Mexican Standoff In Phuket Property Market

[ilyelol]

well you guys are quite blind.. this project has put billboards and pamphlets everywhere on the island for 1year now. Its mostly for their really small 1.2mil house but theres still a few of their big houses left for sale.

hel_l, i went there last week and they told me that some farang was dumped by his bargirl and he just left the country and left 1mil in downpayment.. so the house was 1mil cheaper than usual..

unfortunately a old thai bought it the same day for his 20 yo katoey

[stevenl]

hel_l, i went there last week and they told me that some farang was dumped by his bargirl and he just left the country and left 1mil in downpayment.. so the house was 1mil cheaper than usual..

And you believe they would sell it 1 mio cheaper in stead of pocketing the money?

[steelepulse]

I'll be keen to know where you can buy a decent 3 bed in Cape Panwa, PM me if you wish.

Me too. Chiang Mai and I can start a bidding war.

Me three. really, this is time to buy, not sell:)

Two years ago I was saying wait two years for the real fire sale, but little did I know the building and speculating would continue. OK, 2012 low season will be when I buy.

[chiang mai]

well you guys are quite blind.. this project has put billboards and pamphlets everywhere on the island for 1year now. Its mostly for their really small 1.2mil house but theres still a few of their big houses left for sale.

hel_l, i went there last week and they told me that some farang was dumped by his bargirl and he just left the country and left 1mil in downpayment.. so the house was 1mil cheaper than usual..

unfortunately a old thai bought it the same day for his 20 yo katoey

You said, "you can still get a huge 3br house with sea view in cape panwa for 4mil." and regrettably I don't believe such things exist, sorry.

[taninthai]

Boater on this side of the country some bargains are to be had at the moment if you look about. Take this place. 5 bedroomed mountain villa with stunning sea views big pool, gym and private cinema with seperate 2 bed staff quarters set on 2 Rai was 50 mill now 38 with a twin engined speedboat and Fortuna thrown in and staffed for the first year. I just wish I had an extra couple of Mill lying around

A lot of the owners here are just going to sit it out rather than reduce the price. OK for those who can afford to do it but some owners need to sell and have reduced the price a lot.

I think the last redshirt protest put a lot of investors off but there are some brave ones who can see that things will pick up her in Thailand again soon.

they may have reduced from 50 to 38 and no doubt its a nice place but how much you think it cost to build id say not even 10 mill this is where the problems are you would have to have a lot of cash and are really just buying to save the hassles off building your own place at a greatly reduced cost. i mean we are talking 1 million gbp here i dont think the average person has that much cash to out lay .bussiness buyers only maybe.

[LivinLOS]

they may have reduced from 50 to 38 and no doubt its a nice place but how much you think it cost to build id say not even 10 mill this is where the problems are you would have to have a lot of cash and are really just buying to save the hassles off building your own place at a greatly reduced cost. i mean we are talking 1 million gbp here i dont think the average person has that much cash to out lay .bussiness buyers only maybe.

While I agree with your general sentiment.. Thats lots of 'half price' homes are still above build cost.. If its the estate I think it is, your not building that for 10m.. In fact the land its on also (even if you deeply discount the froth out of the market) is prime prime land. While Thailand is cheap labor its not hard to spend well over 20k a sqm if your going high end.. Add in pools, landscaping, furnishings, etc and it adds up.

Will it get 30ish mil ?? I dunno, but at 20 something thats one king hel_l of a pad. Even for the low ballers.

[taninthai]

While I agree with your general sentiment.. Thats lots of 'half price' homes are still above build cost.. If its the estate I think it is, your not building that for 10m.. In fact the land its on also (even if you deeply discount the froth out of the market) is prime prime land. While Thailand is cheap labor its not hard to spend well over 20k a sqm if your going high end.. Add in pools, landscaping, furnishings, etc and it adds up.

Will it get 30ish mil ?? I dunno, but at 20 something thats one king hel_l of a pad. Even for the low ballers.

