No Mass Protests But Thai Student Activism Still Alive

[webfact]

No mass protests but student activism still alive

By PRAVIT ROJANAPHRUK,

NAYA JAIKAWANG

THE NATION ON SUNDAY

The "golden age" of massive student activists taking to the streets to fight for democracy is long gone and will not likely return at any foreseeable future, said student leader Anuthee Dejthevaporn, who has just finished as secretary-general of the Students Federation of Thailand (SFT).

"The society has changed. The age of middle-class [stu-dents] fighting for peoples' rights is gone, because they have gained their [political and economic] benefits," said Anuthee, adding that those middle-class students still fighting for democracy and other causes were now few and far between.

Although Anuthee predict-ed that more student activism would be seen because Thai poli-tics was in a crisis, he said it would be "impossible" to match the numbers that joined the student movement two decades ago. Today, Anuthee reckons there were no more than 100 active members of the SFT, which is pro-red.

He added, however that there were students who support the yellow-shirt People's Alliance for Democracy (PAD) or the current government but their numbers were also small.

Acknowledging that a num-ber of youth were now into cyber activism, Anuthee, who recently graduated from Thammasat University in political science, added however that this could not compare to face-to-face bonding, which fostered a sense of camaraderie.

He said witch-hunting online against people perceived as being anti-monarchist as a worrying development.

"Although some criticise with reasons, in some other instances, death threats are made."

In a related development, Chaturon Chaisaeng, former deputy prime minister under Thaksin Shinawatra, said young people should engage more in online activism to oppose the government.

Chaturon was speaking at a symposium on whether stu-dent activism has disappeared or not, at the 111 Foundation yesterday.

"I believe cyberspace and things like Facebook are another form of activism. Students need not come out onto the street but can surf cyberspace in order to exchange information and facts," Chaturon said.

He claimed the current government was one of the most dictatorial regimes of the past two to three decades as a whole net-work existed to perpetuate its longevity.

Chaturon said the current regime has sent letters to university administrators telling them to curb anti-government student activism.

"Red Sunday" group leader Sombat Boon-ngam-anong said students were now making a move, and that arresting students - as the authorities recently did in Chiang Rai province, with five students - would come at a high cost because students merely insist on their basic right to freedom of speech.

"To forbid humans to think or say something is like forcing them to stop breathing," Sombat said.

A group of students who recently took part in a failed protest against Prime Minister Abhisit Vejjajiva at Chulalongkorn University - failed because their protest placards were confiscated - predicts that more attempts to make such protests will spread from now on, however.

-- The Nation 2010-09-05

[otherstuff1957]

I may be wrong, but I wouldn't be surprised if the lack of student activism isn't related to this headline:

As long as the Red movement is seen as a puppet of Thaksin, I think that most students are not going to be interesting in supporting it.

[ballpoint]

I may be wrong, but I wouldn't be surprised if the lack of student activism isn't related to this headline:

http://www.thaivisa....-pattaya-rally/

As long as the Red movement is seen as a puppet of Thaksin, I think that most students are not going to be interesting in supporting it.

Precisely. why would any hard working student support an organisation led by a man who mysteriously acquired a PhD using an English language thesis and verbal exam, despite being deficient in the use of English, and who's own son was caught cheating in exams at Ramkamhaeng University?

[edwardandtubs]

Thai students are shockingly shallow, caring only for things like K-Pop and comic books. In 1976 they stood up for democracy and were slaughtered at Thammasat University. Now they're just encouraged to be mindless consumers, devoid of opinions or ideas about their own society.

[rkidlad]

Thai students are shockingly shallow, caring only for things like K-Pop and comic books. In 1976 they stood up for democracy and were slaughtered at Thammasat University. Now they're just encouraged to be mindless consumers, devoid of opinions or ideas about their own society.

To be fair, I've met Oxford grads who like computer games, eating and sleeping. Some have even admitted to sleeping with men to purchase a Luis Vuitton bag and Iphone.

For some of those who are going to university in Thailand; Oh! The irony.

Edited September 5, 2010 by rkidlad

[rubl]

From the OP:

In a related development, Chaturon Chaisaeng, former deputy prime minister under Thaksin Shinawatra, said young people should engage more in online activism to oppose the government.

