Red Shirts To Hold Mass Rally In Chiang Mai Sept 18

[whybother]

PM offered early elections if I am missing something I believe Red Shirts turned him down. On dear to bad not satisfied with what the wanted from the get go and got nothing.

missing something? a couple of things

When conditions for November elections were offered; Sondhi/PAD screamed bloody blue that he would taked Abhisit out of power; when power broker Sondhi gives the orders one better listen

Sondhi put Thaksin in power, took him out and other PMs put Abhisit in

The reds turned down the conditions for the elections, the yellows ordered the elections OFF

(no need to Post links, it's fressh memories)

It's irrelevant what the Yellows said. Abhisit offered the REDS an election, and the REDS turned it down.

IF the Reds had accepted, and then the offer was rescinded because of what the Yellows said, ONLY then would it be relevant.

[rubl]

PM offered early elections if I am missing something I believe Red Shirts turned him down. On dear to bad not satisfied with what the wanted from the get go and got nothing.

missing something? a couple of things

When conditions for November elections were offered; Sondhi/PAD screamed bloody blue that he would taked Abhisit out of power; when power broker Sondhi gives the orders one better listen

Sondhi put Thaksin in power, took him out and other PMs put Abhisit in

The reds turned down the conditions for the elections, the yellows ordered the elections OFF

(no need to Post links, it's fressh memories)

Interesting interpretation, but a bit garbled methinks.

I 'freshly' remember that the UDD/reds unconditionally offered to negotiate with the government on an election date, if only they would withdraw the army first. That was just before the start of enclosing Ratchaprasong, the area where the peaceful protesters, not terrorists had their last stand. Negotiations felt through with conflicting reasons given. UDD leaders vowed to fight till their last drop of blood and surrendered. That's when the remaining red's got angry and started on K. Arisman's backup plan burn the city, or at least those parts own by the elite in the opposite camp.

[craigt3365]

PM offered early elections if I am missing something I believe Red Shirts turned him down. On dear to bad not satisfied with what the wanted from the get go and got nothing.

missing something? a couple of things

When conditions for November elections were offered; Sondhi/PAD screamed bloody blue that he would taked Abhisit out of power; when power broker Sondhi gives the orders one better listen

Sondhi put Thaksin in power, took him out and other PMs put Abhisit in

The reds turned down the conditions for the elections, the yellows ordered the elections OFF

(no need to Post links, it's fressh memories)

Interesting interpretation, but a bit garbled methinks.

I 'freshly' remember that the UDD/reds unconditionally offered to negotiate with the government on an election date, if only they would withdraw the army first. That was just before the start of enclosing Ratchaprasong, the area where the peaceful protesters, not terrorists had their last stand. Negotiations felt through with conflicting reasons given. UDD leaders vowed to fight till their last drop of blood and surrendered. That's when the remaining red's got angry and started on K. Arisman's backup plan burn the city, or at least those parts own by the elite in the opposite camp.

Unconditionally? Hardly...their conditions were impossible to begin with (immediate elections, withdraw army, etc.) and then changed from day to day...

And who in their right mind would withdraw protection of the general public after what happened in April? Along with all the other crazy stuff that was going on...

[Buchholz]

Deputy PM: Authorities Won't Tolerate Any Illegal Activities at Sep 19 Red-Shirt Rally

The deputy prime minister in charge of national security has issued a warning to the red-shirt protesters saying that any illegal activities during their rally planned for September 19 will be swiftly dealt with.

Earlier today at the Government House, Deputy Prime Minister in charge of the national security, Suthep Thaugsuban, who is also the director of the Center for the Resolution of Emergency Situation or CRES, commented on the September 19 rally planned by the red-shirt group, saying that any illegal activity at the rally will be swiftly dealt with by the authorities. Suthep also denied that additional emergency laws will be enacted in advance of the rally.

-- Tan Network 2010-09-07

[hammered]

I don't think it's the rallies and or protests that are keeping tourism down.Just look at the exchange rate's baht versus the dollar,euro and the pound sterling.The majority of tourists here are backpacker's and they travel on a budget.Also,not to mention that the expats living here and the tourists alike must pay atm fee 150 baht per transaction to withdraw money to spend on the economy here.Also,have a look around and see that many of the backpacker's here now choose to use a songtau rather then the tuk tuk for taxi because of the price gouging and double standard of pricing.Travelled to bangkok a few week's ago and what tourists there are down there are mostly from the middle east who spend more time trying to bargain and don't purchase anything.Any tourists that come here know well enough to stay away from the area of the protest or rallies! Having said that,as foreigner's living here as a guest in thailand we cannot say they (thai's ) should not be allowed to hold a rally or have a protest.No,it's not the protests or the rallies that ruin tourism.It's the above mentioned thing's plus the situation in the western and european economies is still in bad shape.People don't have money to travel or are choosing to travel at home and cannot travel abroad.

