics at university to know how to technically describe the differences and I understand the physiology of producing the different sounds. But, try as I may, I cannot hear the differences or properly produce the different sounds myself.

I know that in many cases it is not laziness, but often a fear of the complexity of the undertaking which then leads to a fear of failure - and it's then a short step to "can't be bothered learning Thai"

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I'm afraid that's where I'm at. I have a pretty much 100% failure rate in having my Thai utterances understood. I finally just got tired of the confusion and embarrassment my attempts to speak caused and just gave up.

For example, one of the young women living with us is named "Bpoy" (she writes it "Poy"). Try as I may, I cannot say her name so that anyone, including her, can figure out what I'm trying to say. Yes, I know. The word begins with a voiced, nonaspirated, interlabial stop. I wish I produce make one that sounds right to Thai's.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I can understand the difficulty, and to be honest, although I and many others could explain it till we went blue in the face, some people do have real problems with the sounds and tones in the Thai language - and contrary to what may be thought at first, it's not through laziness - it's just blo*dy difficult for them.

You are lucky that you studied linguistics, as I would dearly love to be able to discuss the technical details of language in the terms professionals use, but never having studied that science, I can only offer very basic explanations when asked about different sounds - these are then usually related of course to sample words in English or other European languages with which the listener may be familiar.

I used to know a girl called Bpoy too (OK, yes that does sound odd to the uninitiated), and it took a while to be able to say her name properly.

Another difficult one is any word or name starting with "ng" such as the Thai word for snake "ngu" or the word for stupid "ngo".

Slightly off topic, but related, I am a bit annoyed that they didn't name the new airport after the area in which it was built, but I guess Nong Ngu Haow would be a problem - can you imagine: Bangkok's Cobra Swamp Airport would have been a classic name - and absolutely unique for international airports...might have put off the faint-hearted though I suppose...

[mr bilko]

Here is my 10 pence worth.

For ferrang i can only talk about my ideas of the british, not the other foriegn ferrangs.

Britain only really has 3 languages (dont mention the other ethnics) English, Scottish and Welsh.

I am Welsh, born bred, and lived here all my life but dont speak a word of it (much to my shame).

The English have such a precence in the UK that English is a forced language over here.

As the UK is an island with no foreign borders there is no need to speak any other language. In europe all countries border somewhere else so a second language is essential.

Added to the fact that English is the most widespread(not most spoken) language in the world. Also (i maybe wrong) english is taught as a language in every school in the world to some degree.

Finally if the thai's want my money the can bloody ask for it in english

[a2396]

It is my understanding that English instruction was only begun in Thai schools about 10 years ago, so if they are over 30 they have had no opportunity, unless they had the advantage of private and or advanced schooling. In my expederience, I have found that in gereral, if they are under 30, they can speak some English. If over 30, forget it, unless they have an upper class education or motivation to learn some other way. In the case of my "wife", I have been in Thailand for several months and here knowledge of English is no better than when I arriveed. She has little interest in learning and has little interest in teaching me Thai either.

[Boo]

My husband was taught English at (catholic) high school but it has only recently been indroduced to state primary schools. His 13 y/o neice has only started learning it but the 5 y/o has been exposed to it since starting school last year so she is much easier to teach when I am there & her pronounciation is much clearer than the 13y/olds. But they both have a willingess to learn & even the MIL at 65 is always asking what certain words are in English etc & she last spoke it at high school 50 odd years before