Who Owns What ?

[Thules]

This topic is about Falang and Thai's different attitudes towards paying for and owning material goods.

It is not about any Thai bashing, and I hereby request MODS to immediately trash posts that pertain to such.

Rather, I would like this thread to concentrate upon the differences in honest throught processes between Falangs and Thais. For instance, and based upon a previous thread, a Falang buys a new car and puts it in his g/f /wife /lover's name. You can substitute building a new home if you wish.

The point now isn't even about the legality of ownership, but more about what he is entitled to vs. his Thai legal 'owner' partner who will likely and unoffically claim these assets for staying with the Falang. Does the Thai g/f /wife /lover feel morally justified and entiteled to do whatever she/his likes with those assets now under her/his name or does she/he really and fundamentally know they belong to the Falang ?

Can / should the Falang contest ownership based upon his/her purchase of the said item ?

Clearly a question of morality, but maybe also a question of 'som nom nah falang' or the ubiquitous 'buyer beware' ?

[smokie36]

If you don't know the answer to this question you should cancel your flight before its too late.

[wolf5370]

If you are legally married, you are entitled to 50% of the marital assets - if you are not, and have 'gifted' them to your 'partner' then it was a gift and belongs to them. There are arguements you could use in a law suit, but its sticky ground and probably not worth the cost. The oft said golden rule, never buy anything here that is not in your name that you can't afford to walk away from. Rent, lease or buy in your name - or don't buy it.

[Abrak]

P.S. If you legally put assets in your wife's name they are hers. But you should only do that if you want her to own those assets.

Alternatively you might use her as a nominee in which case you will own the assets. I think it is important to seperate business from pleasure or present moral issues to your partner that she might find conflicts her values.

It is very difficult, however well you know a Thai, to understand their moral values. There is also often where moral values are swayed by material benefits which is not healthy from either their moral standpoint or your financial one. These matters are fairly irrelevant if you you have a decent lawyer.

[Forethat]

If you legally put assets in your wife's name they are hers. But you should only do that if you want her to own those assets.

What you are trying to say here is that matrimonial property is equally owned regardless of who's name is on the contract presuming the asset was aquired AFTER the parties entered marriage?

Edited September 2, 2010 by Forethat

[Beetlejuice]

The answer is, just be very wary when choosing a Thai girlfriend or wife.

In most cases it`s could, maybe, possible or I`m not sure. Finding out the the hard way if the crap hits the fan can cost you dear.

Just tread carefully out there and do not dive in at the deep end too quickly.

[prakhonchai nick]

Since,most land purchases have to be made in a Thai name, it would be a wise move to draw up a loan contract with the wife/girlfriend requiring repayment of the loan (the sum spent on the property, or a proportion of it) in the event of the relationship failing. This could also be used when buying a vehicle or anything else expensive.

Whether enforceable in law I am not sure, but it will put the wind up her.

[mca]

On another angle my entire assets in the world are willed to my wife and then my daughter.

[GuestHouse]

On what basis did the relationship start.

If it started as a financial transaction for services rendered then it is a pretty sure bet that it will continue on that line, the payer buying the services of the seller and the seller accumulating money and assets for services rendered.

[Loz]

I have seen so many guys put total faith in the wife who's value system they seem not to understand. If you can afford to loose it then you can choose to have blind faith. I know its nice and romantic. But if you can't afford blind faith I suggest a more conservative approach to acquiring goods of any sizable value in thailand.

[geriatrickid]

Why put an asset in someone's name if one is going to live in fear of losing the asset? As soon as it is gifted over, it's that person's and you have no rights to claim the property. If you cannot accept that, then do not do it.

[sarahsbloke]

Since,most land purchases have to be made in a Thai name, it would be a wise move to draw up a loan contract with the wife/girlfriend requiring repayment of the loan (the sum spent on the property, or a proportion of it) in the event of the relationship failing. This could also be used when buying a vehicle or anything else expensive.

Whether enforceable in law I am not sure, but it will put the wind up her.

I'm under the impression that contracts between husband/wife are not valid in Thailand, marriage supersedes all contracts.