Anyway it cant be that nice and top end build as i understand even the dog has left and doesnt want to live there anymore... :cheesy:

[LivinLOS]

Ha just went and checked.. cant be the one I was thinking of, thats still listed at 115 mil !!!

[ilyelol]

well you guys are quite blind.. this project has put billboards and pamphlets everywhere on the island for 1year now. Its mostly for their really small 1.2mil house but theres still a few of their big houses left for sale.

hel_l, i went there last week and they told me that some farang was dumped by his bargirl and he just left the country and left 1mil in downpayment.. so the house was 1mil cheaper than usual..

unfortunately a old thai bought it the same day for his 20 yo katoey

You said, "you can still get a huge 3br house with sea view in cape panwa for 4mil." and regrettably I don't believe such things exist, sorry.

then why do you reply to my post? you want to show the world you're a crazy guy holding his hands on his ears and screaming LALALA?

edit: here mr i wanna be douchy on the internet

http://www.allsuite.co.th/index.php?lay=show&ac=article&Ntype=2

tell me that website is in the matrix and that we all live in russia where there is no cape panwa, this place is just a delusion right?

Edited September 2, 2010 by ilyelol

[chiang mai]

then why do you reply to my post? you want to show the world you're a crazy guy holding his hands on his ears and screaming LALALA?

edit: here mr i wanna be douchy on the internet

http://www.allsuite.co.th/index.php?lay=show&ac=article&Ntype=2

tell me that website is in the matrix and that we all live in russia where there is no cape panwa, this place is just a delusion right?

Because I wanted you to supply the link/further details (which I asked you for nicely earlier), which you eventually did (with some prodding) so thank you.

Now Mitch, about that bidding war

[Benjie]

well you guys are quite blind.. this project has put billboards and pamphlets everywhere on the island for 1year now. Its mostly for their really small 1.2mil house but theres still a few of their big houses left for sale.

hel_l, i went there last week and they told me that some farang was dumped by his bargirl and he just left the country and left 1mil in downpayment.. so the house was 1mil cheaper than usual..

unfortunately a old thai bought it the same day for his 20 yo katoey

Sounds like a delightful neighbourhood.

[evanson]

In the soi where i live the are reducing the rent on vacant property's to get tenants.

A few are for sale/rent , its not they do not care if they sell the property's, the fact

is the property's are over priced and they cannot sell them.

They think property's should increase in value at 20% a year like when it was a

sellers market, If they do not get realistic in there pricing the and cannot afford

to pay the mortgage the people who have lent the money will take the property

and sell it to get there money back, and probably sell it by auction where the

highest bid as long as it covers the outstanding dept will buy the property

I have a property I've had on the market for the past three years. Architect built (not something scratched on the back of a beer mat by some pissed up wanabe architect farang,), nor something pulled from one of those books Thai builders are apt to throw up. No pun intended.

During the worst of the 'Western' economic crisis, I'd been advised to reduce the price accordingly. Three years on and a 50% reduction, I'm still getting idiot time wasters looking for 'fire sales' (I'm not alone in this).

Given that property/land sale prices on the island are not only holding but rising, I think 'why in the hel_l am I putting up with this'. To keep the 'real' estate agents in gainful, albeit at a reduced commission, employment? And have pulled my property off the 'market', which, as far as I can see, is only for arrogant dickheads thinking they can get a 'deal' over the red shirt/Surayud fiasco, or those with more money than sense flying their private planes onto what was once a tropical paradise, but is fastly and furiously turning into Pattaya II.

[madmitch]

then why do you reply to my post? you want to show the world you're a crazy guy holding his hands on his ears and screaming LALALA?

edit: here mr i wanna be douchy on the internet

http://www.allsuite.co.th/index.php?lay=show&ac=article&Ntype=2

tell me that website is in the matrix and that we all live in russia where there is no cape panwa, this place is just a delusion right?

Because I wanted you to supply the link/further details (which I asked you for nicely earlier), which you eventually did (with some prodding) so thank you.