Last Songkhran some destinations had their best year ever on the back of Thai tourism that avoided Chiang Mai and went elsewhere. That is where the poltical part comes into it. NY is another time when traditionally CM does very well on the back of local Thai tourism, if the sentiment remains against the town for poltical reasons it will be a hard time again for CM. What you say about foreign tourism is true to an extent and as you note the markets are changing, but underestimate the need for indigenous tourists in some of these places including CM and right now there is still a lot of this kind of tourism but going elsewhere.

[hammered]

PM offered early elections if I am missing something I believe Red Shirts turned him down. On dear to bad not satisfied with what the wanted from the get go and got nothing.

missing something? a couple of things

When conditions for November elections were offered; Sondhi/PAD screamed bloody blue that he would taked Abhisit out of power; when power broker Sondhi gives the orders one better listen

Sondhi put Thaksin in power, took him out and other PMs put Abhisit in

The reds turned down the conditions for the elections, the yellows ordered the elections OFF

(no need to Post links, it's fressh memories)

Interesting interpretation, but a bit garbled methinks.

I 'freshly' remember that the UDD/reds unconditionally offered to negotiate with the government on an election date, if only they would withdraw the army first. That was just before the start of enclosing Ratchaprasong, the area where the peaceful protesters, not terrorists had their last stand. Negotiations felt through with conflicting reasons given. UDD leaders vowed to fight till their last drop of blood and surrendered. That's when the remaining red's got angry and started on K. Arisman's backup plan burn the city, or at least those parts own by the elite in the opposite camp.

When the leaderd surrendered or ran away leaving the preplanned arson around CBD to happen, the one thing that got overlooked was the Klong Toei mob which basically got so angry at its leaders that they had to flee. They then proceeded to burn what they fancied burning, and managed to torch a few businesses that were actually in the red camp or symathetic to it!

[Buchholz]

Black-clad instigators not gangsters but educated citizens, say police

CHIANG MAI, 14 September 2010 (NNT) – Chiang Mai’s police have urged the locals to help monitor instigation attempts as the United Front of Democracy Against Dictatorship (UDD)’s rally days are drawing near.

Police Major-General Sommai Kongwisaisuk, Chiang Mai’s Police Commander said the authorities are prepared for the upcoming UDD rally scheduled for 18-19 September though he believed no violence would occur as in previous protests.

He commented however that some UDD supporters started backing off from the gathering because they were bored with political unrest.

Pol Maj-Gen Sommai also revealed that black-clad forces had been spotted in the province.

He believed those people were not ordinary gangsters, but included university students and educated persons.

He said he did not think those people would be idealistic, but believed they expected decent pay for their activities.

Pol Maj Gen Sommai assured that state officials will try to handle the situation and people should not be overly agitated over negative effects that might develop.

-- NNT 2010-09-14

[Buchholz]

He said he did not think those people would be idealistic, but believed they expected decent pay for their activities.

What's the minimum daily wage for assassins these days?

[Piengrudee]

Pol Maj-Gen Sommai also revealed that black-clad forces had been spotted in the province. He believed those people were not ordinary gangsters, but included university students and educated persons. NNT 2010-09-14

[Buchholz]

Thaksin will not make phone-in to red rally on Sept 19

Former prime minister Thaksin Shinawatra will not make a phone call to address red-shirt people when they rally in Chiang Mai on Sunday to denounce the September 19 2006 coup.

Sriwan Janphong, a coordinator of the Chiang Mai red-shirt group, said Thaksin decided not to make a phone call to address the red-shirt people to show that the rally would be the people's fight, not his.

-- The Nation 2010-09-15

[Buchholz]

The criminal fugitive Thaksin won't be phoning in, but criminal fugitive Jakrapob and criminal fugitive Arisaman will be...

Sriwan Chanpong, the coordinator Chiang Mai red shirts group, said former PM's Office Minister Jakrapob Penkair and red-shirt leader Arisaman Pongruangrong would make phone calls to address the demonstrators.