I also believe that a Thai will think anything put in their name is theirs to do with as they will.

When you put a property in your wife's name I believe the land office ask you to sign a declaration that this is not jointly owned but entirely hers, so don't do it.

Strangely enought I was having a conversation with my wife about this last night.

She tells me, "Thai lady does not own anything, everything should be in the husbands name and totally owned by the husband, this is the Thai way. Thai lady who wants things in her own name, no good, not love husband"

Very curious thing to say... she started on this because I had bought her a motorcycle in her name and she wanted to put it in my name.

Edited September 3, 2010 by sarahsbloke

[Loz]

SB, thats either a lovely partner you have or, a superb long range planner.

She sounds lovely, I have met lovely women here too. I have not married them but I have recognized that once you can begin to understand and more importantly accept them, they can be utterly lovely. My best friend who is marrying shortly to a farang knows that he does not understand her or really appreciate her but the marriage gives her some long term stability and does not require full time co-habitation or re-patriation. He's happy, she's happy. Even I am happy.

[wolf5370]

Since,most land purchases have to be made in a Thai name, it would be a wise move to draw up a loan contract with the wife/girlfriend requiring repayment of the loan (the sum spent on the property, or a proportion of it) in the event of the relationship failing. This could also be used when buying a vehicle or anything else expensive.

Whether enforceable in law I am not sure, but it will put the wind up her.

As I understand it the property is supposed to be purchased with her money, if its your money (via a loan etc), then I'm not sure this will be safe come a law suit - saying you loaned her cash like a bank, and it was irrespective of what she purchased is not a safe arguement thy court will see it as you trying to circumvent the law - a safer bet is to get a usufruct (with your AND a third paty - kid perhaps - name on it). The its safe untio you die (make the usufruct life term) - you can't sell it, but then neither can she (legally she can, but who would buy it as you would still have right to live there and of all produce of the land). You can also put the property in the kids name if you have any, with a contract that you will be the legal guardian of the child's affairs until they reach maturity.

[Mario2008]

It makes a big difference if the OP is talking about a spouse or a girlfriend and if he is talking about land or not.

Besides the strict rules on land, Thai law isn't that different from the laws in most western countries. How you proof ownership if you break up is a question of evidence. If you buy a car in someones else's name, it can be argued that it is a gift to that person.

[Thules]

I was meaning to include all the different forms of relationships, we collectively have here, and also the different forms of assets that we put 'under' other people's names from cars, to businesses, and homes. It was for this reason, I smiled after reading the first reply to this thread. Basically Smokey saying If you don't know the answer to this question you should cancel your flight before its too late . True enough, of course. None of us likes to learn lessons the hard way. However, issues surrounding ownership according to type of relationship, and type of asset, and the practicalities of the justice system here, aren't so easily 'just googled' before we get to the departure lounge.

Actually it's more the thought processes of the Thai people that interest me. Specifically, the rational they employ to really believe something belongs to them, but from a foreigner's perspective nothing could be further from the truth. Again I don't wish this thread to become derogatory, but an insight into how the Thai people might rationalise some things (especially when it comes to ownership) in a different way to what we might expect.

[IanForbes]

I know lots of happily married couples in Thailand. I'm talking about Thai women and farang men. Many have widely separating ages. I'm not going to name names, but those that know me personally know who I am taling about. I would trust any one of those Thai women with the home finances... as have their husbands. No problems at all. However, if I was considering a long term relationship or marriage then I would certainly set the home finances up in a living will and have everything legally drawn up. I don't know the legalities of living in Thailand, but I certainly would if there was any substantial amount of money involved. I own a couple of motorcycles in Thailand, and have personal friends looking after them for me. I've just said that if anything were to happen to me when I was in Canada then my friends would have ownership of the bikes. The financial loss would not hurt me if anything happened to the bikes when I'm away.

[Thules]

Well said Ian. It's refreshing to hear examples of strong relationships where the issue of ownership just isn't an issue !

[Loz]

I'm tempted the rent out my SUV when I go back to England and my friend who will marry soon is the first person I would trust with this,and the only one in fact.She is most trust worthy and most thoughtful and considerate of others. She's only person out here to buy me a car for christmas. So I would be happy to entrust the collection of payments and managing the insurance to her and would try and get her to take a little payment for her trouble but doubt she'd take it.