Now Mitch, about that bidding war

I picked up the brochure months ago and had intended going to look at some point. Still haven't got round to it. Thanks for the link Benjie.

[evanson]

well you guys are quite blind.. this project has put billboards and pamphlets everywhere on the island for 1year now. Its mostly for their really small 1.2mil house but theres still a few of their big houses left for sale.

hel_l, i went there last week and they told me that some farang was dumped by his bargirl and he just left the country and left 1mil in downpayment.. so the house was 1mil cheaper than usual..

unfortunately a old thai bought it the same day for his 20 yo katoey

You said, "you can still get a huge 3br house with sea view in cape panwa for 4mil." and regrettably I don't believe such things exist, sorry.

I absolutely don't believe this, and, no, I'm not sorry. More tv bs.

[Abrak]

I have a property I've had on the market for the past three years. Architect built (not something scratched on the back of a beer mat by some pissed up wanabe architect farang,), nor something pulled from one of those books Thai builders are apt to throw up. No pun intended.

During the worst of the 'Western' economic crisis, I'd been advised to reduce the price accordingly. Three years on and a 50% reduction, I'm still getting idiot time wasters looking for 'fire sales' (I'm not alone in this).

Given that property/land sale prices on the island are not only holding but rising, I think 'why in the hel_l am I putting up with this'. To keep the 'real' estate agents in gainful, albeit at a reduced commission, employment? And have pulled my property off the 'market', which, as far as I can see, is only for arrogant dickheads thinking they can get a 'deal' over the red shirt/Surayud fiasco, or those with more money than sense flying their private planes onto what was once a tropical paradise, but is fastly and furiously turning into Pattaya II.

Evanson,

I think your assumptions are a little out of whack.

I do not not think that prices are 'rising' I think this is what is the bullshit.

As an example I built a villa here - designed by the most famous architect in Phuket. I bought the land 1 rai right on the west coast ocean in October 1997. I built the villa over the next 18 months. Pretty good timing. I sold 10 years later at 80% profit but I had spent a lot on it imbetween. And my timing of purchase and build were very good considering the crisis. It took 2 years to sell and it was a beautiful 600 sqm villa 20m from the sea.

People have been misled by Bt150k/sqm condos that have been sold but are being resold at Bt75k/sqm 5 years later.

And please understand your house is worth exactly what you sell it for - no more, no less. You talk about 'fire sale' wasters but are you really a seller when it has taken you 3 years to sell? I simply do not believe prices have risen much over the last 7 years.

You have pulled your house off the market. So maybe you were a bullshit seller. Dont complain about the buyers and realize your house is worth exactly how much you decide to sell it at. All my neighbours in my old villa told me I sold it too cheap - which is fine as long as they understand why they havent sold their place.

[ilyelol]

you guys are talking about the high end market.. but high end market is mostly full of idiots who throw money away... one day you'Re bound to hit your 500% profit if you wait long enough

there's not enough talk about the hilarious ask price for these low-end houses: http://houseinphuket.com/houses/HFS/a0808/

theres about 500 of them for sale on thailand baan... mostly in thalang.. house that cost 2mil and are now 4-5mil with no decoration, just ugly ceramic and dirty pastel thai kitchens

I want to know who those sellers are.. where are they from, who raised them and how the hel_l did they even get 50baht in their pockets?

being delusional is kind of normal in the 6mil+market.. but in the 1-3mil it's really funny

this one is my LOL of the day

http://baanthailand.com/en/phuket/mueang+phuket/houses+and+villas/1001889

basically for 400 thousand baht more in the same project you get a brand new 2 storey twin house with more land... that house was built for about 1.8mil and its in front of a bunch of rabid dogs and a huge fighting rotweiller/boxer who barks all the time

this is the lol of the year

http://baanthailand.com/en/phuket/mueang+phuket/houses+and+villas/1001885

a 3mil house.. they put about 1.5mil in decoration and changes(if they put more they got ripped off) they give you a 1000baht tesco fridge and ask for 8mil(been online for almost 3 years, they refuse rentals)

same project

http://baanthailand.com/en/phuket/mueang+phuket/houses+and+villas/1001887

trying to pull a 1mil profit.. there's no quality materials... the stairs arent even straight. nextdoor left has 4 huge dogs that roam free and attack people, right house has 9 dogs inside that bark day in and out

Understand these owners would be about the same thing as curing cancer

[BangTaoBoy]

You have pulled your house off the market. So maybe you were a bullshit seller.