-- The Nation 2010-09-15

[rubl]

As long as the red-shirt movement cannot distance itself from militant types like K. Jakrapop and K. Arisman it is difficult for non-red-shirts to take them serious I think. Especially our minstrel Arisman who likes to sing songs like 'Let's burn it my way' doesn't offer much confidence in 'peaceful protesters, not terrorists'

The red-shirt movement has lost it way and vision and should drop the UDD as soon as possible. Back to grassroots, people entitlement, participation. Drop ALL elite.

[rubl]

Thaksin will not make phone-in to red rally on Sept 19

Former prime minister Thaksin Shinawatra will not make a phone call to address red-shirt people when they rally in Chiang Mai on Sunday to denounce the September 19 2006 coup.

Sriwan Janphong, a coordinator of the Chiang Mai red-shirt group, said Thaksin decided not to make a phone call to address the red-shirt people to show that the rally would be the people's fight, not his.

-- The Nation 2010-09-15

The people's fight, true. But if PTP MP's are present and UDD leaders phone in it is very difficult to believe K. Thaksin is not involved.

Anyway K. Thaksin still has four more days to change his mind

[Buchholz]

Red Shirts to submit 4-point demand to government Sunday

The red-shirt people will submit a four-point demand for the government when they rally in Chiang Mai on Sunday on the occasion of fourth coup anniversary.

The rally will be held at the Chiang Mai Stadium and about 10,000 people are expected to join the demonstration, said Sriwan Chanpong, the coordinator Chiang Mai red shirts group.

Sriwan said the red shirts will call on the government to release "political prisoners"; reform the economic system by setting up the welfare state system; reform the judicial system by adopting the trial by jury system; and to guarantee commodities' prices for farmers.

Sriwan said former PM's Office minister Jakrapob Penkair and red-shirt leader Arisaman Pongruangrong would make phone calls to address the demonstrators.

-- The Nation 2010-09-15

[whybother]

Red Shirts to submit 4-point demand to government Sunday

The red-shirt people will submit a four-point demand for the government when they rally in Chiang Mai on Sunday on the occasion of fourth coup anniversary.

The rally will be held at the Chiang Mai Stadium and about 10,000 people are expected to join the demonstration, said Sriwan Chanpong, the coordinator Chiang Mai red shirts group.

Sriwan said the red shirts will call on the government to release "political prisoners"; reform the economic system by setting up the welfare state system; reform the judicial system by adopting the trial by jury system; and to guarantee commodities' prices for farmers.

Sriwan said former PM's Office minister Jakrapob Penkair and red-shirt leader Arisaman Pongruangrong would make phone calls to address the demonstrators.

-- The Nation 2010-09-15

Only 4 points?????? I thought there could only 5 point plans/demands/etc.

[Buchholz]

^ it's reflective of the culture. They were bargained down.

[rubl]

Sriwan said the red shirts will call on the government to release "political prisoners"; reform the economic system by setting up the welfare state system; reform the judicial system by adopting the trial by jury system; and to guarantee commodities' prices for farmers.

ad. 1. release political prisoners.

Assuming Thailand has them, I'd say OK. Can we also have criminals who are convicted and fled returned to serve their term?

ad.2. setup 'welfare' state.

You cannot setup a welfare state by snapping your fingers. You have to have a plan and slowly progress to it. A 'Welfare state' is bloody expensive and only works if all chip in. No problem for me to have the 'elite' finally return some of the 'found' money. Beware that ALL will need to chip in, ALL.

ad.3. trial by jury.

No need, not really, lots of democratic countries do without. Just make sure the juridical system is truly independent and shielded from political pressure of any type.

ad.4. guarantee commodities' prices for farmers.

Forget it, sorry. The world is moving away from that as it distorts price setting, markets, competition, etc. Some guidance may be given for awhile, but only with a plan to reduce the need for price guarantee.

No real problem for the government. Some steps are already taken or in preparations to be taken. The road-map of the PM is still being filled-in, input is welcome, open-minded discussions as well. I'd would think the red-shirts know how to get in touch with the government to offer their participation.

At least no deadline or conditions seem to have been put on this call to the government

[Buchholz]

In addition to criminal fugitives Jakrapob and Arisaman phoning in from parts unknown, a disgraced former PM will be there in lieu of the other disgraced former PM:

Thai Ousted Ex-PM Thaksin Not to Phone in during Upcoming Rally

The fugitive former Prime Minister Thaksin Shinawatra will not phone in to address his supporters -- "red-shirt" group -- during their rally on Sept. 19 in the northern province of Chiang Mai, a local media quoted Sriwan Janphong, a key coordinator of Chiangmai "red-shirts", as saying. Sriwan said ex-premier Thaksin will refrain from talking to " red-shirt" protesters to show that this time rally is the real fight of people. However, some core leader of "red-shirt" group including Arisman Pongruangrong, who is now under arrest warrant for terrorism charge but on escaping, will call in to address the demonstrators.