There are some very lovely people here, they tend however, NOT to be the ones who want to rush a farang into marriage.

As a rule, people who find it hard to talk openly about anything are people I find hard to trust. THAT is a LOT of thai people but, particularly women in my experience. Sometimes it seems they think there is something virtuous about being "mysterious". Just makes me thinking about hitting dogs with sticks, really. 'cos you can't hit women.

[billd766]

On another angle my entire assets in the world are willed to my wife and then my daughter.

Me too, except that it would be my wife and then our son.

[welsh1]

The answer is, just be very wary when choosing a Thai girlfriend or wife.

In most cases it`s could, maybe, possible or I`m not sure. Finding out the the hard way if the crap hits the fan can cost you dear.

Just tread carefully out there and do not dive in at the deep end too quickly.

and in some cases just by trying to recuperate some of your assets may result in death

[Thules]

Yes, Tread carefully with investing all your assets in anybody.

Any yet, I'm intrigued (in a slightly provactive way) with mca and billd766's replies. They are happy enough to will everything to their wife and then son/daughter (which is admirable). But I would, respectfully, like to ask them how they would feel if they were to put everything, all their assets in their wife's name during their lifetime.

I'm hoping they would feel equally secure, and yet I wonder whether they would feel really so secure in having done so.

So mca & billd766, the question's not loaded, and I'll respect your answers without contention. Are you so happily secure in your family relationships that it wouldn't make any difference if you were now to put everything in your wife's name rather than to will it to her ?

If so, Good for you, If not, I'd like to understand your reservations... again without subsequent judgement.

[mca]

Not a problem at all. I've known my wife nigh on 15 years, been married for just over 10 and have a daughter just started P1. At the risk of sounding a soppy <deleted> our marriage has just been a normal loving relationship. There's never been a bad word between us. Ever. I'm 43 and she's a year younger. We idolize our daughter, my wife's family idolize me and my family likewise do her.

I met her in Bangkok when I worked there and she was in the finance department of the huge international company I worked for. My wife's family are mid-level business people who have no need of my support. FIL's just traded in his car for a new Honda Accord. In fact when I bought my new car and the bank screwed up the transfer from the UK he gave me a bridging loan to get the car until my money cleared.

I don't work but I'm to young for a retirement visa. I rent properties back home that give me a decent income. My wife's a career woman. Until the change in regs I used to extend my visa on her salary which led a certain officer in NK to sarcastically remark to her " Why do they pay you so much?" In fact one new officer had to check the regs with the boss because she'd never encountered a westerner wishing to extend using this method.

Basically what I've got is all hers and my daughter's. My Thai friends informed me that if our marriage went on the rocks then they'd start to doubt their own wives.

Being brutally frank I didn't marry somebody who's family don't have a pot to piss in nor the necessary window to throw it out of which is the major problem of so many round my way ( and I'm talking Thai on Thai relationships as well).

If my wife's a schemer then she's done a bloody good job of hiding it 24/365 since I've known her. She should have all my assets for being an Oscar worthy actress if that's the case.

And I'm leaving myself open to be shot down here but every single relationship I've personally seen here where the western hubby's been stitched up by his wife / gf has not surprised me in the least.

[Thules]

^mca, Thanks for your reply, and good for you, and I wish you continued happiness.

I'm a bit older than you, and 1 year into a seemingly very happy relationship with a fantastic Thai lady. We haven't said a bad word to each other in the past year which seems to be too good to be true. In time I hope to have the absolute trust that you enjoy. Maybe there should be a health warning attached to some of the horror stories I read here. Anyway, thanks for sharing, all the best !

[mca]

Cheers.

Sorry to stray of topic but I do get confused by a lot of Western/Thai relationships and question whether these guys are trying to convince themselves they love the person they're with and don't have the balls or maybe they've invested too much to bail.

A couple of case in points.

All these happened at the Pullman hotel in KK.