Where do average income, Thai families who are new to the area, buy their houses from? Is there another more accurate Thai market operating along side the deluded, inflated Farang one?

[ronz28]

Location and timing are everything in Real Estate. Here is an example of loss on oceanfront property in Florida by someone who had to liquidate.

http://www.news-journalonline.com/news/local/east-volusia/2010/09/02/oceanfront-lot-recently-sold-at-205-million-loss.html

[Abrak]

you guys are talking about the high end market.. but high end market is mostly full of idiots who throw money away... one day you'Re bound to hit your 500% profit if you wait long enough

there's not enough talk about the hilarious ask price for these low-end houses: http://houseinphuket.com/houses/HFS/a0808/

theres about 500 of them for sale on thailand baan... mostly in thalang.. house that cost 2mil and are now 4-5mil with no decoration, just ugly ceramic and dirty pastel thai kitchens

I want to know who those sellers are.. where are they from, who raised them and how the hel_l did they even get 50baht in their pockets?

being delusional is kind of normal in the 6mil+market.. but in the 1-3mil it's really funny

this one is my LOL of the day

http://baanthailand.com/en/phuket/mueang+phuket/houses+and+villas/1001889

basically for 400 thousand baht more in the same project you get a brand new 2 storey twin house with more land... that house was built for about 1.8mil and its in front of a bunch of rabid dogs and a huge fighting rotweiller/boxer who barks all the time

this is the lol of the year

http://baanthailand.com/en/phuket/mueang+phuket/houses+and+villas/1001885

a 3mil house.. they put about 1.5mil in decoration and changes(if they put more they got ripped off) they give you a 1000baht tesco fridge and ask for 8mil(been online for almost 3 years, they refuse rentals)

same project

http://baanthailand.com/en/phuket/mueang+phuket/houses+and+villas/1001887

trying to pull a 1mil profit.. there's no quality materials... the stairs arent even straight. nextdoor left has 4 huge dogs that roam free and attack people, right house has 9 dogs inside that bark day in and out

Understand these owners would be about the same thing as curing cancer

Your examples are not low end.

You should look at the Bt1.5m-Bt2.5m market which is doing incredibly well with the likes of LH, Supalai and smaller developers. Some projects have sold out within a week if it is well priced and well located. I agree anything above Bt3m is not selling.

Also these are tiny projects - 80 units at best.

[NamKangMan]

It will be very, very interesting in a few years time when these "30 year land leases" to farang are up. No one knows what will happen. An "option" for another 30 years, to my knowledge, has not been tested in a Thai Court. My understanding is "the clause on the contract" is not recognised at Thai Law and, therefore, can be "voided."

In any case, what's stopping the Thai Landlord from saying, "The lease on the land is now going to be 2 million baht for the next 30 years." In order to sell your property, you would have to discount that amount off the sale price and the Thai Landord cleans up. It will be very hard to sell when that time comes that sees a lot of these 30 years land leases coming up, due to the boom on Phuket some years ago.

Of course, the landlord may just put a crazy price on the land lease just because he wants to retain the house, that sits on his land.

I think hiring bulldozers might be a good business in the future, on Phuket. :) :)

[thaiwanderer]

It will be very, very interesting in a few years time when these "30 year land leases" to farang are up. No one knows what will happen. An "option" for another 30 years, to my knowledge, has not been tested in a Thai Court. My understanding is "the clause on the contract" is not recognised at Thai Law and, therefore, can be "voided."