Chaturon was speaking at a symposium on whether stu-dent activism has disappeared or not, at the 111 Foundation yesterday.

"I believe cyberspace and things like Facebook are another form of activism. Students need not come out onto the street but can surf cyberspace in order to exchange information and facts," Chaturon said.

I think that lots of people find it too easy to say the most ridiculous things in cyberspace because they feel faceless. Some people terrorize others because they don't like them, some just like to gossip or spread rumors. A major %% of traffic is humans 3rd favorite activity (eating/drinking being one/two I think).

The part I liked of the OP is "Students need not come out onto the street but can surf cyberspace in order to exchange information and facts". What he forgets to mention is how to ensure that 'facts' have a reasonable reliability. wishful thinking is allowed, pure and plain lying not. The grey area is big enough to ensure healthy discussions.

Edited September 5, 2010 by rubl

[Englander]

Theyve probably seen that no matter how much they protest things wont change, and that the Thai army are quite happy to kill citizens as they please

Its hardly worth dying to keep the status quo.

.

[Englander]

As long as the Red movement is seen as a puppet of Thaksin, I think that most students are not going to be interesting in supporting it.

Are you insinuating that supporters of the red shirt movement are too ignorant to send their kids to university?

He was very popular you know or does that not matter to your argument?

Edited September 5, 2010 by Englander

[rubl]

Theyve probably seen that no matter how much they protest things wont change, and that the Thai army are quite happy to kill citizens as they please

Its hardly worth dying to keep the status quo.

.

I doubt the Thai army likes to kill citizens, they like to return fire when shot at is probably more correct.

[Englander]

Theyve probably seen that no matter how much they protest things wont change, and that the Thai army are quite happy to kill citizens as they please

Its hardly worth dying to keep the status quo.

.

I doubt the Thai army likes to kill citizens, they like to return fire when shot at is probably more correct.

I can confirm 100% seeing a guy flying a flag who was of no threat shot in the head, his head melted im sure many on here saw it, there was the nurse and those in the temple these are the higher profile MURDERS.

Throughout history the state and army have murdered its own citizens, here are a few examples.

14 October 1973 Students killed in govt. protests

6th October 1976 Thamasat University killed

Black May 1992

The Krue Sa mosque massacre in April 2004

Takbai in Southern Thailand on October 25, 2004

War on Drugs (police)

Finally recently the Army tied up and sent the Burmese boat people back out to sea to die.

But like you say the reds are bad, so maybe all those others were bad and the army were just shooting back, and defending the freedoms of Thailand.

[whybother]

I can confirm 100% seeing a guy flying a flag who was of no threat shot in the head, his head melted im sure many on here saw it, there was the nurse and those in the temple these are the higher profile MURDERS.

<snip>

Can you 100% confirm who fired the shot that killed the guy with the flag?

[Buchholz]

when shot at is probably more correct.

I can confirm 100% seeing a guy flying a flag who was of no threat shot in the head, his head melted im sure many on here saw it, there was the nurse and those in the temple these are the higher profile MURDERS.

Thank you for solving these killings when no one else could.

[rubl]

Theyve probably seen that no matter how much they protest things wont change, and that the Thai army are quite happy to kill citizens as they please

Its hardly worth dying to keep the status quo.

.

I doubt the Thai army likes to kill citizens, they like to return fire when shot at is probably more correct.

I can confirm 100% seeing a guy flying a flag who was of no threat shot in the head, his head melted im sure many on here saw it, there was the nurse and those in the temple these are the higher profile MURDERS.

Throughout history the state and army have murdered its own citizens, here are a few examples.

14 October 1973 Students killed in govt. protests

6th October 1976 Thamasat University killed

Black May 1992

The Krue Sa mosque massacre in April 2004

Takbai in Southern Thailand on October 25, 2004

War on Drugs (police)

Finally recently the Army tied up and sent the Burmese boat people back out to sea to die.

But like you say the reds are bad, so maybe all those others were bad and the army were just shooting back, and defending the freedoms of Thailand.