I was taking my daughter swimming and this guy started talking with me. The girl he was with lay on a lounger with a face like thunder. He told me to ignore her as she was in a snot because he was too tired to take her to buy some gold. He then went on to tell me the wedding they had planned the next month! She then stormed off saying " I go see my friend "

He told me he'd been having a problem since he couldn't afford the sinsod asked by her parents. A cool mill.

Another guy started talking to me a few months later. I reckon they think I'm a sympathetic ear to their misery passing as a relationship.

His actual wife had buggered off for a couple of days in a temper because she'd been bragging to the village about how they (meaning him) were going to buy a new Fortuner and then he changed his mind to save money and bought a standard 4 door pickup meaning she'd "lost face".

Now I don't know about other posters or if i live in some alternative universe inhabited only by me but I'll be fuc_ked if I'd have my wife/gf whoever treat me with such contempt.

My folks have been married for 45 years and it's a huuuuuge stretch of the imagination to imagine my mum ever treating my dad this way. But a load of westerners here seem to take a mouthful of shit and don't know when to stop swallowing.

[Thules]

Precisely mca !...

and those are exactly the kind of horror stories we hear here that leave so many of us jaded... and lacking in trust for so much longer. As said previously, I have a fantastic lady, and have absolutely no reason not to believe her implicitely,.. and then there are the stories... that would leave us bankrupt if maybe we did believe her implicitely.

And that's the rub.. you're doing great, yet can still provide horror stories, and indeed that's the basis for the thread.

(Were you blessed with having a fairly godmother as well ? )

[Thakkar]

Cheers.

Sorry to stray of topic but I do get confused by a lot of Western/Thai relationships and question whether these guys are trying to convince themselves they love the person they're with and don't have the balls or maybe they've invested too much to bail.

A couple of case in points.

All these happened at the Pullman hotel in KK.

I was taking my daughter swimming and this guy started talking with me. The girl he was with lay on a lounger with a face like thunder. He told me to ignore her as she was in a snot because he was too tired to take her to buy some gold. He then went on to tell me the wedding they had planned the next month! She then stormed off saying " I go see my friend "

He told me he'd been having a problem since he couldn't afford the sinsod asked by her parents. A cool mill.

Another guy started talking to me a few months later. I reckon they think I'm a sympathetic ear to their misery passing as a relationship.

His actual wife had buggered off for a couple of days in a temper because she'd been bragging to the village about how they (meaning him) were going to buy a new Fortuner and then he changed his mind to save money and bought a standard 4 door pickup meaning she'd "lost face".

Now I don't know about other posters or if i live in some alternative universe inhabited only by me but I'll be fuc_ked if I'd have my wife/gf whoever treat me with such contempt.

My folks have been married for 45 years and it's a huuuuuge stretch of the imagination to imagine my mum ever treating my dad this way. But a load of westerners here seem to take a mouthful of shit and don't know when to stop swallowing.

I guess some guys are just bitch magnets. I've known a few myself, and not just in Thailand.

[Thules]

^ Isn't that just the truth ! ? By sheer luck I might just be now demagnatized.. but it's taken a decade. How about you ? Still attractive ?

[Thakkar]

^ Isn't that just the truth ! ? By sheer luck I might just be now demagnatized.. but it's taken a decade. How about you ? Still attractive ?

I do have a magnetic personality, but is doesn't seem to work on bitches.

[BigPanda]

Precisely mca !...

and those are exactly the kind of horror stories we hear here that leave so many of us jaded... and lacking in trust for so much longer. As said previously, I have a fantastic lady, and have absolutely no reason not to believe her implicitely,.. and then there are the stories... that would leave us bankrupt if maybe we did believe her implicitely.

And that's the rub.. you're doing great, yet can still provide horror stories, and indeed that's the basis for the thread.

(Were you blessed with having a fairly godmother as well ? )

As I can see your number of post and the date you joined TV, your new to Thailand. Just hoping your new gig is not like my ex for your own good. I used to think like you before i realised i was getting scammed for the last 2 years by a woman i tought i had a relationship with.

I probably gave you the best comment you will ever have, but I know you will not believe it as i didnt in your age and situation...

Let us know in a couple month.