In any case, what's stopping the Thai Landlord from saying, "The lease on the land is now going to be 2 million baht for the next 30 years." In order to sell your property, you would have to discount that amount off the sale price and the Thai Landord cleans up. It will be very hard to sell when that time comes that sees a lot of these 30 years land leases coming up, due to the boom on Phuket some years ago.

Of course, the landlord may just put a crazy price on the land lease just because he wants to retain the house, that sits on his land.

I think hiring bulldozers might be a good business in the future, on Phuket. :) :)

Of course there are timebombs around but there are also farang lesees who also happen to effectively be the lessor (which of course brings it's own problems and depending on the precise sturucture may have varying strength).

I suspect many of those leases that rely on a lessor at arms length co-operating on renewal relate to land that's the lessee will have had their value out of by the end of 30 years and if not they only have themselves to blame.

[Abrak]

It will be very, very interesting in a few years time when these "30 year land leases" to farang are up. No one knows what will happen. An "option" for another 30 years, to my knowledge, has not been tested in a Thai Court. My understanding is "the clause on the contract" is not recognised at Thai Law and, therefore, can be "voided."

In any case, what's stopping the Thai Landlord from saying, "The lease on the land is now going to be 2 million baht for the next 30 years." In order to sell your property, you would have to discount that amount off the sale price and the Thai Landord cleans up. It will be very hard to sell when that time comes that sees a lot of these 30 years land leases coming up, due to the boom on Phuket some years ago.

Of course, the landlord may just put a crazy price on the land lease just because he wants to retain the house, that sits on his land.

I think hiring bulldozers might be a good business in the future, on Phuket. :) :)

Actually the Phuket Land Office allows you to register one 30 year option to renew. But an 'option to renew' can only be an option if it is fixed at a certain price. An option to renew at the owners discretion is not an option.

The underlying principal of a 30 + 30 lease may not have been fully tested under Thai Law but as it is given by the Crown Property on various properties one can probably assume it is legal. The real problem comes if the the option is granted by a 'person' who no longer is alive in which case his inheritors might claim no responsibility to honor the option which dies with him.

I do however find it difficult to imagine that a contract of 30 + 30 given by the Crown will not be respected under the legal system although the legal system might deem the Crown to be fallible.

[barka]

All are opinions only..nothing is any differant now untill the present law changes..if ever

Just remember.. the onus is on the buyer....BUYER BEWARE...

[thaiwanderer]

It will be very, very interesting in a few years time when these "30 year land leases" to farang are up. No one knows what will happen. An "option" for another 30 years, to my knowledge, has not been tested in a Thai Court. My understanding is "the clause on the contract" is not recognised at Thai Law and, therefore, can be "voided."

In any case, what's stopping the Thai Landlord from saying, "The lease on the land is now going to be 2 million baht for the next 30 years." In order to sell your property, you would have to discount that amount off the sale price and the Thai Landord cleans up. It will be very hard to sell when that time comes that sees a lot of these 30 years land leases coming up, due to the boom on Phuket some years ago.

Of course, the landlord may just put a crazy price on the land lease just because he wants to retain the house, that sits on his land.

I think hiring bulldozers might be a good business in the future, on Phuket. :) :)

Actually the Phuket Land Office allows you to register one 30 year option to renew. But an 'option to renew' can only be an option if it is fixed at a certain price. An option to renew at the owners discretion is not an option.

The underlying principal of a 30 + 30 lease may not have been fully tested under Thai Law but as it is given by the Crown Property on various properties one can probably assume it is legal. The real problem comes if the the option is granted by a 'person' who no longer is alive in which case his inheritors might claim no responsibility to honor the option which dies with him.

I do however find it difficult to imagine that a contract of 30 + 30 given by the Crown will not be respected under the legal system although the legal system might deem the Crown to be fallible.

the 'registration' of the lease document that contains such an option does not amount to a registration of the 2nd 30 year period

that requires the co-operation of the freeholder in 30 years time and if no longer the original lessor is not enforceable and even if it is the original lessor you woulkd need to take legal action to force a renewal (if they aren't co-operating) and that opens its own problems which aren't necessarily defeated by pre-payment 30 years in the past

[LivinLOS]

Dont take this nastily.. Its not intended that way.