What I'm saying is I do not think the army likes to shoot their own citizens. There may arise occasions they have no choice, sometimes they may be ordered to do so. In the March - May 2010 case they didn't have much choice especially when on the 10th of April unknowns started shooting almost indiscriminately at protesters and soldiers and killed a colonel with staff with a well-aimed grenade attack.

In the cases you mention the army was given explicit orders to fire. In 1976 it was the late K. Samak who 'fired up' the army.

I never said in any of the quoted posts that the reds are bad.

Lastly, if you indeed saw what you claim, report to police, DSI, or a known international organization and deposit your statement. Anonymity guaranteed.

Edited September 5, 2010 by rubl

[Englander]

I can confirm 100% seeing a guy flying a flag who was of no threat shot in the head, his head melted im sure many on here saw it, there was the nurse and those in the temple these are the higher profile MURDERS.

<snip>

Can you 100% confirm who fired the shot that killed the guy with the flag?

No but i believe ballistic experts claimed the type of bullet that would have done that to his head was that used by the military. But are you insinuating the reds shoot their own supporters, as lets be honest that claim is ridiculous.

Come on there was more then enough footage of soldiers shooting unarmed people for you not to be so silly and accept they shot at unarmed people.

There is a history of the state and army killing unarmed innocent people why is it this time that dumb foreigners think the protesters would be shooting on their own people.

But come on let me know i love a good conspiracy theory.

Edited September 5, 2010 by Englander

[Englander]

when shot at is probably more correct.

I can confirm 100% seeing a guy flying a flag who was of no threat shot in the head, his head melted im sure many on here saw it, there was the nurse and those in the temple these are the higher profile MURDERS.

Thank you for solving these killings when no one else could.

Well as no one has been held accountable for 1 death in any of the above cases, id be surprised if all of a sudden video footage appeared showing the culprit openly saying that he was aiming for the unarmed one with the flag as he was a lanky streak of p7ss, along with a confession dragged out of him by one of Girly Berry would be enough to even suspect him, as you know that em it might have been one of those pesky red shirted terrorists.

But one reason they would wish to protest is they might get shot by either the army/govt or one of their fellow protesters to make the army/govt look bad, hardly worth it im sure youd agree.

[rubl]

I can confirm 100% seeing a guy flying a flag who was of no threat shot in the head, his head melted im sure many on here saw it, there was the nurse and those in the temple these are the higher profile MURDERS.

<snip>

Can you 100% confirm who fired the shot that killed the guy with the flag?

No but i believe ballistic experts claimed the only type of bullet that would have done that to his head was that used by the military. But are you insinuating the reds shoot their own supporters, as lets be honest that claim is ridiculous.

Come on there was more then enough footage of soldiers shooting unarmed people for you not to be so silly and accept they shot at unarmed people.

There is a history of the state and army killing unarmed innocent people why is it this time that dumb foreigners think the protesters would be shooting on their own people.

But come on let me know i love a good conspiracy theory.

Red's weren't shooting other reds unless by accident. There was a group of 'black shirts' causing mayhem on both sides on the 10th of April. The 50+ grenade attacks haven't all been explain, but caused innocent deaths, maybe including red-shirt supporters who knows?

As for 'unarmed innocents', anyone in the 'red encampment' was told many times to leave. Some were stopped by red guards, some had ID's taken from them. Innocent may be in the sense of 'too believing' after months of UDD hate-speech on the stage and PTV.

For any of the video clips and other material I have heard and read conflicting, contradictionary arguments. Some going on in the red zone hasn't been filmed, open-minded reds dislike CCTV camera's it seems. Some foreigners as well maybe.

[Englander]

Red's weren't shooting other reds unless by accident. There was a group of 'black shirts' causing mayhem on both sides on the 10th of April.

OK they werent shot by fellow red shirts but they were shot at by people allegedly sponsored by red shirt backers but put in black shirts, now i know.

Anyway im off to the gym enough Thaivisa for one day.

[rubl]

Red's weren't shooting other reds unless by accident. There was a group of 'black shirts' causing mayhem on both sides on the 10th of April.