The United Front for Democracy against Dictatorship (UDD), as known as "red-shirt" movement, will stage demonstration in the capital city of Bangkok and Chiang Mai on Sept. 17-19 with smaller rallies in other provinces to denounce the 2006 coup detat. Their rally on Sept. 19 in Chiang Mai will be highlighted by the presence of Thaksin's brother-in-law and ex-PM Somchai Wongsawat, some UDD's leaders and the opposition Puea Thai MPs, who will be giving speeches.

Continued:

http://english.cri.cn/6966/2010/09/15/167s594648.htm

Xinhua - September 15, 2010

[rubl]

... Sriwan said ex-premier Thaksin will refrain from talking to " red-shirt" protesters to show that this time rally is the real fight of people. However, some core leader of "red-shirt" group including Arisman Pongruangrong, who is now under arrest warrant for terrorism charge but on escaping, will call in to address the demonstrators. ...

I guess something got lost in translation as 'this time rally is the real fight' doesn't match too well with 'peaceful protests'. On the other hand may be that's why K. Arisman will phone in to sing his rendition of 'I burned it my way'

(edit: better English, maybe one day I'll learn how to master this foreign language)

Edited September 15, 2010 by rubl

[Insight]

ad.3. trial by jury.

No need, not really, lots of democratic countries do without. Just make sure the juridical system is truly independent and shielded from political pressure of any type.

It really doesn't take much imagination as to why this one is on the list...

[Buchholz]

Jakrapob

Fugitive phone-ins but no Thaksin at red-shirt rallies

Sunday's red-shirt protest in Chiang Mai is expected to draw some 10,000 followers, even though ex-premier Thaksin Shinawatra has cancelled his video address to avoid criticism from opponents.

"The rally is designed to promote the people's struggle against the coup and Thaksin will have no involvement in it because he has suffered enough as a political victim," Sriwan Chanpong, one of the organisers, said yesterday.

Despite Thaksin's absence, several colourful highlights are scheduled, including phone-ins by fugitive leaders like Jakrapob Penkair and Arisman Pongruangrong, to raise awareness of the September 19, 2006 coup, Sriwan said.

Under the theme of "Sept 19: Eye-opener Across the Land", the activities will begin on Saturday with a cavalcade leaving red-shirt headquarters on Lat Phrao Road in Bangkok.

The procession is due to arrive at the northern province in the evening, when a welcoming ceremony is planned at the Three Kings statue in Muang district.

Sunday's programme will kick off with a march on Khu Mueang Road along the Chiang Mai moat, featuring a mock execution of those responsible for the May 19 crackdown on the red shirts in Bangkok. The procession will end at Chiang Mai Stadium, the designated rally site.

Keynote speakers including former Prime Minister Somchai Wongsawat and Pheu Thai MP Jatuporn Promphan will rouse the crowd from 6pm to midnight.

In staging the rally, organisers have outlined four demands - release political prisoners in custody since the 2006 power seizure, reform the judiciary to introduce trial by jury, retool the economy as a welfare state and close the income-disparity gap and institute a price guarantee for farm products.

Deputy Interior Minister Boonjong Wongtrairat said provincial authorities were prepared to closely monitor the rally for any disturbances although there was no report indicating the possibility of violence.

Police have beefed up security in the face of the reds coordinating their activities in Chiang Mai and Bangkok.

Metropolitan Police chief Lt General Santhan Chayanont voiced concern over a report that men in black were training in Cambodia with the aim of inciting violence in the capital this weekend. Police were checking the report and bracing for any eventuality, he said.

Police will coordinate with prison wardens to ensure no disorder when the red shirts lay flowers at the holding facilities for the red leaders facing various charges, he said.

The reds also plan to hold several rites at places that saw bloodshed during the unrest, such as Pathum Wanaram Temple, he said.

To keep peace at all venues where the reds plan to demonstrate, including Rajprasong Intersection and Thammasat University, 1,290 anti-riot police will be deployed and 1,740 will be on stand-by, he said.