I have a property I've had on the market for the past three years. Architect built (not something scratched on the back of a beer mat by some pissed up wanabe architect farang,), nor something pulled from one of those books Thai builders are apt to throw up. No pun intended.

Given that property/land sale prices on the island are not only holding but rising, I think 'why in the hel_l am I putting up with this'.

I am unsure how you can hold both those views. Especially when you include..

And have pulled my property off the 'market', which, as far as I can see, is only for arrogant dickheads thinking they can get a 'deal' over the red shirt/Surayud fiasco, or those with more money than sense flying their private planes onto what was once a tropical paradise, but is fastly and furiously turning into Pattaya II.

Property is 'worth' only what someone will pay for it.. This isnt a very liquid market and thats becoming obvious. Sellers will have to face the fact that theres not the flood of money that came from cheap western credit and rising western asset prices. I personally dont see why anyone would buy, unless the home was the perfect dream home match to them, at much over say 10 - 20% above build. Yet the vast majority of homes I see on the market are still way way above that !! Perhaps this is because the buyers at the time got swept up in the pricing of the time and find it hard to get out without a loss which they are as yet unwilling to realize.

I went and looked at a plot of land yesterday, and the Thais selling the parcel are just mad on pricing.. Its a rai of Kathu mountainside with a nice view, but it took about 45 minutes to even get the owner to name a price and they started with 35k a TW so about 14m per rai, for Kathu hillside !! I pointed out theres 1.5 rai on the country club surrounded by golf courses (with a lifetime family membership too) unsold for a year at about 12k/tw asking.. Then they started countering that they would give a totally different price if they could be the builder (so what, your going to make that much building it.. I dont think so).. I took about another 2 hours of niceties, chatting, drinking water, to leave still without any firm price actually named but the strong impression it could be bought for around 5m, still 50% too high for Kathu IMO. I should point out, they pestered me (my wife), pushed and pushed me repeatedly to look at the plot for sale, yet wont name a price and waste everyones time because they dont know if they want to sell !! This whole attitude seems to me to be all too common, anyone with a scrap of land on Phuket thinks its jackpot stuff, yet once you look theres parcels people are trying to sell, and pricing accordingly and are on the market years (I think theres still 2 rai of lakeside in Kathu for 5m total.. Was for months this year anyway). How can one plot be 2.5m a rai and the next be 14m, when neither are rocky headland overlooking huge seaview.

Anyway rant over, just wasted my evening yesterday trying to get a definitive firm answer from a Thai woman, who no doubt if I expressed interest in it would start all over again from the top. But simply put, you dont get a couple of million piece of land, slap a 5 or 6 million build on it, and get to sell it for 20 - 25 mil, or at least not any more.

[LivinLOS]

I think your assumptions are a little out of whack.

I do not not think that prices are 'rising' I think this is what is the bullshit.

As an example I built a villa here - designed by the most famous architect in Phuket. I bought the land 1 rai right on the west coast ocean in October 1997. I built the villa over the next 18 months. Pretty good timing. I sold 10 years later at 80% profit but I had spent a lot on it imbetween. And my timing of purchase and build were very good considering the crisis. It took 2 years to sell and it was a beautiful 600 sqm villa 20m from the sea.

Great timing, and sounds realistic, having held it a long time, getting it bedded in, and being prime western land over that period.

This market was driven by a few people getting off the plane and making high value buys, then every owner used every new buy to massively revalue each place, take away the flood of chased up noob buyers and that house of cards collapses. Leaving everyone holding properties feeling bitter that they are not getting what its 'worth'.

And please understand your house is worth exactly what you sell it for - no more, no less. You talk about 'fire sale' wasters but are you really a seller when it has taken you 3 years to sell? I simply do not believe prices have risen much over the last 7 years.