OK they werent shot by fellow red shirts but they were shot at by people allegedly sponsored by red shirt backers but put in black shirts, now i know.

Anyway im off to the gym enough Thaivisa for one day.

It may help your mental processes mens sana in corpore sano

[Englander]

Red's weren't shooting other reds unless by accident. There was a group of 'black shirts' causing mayhem on both sides on the 10th of April.

OK they werent shot by fellow red shirts but they were shot at by people allegedly sponsored by red shirt backers but put in black shirts, now i know.

Anyway im off to the gym enough Thaivisa for one day.

It may help your mental processes mens sana in corpore sano

Thats the plan and it does work, but im not the one coming out with twisted logic conspiracy theories.

Strange how if youre not a conspiracy theorist on TV in relation to these incidents youre accused of not thinking clearly, oh well!

[Buchholz]

when shot at is probably more correct.

I can confirm 100% seeing a guy flying a flag who was of no threat shot in the head, his head melted im sure many on here saw it, there was the nurse and those in the temple these are the higher profile MURDERS.

Thank you for solving these killings when no one else could.

Well as no one has been held accountable

Thank you for admitting that you don't know anything about who is responsible for these killings.

Edited September 5, 2010 by Buchholz

[philw]

when shot at is probably more correct.

I can confirm 100% seeing a guy flying a flag who was of no threat shot in the head, his head melted im sure many on here saw it, there was the nurse and those in the temple these are the higher profile MURDERS.

Thank you for solving these killings when no one else could.

Sarcasm is just too easy and just shows the weakness of your attitude.

Maybe he is telling the truth.

The army shot the nurses.

If there was any evidence to the contrary it would have been made pubic by now.

The silence from authority is deafening.

[Englander]

when shot at is probably more correct.

I can confirm 100% seeing a guy flying a flag who was of no threat shot in the head, his head melted im sure many on here saw it, there was the nurse and those in the temple these are the higher profile MURDERS.

Thank you for solving these killings when no one else could.

Well as no one has been held accountable

Thank you for admitting that you don't know anything about who is responsible for these killings.

There were videos from France24 at the time showing soldiers shooting into this crowd and then he along with many others die, there was plenty of exceptionally strong circumstantial evidence at the time .... but my lack of courtroom and non corrupt police to gather evidence has made it difficult for me to prove outright.

http://www.youtube.c...feature=related

Make of this what you may.

Now please instead of trying to be clever can you confirm you believe it may not have been the army, and that you believe it may have been a 3rd element as like i say i love a conspiracy theory, please put your head above the parapet as i have.

Edited September 5, 2010 by Englander

[Siripon]

when shot at is probably more correct.

I can confirm 100% seeing a guy flying a flag who was of no threat shot in the head, his head melted im sure many on here saw it, there was the nurse and those in the temple these are the higher profile MURDERS.

Thank you for solving these killings when no one else could.

Sarcasm is just too easy and just shows the weakness of your attitude.

Maybe he is telling the truth.

The army shot the nurses.

If there was any evidence to the contrary it would have been made pubic by now.

The silence from authority is deafening.

You say that without a shred of evidence.

For weeks on end Jatuporn,etc urged the red protesters on with inflammatory rhetoric,'We will never surrender, we are prepared to die here for democracy.'

Did they never think the constant incitements to violence and vitriol would have no effect on their less educated audience?

When the leaders cowardly surrendered to the police after a loud noise behind the stage, did they not think their naive followers might have actually believed their words of hatred and refuse to go home meekly as Nattawut ordered them to?

The government repeatedly told them to go home,they even arranged free buses for them.

Those who died were victims of both the red shirts and the army, but the guilt for using naive people as pawns lies firmly with the red shirts.

When will they say they are sorry for using innocent people?

Thick faced and thick skinned, they don't know the meaning of the word,'conscience'.

[rubl]

OK they werent shot by fellow red shirts but they were shot at by people allegedly sponsored by red shirt backers but put in black shirts, now i know.

Anyway im off to the gym enough Thaivisa for one day.

It may help your mental processes mens sana in corpore sano

Thats the plan and it does work, but im not the one coming out with twisted logic conspiracy theories.