-- The Nation 2010-09-16

[siampolee]

One finds it rather ironic that the Chang Mai Red Shirts discriminate against gay men yet one of (ex) Thailands leading gay icons is there as their main rabble rouser, money and a lust for unbridled power motivates does it not.

These people are evil, they are motivated by the brothers 1-10 who implemented genocide in Cambodia in the not too long gone past.

If anyone is actually gullible enough to swallow the bait these evil brothers lay out they are indeed going to be in for a rude awakening if these creatures ever gain national power.

[Fookhaht]

One finds it rather ironic that the Chang Mai Red Shirts discriminate against gay men yet one of (ex) Thailands leading gay icons is there as their main rabble rouser, money and a lust for unbridled power motivates does it not.

These people are evil, they are motivated by the brothers 1-10 who implemented genocide in Cambodia in the not too long gone past.

If anyone is actually gullible enough to swallow the bait these evil brothers lay out they are indeed going to be in for a rude awakening if these creatures ever gain national power.

Are you saying the Red Shirts have ties to the former Khmer Rouge of Cambodia? If so, can you substantiate your claim?

[siampolee]

The policies of class hatred and terrorism that the Red Shirt leadership espouse are indeed on a par with those of the Cambodian Brothers.

The Red Shirt movement was, nay is a fine movement dedicated to improving the lot of the Thai people.

Sadly that grass roots movement has been hi-jacked by people with ulterior motives and delusions of grandeur and megalomaniacs for their own ends.

Having lived here for some twenty years I have seen the rise and fall of a few despots, the ordinary folk I mix with and am related to by marriage in Surin and the surrounding areas have little or no trust in Thaksin and his puppets A.K.A the Red Shirts.

Those people are fully aware of and have suffered at the hands on, ''The Brothers 1-10.''

Common sense will prevail rest assured.

[craigt3365]

One finds it rather ironic that the Chang Mai Red Shirts discriminate against gay men yet one of (ex) Thailands leading gay icons is there as their main rabble rouser, money and a lust for unbridled power motivates does it not.

These people are evil, they are motivated by the brothers 1-10 who implemented genocide in Cambodia in the not too long gone past.

If anyone is actually gullible enough to swallow the bait these evil brothers lay out they are indeed going to be in for a rude awakening if these creatures ever gain national power.

Are you saying the Red Shirts have ties to the former Khmer Rouge of Cambodia? If so, can you substantiate your claim?

Maybe not direct ties, but many of the red fugitives are living it up in the casino there...all under the protection of the Cambo gov...

[Robby nz]

In staging the rally, organisers have outlined four demands - release political prisoners in custody since the 2006 power seizure, reform the judiciary to introduce trial by jury, retool the economy as a welfare state and close the income-disparity gap and institute a price guarantee for farm products.

At least they have come up with some real policy at last.

Previously it has just been 'bring back Thaksin'.

However they still have to learn to put them forward as "What we will do if we get to power" rather than demands

[hyperdimension]

At least no deadline or conditions seem to have been put on this call to the government

I was actually expecting to see an "or else..." clause attached to their "demands".

Maybe we'll have to wait for Arisman to reveal it when he addresses the crowd during the rally.

Edited September 16, 2010 by hyperdimension

[hyperdimension]

Keynote speakers including former Prime Minister Somchai Wongsawat and Pheu Thai MP Jatuporn Promphan will rouse the crowd from 6pm to midnight.

So is midnight the official finish time?

The finish time should be something that is proposed, agreed to by the government, and announced in advance.

If they continue past the agreed finish time then it should be declared illegal and the organizers should then be charged.

[sungod]

Quick stupid question for you CM fellas from a 'southerner',I see a few stadiums on the map, where exactly is the one in question? Thanks,

[Fookhaht]

One finds it rather ironic that the Chang Mai Red Shirts discriminate against gay men yet one of (ex) Thailands leading gay icons is there as their main rabble rouser, money and a lust for unbridled power motivates does it not.

These people are evil, they are motivated by the brothers 1-10 who implemented genocide in Cambodia in the not too long gone past.

If anyone is actually gullible enough to swallow the bait these evil brothers lay out they are indeed going to be in for a rude awakening if these creatures ever gain national power.

Are you saying the Red Shirts have ties to the former Khmer Rouge of Cambodia? If so, can you substantiate your claim?

Maybe not direct ties, but many of the red fugitives are living it up in the casino there...all under the protection of the Cambo gov...

That's quite a logical stretch there, wouldn't you say? From staying in a Casino over the border............. to being tied to the genocidal Khmer Rouge?