I tend to agree if you need the cash now. I think I posted before, about the 38m baht villa, which isnt sold with a price of 18m.. 18m is very close to his build price, considering the land its on and the quality of build, and a mil or so of furnishings. That build was about 8 years ago and I think he will be lucky to leave the market with what he put in. Its very nice, its just not perfect for me, and with 18m I reckon I could do better on the build.

You have pulled your house off the market. So maybe you were a bullshit seller. Dont complain about the buyers and realize your house is worth exactly how much you decide to sell it at. All my neighbours in my old villa told me I sold it too cheap - which is fine as long as they understand why they havent sold their place.

Realism !!

[LivinLOS]

It will be very, very interesting in a few years time when these "30 year land leases" to farang are up. No one knows what will happen. An "option" for another 30 years, to my knowledge, has not been tested in a Thai Court. My understanding is "the clause on the contract" is not recognised at Thai Law and, therefore, can be "voided."

In any case, what's stopping the Thai Landlord from saying, "The lease on the land is now going to be 2 million baht for the next 30 years." In order to sell your property, you would have to discount that amount off the sale price and the Thai Landord cleans up. It will be very hard to sell when that time comes that sees a lot of these 30 years land leases coming up, due to the boom on Phuket some years ago.

Of course, the landlord may just put a crazy price on the land lease just because he wants to retain the house, that sits on his land.

I think hiring bulldozers might be a good business in the future, on Phuket. :) :)

Well what stops them is a well drawn up lease will of course specify the extension price..

But the fact remains that +30+30 is untested and looks weak.. From what lawyers have explained all a seller has to do is demonstrate a material change to their circumstances (my kid wants to go to college) and any 'future obligation' such as this is unenforceable.

Or even simply pass the land to his kids who didnt sign the lease and you now have a new land owner, go sue the old one in civil court and see how far that gets you.

Even more simply think it will be Farangs v Thais in Thai court over the hot issue of 'Thailand is for Thais' I wouldnt expect that to end well (for the farang).

[LivinLOS]

I do however find it difficult to imagine that a contract of 30 + 30 given by the Crown will not be respected under the legal system although the legal system might deem the Crown to be fallible.

Its fair to assume many leases will be honored, many will ba backed up by honorable people who understood they were effectively 'selling' it and will continue to agree.. But its the ones that dont that will obviously be the issue.

Dealing with the CP group isnt the same as Phuket Somchai looking at a few rai of hillside land, that he thinks he owns, that his dear departed father leased for a while, and now has more assets sat on it than he could ever work for and achieve.

[Abrak]

Its fair to assume many leases will be honored, many will ba backed up by honorable people who understood they were effectively 'selling' it and will continue to agree.. But its the ones that dont that will obviously be the issue.

Dealing with the CP group isnt the same as Phuket Somchai looking at a few rai of hillside land, that he thinks he owns, that his dear departed father leased for a while, and now has more assets sat on it than he could ever work for and achieve.

True.... you cannot ever really get away from the fact that the longest lease that can be legally registered under the Thai Law is 30 years.

Yes and I would guess Phuket Somchai might also face a small tax problem. Like the 30+30+30 that was effectively sold at Bt6m (i.e. Bt2m + Bt2m + Bt2m) with full payment upfront warrants a tax bill (probably up to 37% on the second Bt2m) when the +30 is registered.

I dont know what people actually do but I certainly would be proactive with Phuket Somchai. With say 10 years left on my lease, I would negotiate a cancellation and re-registration of 30 years. Pay his tax bill and a small sweetner.

[madmitch]

It may have been asked before but what happens if you have a 30 year lease and decide to sell after, say, 10 years? Are you selling a 20 year lease which is not an attractive proposition to a prospective buyer and impossible to sell to a Thai? Does that mean that any property purchased on such a leasehold basis is effectively a depreciating asset?

I really don't know the answer to this one but I am sure there is someone out there who does.