Strange how if youre not a conspiracy theorist on TV in relation to these incidents youre accused of not thinking clearly, oh well!

Have to read the whole bloody lot again, but think you first mentioned 'conspiracy theories'. As for accused of not thinking clearly, where did you read that ? Maybe the 'twisted' is apt.

[Buchholz]

when shot at is probably more correct.

I can confirm 100% seeing a guy flying a flag who was of no threat shot in the head, his head melted im sure many on here saw it, there was the nurse and those in the temple these are the higher profile MURDERS.

Thank you for solving these killings when no one else could.

Maybe he is telling the truth.

Thank you for adding more quibbling that results in admitting that you don't know anything about who is responsible for these killings.

[Buchholz]

Well as no one has been held accountable

Thank you for admitting that you don't know anything about who is responsible for these killings.

Make of this what you may.

The best part of the youtube video is the description provided of the video:

no description available

Now please instead of trying to be clever can you confirm you believe it may not have been the army, and that you believe it may have been a 3rd element as like i say i love a conspiracy theory, please put your head above the parapet as i have.

Why would I choose to look silly by trying to speculate on killings that are inconclusive as to who the perpetrators are. You know, you don't have to guess at something simply because the answer is unknown.

I do note, however, your backtracking from your earlier definitive answer as to who is responsible and that is a bit more commendable.

Edited September 5, 2010 by Buchholz

[rubl]

There were videos from France24 at the time showing soldiers shooting into this crowd and then he along with many others die, there was plenty of exceptionally strong circumstantial evidence at the time .... but my lack of courtroom and non corrupt police to gather evidence has made it difficult for me to prove outright.

http://www.youtube.c...feature=related

Make of this what you may.

Now please instead of trying to be clever can you confirm you believe it may not have been the army, and that you believe it may have been a 3rd element as like i say i love a conspiracy theory, please put your head above the parapet as i have.

Had a look at some of the clips again. Mostly 10th of April I think. They are put up by someone who wants to emphasize the 'army shooting / reds die-ing'. Missing are the clips with the 'black shirts', 'soldiers shot' and 'colonel & staf murdered in grenade attack'.

Also nothing on the fact that the clearing of the area went 'rather' peacefully till the point unknowns started shooting both red-shirts and soldiers.

[whybother]

Can you 100% confirm who fired the shot that killed the guy with the flag?

No but i believe ballistic experts claimed the type of bullet that would have done that to his head was that used by the military. But are you insinuating the reds shoot their own supporters, as lets be honest that claim is ridiculous.

Come on there was more then enough footage of soldiers shooting unarmed people for you not to be so silly and accept they shot at unarmed people.

There is a history of the state and army killing unarmed innocent people why is it this time that dumb foreigners think the protesters would be shooting on their own people.

But come on let me know i love a good conspiracy theory.

There is enough footage of red shirts firing guns (particularly on that night) that leaves this open to speculation. Even in THAT particular video there is a suspicious guy walking out from the building with something in his hands and people watching him (including the flag guy).

Just because the army had guns and a guy gets shot does not automatically mean the army shot him. You don't even know where he is in relation to the army, so you can only be speculating about how he died.

[whybother]

There were videos from France24 at the time showing soldiers shooting into this crowd and then he along with many others die, there was plenty of exceptionally strong circumstantial evidence at the time .... but my lack of courtroom and non corrupt police to gather evidence has made it difficult for me to prove outright.

http://www.youtube.c...feature=related

Make of this what you may.

Now please instead of trying to be clever can you confirm you believe it may not have been the army, and that you believe it may have been a 3rd element as like i say i love a conspiracy theory, please put your head above the parapet as i have.

Red shirts were shooting at the army, and the army were shooting back. Red shirt protesters died because of it. Whether the shot came from the army or the red shirts is still unknown.

[Englander]

I do note, however, your backtracking from your earlier definitive answer as to who is responsible and that is a bit more commendable.

No backtracking there is was enough circumstantial evidence for me to believe that he was shot by the army, and that the army shot and killed unarmed protesters.

Or are you trying to tell me i need a video following the bullet as basically this is the only evidence one could have to be absolutely certain.